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Anti-Masonry's Entitlement Position

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posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


I guess we shouldn’t know everything, or shall I say some types of people shouldn’t know everything, as that would create a collective panic and chaos.




posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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As my family always said "there is no such thing as a good secret". Im sorry but thousands of people testify to being hazed while in freemasonry and thousands more testify to worshipping satan and the masons are on dual membership with wicca witchcraft. You might be able to manipulate people into believing your an organzation does do good through charity and i cant agrue that you dont. But theres a reason why you people need a "closed door policy" for the inhumanities that i will pharse again THOUSANDS of people have testified to. Everywhere from sexual hazing to drinking animal blood to selling your soul when become a 33rd degree mason. Of course your going to deny any acts of violence because whos going to know besides the people who are in it. And the people who leave it you can label as "whackjobs" like no your all wrong you shouldnt be able to exist as an organzation i have no respect for freemasons/witches or anyone of an occult. You soul will burn for what you are doing here



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 


please show proof of these THOUSANDS of people who claim to being hazed in freemasonry.
First, you need to be able to prove your statement, second, you have to be able to prove that the ones you refer to were actually masons.

Otherwise, you are blowing large plumes of smoke up the collective backside of ATS.

good luck with all that.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by irishpackerfan68
As my family always said "there is no such thing as a good secret". Im sorry but thousands of people testify to being hazed while in freemasonry and thousands more testify to worshipping satan and the masons are on dual membership with wicca witchcraft. You might be able to manipulate people into believing your an organzation does do good through charity and i cant agrue that you dont. But theres a reason why you people need a "closed door policy" for the inhumanities that i will pharse again THOUSANDS of people have testified to. Everywhere from sexual hazing to drinking animal blood to selling your soul when become a 33rd degree mason. Of course your going to deny any acts of violence because whos going to know besides the people who are in it. And the people who leave it you can label as "whackjobs" like no your all wrong you shouldnt be able to exist as an organzation i have no respect for freemasons/witches or anyone of an occult. You soul will burn for what you are doing here


Care to give us a few names of these thousands ? I mean if it is that many people it should be more than easy for you to provide us names , right ?

I have never , in all my years and in all my travels , seen hazing in Freemasonry . I have never seen any worshipping of satan . I do not believe in Wicca and/or witchcraft , or satan for that matter , and I can not practice nor worship in something I do not believe in .

And you have proof that one must sell his soul to become a 33rd SR Mason . I will inform my very best of friends that they sold their souls because you said so . I await your proof with abated breath .

And do you know the definition of the word "OCCULT" ? Why do so many say it in such derogatory terms . I know , I know , it is because they have no idea what it means .

I am not denying it because I am a Freemason , I honestly do not care what you believe , but since you put it in writing I will deny it because it is absolutely ridiculous and talk of ignorance on something you know nothing about .
edit on 19-2-2013 by whenandwhere because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

Your family should stop saying that as there is nothing wrong with secrets or secrecy. Everyone enjoys secrets, everyone.


Im sorry but thousands of people testify to being hazed while in freemasonry and thousands more testify to worshipping satan and the masons are on dual membership with wicca witchcraft.

Thousands?! I'm sure this is an exaggeration, but nonetheless I'd like to see these testimonies of thousands. I've been through numerous Masonic degrees and never once considered any of it traumatizing, hazing, or embarrassing. In fact, some of the initiations I've gone through are very solemn and respectful.

I'd also like to know where in Freemasonry we worship Satan. Also, it is not my place to judge someone if they believe in Wicca, I can only live my life according to my beliefs and in my faith.


But theres a reason why you people need a "closed door policy" for the inhumanities that i will pharse again THOUSANDS of people have testified to.

Originally and still today we hold our privacy dear because of the intolerance of fascists, tyrants, and despots.

I also say you are very misinformed on what happens in Lodge. I'd really love to see your sources.


Everywhere from sexual hazing to drinking animal blood to selling your soul when become a 33rd degree mason.

Wild accusations like this only make me laugh and it only does your cause harm as it is completely unfounded.


