Hugo Chavez: The War On Demcracy

Originally posted by Exitt

Originally posted by VonDinkinDunken

There are no pictures and there are no links.

Well then, IT NEVER HAPPENED !



wishing you a wonderful day, rainbows & little pink hamsters

I bet there are an awful lot of Venezuelans who wish they could honestly say the same thing.

Originally posted by VonDinkinDunken
I bet there are an awful lot of Venezuelans who wish they could honestly say the same thing.

Originally posted by Exitt

Originally posted by VonDinkinDunken
According to an in-law who lives across from the military academy where Chavez is being taken, there are tanks out in the street and soliders everywhere. Apparently, there are massive anti-Chavez protests taking place around the capital and soldiers are even shooting tear-gas into crowds of people.

Here is proof that your story is 100% completely fabricated. A LIE.

Not only are there no protests around the city but there is literally no room for protests. Hundreds of thousands of Venezuelan people are on the streets in Caracas, to attend a funeral that is.

aerial view of the funeral cortege of late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on its way to the Military Academy

aerial view of the funeral cortege of late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on its way to the Military Academy

Police make a line to hold back the crowd as the funeral cortege of late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez arrives at the Military Academy

Originally posted by Exitt

Originally posted by VonDinkinDunken
According to an in-law who lives across from the military academy where Chavez is being taken, there are tanks out in the street and soliders everywhere. Apparently, there are massive anti-Chavez protests taking place around the capital and soldiers are even shooting tear-gas into crowds of people.

Here is proof that your story is 100% completely fabricated. A lie.

Not only are there no protests around the city but there is literally no room for protests. Hundreds of thousands of Venezuelan people are on the streets in Caracas, to attend a funeral that is.

aerial view of the funeral cortege of late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on its way to the Military Academy

aerial view of the funeral cortege of late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on its way to the Military Academy

Police make a line to hold back the crowd as the funeral cortege of late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez arrives at the Military Academy

edit on 7-3-2013 by Exitt because: ..

Omigosh, I am so perplexed by your lack-o-reason. Do you have any idea just how big Caracas is? Sorry, but these aerial pictures do not show even a fraction of this huge metropolis.

You should google the route of the coffin laid over map of Caracas and then keep zooming out until you see just how big this city is and then we can discuss whether or not there is enough room for protestors.

Also, keep in mind, the tanks, tear gas and soldiers would not be intended for pro-Chavez crowds. Why would they be?

You are making your determinations based on speculation. I am making mine based on a first-hand account.

Believe me or not. If what I am saying is true, it will eventually make its way to the news one way or the other.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by 33055

 

Lies complete lies the OAS and the Carter center have both said the elections were free and legitimate.

The CARTER Center?

Really?

The CARTER Center?

ROFLMFAOPMS!

I can't imagine why birds of a feather would support one another, by telling lie to compound lies.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Libertarianism was born on the Left.

reply to post by VonDinkinDunken
You seem to be grasping at straws. What the hell has a Gorgian demonstration in 1978 got to do with Venezuela?

Media of Venezuela

In 2010 declassified US State Department documents showed over $4m of funding (in the previous 3 years) to Venezuelan journalists and private media opposed to the Bolivarian Revolution, part of a larger $40m funding for opposition groups.[6]

and

In recent years, the audience share of private terrestrial broadcasters has fallen from around 80% in 2000 to around 60% in 2010, with the bulk of the lost audience going to cable and satellite broadcasters, which increased audience share from around 17% to around 33% over the same period. State television's low share, of around 2%, increased to 5%, although the government also makes regular use of cadenas (mandatory interruptions on all channels to show government broadcasts).[7]

Originally posted by VonDinkinDunken

Originally posted by Exitt

Originally posted by VonDinkinDunken

There are no pictures and there are no links.

Well then, IT NEVER HAPPENED !



wishing you a wonderful day, rainbows & little pink hamsters

I bet there are an awful lot of Venezuelans who wish they could honestly say the same thing.

Wow another flip flop from you

Experience makes him much more qualified than those who merely speculate on what is or isn't socialism.

All you have supplied as in this post is your speculation.

Tell me did you even bother to look at either of the documentaries posted in this thread?

Originally posted by cornucopia
i love Chavez, rest in peace brother, you did well...

Yes .. he did well when he took over the media and took away freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Yep .. 'very well done Chavez'. He did well when the took over the oil profits from the country and billions of $$ went missing at the same time his personal wealth skyrocketed. Yep .. 'very well done' chavez'.

