Anti-Masonry's Entitlement Position

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posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by irishpackerfan68
(All were freemasons that left and later testified to Freemasonry being a form of Satanism)
Pope Leo the 8th


What lodge was he in?


William Schnoebelen author of Masonry Beyond The Light


The Christian, Mormon, Satanic, Wiccan, Vampire? Good source.


John Quincy Adams


Where are the quotes were Adams says Masonry is Satanic?


ALBERT PIKE


What quotes?


George Washington


Washington was a Mason until he died and received a Masonic funeral. Where are the quotes were he claims Masonry is Satanic?


But why satan? Like why worship satan?


Satan is not even real. Get with the program.


And just like the freemasons they are probably worshipping the devil because no one could possibly have so little intelligence


So being that I do not believe in the Devil and you do what does that say about your intelligence level?




posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 06:26 AM
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hi AM !
each time i look at your avy
i see my statue in my living room that my mother gave me


Im curious to hear your though about this following JFK segment



Was JFK a mason ?
because i though all US presidents were masons
or a few masons dont agree with some modern rules

most people today that are part of the freemason think of themself to be above others
they get high positions in compagnies that normal people could never get
especialy governement and entertainment industry well paid positions

the pyramid is enormous and has many branch almost like a maze
it remind me of scientology in a way .. now
so it his hard to follow and know which master mason have some bad intentions
every one is so secretive and know how to lie and keep some big secrets from others masons
hard to know who are who even with the secret code .. the deception have many false doors and mirrors

look during the civil war in the US between the north and the south
both are part of the USA but had completely different goals for America
Abrham Lincoln and JFK were assasinated by the other side
so i think the masons are still splited in 2 like the north and the south 200 yrs ago

before masons were good people that had a purpose for the world (new age)
but it has been infiltrated with bad people with evil intentions on all degres level of masonry
it will be a mistake for me to say all masons are evil and woreship lucifer that would be untrue
but it would be a mistake for you to say that all masons
are good generous people that care for everyone on earth
edit on 2/20/2013 by Ben81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by Ben81
Im curious to hear your though about this following JFK segment...


You posted the chopped up conspiratard version so it is not only irrelevant to the Original Post but totally inaccurate in regards its context.

My question to you is do you even know the name Kennedy gave this speech?


Was JFK a mason ?


No, he was in the Knights of Columbus.


because i though all US presidents were masons
or a few masons dont agree with some modern rules


There have been 14 United States Presidents that were Masons with Gerald Ford being the last over 30 years ago.


most people today that are part of the freemason think of themself to be above others
they get high positions in compagnies that normal people could never get
especialy governement and entertainment industry well paid positions


If you say so. I would ask you to list them with their lodges that they belong to but we know how little the likelihood of that occuring is.


...it will be a mistake for me to say all masons are evil and woreship lucifer...


It would be a mistake for you to even believe in Lucifer.

Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy as well?



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


ok maybe this one with only the speech this time





you say JFK was from the knight of columbus ?
is this a different mason branch ?
like Bush and his skull and bones
there is so many different branch and lodge
how can you know for sure that everyone of them doesn practice satanism ?
its impossible for you to know that

btw i have edited my first post to add a few things
i think you saw it before that



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by Ben81

you say JFK was from the knight of columbus ?
is this a different mason branch ?
like Bush and his skull and bones

It's a Catholic version of a fraternal group. It's like masonry, but not connected at all since the Catholic church decided that you would be ex-communicated for joining masonry.



there is so many different branch and lodge
how can you know for sure that everyone of them doesn practice satanism ?
its impossible for you to know that

How do you know your parents weren't satanic mass murderers? You don't, it's impossible for you to KNOW that.
Circular logic is faulty, don't be that guy.


btw i have edited my first post to add a few things
i think you saw it before that




JFK's speech was called The President and the Press. If you listen to the whole thing he is calling for more secrecy from the press regarding national security. This speech followed the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. Kennedy was killed over two years later. And Skull and bones has nothing to do with masonry either. It's just another fraternal organization. There are many of them out there.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Ben81
you say JFK was from the knight of columbus ?
is this a different mason branch ?