Of course your going to deny any acts of violence because whos going to know besides the people who are in it.

Please tell where in our ritual that the violence occurs?


And the people who leave it you can label as "whackjobs" like no your all wrong

I am still friends with some men who decided to leave Freemasonry.


...you shouldnt be able to exist as an organzation...

That's your opinion, but we have the right to assemble and the right to privacy...at least here in America, but the oppression of civil and basic human rights never stopped us in the past from still congregating rightfully.


...i have no respect for freemasons/witches or anyone of an occult. You soul will burn for what you are doing here

You should also learn how to properly use the word "occult". I am confident about the status of my soul and to the goodness of the Masonic Fraternity.
edit on 19-2-2013 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by irishpackerfan68
Im sorry but thousands of people testify to being hazed while in freemasonry and thousands more testify to worshipping satan...


Good. List some of these thousands then. Should not be too hard if there are so many.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:13 PM
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Well im glad i got your attention lol. For freemason occultists you dont seem to know so much of your own society much less the definition


Heres the 4 definitions for occult according to dictonary.reference.com 1. of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies. 2. beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding; mysterious. 3. secret; disclosed or communicated only to the initiated. 4. hidden from view. I dont understand how my usage of the word occult could possibly make you think otherwise. If anything you should be telling me what the definition is.

Well, lets get started. (I dont want to name all the thousands that I lot of time to put into) but I will name the most famous freemasons who did end up turning their backs on the occult because they realized how much BS freemasonry is. I actually find it ironic that you all use the same mentality as inter city gangs use. O brother (no pun intended

(All were freemasons that left and later testified to Freemasonry being a form of Satanism)
Pope Leo the 8th
William Schnoebelen author of Masonry Beyond The Light
John Quincy Adams
ALBERT PIKE (If you're true masons you should know that the first 92 pages of your "holy bible" [even though its suppose to mock the concept of a bible. I get it your humor sucks] contain his quotes yet he freely backhanded your society.)
George Washington
Theres much more theres many more books articles that go with what im saying

I allready you know you people need to lie to keep a secret or else youll get you fingers cut off. (one of your blue lodge rituals) But why satan? Like why worship satan? Why do masons feel like they need to be superior than everyone yet we are all here together. Like you people try to say freemasonry has nothing to do with satanism but if you google search freemasonry satanism. masons speaking out. There literally thousands of valid threads with at least 20 books for any given topic. Brotherhood doesnt mean anything when you have a prymiad sceme. Its just like I could even feel sorry that your devoting your life to an evil entity for the sake of whatever powers your looking for. I could tell none of your probably past the crafts stage. That you have no real power within masonry. One guy doesnt even know the how to use the definition of occult yet hes going to tell me hes a mason. I dont understand what makes secret societies want to destroy humanity and declare supremacy but I know at some point (and its probably going to be a while) that people are going to start realizing that maybe the people in power right that just so happenly linked to other secret societies probably shouldnt be there. And just like the freemasons they are probably worshipping the devil because no one could possibly have so little intelligence



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:24 PM
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Your sexual abuse/hazing references
Only from 2 pages of searching
www.bibleprobe.com...
www.real-debt-elimination.com...
faithallen.wordpress.com...
www.dailystar.co.uk...
www.davidicke.com...
12160.info...
www.health-forums.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com... Yes references from our own site
Book Mystics and Messiahs
The Cupboard Under The Stairs
It's a dark world
Lure of the sinister.


But these are all wrong right? Because Freemasons do nothing but good right?



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 09:30 PM
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www.cuttingedge.org...
www.exposingsatanism.org...
www.ritualabusefree.org...



Even if you could poke holes into this could you poke holes into the other thousands of references that are at my disposal. Testmonies, Claims, History, Videos, Articles, Journals, Books, all on Freemasonry being satanic but its still not satanic? Your going to tell me thousands of people are wrong. That people from history as far back as the 17th century are wrong. That your secret society doesn't involve satan in any way shape or form? Im sorry but I think i proven my point.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


My My,, another non Freemason telling it like it is.