Seriously .. if Bush43 had tried to do this, would all the Chavez cheerleaders be cheering Bush?
I highly doubt it.

reply to post by FlyersFan

He did well when the took over the oil profits from the country and billions of $$ went missing at the same time his personal wealth skyrocketed. Yep .. 'very well done' chavez'.

This keeps being stated but despite many asking for the source it has not been provided. Please do that.

Originally posted by colin42
This keeps being stated but despite many asking for the source it has not been provided. Please do that.

ATS Thread - Where did Chavez supposedly get his $2 Billlion in Personal Wealth
There ya go ... ongoing discussion with links to articles discussing his landholdings, his families landholdings, bank accounts, etc etc

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by rock427

 

What about the OAS then they to said the elections were fair. At least back up your claims with facts and not personal opinion.
The elections were fair you may not like that but the people who voted did.

Do me a favor and read up about those organizations

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 6-3-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

From your very own wikilink:

Venezuelan election

Some individuals have disputed the Center’s endorsement of the electoral process in the Venezuelan recall referendum of 2004.[42] Fox News' Doug Schoen told Michael Barone at U.S. News and World Report, "Our internal sourcing tells us that there was fraud in the Venezuelan central commission. There are widespread reports of irregularities and evidence of fraud, many of them ably recorded by Mary Anastasia O'Grady in the Wall Street Journal last week. Carter is untroubled by any of this, and declares that Chavez won 'fair and square.'"[43][44] The Carter Center looked into the allegations and released a paper and statistical analysis reaffirming their original conclusions.[45]

This part pertains SPECIFICALLY to the Carter Center call on the Venezuelan elections.

Perhaps the Carter Center isn't as "impartial" as you think at first blush, OR as "impartial" as your political bias dictates it MUST be...

As for the OAS, well, THEY are politicians and bureaucrats as well. It should come as no surprise that they are standing up for one of their own, against his own people. One thing politicians and bureaucrats do well is play the game - it confers an advantage on them, garnered from those they support. They wash Chavez's back (or any other dictator - witness the way the US government backs their OWN pet dictators) and said dictator washes theirs.

You support me, I'll support you, and to hell with the underlings that live under the both of us and have to put up with us.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by colin42
This keeps being stated but despite many asking for the source it has not been provided. Please do that.

ATS Thread - Where did Chavez supposedly get his $2 Billlion in Personal Wealth
There ya go ... ongoing discussion with links to articles discussing his landholdings, his families landholdings, bank accounts, etc etc

All I can see is speculation and as we have seen there is a lot of hostile press, misinformation and propaganda

Tell me where are the facts that show this speculation to be true? What banks hold this money? Why did those banks agree to manage those funds that would be obviously gained by illegal means? Why wait until after his death to take action?

Originally posted by Exitt

Not only that, but Chavez did not want to play with that organization at all. So when Transparency Int. gets the middle finger by Venezuela then it automatically ranks Venezuela as - first place, not transparent at all

This is just getting ridiculous.

So a right wing dictatorship has to play with everyone, but the left wing dictatorships get a pass to only play with their friends? OK. Got it. I guess I just didn't grasp the ground rules for this game.

Silly me - I thought "transparency" was, well, transparent, and applied across the board!

Originally posted by colin42

But I would like to ask. If the revolutionary war in America was covered by today’s press what would the headlines read?

TERRORISTIC RIGHT WING NUT JOB FASCIST INSURGENTS SPARK WAR AGAINST INNOCENT AND PEACE LOVING OBAMISTAS OF THE PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE UNITED SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA

Oops - wrong century, wrong war. Instead:

TERRORISTIC RIGHT WING NUT JOB FASCIST INSURGENTS SPARK WAR AGAINST THE INNOCENT PEACE LOVING SUBJECTS OF HIS MAJESTY KING GEORGE III

Originally posted by colin42
Tell me where are the facts that show this speculation to be true?

It's not speculation. The billions from the oil profits are missing. Arafat and his family suddenly got wealthy after he took charge of the country. They have massive realestate and bank holdings ...

What banks hold this money?

Here in the USA, our leaders have an open policy, showing their tax refunds and stating out front what their assets are. That doesn't happen with South American dictators. It's a peck and hunt to find where they have hidden their stolen money. The answer is that he has vast land holdings and vast oil holdings. He and all his family members also live palacially .. living the big life while talking about not doing so.

Why did those banks agree to manage those funds that would be obviously gained by illegal means?

Swiss bank accounts dont' ask questions as to where funds came from. Arafat put the billions he stole in them. Other people the same. Considering the power that Chavez AND HIS FAMILY have down in that part of the world,

Why wait until after his death to take action?

