Anti-Masonry's Entitlement Position

Originally posted by guanyu
Well no one teaches religion, they preach it.

I take it you never attended a Catechism class where Roman Catholicism is taught to children who's parents are parishoners.

Masonry can't be taught because it's not factual. It's a belief system, so it is more true to say that it is preached.

Masonry is not a belief system, it is an allegorical and metaphorical system of morality.

Again you admit the truth and then turn around and deny it.

Admit the truth of and deny what? Having a few secret handshakes does not make us a secret society. Hell, my lodge is on line and before that was in the phone book.

Maybe you just haven't heard the good secrets. Are you top dog?

I was.

Originally posted by guanyu
I don't have that much to say about Masonry, as I'm not invested in it, other than it should be abolished, for obvious reasons...as a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment

One of these things is not like the other...

www.foxnews.com...
hazingmasonic.blogspot.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

For the person who said that it is in no way true that masons reach enlightenment by fear those links above are examples of people who ended up dying in a masonic rituals. Im sure you all of heard of william james and his story of how he was killed "accidently" by one of your occult breathern. If it were the case that he was killed accidently the idea of being shot with blanks its not exactly inspiring. A mainstream published organzation can confirm that guns are used to shoot people in masonic rituals to scare them. So there for Skmason (whatever) you have been proven wrong when you say that in no way do the rituals use fear. You're a liar.

www.jesus-is-savior.com...

Quote is the first on the page of him hating on the illuminati when ironicly modern day freemasonry was a branch derived from the illumanti. Even with him being some kind of high mason he still didnt even understand that the illumanti was his superiors. there is also speculation of him denoucning freemasonry on his death bed to his friend but the actual quotes were covered to keep freemasonry satanism morale high (i guess).

I figured you guys were going to react the way you did when i mentioned William Schnoebelen. The chart that one of you people posted showed that at points in his life William Schnoebelen was so many different things. Which is why is arguement is valid. The man was a satanist. Was a wiccan, was a mason, was a vampire, was a mormon. Wanna know what these organzations all have in common. Occultism. Wanna know something? The man knows more about satanism than i'd like to say 95% of the population ever knew. And yet....... he still testified to your organzation being a bunch of satanists. In my prespective you just added more gas to the fire by putting a chart up from the first page of google images. thank you for making it more clear on the testimony of your"brother" of your "fraternity"

www.texemarrs.com...

John Quincy Adams former freemason. Quote is top of the page

www.srorlando.org...

Albert Pike. Quote on top and middle (middle is more denouncing)\

Got any more brillant scatterbrained accusations you want to throw at me? I love how all the masons could quote everything I wrote previously yet only one mason opposed to the idea of masonic enlightenment being a negative force. I guess you got to keep that secret alive right?

This goes out to Ben81. Dont listen to these people. They take an oath to withhold all the secrets of freemasonry at any cost so they are going to try to lie you and trick you. Never trust a mason. Do your own research and visit their lodges. Youll get the overwhelming feeling of creepy old men child rapers and satanism as soon as you walk in. But I would definitly encourage you to try destroying what you can on the way out. They have very expensive things in those lodges. Trust me youll know what I am talking about when you walk in its almost like a haunted house or a really creepy cemetary.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by guanyu
I don't have that much to say about Masonry, as I'm not invested in it, other than it should be abolished, for obvious reasons...as a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment

One of these things is not like the other...

Well it is clear to anyone who checks back a couple posts that this is a deceptive quote, misconstruing my point, by combining sentences and clauses that were unrelated to each other. I realize this may have been unintentional, but I was addressing the other poster as a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment, as he had previously used this argument, not referring to myself.

Is insider trading protected by the 1st Amendment? Also just the "free association" of people exercising their 1st amendment rights to speak freely, right? Read the text of the Bill of Rights and tell me with a straight face that was meant to protect organizations like Freemasonry.