You guys are a joke, making wild claims, you post a dozen or so links, and expect us to look through your crap..

If you make a wild claim please source it with a quote and link, otherwise your just trolling in my eyes.

I will tell you something else shall I, do you know why, I know your posting crap.
There's only one way to know for sure.

I became a Freemason years after joining ATS, and after reading all the rubbish of the never ending crap about Freemasonry,

Not one of these wild and crazy claim is true.

But I know you won't believe me, even though I found out for my self.

And am a better man for it.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 10:37 PM
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and what degree are you exactly?



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 


Of what importance is this LOL, I get it I'm not high enough.

Well I'm only an Master Mason and an Officer of my lodge. I'm also a member of the York Rite and Widows Sons.
I know our Grand Lodge Officers very well too, seeing ride with a few of them.

Point is I know the truth, I have experienced our rituals, you can only assume and believe what you think is true from written work of others.



posted on Feb, 19 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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One only has to look at the Poro society in Western Africa to understand the intrinsic power behind a secret brotherhood in a patriarchal society.

I don't care how innocuous your experience, how little influence Masonry may or may not have at this time, or any of that.

The basic premise is wrong. It is the last vestiges of bronze age power structure.
edit on 19-2-2013 by guanyu because: (no reason given)
edit on 19-2-2013 by guanyu because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 12:48 AM
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ehhhh im not sure. I guess you can achieve enlightenment through negativity. In every masonic ritual the idea is your suppose to feel scared or frightened or confused and then your fellow masons are suppose to help you through it. When I look at it from an OBP i guess i could see why but it doesnt make sense to why do you have to be scared to learn. In a sense its only making you weaker. It makes you more insecure and more prone to obeying orders and almost like a miltary boot camp. Its just like the way your seeking enlightenment its just not even you in control of yourself you become possessed. And if the real power of conscienousness is confidence then why shouldnt it be an open and fun experince. Any mason who tries to claim they have powers over me I know its not true its complete BS. I dont know how to describe it in words other than you take some of the most beautiful things in life and destroy them. Anyone can destroy stuff and be angry and pissed off all the time but it really takes someone strong to love something knowing there might be negative consequences to it. Sure freemasons and occults run the world right now but thats because this world is so negative. Its only going to take the kindness of a few people to change the tides and channel the negativity occults like yourselves create. In a way I really do feel sorry for you guys, but on the other hand you're without a doubt going to burn in the hell you created.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

I pity your arrogance. You claim to have this overwhelming amount of evidence via testimony and yet we've seen nothing, plus what you are not posting is speculative hearsay. I mean I have first hand experience and my integrity is intact.


For freemason occultists you dont seem to know so much of your own society much less the definition

I know quite a bit, but I'm always learning and re-learning (as we all forget) information. Now, it may sound arrogant on my part, but I'm confident that I know much more than you in regards to Freemasonry.

I know what the definition of "occult" is, but the way in which you used it was not entirely correct.

The Pope was not a Mason, Will Schnoebelen is a known liar and a proven hoax, and John Q. Adams was never a Mason. He was adamantly opposed to Freemasonry. Albert Pike never speaks of Satanism in Freemasonry.


(If you're true masons you should know that the first 92 pages of your "holy bible" [even though its suppose to mock the concept of a bible. I get it your humor sucks] contain his quotes yet he freely backhanded your society.)

The Holy Bible is not mocked in Lodge.


George Washington

Never spoke against Freemasonry.

You realize your perpetuating only lies and ignorance, right?


I allready you know you people need to lie to keep a secret or else youll get you fingers cut off. (one of your blue lodge rituals)

Completely false. This is nowhere in the Blue Lodge ritual.
If this is the kind of information you're basing your opinion off of then you are founded upon lies and false information.

If you think I'm lying or mistaken please tell me where in the Blue Lodge ritual this is used. What degree? Page number? Section? Where?


But why satan? Like why worship satan?

There is nothing in Freemasonry that suggests we worship Satan. Most misconceptions come from either strict ignorance or deceptive/sinister hatred of Freemasonry; usually from a misquote of Albert Pike from his book "Morals & Dogma", but such accusations come from illogical arguments.

