**Civil War Watch**

I'm not busy hating the military; leave it to the Pentagon to do that.

But, what I'm saying is, with the rigged election putting Bush in office for another four years, and with the likelihood of "real" terrorist acts coming at us due to the untrammeled imperialism of the current Administration, it is both plain and expected that the NEXT version of the "Patriot Act" will invoke sanctions against ALL DISSENT.

I wouldn't want to see ATS members subject to prosecution for speaking their minds about results, effects and outcomes that this regime is prospering around the world.

So, maybe we need to keep protests and dissent threads in RATS, where they can't be hacked into by the Feds in their verve and zeal to find people to prosecute for thought crimes.

You know?

[edit on 15-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

Mr Nice, good story, but rather different to what has happend in LA -

1. It's night time
2. It's in the middle of the road
3. There is an ongoing protest against the US and the armoured vehicles happen to appear right in their direction
4. In seconds, police officers appear and contain the crowds

It's rather clear what this means. I guess we will see what happens at a bigger protest, and if this is any indication, I think we can expect "tanks"

You know?

When that happens Emily, there is going to be a lot of topics springing up all over ATS decrying it, not just this topic. ATS is by nature an alternative discussion site, and here we discuss what is really going on in this world, if such plans come into action, ATS will be shut down, with or without this topic.

I don't know about you, but I am not going to let some tyrant control my right to speak and express my opinions. As soon as there is civil war in the US, you can expect the entire web to either shut down or be taken over by the government.

As I said to the last person who was scared this topic might lead to ATS closure, there are dozens of sites out there, that are louder and actually planning civil wars, and they are not shut down, so why should ATS be?

There are hundreds of members on this site that allege the government is covering up aliens, or is planning a staged-attack, and we are circulating this to thousands of people who visit this site. Believe me, if we posed any form of threat, we would have been shut down long ago.



[edit on 15-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
the NEXT version of the "Patriot Act" will invoke sanctions against ALL DISSENT.

So, maybe we need to keep protests and dissent threads in RATS, where they can't be hacked into by the Feds in their verve and zeal to find people to prosecute for thought crimes.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

Re: keeping protests and dissent threads in RATS. I'm with Indigo on this one - plus, hiding our lights under the RATS bushel won't keep it from the Feds, just remove it from *public* view. Not the goal, I don't think.

RE: next version of the Patriot Act. It's the last nail in the Corporate Continental Merger. Check this out:

www.abovetopsecret.com...




.

1. It's night time
2. It's in the middle of the road
3. There is an ongoing protest against the US and the armoured vehicles happen to appear right in their direction
4. In seconds, police officers appear and contain the crowds

1 - It was night when we were lost...many convoys move at night to avoid civilian traffic or in our case it was just a long drive. I don't think we would have gotten lost if it were daylight. Our unit was 1/43 ADA (look it up, it's a PATRIOT unit).
2 - Yes.. so...the APC's were in the correct lanes of traffic also...not running over the curb or pointing weapons at anyone. Exacly like you would expect of somone driving those things somewhere.
3 - Bad timing....Marines don't have time to mess with small-time protests..you might have noticed they are rather busy in Iraq right now. They probably noticed the crowd and thought someone might have directions.
4 - Gee..police in the middle of L.A. around a large public gathering..now who would have thunk that eh? And they wanted people out of the road / not blocking traffic? How dare they!

Get over it...the Marines were lost....and got caught up in something they really didn't want to.

They probably noticed the crowd and thought someone might have directions.

I think that says enough Geez, you guys must be really stupid or something. Anyway, whatever floats your boat, mate.

And exactly where would you have asked for directions? You been to downtown L.A.? It's not like there's many places to park / gas stations to pull into.

It's amazing you can't put yourself in their place. It�s not like they had their GPS systems set up for this stuff (no map of L.A. for just a short trip).

They ARE just like us (Americans) so they probably didn't think that it would be a big deal to ask for some directions.

It probably freaked them out a bit to have people start treating them like the enemy. Of course, you liberals can't imagine anything innocent or honest when dealing with the military (which is a shame because the military treats honor and integrity as the highest ideals they can follow).

But everything�s got to be a conspiracy so the evil government wanted to show some force in your mind. Of course, that implies this protest was important enough for the powers that be to feel threatened about. And to send tanks would imply the government took this protest VERY seriously.

LOL � What egos these guys have to believe that. Believe it or not no one cares if they want to hold their little get together. It�s their right and nothing special at all. It�s also the Marine�s right to use the roads and not be accosted. It�s also the cops job to ask the protestors to get out of the road so folks can move and MOVE them if they resist.