Whether you realize it or not, whether your experience has been positive, enlightening, world-changing, or not, it doesn't change the fact that Freemasonry is a Bronze Age patriarchal power structure. Is it or is it not an organization built on the foundation of mystery religions from the Bronze Age? Yes, it is. Is it or is it not an accountable organization with complete transparency? No it is not.

It's not about personal experiences and opinions. It is what it is and it is a bronze age power structure.

I'm glad it works for you and you're on the up and up, and a good moral human being, etc. but it's wrong, and should go.

reply to post by guanyu

What corrupt activity did I admit to? Like I said, what the profit I gained was not something that could be measured. I consider my friendship with many of my Brethren to be priceless, but have influenced and bettered my life - their friendship is my profit. Like I said, what is profit?

You've really done nothing with your tone than reveal your duplicitous nature.

Duplicitous? Oooooooohhhhhhhhh! Someone pulled out their dictionary. I have not been deceitful.

...other than it should be abolished, for obvious reasons...

What reasons? Secrecy isn't bad nor does it automatically lead to deceit or corruption. Plus, only tyrants and despots have abolished and banned Freemasonry within their domain...not that we still didn't and don't meet.

However, I will express my opinion and as a staunch defender of the 1st Amendment, I ask you to respect that.

You have your opinion and rights, and I have mine.

reply to post by guanyu

Freemasonry doesn't meet the basic requirements to be considered a religion.

Secrets are not inherently good or bad; it's how they are used. Everyone enjoys secrets and secrecy to some level, everyone.

Originally posted by KSigMason
Duplicitous? Oooooooohhhhhhhhh! Someone pulled out their dictionary. I have not been deceitful.

Look at your behavior. It's that of a petulant child.

I thought Masons welcomed honorable discourse between men, blah blah blah.

You're duplicitous because you present yourselves as enlightened when you're hostile, and often liars. I don't even think you realize it, though.

I'm not even trying to present Masons in a bad light, you do it for me.

All I've ever said is I think the concept behind it is wrong.

When I read some of the links and comments posted on ats from these religious fanatics I feel so lucky I have nothing to do with the church. Btw I thought most mason secrets are just handshakes and rituals not the "secrets of the universe"

reply to post by irishpackerfan68

I notice you won't reply to my replies to you. Why is that? None of your previous sources proved anything and neither do these.

Your first and second links talk about an incident that took place in a "club" not in an actual approved Masonic ritual. The men involved were dealt with by the civil law and Masonic law properly.

Your third link talks about the death of a soldier whose death was said to have been tied with the Masons, but never proven. Like I've said, accusations are not proof of guilt.

The use of fear to coerce others to follow their agenda seems to be the practice of anti-Masons, not Freemasonry itself. Only the weak need to use fear to force others to do their bidding or follow their rules. I was never struck, humiliated, traumatized, injured, and so on in any of the many Masonic bodies I've joined.

...those links above are examples of people who ended up dying in a masonic rituals.

Except your first two links contain a story about a club, not an actual Masonic body or ritual. It was something stupid that bit them in the ass in the end and led to the death of a Brother.

Im sure you all of heard of william james and his story of how he was killed "accidently" by one of your occult breathern.

There's nothing to suggest it was anything other than an accident. Quit spinning tales without actual facts or knowledge, that is lying and a sin.

So there for Skmason (whatever) you have been proven wrong when you say that in no way do the rituals use fear. You're a liar.

Like I said, this club was not an actual Masonic ritual. If you had any real knowledge you'd realize that, but you have hardly any real knowledge and have been misled by Fear Inc. You are posting only minsconstrued information, not real fact. You've also posted information fabricated by the religiously fanatic and tyrannical. Not exactly credible sources.

As for your Jesus-is-savior link, this site is known to be full of lies and I've proven time and time again the lies they perpetuate. While I'm Christian I don't attend any formal church anymore because of people like you. You are overly aggressive and really only do harm through your deep-throating preaching of your militant version of "christianity".

Quote is the first on the page of him hating on the illuminati when ironicly modern day freemasonry was a branch derived from the illumanti.