In the York Rite, the first two bodies are open to any faith, but the Chivalric Orders require one to be a follower of the Christian faith. The Order of the Temple, the last of the Chivalric Orders, is one of the most reverent and most personal ceremonies one can through (IMO).


Why do masons feel like they need to be superior than everyone yet we are all here together.

Who says we do? I have never believed myself superior to any non-Mason purely out of my Masonic affiliation.


Like you people try to say freemasonry has nothing to do with satanism but if you google search freemasonry satanism.

Really? This is your smoking gun? Google? If you search those terms you're going to find garbage recycled again and again on thousands of sites. It's not thousands of different sources, but one just cut-and-pasted ad infinitum. A lie told thousands of times is still a lie just as the false information held against Freemasonry is still false.

No offense meant, but your reasoning is wanting and somewhat childish (that is to say simplistic) in nature. Just because you find it on Google doesn't mean it's true. I mean if you put in the right parameters you can find articles that state the moon is made out of cheese.


There literally thousands of valid threads with at least 20 books for any given topic.

Oh, I'm sure there are thousands of threads, but as to their validity, that's another story.

20 books?! Well, you've sure put us in our places.



Brotherhood doesnt mean anything when you have a prymiad sceme.

Well, that's not an accurate description of how Freemasonry is organized.


I could tell none of your probably past the crafts stage.

Ummmm...several of us are in the Scottish Rite and a few of us are in the York Rite, and then are some that are a part of other Masonic organizations. I have 14 dues cards for the various Masonic organizations I belong to. Regardless though, the highest honor for me is when I served as Master of my Lodge. I have presided over other bodies and currently preside over the Knights Templar in my town (well region as my Commandery covers a vast area of my State).

This kind of an attack just shows how desperate your side is to discredit the truth and push your propaganda.


That you have no real power within masonry.

Me thinks you're projecting here. It's not about power nor do I use Freemasonry in some antiquating pursuit for power. I earn my place and where I am I am content, but I will continue to try and better myself and if recognized then so be it. Only the weak seek power without earning it.

To be continued...



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

You didn't use it correctly in my opinion, but that opinion doesn't negate my time in Freemasonry.

The goal of Freemasonry is not to destroy humanity or supremacy. Nor is there a signficant number of leaders who are Freemasons.


And just like the freemasons they are probably worshipping the devil because no one could possibly have so little intelligence

It's sad that people like you have to attack the beliefs of others to make yourself feel better.

reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

Your first reference is a religious fanaticism site so there credibility is shot, but lets look at what they say. I'm Christian and sites like this only show how so many "christians" today have replaced their faith of compassion and virtues of Christ with fear and insecurity.


Although they will deny it to you at first, most Masons find out in later degrees that the great lie of Masonry is exactly the same lie Satan is living.


And they think the end result will be no need for God; because they think the perfect Mason is like God.


Masons are lied to about everything in the 1st three degrees.


The secret goal of Masonry is to subjugate the world for Masonry, and be like God.


Almost none of Masonry's teachings come from Christianity.

False

The Grand Architect of the Universe is a term which is to be defined by each individual member.


In each degree, the Mason pledges himself to a different Egyptian deity. There is a thirty-third degree that is largely honorary, but the thirty-two degrees give you access to becoming a Shriner.

False. You only ever needed to be a 32nd degree Mason to be a Shriner, but this no longer applies as you now only need to be a Master Mason in good standing to join.

The "G" is primarily an American device and in non-English speaking countries its not used at all. The whole "generative principle" accusation is laughable and just shows how the repressed have sex on the brain. Again, we see projection coming out.


Freemasonry is one of many apostate religions dedicated to the destruction of traditional Judaism and Christianity.

False. Freemasonry is not a religion nor does it meet the necessary requirements to be considered one. Nor is Freemasonry trying to destroy any religion.


In his book Masonry "Beyond the Light", William Schnoebelen (now a saved Christian) talks about his experiences as first a Satanist and then a Mason who passed through nearly all the Mason Degrees, including some that American Masons are unaware of; such as degrees in Masonry like the Egyptian rites of Masonry and the Paladin.

