Sorry to make two posts so soon back to back, but I just saw this...

Originally posted by Kidfinger
If we cant get Bush impeached, then I say we have a civil war to oust his a55 out of the office.

Do you really think that you are entitled to use violence to enforce your will upon the country, even if it works against the majority vote AND wholly defies the Constitution?

As far as a plan to fill the void that would be left, we could always go back to the constitution in its original form and begin to actually follow it and let everyone have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of land ownership. Thats right, the constitution used to say pursuit of land ownership instead of pursuit of happyness. Look it up.

You mean the one that says whoever wins the electoral vote becomes president for the next four years, regardless of whether or not you, personally, voted for him?

The fact is, America is divided right down the middle. The last time it was this divided was about 140 years ago. Now go take a look at what happened then and tell me a civil war is not possible. Not only is it possible, but its highly probable.

That is not the fact. The fact is that a few people think it is okay to kill other people to get their way.


Get your heads out of your hypocritical asses and look what you're saying. You want to declare war on the United States of America!

The Republicans won. I don't like it any more than you do, but Kerry is, in my singular, subjective opinion, no better.

But I'm not ready to start shooting just because Badnarik didn't win. You all need to calm down.

This has been your reality check. And when I give you one of those, you know for damn sure that you're out there.

I am just a mirror in which you see your own reality. The scenorio I outline maybe dramatic, but they are not melodramatic, for that implies that reality is being exaggerated, but it is not, and to see that it is not, you need your own reality check.

If you refuse to look in the mirror, then just wait and watch, whether there is going to a civil war or not, is going to be known in the coming months. Here is where we are going to track it

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Harmonious one, the void left, will initially be filled by a crude from of community government. That is not for us to decide, the freedom fighers, are only there to fight for their freedom and rights; their rights to their privacy, their pursuit of happiness and land, and security, and once they get that, then the rest will follow too.

Yes, I am well aware, everything happening here, is being monitored, and I am well aware that if either of us step over the mark, we are at great risk. Do you want to live under fear? How can we grow positively when the environment we live in is negative? I do not respond well to absolute power and control. I believe in my spiritual rights, the right of free will, the right of happiness, the rights of truth and the right of self. I will never compromise these rights for all the wealth or all the power in the world, then I certainly would not compromise them for fear.

I just saw someone say Kerry in his speech, said something about civil unrest developing in US, and the possibility of a civil war, in another thread. Can someone validate this?
[edit on 4-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Indigo...I was just reminding people of the possibility that they are being monitored here. Basically because, from what I have seen, at least some of the people who have the motivation, intelligence and wherewithall to pull this off hang out here. If ATS gets shut down, or those who have the ability to start / lead a revolution are taken out of the picture for posting their views....we may be shooting ourselves in the foot. Perhaps some of this should be taken private.

No. I don't want to live in fear. My family and friends have had a contingency plan for this for 4 years now. We have all the supplies we need for our safety and protection in a safe place and are ready to go at a moments notice.

I can verify what Kerry said....I saw the speach.

Originally posted by CMCLA2003
and if America isn�t a democracy anymore than you'll see a civil war,

We are not a democracy, and we never were! We are a republic, or more correctly, we are a democratic republic. Although we vote on the little stuff, the big stuff is covered in the constitution, the voice and mother of the republic.

Someone once said (can�t remember who right now) that a democracy is 3 wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner. The bill of rights is there to protect the sheep from democracy.

Now what is really pissing me off is that the extreme right has been saying the same damn thing you lefties are saying now. It is only when the rights you want are chipped away that you begin to speak of a revolution. What the hell is that about? For years strong men with big guns have been saying the same thing, trying to call America to arms over the rights you leftie commies have been stealing the last hundred years.

But no, when it�s the constitutional rights you value, well then its time for war. Truth is, the modern republicans are just a hair closer to what this country was meant to be in the first place.