It has nothing to do with Masonry.


how can you know for sure that everyone of them doesn practice satanism ?


Satan is make believe so why would I even worry?



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


I have a simple question AM. I would like to point out that I am not being facetious in anyway, nor am I trying to be rude. I ask out of sincerity and for clarification.

If Freemasonic knowledge, ritual, wisdom, and arts have been available for such a long time, why does the word "cowan" exist in a derogatory sense? You claim that we are free to know anything we'd like about Freemasonry, yet why is it that when I actually research it outside of Freemasonry, like you claim I am able to, I am called a 'cowan' and that the tiler will never admit me to the sanctum?

Is it that the information of Freemasonry is available, but we aren't allowed to know about it, without being a Mason?

This confuses me and ever since my thread with you all, and Mr. Norton, his reply has troubled me, because I could not understand why it would be so wrong for me to study Masonry on my own, since I have not had the privilege to learn from 'Initiated' minds?



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 

This confuses me and ever since my thread with you all, and Mr. Norton, his reply has troubled me, because I could not understand why it would be so wrong for me to study Masonry on my own, since I have not had the privilege to learn from 'Initiated' minds?

Most of these masonic blowhards, not pointing any fingers honestly, just in my broad experience discussing this on forums, I truly believe are narcissists who are likely patted on the head politely by their fellow masons, never grasping what is going on right before them.

I don't need to know more than police officers, judges, prosecutors, politicians, businessmen etc. should not be allowed to meet behind closed doors so they can get a good story prepared for everybody else.

I stand by what I said before. Look at the Poro in West Africa. Bronze age power structure. Nothing more nothing less.

If you're not profiting from being a Mason you're just doing it wrong.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 


I realize you weren't asking me, but.....the term cowan, in it's current use, is not meant to be derrogatory.


Bro. Harry Carr then writes: Cowan is an essentially Scottish trade term, and it belongs to the time when lodges, as trade-controlling bodies, put restrictions against the employment of cowans, in order to protect the fully-trained men of the Craft from competition by unskilled labour. The earliest official ban against cowans appeared in the Schaw Statutes in 1598. (1) To better understand the position of the cowan it is necessary to look at the organization of the old operative guilds. In the days of James I of Scotland (born 1394, reigned 1424-37), a statute was passed empowering craftsmen in their different branches to elect a wise man of the Craft to be the leader of that craft so that the King be not defrauded in the future, as had been in the past; because of untrue men in the Craft.


link to source

It's just someone who has not been initiated into the degrees of masonry. Since we don't let non members in and it's the tylers job to ensure that only members get in, a cowan, or non member will be asked to leave should he try to gain admission into a tyled lodge.

The only reason any mason would ask you not to study the secrets of masonry is if you are interested in joining, the only real way to learn the lessons is to not know what is going to happen next. Once you experience the initiation, you have to spend some time memorizing the events that took place, and only then, will you start to understand why you did what you did. As you might well know, reading about the ritual makes it seem a bit strange from an outside perspective. (an even an inside perspective at first) but in your training and advancement, you will come to understand the many meanings behind what you did and were taught. And then some of it will change. (evolve)



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
If Freemasonic knowledge, ritual, wisdom, and arts have been available for such a long time, why does the word "cowan" exist in a derogatory sense?


Cowan simply means someone who is not initiaited into Masonic ritual but is attempting to pass themselves off as a Mason by virtue of what they claim to know regarding Masonry. And to be perfectly honest anyone passing themselves off to be anything they are not is degrading. To themselves.


You claim that we are free to know anything we'd like about Freemasonry, yet why is it that when I actually research it outside of Freemasonry, like you claim I am able to, I am called a 'cowan' and that the tiler will never admit me to the sanctum?


Why would the Tyler admit you into a lodge if you are not a Mason?


Is it that the information of Freemasonry is available, but we aren't allowed to know about it, without being a Mason?


Anyone can learn it, the caveat is do not try to pass yourself off as a Mason.


This confuses me and ever since my thread with you all, and Mr. Norton, his reply has troubled me, because I could not understand why it would be so wrong for me to study Masonry on my own, since I have not had the privilege to learn from 'Initiated' minds?


