Hugo Chavez: The War On Demcracy

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posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 07:39 PM
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I think Hugo was a great man... if you call amassing a sum of over $2 billion dollars while there are millions of poor in your country great. For a site that prides itself in freedom and liberty, I have been seeing a lot of support for tyrannical leaders as of late. It saddens me that a website that used to be very anti-big government has somehow changed into a pro-big government outlet. It seems that it's more anti-American than pro-freedom. Socialism is the very antithesis of freedom. It limits a person to achieving what they truly want in life. A testament to this fact would be the huge amount of Venezuelans currently living abroad who absolutely despised Chavez and his system. I am not saying that the current financial situation in the U.S. is freedom either, since the support of the government for large corporations and vise versa is fascism, not true capitalism. Also, I realize that there are hard working families out there who simply can't afford certain thing, and I believe some type of assistance should be given. However, I don't think that people who have become successful should be punished for being successful. The truly greedy people are the ones who sit around all day doing absolutely nothing and expecting something in return for absolutely no reason. Remember people, most of these "free" programs and services are nothing more than the bread and circuses that the poet Juvenal warned us about. They are nothing but a distraction to disguise the power grab that the government is involved in.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Ben Franklin




posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 




and yet the IMF and the World Bank are part of the same Intl cabal that Obama is supported by.


and yet Chavez told the IMF and the World Bank to eff off and you dance on his grave. You're so afraid of Agenda 21 that you volunteer for NGO's that 'work against it' (by the way I read that as insanity), so afraid of the NWO that you bought every bit of propaganda and serve it (hint oil cartels would be part of that).


I have not danced on his grave by any means. In fact you can see I already pointed out his successor is likely to be a Union leader who is on the same page as him so what's the diff? Difference between Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, and Obama? Some but the CFR mechanism is still at play regardless.
There is always another head on the hydra to replace the ones that are cut off.
edit on 6-3-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 07:53 PM
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He was a piece of crap and I'm glad he's dead.
He has stripped off a cool 2 billion into his own personal coffers and as the article linked below states,,,

He leaves behind a country of state-owned steel mills that do not produce steel, state-owned electric utilities that cannot keep the lights on, and state-owned supermarkets where you may be able to find chicken, coffee or toilet paper, but rarely all three at the same time.

www.ft.com...



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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s investigation into CIA’s assassination plots on foreign leaders in 1975 it was revealed that the agency had developed a poison dart gun that caused heart attacks and cancer. The gun fired a frozen liquid poison-tipped dart, the width of a human hair and a quarter of an inch long, that could penetrate clothing, was almost undetectable and left no trace in a victim’s body.


guardian.co.tt...



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


"in the thread prior to this" is this thread.

As far as "supporting someone who supports Agenda 21" there is no politician on Earth who has views I agree with 100% of the time. Are you saying there is someone in politics you support 100% of the time? If so I'd be extremely curious to know who that politician is.

I don't agree with Ron Paul's position on Abortion, and I don't agree with his idea to privatize everything, but had he got on the ticket I would have done everything in my meager and insubstantial power to get him elected.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by bubbamorris
 


It's not supporting Tyranny in my opinion. It's hating on the United States. Any way possible, as much as possible and as loudly as possible.

Hugo Chavez was a dictatorial ruler and a troll of the leadership variety. Despite that, he hated America and it's leaders. So, to many, for THAT reason above most if not all overs, he's their Hero if not more. He's sure seen as a wonderful guy and by so many who have never even set foot in his nation..while calling reports of conditions there lies and falsehoods.

We even have people making excuses and playing games about his personal net worth. I don't know why an incredible net worth is so surprising. Outside of some Western Nations and a few others ...the RULE is for leadership to be wealthy and not the exception. Wealthy to extremes....like Hugo. Yet, because he hated the U.S....EVERYTHING is okay for what he did with political prisoners, shutting down over 30 media outlets he didn't like the reporting of, nationalizing other nation's equipment and industrial sites ...and amassing a 2 billion dollar net worth.

It seems, if one hates the US enough and can say it loudly enough, almost ANYTHING is acceptable and can be ignored as "Well..gee..no one's perfect". Personally, I'm disgusted by it. Some folks need to get their butts out of the U.S. ...when the hatred for it is as strong as it's been on this thread, IMO.

