**Civil War Watch**

Originally posted by Mainer
A second Civil War would have to be based somewhat on sociapolitical geography. Physlcal grouping would be important to any sort of mass movements. If you look at the electoral college mapping for the election there exists a segmentation to support the above:

2004 Division

I disagree. To confine the movement to geographical consideration is really to misunderstand the objectives, this isn't a geopolitical issue. This is about industrialism and its grip on our political institutions. The american civil war was clearly North vs South, however should such another event take place, it will not be so easily defined by any lines on a map. I would go so far as to speculate there would be more similarites to the Bolshevik movements in Czarist Russia than the American Civil War. Until Diebold and others involved in the election results are raked over the coals and exposed, I wouldn't trust any demographic representations of the sides to be taken in such an event.
As to a civil war being some kind of a purely liberal agenda, you may suprised at the various factions that would take an interest in such an event. What if it came out in the media that the elections were indeed rigged, can you imagine the outrage if the soverignty of a nation had been compromised by a select group of ultra rich? We are not the ruling class, yet we are the majority, and that alone deifes these grandoise principles that we have touted for so long. The Indutrial revolution was more of a revolution than you may be aware of. While most of tend to think of that as a broad and general term to describe the modernization of the western world, it was in fact, a true revolution. The soverignty of the american people was taken by the capitalists, and our system of government has failed to act in the interest of the people of this nation every since. The last I heard, the people hold a constitutional right to dissolve or abolish the governement when it fails to represent the interests of the people it governs. I am not advocating revolution, but I am saying that Uncle Sam is no longer a mandate of the people, and the people have a right, nay an obligation to change that. It doesn't matter if you are a conservative or a liberal, if you are rich, or if you are gay, what matters is the control of our political establishments are no longer answerable to the people, and have not been since the early 1900's.

Originally posted by lucid visionary


Thank You Indigo Child for constructing "the protocols of the learned elders of sion" into layman's text. I've read plenty of your posts and I think you do outstanding work!

Thank you for your compliments Lucid visionary, and welcome to ATS. I hope you enjoy yourself here.

[edit on 6-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by twitchy Until Diebold and others involved in the election results are raked over the coals and exposed, I wouldn't trust any demographic representations of the sides to be taken in such an event........... We are not the ruling class, yet we are the majority, and that alone deifes these grandoise principles that we have touted for so long. ...................The soverignty of the american people was taken by the capitalists, and our system of government has failed to act in the interest of the people of this nation every since. The last I heard, the people hold a constitutional right to dissolve or abolish the governement when it fails to represent the interests of the people it governs. I am not advocating revolution, but I am saying that Uncle Sam is no longer a mandate of the people, and the people have a right, nay an obligation to change that. It doesn't matter if you are a conservative or a liberal, if you are rich, or if you are gay, what matters is the control of our political establishments are no longer answerable to the people, and have not been since the early 1900's.

Excellent!!! I agree with you on this. And so, again, the question needs to be answered....What do we do about this? Twitchy let's make this a hypothetical situation so the SS doesn't need to waste their time. Suppose you were to encourage a revolution. Where would you begin? And how would you go about organizing those who have similar feelings in our hypothetical situation? Since they are spread across the country, how does everyone get connected in order to make sure they are all working toward the same goal and within whatever guidelines are set?

Also...I think we should all just add the disclaimer "I am not advocating civil war" to our signatures so we don't have to keep saying it.

Edit: typos

[edit on 11/6/04 by HarmoniusOne]

how bout enlightening and encouraging debate about these topics? something that has been completly forgoten in mass media and the cultural prowess of our society. lets just all do our best to get these kinds of facts out on the table.



to hell with britany spears weeding!

[edit on 6-11-2004 by sturod84]

Originally posted by sturod84
how bout enlightening and encouraging debate about these topics? something that has been completly forgoten in mass media and the cultural prowess of our society. lets just all do our best to get these kinds of facts out on the table.

Which topics would you like to debate exactly? I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Would you mind clarifying?

the united states of corperation and its influence on political landscape. but as ive stated most folk are more concered with triffle afairs, wats your take on the subject harmonious one?

[edit on 6-11-2004 by sturod84]

And so it begins, here is the first sign of mass civil dissent

Outrage in Ohio: Angry residents storm State House in response to massive voter suppression and corruption

November 3 - Toledo, Ohio Hundreds of angry Ohio residents marched through the streets of Columbus�Ohio�s Capital�this evening and stormed the Ohio State House, defying orders and arrest threats from Ohio State Troopers. "O-H-I-O ! suppressed democracy has got to go,"they chanted. After troopers pushed and scuffled with people, nearly a hundred people took over the steps and entrance to the State�s giant white column capital building and refused repeated orders to disperse or face arrest. People prepared for arrests, ready to face jail�writing lawyers phone numbers on their arms, signing jail support lists and discussing non-cooperation and active resistance (linking arms, but not fighting back).

yeah i recall seeing some protests in san fransico they always protest and as usual the media blows it off like nothing happened at all. mabye we need too speak a little louder lol

Who is going to fight this so called civil war? Is it going to be the whole USA against the government? another North against South? lol I don't think so.

Civil War? I don't think so. I think everyone should just calm down and wait to see what happens. There have been other times in our nation's history when those with the most money bought the vote, and they were brought down through the legal process. Resorting to violence or inciting it will only delay and undermine the pursuit of justice.