1 - No action is being taken. He made it so no one can take action against him.
2 - This isn't new information. It's been out since at least 2007.

Chavez was Latin America's Failed Robin Hood

To guarantee subsidized food pricing, he nationalized food companies. He took over private media enterprises that challenged his policies. He trumped up murder conspiracy charges against a dozen of the country’s leading bank owners to control capital flows. He fired PDVSA managers and engineers who stood up against his politicization of a once highly efficient energy giant. He created a militia of 125,000 who reported directly to him and helped to implement many of his social programs, thus bypassing democratically elected state and municipal leaders. He showered the military with money, contracts and power, then inserted Cuban spies to help prevent a coup.

While the money flowed, many of Mr. Chavez’s abuses of power were forgiven by the underclass, which relished the sight of struggling upper and middle classes. In return, they re-elected him three times.

Mr. Chavez’s Robin Hood policies delivered political success and facilitated a power grab unequalled in Latin America since the dictatorships of the 1970s and 1980s. More important, he squandered an economic gift of almost $700-billion in additional oil revenue that his 14 years in power received versus the preceding 14 years (1985-1999)

Why is Chavez Moving Venezuelas Gold Holdings Home?
Answer - to screw Americans and everyone else ...

When Venezuela’s strongman Hugo Chavez announced plans to move virtually all of his nation’s overseas gold stock—211 tons of gleaming bars stored in vaults in New York, London, Zurich and elsewhere—back to South America, investors were stunned. Why make one of the largest physical transfers of gold bullion since the end of World War II

Originally posted by VonDinkinDunken

Originally posted by ArtooDetoo

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by mekhanics

 

Wow...you people really have no idea of what you talk about... It is the same with all the liberals and leftists claiming Che Guevara was a good man who fought for the people...

You are so clueless it is not even funny.

GOOD RIDDANCE, that man was a cancer to not only this world but to Venezuelans...

And you know who Che is because you've met him ?

How about you for once cut the "i know everything, you dont know anything" attitude that you seem to use in every post you write ? 'Seriously, it doesent make you an expert on socialism or Hugo Chavez just because you were born and raised on Cuba.

Read a book, deny ignorance ffs. I mean, reading your posts is like listening to Glenn Beck talking about socialism.

edit on 7-3-2013 by ArtooDetoo because: (no reason given)

Experience makes him much more qualified than those who merely speculate on what is or isn't socialism.

When you experience something you come to know all of its nuances. Certainly, someone who experiences life under a socialist dictator would know what a socialist dictator looks like despite pretences.

It is Ayn Rand's experience that makes her books so wildly popular, is it not? Is she not considered an authoritative source on communism by many people since she grew up under a communist regime?

What @ElectricUniverse is writing has nothing to do with her experience, every post can be boiled down to what you usually hear on the Fox News. Same points same conclusions. Experience you say, how about I used to work with people from former socialist republic of Yugoslavia, and every single one of them said that they lived a wonderfull life before the ethnic tensions and war.
Now what ?
What im trying to say is, socialism does not equal totalitarianism and dictatorship. What the banner in ElectricUniverse avatar really should say is "Revolt against DICTATORSHIP" unless your'e ignorant to believe that socialism equals dictatorship.

reply to post by FlyersFan

It's not speculation. The billions from the oil profits are missing. Arafat and his family suddenly got wealthy after he took charge of the country. They have massive realestate and bank holdings ...

Why are you telling me about Arafat?

It's a peck and hunt to find where they have hidden their stolen money.

And the results of that investigation are where?

Swiss bank accounts dont' ask questions as to where funds came from. Arafat put the billions he stole in them. Other people the same. Considering the power that Chavez AND HIS FAMILY have down in that part of the world,

So you tell me about Arafat anf that others do the same and from that conclude Chevez did the same. No proof then

1 - No action is being taken. He made it so no one can take action against him.

Rubbish. That money could be demanded and would be demanded to be returned

2 - This isn't new information. It's been out since at least 2007.

And all I am asking for is the proof

Would I be surprised if he did have his hands in the till, no but given the amount of disinformation that comes from the west about this I want proof and not some propagandist prattle

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Well if Ron Paul had got into power, Im sure he would have been more for opening up trade with Venezuela and Cuba than trying to overthrow their government to fit an Americas agenda. I think that's why people on the left like Ron Paul. Because he is a pragmatist and not an imperialist. He doesn't see every country as a possible threat but a trading opportunity
. Ron Paul obviously doesn't support the socialist policies of Chavez, but he probably doesn't agree with the regimes in many countries. Doesn't mean he wants to around the world changing those regimes.