I may have stated this much stronger...but I think I agree with what you had to say.
edit on 6-3-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74

OMG Carter founded it he isn't the one checking personally

The facts are he was voted in by the people fair and square how many times do I have to say it?
You said in this thread he rigged the elections which he didn't makes you either just wrong or a liar.
edit on 6-3-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)


I never said he wasn't voted in 'fair and square'. But I think its laughable that you seem to be under the impression that Venezuela is a beacon of hope and a model democracy given the level of corruption we've witnessed from Chavez himself. Like it or not, the man was a dictator who stole billions from the people he represented.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Malynn
reply to post by rock427
 


Who said everything was a conspiracy? Creating an organization and slapping the name "Transparency International" on it does not make it an authority on Transparency. I could create an orgnanization called Arbiter of Truth and I still wouldn't be the Arbiter of Truth.


Your irrational argument is based upon a logical fallacy. You assume that Mr. Eigen has something to gain by helping found a company with literally no enforcement power, that uses an index which ranks corruption. There are legit arguments against the index, yours however is not one of them.


I don't see anyone submitting Chavez for saint-hood. In fact in one of my posts in this thread I said:

"There is no man or woman in power who is a saint or without sin".

What I do see in this thread are people offering their condolences and admiration for a leader who stood up for his people. I also see a lot of hyperbole from people incapable of thinking outside of the Dogma of the oligarchy, and twisting themselves into knots because others don't share their programming.
edit on 3/6/13 by Malynn because: (no reason given)


Which is nothing more than an appeal to emotions on your part. Mr. Chavez was a dictator, not a saint. Polishing a turd won't change that.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by Malynn
 


I like Ron Paul and his son Rand. I'm on Rand Paul's email list and get updates from him. Some people who claim to be Libertarian supporters of Ron are really a bit left leaning, and I fail to understand how left leaners can be for Ron Paul and then turn around and think that Obama ia the next lesser of evils. Obama stands for everything Statist and nothing Liberty minded. People think that if someone is for gay rights then that makes them Libertarian or for liberties, but usually they are happy to curtail everyone else's rights.

Also Noam Chomsky is just another leftist in Libertarian clothes.

Anyway I have shown that Chavez is tied into the NWO as much as any other politician or leader by his statements on climate change. He is just a left hegelian is all.
edit on 6-3-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:40 PM
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You lost me at "Demcracy", OP...



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:00 PM
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Chavez will probably be replaced by another dictator madman who thinks socialism will fix the entire world.He was giving people free stuff but only if they liked Him and voted for Him.Hanging around every leader that hates Israel.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Leftist isn't embarrassing either. You can call me a leftist, pinko, commie, socialist. What's your point?

Did I say anything about Obama? I didn't vote for Obama. I can't think of a single politician I would vote for of either party other than Ron Paul.

reply to post by rock427
 


I'm glad we can agree Chavez wasn't a saint, and that no one is suggesting that.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Malynn
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Leftist isn't embarrassing either. You can call me a leftist, pinko, commie, socialist. What's your point?

Did I say anything about Obama? I didn't vote for Obama. I can't think of a single politician I would vote for of either party other than Ron Paul.

reply to post by rock427
 


I'm glad we can agree Chavez wasn't a saint, and that no one is suggesting that.



Over the months I have noticed a number of people claiming to be Libertarian Paul supporters only to find that they only support Progressive ideals and rights Progressives champion, such as abortion and gay marriage. I have also seen a number of them saythey would take Obama over Romney. Since Obama is a Statist extroardinaire it makes zero sense to support someone like that and then claim to be Libertarian.
I was assuming that even though you say you like Ron Paul, you think Chavez is the cat's meow, and to me the two just don't jell.
Or did I misinterpret your defense of Chavez as you thinking he is ok.
edit on 6-3-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by Malynn
 


So you gonna tell me these two aren't on the same page?

www.nbcnews.com...

and awww doesn't this just conjure up a Barney moment..."I luv you you lov me we're a happy family"...

www.reuters.com...



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Thank you for saying what I have been thinking about this site! So many supposed "Ron Paul supporters" and "libertarians" who really support the exact opposite of what it means to be any of those things! I am 100% sure that Ron Paul doesn't support the type of socialistic 14 year rule that Chavez had.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 12:22 AM
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Something has been bothering me and I didn't have the numbers or data to support it for saying anything before now. However, after taking a bit of time to look into things....Well, I just can't understand how anyone likes this guy. Oh, he didn't like American leaders. Not personally anyway. Although he and Obama got along fairly well.