I think you may be misconstruing what he said.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by guanyu
If you're not profiting from being a Mason you're just doing it wrong.


I am not sure what lodge you happen to be a member of but my jursidiction is not set up to allow networking for any reason during lodge.

If you happen to meet people after lodge and strike up a conversation as to their chose profession and you find that your Brother may own a car repair business and you need your car repaired who are you going to contact? Him or some random person you do not know?



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by guanyu
If you're not profiting from being a Mason you're just doing it wrong.


I am not sure what lodge you happen to be a member of but my jursidiction is not set up to allow networking for any reason during lodge.

If you happen to meet people after lodge and strike up a conversation as to their chose profession and you find that your Brother may own a car repair business and you need your car repaired who are you going to contact? Him or some random person you do not know?

Thank you for your transparency.

I'm not a member. I find the whole concept distasteful.

I've researched it and know members, one who allowed me to peruse his masonic dictionary no less. It's got an absolutely fascinating mythology to be sure. So be a church. A secret society is wrong. If I want a good mechanic, I'll check reviews online. If I was a friend of a mechanic, by all means I'd go to his shop, whether we were "Brothers" or not. The whole thing reeks of "scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."

I'm not trying to be offensive, just honest.
edit on 20-2-2013 by guanyu because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-2-2013 by guanyu because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-2-2013 by guanyu because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Thanks for the reply to both you and AM. This little bit was thoroughly confounding me, as it did not add up with some of the other things that was said on the board.

Be comforted that I am not necessarily attempting to pass myself off as a Mason, but to be most honest and true, I love the things you love, and I believe in past lives as well...

There was a saying some time ago, that "Once a Mason, always a Mason."

Maybe that is what is pulling on me now? I am a descendant of a famous Scottish High-land clan, Macleod, and would not be surprised if any of my ancestor's were Masons. On my mother's side, Milliron, I know were Mason's, but not much of my father's side.

Thank you for the clarification my friends, I must bid you adieu for now...

Service calls me elsewhere.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by guanyu
I'm not a member. I find the whole concept distasteful.


You find self-betterment and charity distasteful? How so?


I've researched it and know members, one who allowed me to peruse his masonic dictionary no less. It's got an absolutely fascinating mythology to be sure. So be a church. A secret society is wrong.


We are neither a 'church' nor a 'secret society', nor should we be. We are a charitable fraternal orginization.


If I want a good mechanic, I'll check reviews online.


Because the internet never lies, right? No one fluffs their reviews or has sock puppets?


I'm not trying to be offensive, just honest.


I rarely get offended on this forum. It is more of a comical disbelief at some of the things posted.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by guanyu
I'm not a member. I find the whole concept distasteful.


You find self-betterment and charity distasteful? How so?

It's not the beliefs, or the traditions, or the lofty ideals, it's the potential for abuse. No organizational structure on Earth shows the potential for abuse more than secret societies.



I've researched it and know members, one who allowed me to peruse his masonic dictionary no less. It's got an absolutely fascinating mythology to be sure. So be a church. A secret society is wrong.


We are neither a 'church' nor a 'secret society', nor should we be. We are a charitable fraternal orginization.

Please, let's not play semantics. We're all adults here.



If I want a good mechanic, I'll check reviews online.


Because the internet never lies, right? No one fluffs their reviews or has sock puppets?

Irrelevant.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by Ben81
 

I can't listen to the video right now as I'm in class...I know, I know, I should be paying attention, but I'm not.

No, JFK was not a Mason. Only 14 US Presidents have ever been Masons.

At the height of Freemasonry there was maybe 5% of men were Freemasons, but now there's only over 1.3-million members in the US.


most people today that are part of the freemason think of themself to be above others

No we don't.


they get high positions in compagnies that normal people could never get

Examples? Proof?


every one is so secretive and know how to lie and keep some big secrets from others masons

Lying is wrong, even in Freemasonry nor do we "keep some big secrets" from our own members. That is laughable.


so i think the masons are still splited in 2 like the north and the south 200 yrs ago

Why do you think that?


but it has been infiltrated with bad people with evil intentions on all degres level of masonry

By who and what did they do to change Freemasonry? When did this all occur?