Bill is a known liar and just by reading his books you can see that. Anyone who believes him deserves to be deceived. His timeline of events shows him to be a liar.

I'm not going to continue as this thread is far too long, but regardless from what I've seen from the sample data, the population data must be the same false information. This website displayed no truth and really shows the deceptive and overall unchristian nature of some so-called "christians" who have taken up militancy and thrown Christ out of Christianity. Apparently "thou shall not lie" doesn't apply when you have an agenda.

To be continued...



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

Your second source cannot be confirmed, but from the story it is a lie. There is no credibility in this site and you cannot necessarily take what Schizos say as they are detached from reality.


EGYPTIAN-MASONIC-SATANIC CONNECTION

Using phrases like this make me laugh.

Also looking at the bottom links in the article, you list Aleister Crowley, but he was never a recognized Mason; he was denied entry by all recognized Masonic Lodges.

This website seems to do nothing more than perpetuate the same garbage recycled again and again over time even when its proven false. You want and need a scapegoat and Freemasonry seems to be your victim, and you'll believe whatever you have to do justify your hatred.

Within the first paragraph of the 3 website I had to laugh as he is showing classic signs of others implanting false memories.

I also the love of the photo even though it probably wasn't taken anywhere near a Lodge or a facility owned by Masons. Also the whole "high level" and "low level" charges of anti-Masons are laughable as this only shows what little they know about how Freemasonry is structured.

As for the 4th website, Daily Star? Really? Also, you should read the first paragraph of the article: "alleged". Allegations are not tantamount to reality.

The fifth website is actually an argument between me and a banned member.
And I stand by my statements in that thread.


In reference to the 6th website, Saville was not a Mason nor were his disgusting crimes a problem of the Freemasons. The Order of Malta he belonged to was not the Masonic one, but rather the Catholic one. Just like in Freemasonry "Knights of Malta" and "Knights Templar" are not copyrighted or trademarked names so anyone can use them and there are several independent bodies using these names.

The seventh website cites Freemasonry Watch which is not credible and is ran by a sadistic liar.

As to your last source, I'm familiar with the thread and I stand by my comments.


But these are all wrong right?

Yes, they are wrong, but that's because truth and reality show them to be wrong and false.


Because Freemasons do nothing but good right?

There's always bad apples, but they are statistically insignificant and not indicative of what the Fraternity really is about. A majority of them show their true bad colors and we rid them of their presence among our members. Remember, just because there are some bad apples you don't burn down the orchard.

Overall, you are inspired and influenced by false sources and hold hatred towards an innocent Fraternity.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

I've written in length in other threads of the false information perpetuated by this website, and I'm not spending that much time again...also its 1 a.m. and I'm going to bed. Regardless of the false information, this site like so many focus far too much on the Scottish Rite, thinking its the central authority overall Freemasonry when it is not.

The second source makes many false statements. I'm going to pull some laughable excerpts out:


The lodge is traced back to London, England in 1717. It is believed that James Anderson set up the constitution.

This date only signifies the founding of the first Grand Lodge.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 

You lecture us on negativity? Really?

Our enlightenment comes from true knowledge and not baselessly attacking someone's belief system.


In every masonic ritual the idea is your suppose to feel scared or frightened or confused and then your fellow masons are suppose to help you through it.

Not true in any way.


Any mason who tries to claim they have powers over me I know its not true its complete BS.

Who says they have power over you?


I dont know how to describe it in words other than you take some of the most beautiful things in life and destroy them.

Freemasonry is not about destruction, figurative or literal.


Sure freemasons and occults run the world right now but thats because this world is so negative.

Which Freemasons are in control? If the world was in the hands of the Freemasons it would be ran a lot different.



posted on Feb, 20 2013 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by irishpackerfan68
 


Bill Shenobelen. So that is your source.

Here.



This timeline is from HIS website. He approved it.

If you can look at this and still find him credible, you deserve to be as misled as you are right now.

Like, the dude was a freakin vampire. Really?





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