They take away the 2nd in all but spirit, and none of you on the left care. They commit ARMED ROBBERY against us (yes, the police will evict you from your house so the IRS can sell it, and they don�t leave their guns in the trunk when they do it) if we don�t give them our money, and you lefties just want more. You socialists don�t care when your hero Bill and his thug Reno KILL AMERICAN BABBIES and shoot mothers in the face while they are armed with nothing but their infants, but you talk about civil war when Bush kills Iraqis. What gives?


You know what is great? All of you lefties have been pushing these illogical and crime-causing gun laws on us, and now you want a revolution! What will you fight with, the bolt action deer riffles of "sporting use" that you have allowed us to keep? Now you see what we have been saying all along. The second is the most important, because without it you cant do crap to defend your other rights!!!!!!!!!! You reap what you sow, commies!!!!!!!

[edit on 4-11-2004 by cavscout]

Originally posted by cavscout
You know what is great? All of you lefties have been pushing these illogical and crime-causing gun laws on us,
[edit on 4-11-2004 by cavscout]

I have to rebute your opinion there, I dont know too many "leftys that want a civil war" Now what i do know is yes we do believe in gun control. What do you need assault weapons for? Your right our founding fathers did say we have the right to bear arms, but that was in what 1787? I dont think the founders were thinking about guns that can unload 50 bullets in a blink of a eye, I think they were thinking about guns that you shoot once, take a few mins to reload, and fire again. Your right we democrats do support abortion because its the right of a woman to choose. Doesn't mean we are morally for it, but by law we are. We like to keep what they say church and state separate unlike some republicans that come to mind. Gun control is important, and you republicans have so many problems. And if you want to talk about civil liberites in danger then you shouldnt support the partiort act the way its design. But you know thats it with the republicans folks they sure do enjoy to act without thinking especially Bush. Bush wanted to attack Iraq, sure there were no WMDS, no link with Al-Qaeda, no plan to win the peace, but it fits the republicans quite well.

My question is....Why does it have to be Republicans vs Democrats? Libralists vs Republicans? Democrats vs. Liberalists? Why oh why can't it just be Americans doing whats best for America?

Question your motives. Is this a matter of "My d*ck is bigger than your d*ck" or are you seriously wanting to make changes you believe in for a country and principals you believe in? If so, than what is the best way to accomplish your goals? Please don't say run for city council or write letters to your congressmen. If these things worked then people wouldn't be frustrated enough to talk about civil war. Is there a real solution to the many issues that face this country?

Originally posted by CMCLA2003
I have to rebute your opinion there, I dont know too many "leftys that want a civil war"

Every thing I said was directed at the lefties on this topic, you know "civil war watch." Did you get the wrong topic, or did you forget where you were?

Now what i do know is yes we do believe in gun control. What do you need assault weapons for?

Again, on topic it would be logical to desire assault weapons for a civil war.

Your right our founding fathers did say we have the right to bear arms, but that was in what 1787?

OK, this is getting off the topic of civil war watch, but I can never resist.
The reason the founders refused to sign without the 2nd has not changed. It was not for hunting or "sporting" use. It was to overthrow any tyrannical government that may someday threaten the American way, and that need will never go away, no matter how complacent you get.

I dont think the founders were thinking about guns that can unload 50 bullets in a blink of a eye, I think they were thinking about guns that you shoot once, take a few mins to reload, and fire again.

Actually, they were thinking of any weapon that the government soldiers had. Read your history book; our victory was a fluke. We just happened to have superior domestic made weapons then the Brits, and this GREATLY helped us to secure our freedom. Many historians believe this was actually the main contributing factor to our victory. The framers never wanted us to be outgunned by any government. It is government fear of the populous that keeps them in line, and the founders knew this, and said as much. The 2nd applies to any weapon of military significance, anything the state can use against you. Period. To dispute this is to deny factual historical documents, and is a slap in the face of those men who showed up to fight a superior enemy on that fateful April day. In fact, a more legitimate argument could be made that muskets and deer riffles are not protected, because they are useless to the militia.

Your right we democrats do support abortion because its the right of a woman to choose. Doesn't mean we are morally for it, but by law we are.

I didn�t say anything about abortion. You sure you�re in the right topic?