Originally posted by MrNice
And exactly where would you have asked for directions? You been to downtown L.A.? It's not like there's many places to park / gas stations to pull into.

Yeah, you are absolutely right - "gee, err, let's ask the nice protestors telling us to get out of Iraq, for directions" I don't know what's more alarming, such bizarre stupidity, or it being premeditated.

It�s also the Marine�s right to use the roads and not be accosted. It�s also the cops job to ask the protestors to get out of the road so folks can move and MOVE them if they resist.

I don't know what kind of country you live in mate, but I've never in my entire life seen a tank on a mainroad in a city. What are marines and tanks doing on LA streets. You usually find the military either at war or in a dictatorship, not in a metropolis. This only further adds fuel to the contention that America is a police state.

You say that you usually see the military in wars and dictatorships... I really don't see your point. There's a difference between a tank being transported over American soil and a tank being used to murder civilians, just as there's a difference between possessing a knife and stabbing somebody.

[edit on 11/15/2004 by Odd]

I believe the Marines were lost. I was in the Marines. You can't concieve of how badly a Marine can # something up if he puts his mind to it. And an LAV is a perfectly highway-capable vehicle. I've seen them on highways many times. They showed up at a very minor anti-war rally and the protestors, like idiots, swamped the LAVs instead of just letting them go on their way.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
I believe the Marines were lost.

I like the first cover story - The tanks were for a Remembrance Day event at that location and they came early to set up. ...The event was scheduled for the 10th, not the 11th. There are statements and witnesses to verify this story too and it's my personal favorite.



.

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by taibunsuu
I believe the Marines were lost.

I like the first cover story - The tanks were for a Remembrance Day event at that location and they came early to set up. ...The event was scheduled for the 10th, not the 11th. There are statements and witnesses to verify this story too and it's my personal favorite.



.

Hmmm. However, I was in charge or part of many static displays while in the Marines, and typically we go there early to set up.

Static display is a community relations event in which Marines show off their combat gear including individual weapons, choppers, tanks, all while decked out like they're going to take down Beijing.

Originally posted by taibunsuu

Static display is a community relations event in which Marines show off their combat gear including individual weapons, choppers, tanks, all while decked out like they're going to take down Beijing.

True - both stories are perfectly plausible, but they are contradictory so you can only pick one.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Yeah, we did. We stopped to ask them (the protestors) directions, but they weren't very nice

I am not sure, are you saying you believe this, or are you laughing out into tears, like me?

I'm saying there is a growing number of people who seem ready to start throwing SH** at the troops again. (while saying they are 'for the troops')

I'm saying there is a growing number of people who seem ready to start throwing SH** at the troops again. (while saying they are 'for the troops')

Can you blame the "growing number of people" with everything that is happening, and especially something as transparent as "we were asking the protesters for directions" It truly astonishes me on how gullible and sheepish the American populace is, everything that happens is covered up with an often ludicrous explanation, and not only do they buy it everytime, they cannot see the sum of all events - I won�t even go into weather balloons now.

It also does not surprise me, most supporting the the "tanks were lost" idea, are ex-marines - support for the home boys, yeah? The more people get tied into a support or bias for a group, the lesser their own individual judgement becomes for the actions of the group. Much like, the recent Abu-Gharib prison abuse and the subsequent support and defence for their actions. I know very well what kind of conditioning the army and police cadets receive, and how they are systematically desensitised, dehumanised and dumbed down. I've read about it and I've seen it. No offence to the ex-army men here, but you guys don't really have a good reputation. Taking your word for the �homeboys� would be like taking the word of ex-nazis to support the actions of the Nazi's.

There are many who would rather condemn the government, than condemn those who are carrying out their orders. It takes two to tango, and I hold them as accountable, as I do the government.

As I said, what kind of country are you living in, where marines and tanks roam around cities - that sounds like a police state to me. I am not saying this because of this one odd incident(which is alarming by itself) it is an actual fact that high concentrations of armed forces are present in civilian areas. It is a fact that they conduct exercises in the middle of roads, sometimes with helicopters. It is also a fact they burn down buildings with men, women and children in them -WACO. It is also a fact that they mobilize in their thousands and attack protestors and dissenters.

Who are you kidding, that America is not a police state? Police, marines and a further thousand UN �peacekeeping� forces on their way are running amok in the cities. It�s not even this bad in some dictatorships.

Anyway, let's leave the theories of "lost and found" and "psychological intimidation" aside for now and look at it for what happened, objectively -

There were protesters, and two tank and a swarm of police officers appeared, and the protest was disrupted. Full stop.