You see, there is a problem with your line of thought. I know westerners love to think and believe everything they are told as long as some form of socialism or even communism is involved. But tell you what. I was born, and raised in the Marxist-Leninist dictatorship that is Cuba and Chavez has proclaimed that Venezuelans should follow that "dictatorship". If any of you used any common sense you would see that Chavez is not "working for the people".

Under socialist/communist dictatorships there is real propaganda that starts from day one, we are tought that "los imperialistas de los Estados Unidos want to destroy everything", when the fact of the matter is that the socialist/marxist/communist/fascist dictatorships are the ones not only seeking to destroy any ideaology that conflicts with the leftwing beliefs. Most of all there is a constant hatred being indoctrinated in Cuban children. I was part of that indoctrination, and I know where it leads.

Every time some person proclaims a DICTATOR such as Chavez "was a great man, and an example to us all" all you are doing is to show how naive and ignorant you really are.

I have heard Venezuelans in power, and the Chavistas are even claiming that the U.S. caused the cancer to Chavez, and they see as a possible path to war with the U.S.

You see, leftwing dictatorships use false flags attacks, lies and deception to acquire what they want.

Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez has died in hospital at the age of 58 after developing a severe respiratory infection during his battle with cancer.

Supporters of the president, who had been fighting the disease for two years, claimed he had been infected by ‘imperialist enemies’.

The country's vice president Nicolas Maduro, surrounded by other government officials, made the announcement during a national television broadcast last night.
...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

This is ANOTHER prime example of "not leaving a crisis to waste", and to use it to further the leftwing Marxist-Leninist-fascist dictatorship these people want to keep afloat.

I know that the military in Cuba, Venezuela, and some others have been working together for when the fight against "imperialism" occurs, and they don't believe it that it will happen in decades in the future, but in a few years if not less.

These people have backing from China, Russia, and former Russian states which have been controlled by the leftovers of the KGB for this exact purpose.

You think they will treat you well if you side with them?... You are GRINGOS, and GRINGOS are not to be trusted, you are just an "usefyl idiot" and nothing more, one that they will get rid of as soon as possible.

The same way that Vietnam was taken over, or Tibet, that will occur in the U.S.

We have got an administration wanting to ban our seceond amendment right to own and bear arms, he wants to stiffle free speech, and control every aspect of people's lives so he can be the big cajuna, the great dictator.

That's what all of you who see chavez as a good man have for you to wait at the end, and worse. So keep swimming in your ignorance pool, and keep drinking the cool-aid you love so much meanwhile the truth has been staring at you for years but you were either too lazy, or too naive, or simply didn't care about the truth and instead you got hypnotized by the lies and deceipt that such people and dictators always use...

HOw about you do some REAL research as to what Chavez has been doing to Venevuela?...

Originally posted by colin42
Why are you telling me about Arafat?

I was giving you an example of another person who did the same.
It can be done. It is done. It's not uncommon for a person to swoop in
and claim to be 'of the people' and yet all he does is rob the people.

Rubbish. That money could be demanded and would be demanded to be returned

Rubbish right back atchya. Seriously .. do you even have a clue as to how Venezuela is run? The stranglehold of power Chavez and his family have on that country? The fact that there is no freedom of speech and there is no freedom of the press. Unlike in the USA where politicians have to disclose their personal holdings and finances, Chavez has no such openness to deal with.

And all I am asking for is the proof

Already gave it. Read the links provided. Pay attention to the FORBES link.
Chavez played fast and loose with money, investments, and land and oil holdings. etc

but given the amount of disinformation that comes from the west about this I want proof and not some propagandist prattle

And yet you believe the pro-Chavez propagandist prattle. Good for you ...

Originally posted by yamammasamonkey
He was a piece of crap and I'm glad he's dead.
He has stripped off a cool 2 billion into his own personal coffers and as the article linked below states,,,

He leaves behind a country of state-owned steel mills that do not produce steel, state-owned electric utilities that cannot keep the lights on, and state-owned supermarkets where you may be able to find chicken, coffee or toilet paper, but rarely all three at the same time.

www.ft.com...

You know, I've got to wonder how much of that 2 billion he got to take with him. The reason I wonder is because I hear the taxes in hell are pretty steep. I wonder what Pitchfork Dude could do with his cut of the taxes on 2 billion? Maybe buy a palace in Zimbabwe, which is the closest to hell we can hope to get here.

Oops - did I say that out loud? I meant "Zimbabwe is one of the most successful experiments in Marxism to ever be conducted, and should be applauded, unlike the failed experiment in Marxism conducted in Venezuela by the inept Chavez".

Yeah, THAT'S what I meant! Stupid auto-correct!