You realize that many quoted there are and were Freemasons; not all, but some of them were. Also Freemasonry is not derived from the Illuminati. You really don't know our history, what influenced us, how our rituals have evolved, and how we operate today.

Also who is "him"? George Washington? You didn't really make clear who you are talking about as your page has many men on it and I'm not going to make a response on a vague, unclear remark.

Please define for me what is "high Masons" and "low Masons". I always hear about these fabled high-level Masons, but anti-Masons seem very reluctant to define this.

I figured you guys were going to react the way you did when i mentioned William Schnoebelen.

He's a known liar and can be proven as false. Like I said, if you believe him then you deserve to be misled.

thank you for making it more clear on the testimony of your"brother" of your "fraternity"

Please, you've only posted nothing of proof, but rather the same garbage again and again.

John Quincy Adams former freemason.

He was never a Freemason

Albert Pike. Quote on top and middle (middle is more denouncing)

What's wrong with his quotes?

Got any more brillant scatterbrained accusations you want to throw at me?

I don't have to validate myself by tearing down others.

I love how all the masons could quote everything I wrote previously yet only one mason opposed to the idea of masonic enlightenment being a negative force.

I stand by my responses.

They take an oath to withhold all the secrets of freemasonry at any cost so they are going to try to lie you and trick you.

I have never lied in anything I've posted.

Never trust a mason.

So much hate, fear, and paranoia. Poor soul.

Youll get the overwhelming feeling of creepy old men child rapers and satanism as soon as you walk in.

I'm 28.

But I would definitly encourage you to try destroying what you can on the way out.

How Christian of you. Your proposing violence and criminal activity. Sad.

They have very expensive things in those lodges.

And what you break, you'll buy.

You are a very mean person.

reply to post by guanyu

Oh, you read me like a book.

I thought Masons welcomed honorable discourse between men, blah blah blah.

I was civil, but when I am kicked I don't just take it.

You're duplicitous because you present yourselves as enlightened when you're hostile, and often liars. I don't even think you realize it, though.

Oh, I'm not hostile. You haven't seen hostile. I post the information that is relevant and factual.

All I've ever said is I think the concept behind it is wrong.

And I disagreed.

reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog

We do hoard the secret to the best beer recipe ever!

reply to post by irishpackerfan68


Like, not even dude.

Here is the way it really is. You are coming into a party at 3am thinking you are fresh and exciting, but in reality everyone at the party already had fun. sobered up, and are looking for a ride home. We have done this all before, many, many times.

You bring lame old quotes from some Bible thumper website, claiming to know all kinds of secrets from men who may or may not have been involved with masonry, yet when real live masons who are active and involved are telling you the truth, you refuse to accept it.

I get the apprehension. Look up a few members who used to be anti-masons, much like yourself, and somewhere along the line, they grew a pair and decided to find out for themselves who was telling the truth.

Advisor is a super mod here. Go look up his early post history. It's all there. He joined and found out the real truth. Sauron, another moderator did the same thing, although he wasn't an anti masons, he just listened to both sides. (I think)

I have talked with Bill Shenobelen via e-mail. I spoke to men who were members of the lodge he claims to have been raised in. Nobody as of yet can verify his claims of even being a mason. And knowing how masonry works, he would have been expelled when he joined the clandestine rite of Memphis Misriam. He has a job where he makes money from folks like you believing his stories. The more fantastic the story, the better money he can bilk from your attention.

So waste your time if you like bringing all your links and quotes. We have seen them, debunked them, laughed at them, and repeated more times than you could count. If you don't believe me, try that fantastic button at the top right cleverly labeled "search".

God bless you and your quest for knowledge.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by guanyu

 

Oh, you read me like a book.

I thought Masons welcomed honorable discourse between men, blah blah blah.

I was civil, but when I am kicked I don't just take it.

You're duplicitous because you present yourselves as enlightened when you're hostile, and often liars. I don't even think you realize it, though.

Oh, I'm not hostile. You haven't seen hostile. I post the information that is relevant and factual.

All I've ever said is I think the concept behind it is wrong.