We like to keep what they say church and state separate unlike some republicans that come to mind.

Again didn�t say a word about it. BTW, agreed.

Gun control is important, and you republicans have so many problems.

Gun control is important, and I�m not a republican. New here? I am a Libertarian, and a rabid one at that. I think republicans are almost as bad as you lefty socialists. They are just right wing socialists.

And if you want to talk about civil liberites in danger then you shouldnt support the partiort act the way its design.

Again, agreed. Patriot act scares the crap out me, one of the worst things socialist party B has given us yet. You assume much.

And what the hell does anything you said have to do with a lefty sponsored civil war, which was the topic to begin with?

Originally posted by HarmoniusOne
My question is....Why does it have to be Republicans vs Democrats? Libralists vs Republicans? Democrats vs. Liberalists? Why oh why can't it just be Americans doing whats best for America?

That IS the problem; people lose sight of the forest for the trees. This is, and always was, about the people. The NWO/Shadow government/Illumanti, call it what you may, has always been here, controlling us, manipulating us, corrupting us and deceiving us. Yet, people never look at the root cause, they only look for what is on the surface. Some people are just too ashamed to associate themselves with a conspiracy theory, and will not call the spade a spade.

This civil war is not for something as trivial as elections, this civil war is to restore the rights of the people that the state continues to strip away. I do not advocate a civil war, but I also don't see how the people are not going to get one, with all that is happening. The difference is, do they want to start it themselves, or let the state start it for them.

Please don't say run for city council or write letters to your congressmen. If these things worked then people wouldn't be frustrated enough to talk about civil war. Is there a real solution to the many issues that face this country?

I think it is cute when they say this, it's like when a naive little child says "mom, why are they just fighting, why don't they just play with each other" People, if you not aware, certain rich families, secret socities and bloodlines have a monopoly over the US, a common man has never been president, and never will, if people do not overthrow this corrupt nepotistic system, by taking matters into their own hands, this will never change.

This is why a civil war becomes necessary for some, again I am not advocating it, but how else are the people going to reclaim their civil rights - over a cup of tea at the white house? I don't think so.

Half of America does not even support Bush's policies, they feel alienated and left out from their own country, yet still have to pay the taxes to support his policies; then what happend to their voice, and their dignity? In such a corrupt government system where more than half of the population is so criminally alienated, of course a revolution needs to take place.

However, this is not in the hands of Bush, or any other leader, it's in the hands of some shadow government virtually nobody knows about. Where are you going to go looking for them to make them hear your voice; in the shadows? Take it in your own hands, and do what you think is prudent and right. I wonder just how many of those asking us to write letters, have done so themselves, and actually got a worthy response.

[edit on 5-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Don't you understand that it is going to be the fruits of this call to civil war that is going to bring the hammer down on all of our heads?

You know what's going to happen? Some nut who frequents this board & also Rense & the more hardcore NWO sites is going to snap & do something really really stupid. After he/she does the stupid destructive deed, they're going to take apart his/her hard drive & look at his/her bookshelf and note that this person is a devotee of ATS, Rense, Icke, conspiracy stuff in general. This will give the govt & media ammunition to crack down on all these sites & books as "inciting terrorism."

This happened to Goths in the late 90s when a series of unrelated gruesome crimes culminating with Columbine led the govt/media to believe that gothic culture incited violence. The result is that goths or even people who dressed in black got harassed in school, suspended, etc. Gore & violence was censored in movies to the extent that even the horror magazine Fangoria wasn't showing gore in its book anymore. This is all a walk to the park compared to what would happen if a conspiracy "enthusiast" did some really stupid McVeigh/Hinckleyesque thing.

You want the most plausible scenario? Unfortunately, this is it. Everybody's gotta CALM DOWN!!! Pleez. Thank-you.

Originally posted by Cassie Clay
Don't you understand that it is going to be the fruits of this call to civil war that is going to bring the hammer down on all of our heads?