Revolution has been the battle cry since the 60s. Did it happen? Yes, but not by might of arms. Nixon and his henchmen were not overthrown by armed violence, were they? No, their own actions in subverting the Republic brought them to their doom. Let the criminals laugh for now. Enough light has been shed on the stealing of this election that it is spreading far beyond the conspiracy boards and even into the mainstream media. The calls for civil war are counterproductive (not to mention premature).

Am I the only one who suspects that the calls for civil war did not start with the liberal left, but by others who have an eye to discrediting and suppressing the people even further? If it is true, you who scream for blood are playing right into their hands. You're setting us all up for Patriot Act II.

[edit on 7-11-2004 by Hecate100]

ha! how naive, your gonna crash into a brick wall by the time justice is upheld. i see no spotlight, media is as arrogent as ever if not worse. the only justice we will see is when they run out of bombs and are defensless because of the revunue the world has denied them, thats the sting that will befowl you all bacause of your lack of concern and acceptance for these wicked policies.

[edit on 7-11-2004 by sturod84]

Originally posted by sturod84
yeah i recall seeing some protests in san fransico they always protest and as usual the media blows it off like nothing happened at all. mabye we need too speak a little louder lol

The media alone has the power to stir up people on a national scale.

If they choose to report the unrest and divide, they create more unrest and a larger divide.

If they choose not to report it, less people know about it and less people are worked up by it.

No uprising is successful without a powerful media behind it.

So should we be thanking the media for helping to eliminate hysteria and violence or should we be cursing them for stifling the dissent?

I get the picture that most of you imagine civil war as people running around with guns killing there fellow countrymen. In all honesty, I can't see that happening.

I also get the picture that a large percentage of Americans are not happy the the amount of corporate influence in your countries politics.

One scenario could be a civil war fought without suffering one casualty through violence. A civil war fought in the market place. It would simply be a matter examining the offending corporations and compiling a list of the products that they sell. Then all you would have to do is boycott their products. Corporations will realise that it is in fact the consumer that controls the marketplace, not them.

So if a company wants to sell/manufacture stuff, no worries. The moment that company tries to get any influence in the political arena, they go on the list which means they suffer. Lets face it, money makes the world go round and if you cut off their supply, they'd be stuffed. What are they going to do? They can't force you to buy their products. Now I'm not saying you should stop spending money altogether, just be more conscientious about who your hard earned dollars go to .

If 60 million Americans got together, they would be a financial force indeed. At the very least, you would knock these corporate giants down a peg or two. At the best you would remove corporate influence altogether so politicans could start thinking of ways to help the community rather than trying to figure out how they can make more profits for the shareholders.

Like I said, this is only a scenario.

So should we be thanking the media for helping to eliminate hysteria and violence or should we be cursing them for stifling the dissent?

who said anything about violence and hysteria? since when do people get hurt from manifestations of truth.

oh yeah i forgot, under the tyranical supresive hammer known as US govt lol

WILL YOU PLEASE TELL ME "WHAT" KIND OF CIVIL WAR YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ? WHO WILL BE FIGHTING WHO?

Originally posted by lucidvisions
Seekerof, do you live in a "red" state? Im not meaning that in a slanderous way,and im not trying to "flame"..but im just wondering because most of my friends that live in other states are having the same thought as you on this.And im wondering if this is just the ideas of us who are living in the "blue" states?

This is interesting. The fact that people are now referring to "red" and "blue" states is a good sign of an approaching civil war.

Originally posted by MagicaRose
WILL YOU PLEASE TELL ME "WHAT" KIND OF CIVIL WAR YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ? WHO WILL BE FIGHTING WHO?

The Kerryists vs. the Bushidos?

If there is going to be a civil war, then it should be a non-violent constitutional one, and then what results, will be a violent civil war that doesn't divide the people, but a civil war that unites the people against the oppressors.

I think all of you Americans should unite against police brutality, corruption, assaults on civilian rights, because this is the root of the problems, and it's something you all share. Do not let yourself be coaxed into thinking of your people as sects or red/blue. You are united, and united against one enemy, and only one, and you should know who that is.

What do you want? You want the right to pursue happiness, you want equal rights, you want the right to ownership of your home and your self, you want the right to defend yourself. These are our natural civilian rights. We all want this, and there is only one entity that is obstructing this, and again, you know who they are.

You know who your enemy is, and he's not red, or blue, or Christian or Muslim, or male, or female - he's your oppressor. Unite, and stand tall now, so we don't have to fall tomorrow.

[edit on 7-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

1. Buy a bike, moped or hybrid vehicle and do not support big oil. Get rid of the SUV, get a 4 in the small SUV instead of the 6. HOw many of us take that BMW X5 off-road?

2. Shop at your local produce stand and butcher. Support the little guy. Find a local supermarket that is privately owned. (every town has one, you just have to look)

3. Stop going to Wal-Mart, Target, K-mart, Best Buy, etc...

4. Get rid of cable (until the Sopranos comes back) and read a book.

5. Spend more time with your kids.

6. Have at least one handgun if the # does hit the fan.

7. Boycott Strabucks and McDonalds.

Does anyone get what I am saying? We cannot take to the streets with pitchforks and muskets like the 1700's and throw Congress out on its ass. But as a consumer, you can make a difference. This is where we have to start.

Then slowly flood the local politcals system with like minded people. No agenda or party, jsut ideas on how to make our local lives bette. In20 years, with the right work, you could have influence in national government.
Remember, nothing can be changed overnight,,,,,