Now, if and when a bigger protest occurs, and this is any indication, we can expect the worse.

Btw, to the ex-marines, what are your views on the �civil war� �Bush� �War on Iraq� �terrorism� �patriot act� "NWO" and �concentration camps� I think this could be interesting...

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Anonymity is the greatest weapon anyone can weld against and for an objective; these forums are visible to anyone who desires to view them hence making anyone�s amenity of little value as the servers files can be subpoenaed for evidence.

With the patriot act II being disseminated and introduced into law in small manageable bites, we are slowly losing our sense of self worth in a centrally united society as the middle class becomes absorbed into either two categories (that being rich & poor) we as a united people are divided more each day then ever in the history of the United States (even greater then the past historical accounting of the civil war) by simple slight of hand tricks and by rewarding perceived "compliance" with policies.

If you have ever studied past history (not just the United States) and applied it using common sense and refine it with logistics & strategic applications, you will see many threaded roads into a central desire for linear control of an organism that is inherently organic in nature.

It means that every human on this planet is being given "resistive" elements for which one of two things happen, they either "push through" (making their threat level advance to another category) or they relent to the resistive factors and follow the path of least resistance to a predetermined point of "feigned" self control..

We as a nation of "supposed" united people are of a desire to be more individual then ever before, so much so that prior communicative skills are beginning to atrophy into disuse (though will always remain available) and because of this, the ground for further distrust will always become stronger and "unfortunately" rightfully so as time and again the powers that be have proven themselves of abuse of the trust given to them and laws are now written to tailor toward singular individuals for the entire national population when it suites their agenda.

Civil war was written as being fought of "civility" of human rights and at the time it was the right to be declared free in a free country and applied toward slavery as a general relationship, but tell me, would this "civil war" that is being spoken of here in this forum even apply?

as you are aware, we are no longer the home of the free, but more of the home of the "dutiful" and compliant, so where is the "true" meaning of free today?....

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by taibunsuu

Static display is a community relations event in which Marines show off their combat gear including individual weapons, choppers, tanks, all while decked out like they're going to take down Beijing.

True - both stories are perfectly plausible, but they are contradictory so you can only pick one.

Well, since the Marines didn't tell people to disperse or make any effort like that, and the demonstraters were the ones to rush to them, I pick that it was a mistake.

Trust me, you're not going to try and move out a bunch of demonstraters with two LAVs and if the Marines had been ordered to move them out they wouldn't have driven around a few times and then split.

Trust me, you're not going to try and move out a bunch of demonstraters with two LAVs and if the Marines had been ordered to move them out they wouldn't have driven around a few times and then split.

If I point a gun at you for daring to disagree with me, but don't shoot, and just walk off. What message does that send to you?

There is something called "psychological warfare" as an ex-marine, you should know that.

[edit on 19-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Since 51% of the people voted for BUSH, maybe that 51% should send thier sons to fight in Iraq, it's only .

This goverment is wrong for putting the entire world in Jepordy of a nuclear holocaust in which BUSH and his Puppet Master are leading us into, it's like them gangs wars literaly the Goverment wants more turf to do thier dirty work....

It's like an abusive Husband beating on his wife and we the children can't go to noone because the father is a policeman and noones gonna belive!

Mr. Abusive P.O couldn't do this he's here to serve and protect the people....

Who police's our Goverment?

Answer: We the people and our voices must be herd!!!!!!!

Do you not Know that the Blue and the Red are the same as the colors of the American Revolution? It's like history repeating itself...

The American Revolution happen because the founding fathers wanted to separate from England and at wars end we had a new free nation.(U.S.A)

Now this same goverment wants to separate again it's only obvious and this Goverment wants to make new laws!!!!

One would say the Red Coats will be coming again and if it does it will start in coincident:
(NEW ENGLAND).

Call it speculations but it seems too clear, oen your eyes and listen...Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hush it......I think I hear something
" Oh no it's PAUL REVERE " lets head for the hills!!!!!!








[edit on 19-11-2004 by 2ndSEED]

Interesting ways in which people are being drafted into the military!

www.kron.com...

Man With Pot Given Choice: Jail or Military

SALINAS, Calif. (AP) -- A Salinas man will have to choose between going to jail or joining the military as his punishment for possession of marijuana.

A judge surprised both the prosecution and defense yesterday when he told Brian Barr that he could avoid a jail term by enlisting in the military.

The 24-year-old Barr was charged with marijuana possession after shooting a would-be robber who had entered his apartment with two others.

So there you have it, criminals are being drafted into security forces for the people. That is one way of forming a police force against the people.







[edit on 19-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]