You've made a rather poor hypothesis.

reply to post by Ben81
 

In this speech he is talking about the responsibility of the news media with secrets of national security. You must look at what had just happened. Bay of Pigs anyone? He actually calls for far more secrecy and wanted the media to not expose any operations that the government may be exercising at the time.

He was not talking about such groups like Freemasonry.


is this a different mason branch ?

No, it's not related to Freemasonry. It's a Catholic organization.


like Bush and his skull and bones

Skull & Bones is not a Masonic branch. They are completely different.


how can you know for sure that everyone of them doesn practice satanism ?
its impossible for you to know that

What an individual does is there own thing, but to worship Satan would technically be a violation of their entry into Freemasonry as Satan is not a supreme being, he was created by another being and thus not supreme. As an organization there is no push for Satanism.

reply to post by guanyu
 

It's all about ME!


I don't need to know more than police officers, judges, prosecutors, politicians, businessmen etc. should not be allowed to meet behind closed doors so they can get a good story prepared for everybody else.

So you're willing to stomp on civil rights to appease some unfounded paranoia? Huh.


If you're not profiting from being a Mason you're just doing it wrong.

Sure, I've profited, but what I've gained can't be measured. I feel that I am a good person and I enjoy my time with my Brethren. I have met good men, not by scheming to network, but out of simple travel and congregation. What is profit?

reply to post by guanyu
 

Secret society is a term used to try and demonize us. We're a private fraternal organization.

Man is a social creature and is prone to congregate together. Freemasonry is one avenue for that.

reply to post by guanyu
 

If you're afraid of the possibility of corruption then we should never allow men to congregate or converse. We should take up the reigns of anarchic isolationism. To Hell with the 1st Amendment and the right to assembly.
Such things are unfounded.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by guanyu
 

It's all about ME!


I don't need to know more than police officers, judges, prosecutors, politicians, businessmen etc. should not be allowed to meet behind closed doors so they can get a good story prepared for everybody else.

So you're willing to stomp on civil rights to appease some unfounded paranoia? Huh.


If you're not profiting from being a Mason you're just doing it wrong.

Sure, I've profited, but what I've gained can't be measured. I feel that I am a good person and I enjoy my time with my Brethren. I have met good men, not by scheming to network, but out of simple travel and congregation. What is profit?

reply to post by guanyu
 

Secret society is a term used to try and demonize us. We're a private fraternal organization.

Man is a social creature and is prone to congregate together. Freemasonry is one avenue for that.

reply to post by guanyu
 

If you're afraid of the possibility of corruption then we should never allow men to congregate or converse. We should take up the reigns of anarchic isolationism. To Hell with the 1st Amendment and the right to assembly.
Such things are unfounded.

You lambast me for my concerns and then admit to them, as did your "Brother."

You've really done nothing with your tone than reveal your duplicitous nature.

I don't have that much to say about Masonry, as I'm not invested in it, other than it should be abolished, for obvious reasons, but I'm not going to march around and work for Masonry's abolition. However, I will express my opinion and as a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment, I ask you to respect that.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by guanyu
It's not the beliefs, or the traditions, or the lofty ideals, it's the potential for abuse. No organizational structure on Earth shows the potential for abuse more than secret societies.


I think your mental picture of how Masonry functions and the parameters by which it actually operates are not even close. Give me an example of the abuse potential.


Please, let's not play semantics. We're all adults here.


Semantics? We do not teach religion and we are far from secret. There are five secret passwords and handshakes and even those are found online. There has not been a good secret in over three hundred years.


Irrelevant.


Accurate.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Semantics? We do not teach religion

Well no one teaches religion, they preach it. Masonry can't be taught because it's not factual. It's a belief system, so it is more true to say that it is preached.


and we are far from secret. There are five secret passwords and handshakes and even those are found online. There has not been a good secret in over three hundred years.

Again you admit the truth and then turn around and deny it.

Maybe you just haven't heard the good secrets. Are you top dog?

It's pointless to go back and forth. You know my stance. I know yours. I can respect that. I'm just saying what I think needs to be said.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by guanyu
However, I will express my opinion and as a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment, I ask you to respect that.


The 1st Amendment is irrelevant in conversations such as this as it is not applicable.





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