And I disagreed.

reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog

 

We do hoard the secret to the best beer recipe ever!

And it continues.

I have nothing more to add.

You've been a blast.

Truly exemplary example of the delightful scholars and philosophers you can enjoy spending time with at your local lodge.

Originally posted by guanyu
Read the text of the Bill of Rights and tell me with a straight face that was meant to protect organizations like Freemasonry.

It protects us from people who would want to do this:

Originally posted by guanyu
I don't have that much to say about Masonry, as I'm not invested in it, other than it should be abolished...

The abolishment of anything involves action by the government and as such it impinges on our rights of freedom to associate as decreed in the 1st Amendment. Our ability to freely associate has been upheld by the Supreme Court by several legal precedents which thankfully realizes that while you can have an unfavorable view of Masonry you can never have it abolished due to your viewpoint.

Is it or is it not an organization built on the foundation of mystery religions from the Bronze Age? Yes, it is.

Modern Masonry has very little to do with Bronze Age anything. I would like you to provide sources if you disagree.

Is it or is it not an accountable organization with complete transparency? No it is not.

My lodge has its minutes published in the local state university's library and are open for public inspection. We are also a 501.c.3 and as such must file a tax return every year.

Originally posted by nancyliedersdeaddog
When I read some of the links and comments posted on ats from these religious fanatics I feel so lucky I have nothing to do with the church. Btw I thought most mason secrets are just handshakes and rituals not the "secrets of the universe"

well there is that one secret about the meteor that was supposed to hit Russia, but we don't talk about that cuz it's secret.........um......oops!

reply to post by irishpackerfan68

Your sources and proof are pretty funny and bush league! I really hope you just used google and started picking random sites because if not you do know everything on the internet isn't true, right? Next time don't use people like Icke, Marrs, and religious nutjobs.

Originally posted by nancyliedersdeaddog
Btw I thought most mason secrets are just handshakes and rituals not the "secrets of the universe"

That is about it, five handshakes and five passwords.

reply to post by guanyu

What do you expect? I gave my responses and facts, and it was thrown back in my face.

You called us names and accused us, but when I respond you threw it back. You have shown no respect, but expect it return? Really?

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by guanyu

 

What do you expect? I gave my responses and facts, and it was thrown back in my face.

You called us names and accused us, but when I respond you threw it back. You have shown no respect, but expect it return? Really?

Did I ask for your respect?

No, I rolled my eyes at your petulance.

There's a difference.

Good day, sir.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by nancyliedersdeaddog
When I read some of the links and comments posted on ats from these religious fanatics I feel so lucky I have nothing to do with the church. Btw I thought most mason secrets are just handshakes and rituals not the "secrets of the universe"

well there is that one secret about the meteor that was supposed to hit Russia, but we don't talk about that cuz it's secret.........um......oops!

You better watch out because like irishpackerfan68 said they are going to cut off your finger now since you told me a secret haha! Seriously though If I used sources like some of the people on this site (as proof) I could prove the titanic was really an inside job done by the illuminati and the reason the ship shank wasn't because of an iceberg.

Originally posted by nancyliedersdeaddog

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by nancyliedersdeaddog
When I read some of the links and comments posted on ats from these religious fanatics I feel so lucky I have nothing to do with the church. Btw I thought most mason secrets are just handshakes and rituals not the "secrets of the universe"

well there is that one secret about the meteor that was supposed to hit Russia, but we don't talk about that cuz it's secret.........um......oops!

You better watch out because like irishpackerfan68 said they are going to cut off your finger now since you told me a secret haha! Seriously though If I used sources like some of the people on this site (as proof) I could prove the titanic was really an inside job done by the illuminati and the reason the ship shank wasn't because of an iceberg.

um...we don't discuss the boat in public. I hope you have time to edit out that comment before "they" come for you. Was that a knock at the door?

reply to post by guanyu

You said: "I thought Masons welcomed honorable discourse between men, blah blah blah." An honorable discourse requires respect from both sides. You did not treat us with respect so I will not give you any. If truth is petulant then I guess I am an irritable person.