Some portray him as a rebel against the system or a man against the North. This couldn't be further from the truth. On a personal and diplomatic level, it sucked....true. On a business and corporate level, Chavez was a shrewd and very successful (by the sound of his personal money) businessman. His poor people didn't see much by Per Capita numbers, as well as other indicators. He and his nation sure made bank off the United States though.

After all, for those who didn't know this, that evil corporate oil giant, Citgo, is Venezuela's personal chain of gas stations.

We Taketh.....at the rate of #2 on Oil Imports

. . . and they giveth.....at the rate of 43% of total Oil exports to the US

So, Robin Hood he wasn't....nor was he any Che Guevara. Heck, he had more in common with Ross Perot than Castro altho his politics was somewhere out left of the extreme, to some less than subtle opinions.

It just surprised me a bit at just HOW much the entire production of Venezuela, and with it, the fortunes of it, were dependent upon exports and particularly exports to the United States. I wonder how much of the 'I smell sulphur' business was just show?

The more I see the raw numbers of how deep he was in the Western Hemisphere's Oil business...the more I wonder how deep ties really went? After all, for all his complaining, the Gov't never DID do much about or to him. I did wonder about that .... Ask Noriega. Something always gave Hugo a free pass.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 12:30 AM
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hero??

wow u people are sick



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 12:37 AM
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I've noticed the news keeps showing images of Chavez supporters crying for him. The media makes it seem as if all of Venezuela loved the guy which is contrary to every Venezuelan I know.

Is it me or is the media pro-Chavez?

According to an in-law who lives across from the military academy where Chavez is being taken, there are tanks out in the street and soliders everywhere. Apparently, there are massive anti-Chavez protests taking place around the capital and soldiers are even shooting tear-gas into crowds of people.

I have not seens this on the news. I wonder why something like this would not be presented in the media?!?!



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by bubbamorris
 


It's not supporting Tyranny in my opinion. It's hating on the United States. Any way possible, as much as possible and as loudly as possible.

Hugo Chavez was a dictatorial ruler and a troll of the leadership variety. Despite that, he hated America and it's leaders. So, to many, for THAT reason above most if not all overs, he's their Hero if not more. He's sure seen as a wonderful guy and by so many who have never even set foot in his nation..while calling reports of conditions there lies and falsehoods.

We even have people making excuses and playing games about his personal net worth. I don't know why an incredible net worth is so surprising. Outside of some Western Nations and a few others ...the RULE is for leadership to be wealthy and not the exception. Wealthy to extremes....like Hugo. Yet, because he hated the U.S....EVERYTHING is okay for what he did with political prisoners, shutting down over 30 media outlets he didn't like the reporting of, nationalizing other nation's equipment and industrial sites ...and amassing a 2 billion dollar net worth.

It seems, if one hates the US enough and can say it loudly enough, almost ANYTHING is acceptable and can be ignored as "Well..gee..no one's perfect". Personally, I'm disgusted by it. Some folks need to get their butts out of the U.S. ...when the hatred for it is as strong as it's been on this thread, IMO.

I may have stated this much stronger...but I think I agree with what you had to say.
edit on 6-3-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)


I agree with you on this . You seem to be able to see the reality whereas so many are others are clearly being duped by conspiracy theories.

I don't know how anyone could be so confused about whether or not this guy is a dictator. I mean he changed the name of the country, the flag, posted his image everywhere around Venzeuala, changed the constitution, and regularly interrupted television programming to "ramble on and on about his agenda, and tell everyone how evil the US is".

I've even been told by an in-law that Chavez hands out guns to poor people to support his revolution against the "evil capitalists".



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by VonDinkinDunken
 

Thanks... I try and keep an open mind without crossing into that realm of being so open, my brain just falls right out and plops on the floor. I'm not sure how successful everyone is at keeping that balance.

I'm thinking of Hugo from the time he came to power and reading the stories about him from that first point on. Of course, that was right around and just before the world all changed forever and things went haywire in so many ways, wasn't it?

It's like critical thinking and reasoned questioning are fading to ideology.
Bad times ahead.






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