You know what's going to happen? Some nut who frequents this board & also Rense & the more hardcore NWO sites is going to snap & do something really really stupid. After he/she does the stupid destructive deed, they're going to take apart his/her hard drive & look at his/her bookshelf and note that this person is a devotee of ATS, Rense, Icke, conspiracy stuff in general.

I think you are being somewhat paranoid here. You will find there are many forums online that are screaming about potential civil wars or even planning ones, in comparison all we are doing are speculating and discussing it as a hypothetical. There is a lot of sensitive discussion that takes place on ATS every day, that could lead to a crackdown, but it hasn't. Alex jone's site is still running, so is Ikes and so is Greers. So, chill, nothing is going to happen.

A point I would to like make to participating members: Can you please not state any intentions for a civil war or call for one. Rather discuss the original mandate of the topic; the potential of a civil war happening in the foreseeable future. This is just for peace of mind of some.

[edit on 5-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by NightStalker
Can you honestly say you could live by this philosophy? A concept that goes back to the basic premise behind the Constitution.

Can you honestly get past the hate and blind prejudices that you have?

Comments??

Yes....and yes. If we cant, is there even a point? We would end up right back in the same place we already are.

Cavscout is right, the 2nd calls out that the Un-oganized militia shall have available to them weapons comparable to that of the Organized Militia. So that if called upon they can stand in for Goverment forces to protect and defend the citizens and infrastructure of the United States. And so much that ammunition shall be available through the Goverment supply line.

It does not say that the "un-organized" militia shall be restricted to odd or archaic forms of weapon, purely based on Goverment mandates that say anything outside of this is un-necessary, when the very reason the 2nd was written was to DEFEND against such a Goverment that seeks to impeach upon our rights. Yet we have allowed the very Goverment to ammend the 2nd to give specific exclusion to something that the fore-fathers knew we would need one day.

Sounds like we did get the shaft already, as the Goverment has systematically taken away our rights to defend ourselves from the Goverment.

And yes Indigo-Child I am aware that it is "THEM' that have plotted against us, so that we may hate each other, so that "THEY" will have more control over us. That is modern day politics for you. Tyranny by Oppression.

There are four possibilities

1.) We will fall further and further into the abyss of coorperate comodity and our power will whither away. Nothing "conspiric" happens.

2.) Bush is legit. America will become a great country and our power will grow. We will be peacefull. Obesity stop happening. Our food will stop getting genetically modified. America will become great again (before income tax)

3.) NWO take over

4.) NWO take over w/ a twist of john titor added in



EDIT:

5.) Meteor

[edit on 5-11-2004 by aukaiman55]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Do you know how politicans work? It's not changed much over the course of history, as it works everytime, it's perfect:

1. Divide and rule
2. Incite revolution
3. Propaganda

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Here, Here! Three simple rules to live by, brought to you by our loving caretakers... The Illuminated one's.

Thank You Indigo Child for constructing "the protocols of the learned elders of sion" into layman's text. I've read plenty of your posts and I think you do outstanding work!

YOu are all out of your minds. Peace out and good night....

The fact is, America is divided right down the middle. The last time it was this divided was about 140 years ago. Now go take a look at what happened then and tell me a civil war is not possible. Not only is it possible, but its highly probable.

That is not the fact.

Wrong. America is divided into two sides.

The first side votes for democrats and republicans which tear about our country and take away our liberty.

The second side doesn't vote period because they are too lazy to actualy vote third party and change the country.


Once the mistakes of the first side have an effect on the lives of the second side, then the second side will realize that it's either act now or be screwed. Half of the second side will still be too lazy/not care. The other half will fight (civil war).

After the worldwide nuclear party, the people who fought in the civil war will be in remote hidden outposts away from any nuclear target (like cities). The rebellion will have allready had a good few months or years of surviving without civilization, so they will have a headstart in a nuclear torn world.


Thats how it's gonna roll down- basically.

Civil War! Civil War! I predict a civil war against corporate companies of America like Clear Channel then maybe next the radical christian churches. F#####g brain washers!

Originally posted by aukaiman55
The second side doesn't vote period because they are too lazy to actualy vote third party and change the country.

Not everyone who didn't vote is lazy.