A challenge for the Mason haters

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

No I would not have a problem with it, nor does it scare me. I know it is not the case, however.....

You KNOW this because.......how precisely? What in all honesty can you actually profess to "know" rather than surmise from (at best) second-hand sources?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I will be sending you a PM if you don't mind? Maybe this would be better without non-Christian Masons interjecting with things that look very questionable at best, and disastrous at worst.

Tally ho. I will address in as timely a manner as circumstance permits. However, if your 'question' is dishonest gainsaying, do expect a curt response

Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

No I would not have a problem with it, nor does it scare me. I know it is not the case, however.....

You KNOW this because.......how precisely? What in all honesty can you actually profess to "know" rather than surmise from (at best) second-hand sources?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I will be sending you a PM if you don't mind? Maybe this would be better without non-Christian Masons interjecting with things that look very questionable at best, and disastrous at worst.

Tally ho. I will address in as timely a manner as circumstance permits. However, if your 'question' is dishonest gainsaying, do expect a curt response

Fitz

Well at the very least I have first hand account that God responds to the name "Jesus" and "Lord", actually God seems to respond before the name even pops in your head sometimes though. I would have to say that other than that - your right I do not have 1st hand knowledge. I have something even more reliable than that; Faith!

I am not talking about voices in my head don't worry. That is very rare

Understood about the questions, don't worry my intent entering this thread was not to mock.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I ask any Christian Masons out there - IS THIS MAN A GOOD REPRESENTATION OF YOUR BROTHERHOOD!?

Augustus is a very intelligent man who is entitled to his opinions. He has presented his side of the issue.

reply to post by NarrowGate

VeritasAequitas is not a Mason.

Lucifer is not even mentioned in the original texts, and is misinterpreted as meaning Satan. That one passage in the Bible is referring to a king, not Satan. Lucifer turned into a name for Satan before his fall, but it is innacurate.

ROFL WOW do you people actually buy into this stuff!?

Well, St. Jerome mistranslated this Babylonian king in the 4th century.

"Satan was made up". OK Now that I know what freemasons teach as doctrine thanks...

This is not a Masonic doctrine.

reply to post by NarrowGate


First of all, I'm not a mason, I'm a theosophist. Secondly you are misinterpreting or twisting my statements. Moloch(Ech) is not about demon worship and was only in the bible due to the popularity of him in the Canaanite religion which your Yahweh was a part of. Because the bible said he is an evil demon, I mean just gosh it must be true...

He had nothing to do with sacrificing children, it was about taking away their fear. Fear is that creeping thing that binds you in the darkness. Fear is that thing God demands from you... Keep that I mind next time you are trying to work out who is the real demon. None of us, nada are worshipping entities of darkness. It is only your perception through the lens of religion that make you think so. Yes, Moloch was a god of wisdom, just like there were gods or many different things. Also note how I said he is a god of wisdom, not my god of wisdom.

This is not a Masonic doctrine.

Reading comprehension is key. Again, I'm not a mason, I simply study whatever I'd like.
Which while Ksig is right it is not part of Masonic doctrine, but it doesn't stop it from being true. Satan in the sense that you think is made up and doesn't exist. However, that satanic mentality does live on I'm the free willed human beings who can do evil just as much as good.

Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I ask any Christian Masons out there - IS THIS MAN A GOOD REPRESENTATION OF YOUR BROTHERHOOD!?

Augustus is a very intelligent man who is entitled to his opinions. He has presented his side of the issue.

reply to post by NarrowGate

 

VeritasAequitas is not a Mason.

Lucifer is not even mentioned in the original texts, and is misinterpreted as meaning Satan. That one passage in the Bible is referring to a king, not Satan. Lucifer turned into a name for Satan before his fall, but it is innacurate.

ROFL WOW do you people actually buy into this stuff!?

Well, St. Jerome mistranslated this Babylonian king in the 4th century.

"Satan was made up". OK Now that I know what freemasons teach as doctrine thanks...

This is not a Masonic doctrine.

Yeah, don't boost his ego any more than where it already is . He mocked me repeatedly while pushing the most dangerous belief possible on me.

Are you sure St. Jerome mistranslated? Are you sure it's not us that are misinterpreting? The reference was to the planet and the king. We are misinterpreting the translation is actually right. The planet, in the context it is used, described the king in some kind of indirect way(from what I remember, I should double check I guess but I am lazy). Regardless, Lucifer is not a name for Satan nor is it presented as one at any time in Scripture.


IDK why I thought he was a Mason.

reply to post by NarrowGate


I have no interest in what somebody is attempting to attribute or claim Jesus said such in such. I can ask him just fine for myself.

reply to post by NarrowGate


Even if I'm not a mason, do I really need to be to rebut your outrageous and sensational claims regarding these good friends of mine?

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

First of all, I'm not a mason, I'm a theosophist. Secondly you are misinterpreting or twisting my statements. Moloch(Ech) is not about demon worship and was only in the bible due to the popularity of him in the Canaanite religion which your Yahweh was a part of. Because the bible said he is an evil demon, I mean just gosh it must be true...

He had nothing to do with sacrificing children, it was about taking away their fear. Fear is that creeping thing that binds you in the darkness. Fear is that thing God demands from you... Keep that I mind next time you are trying to work out who is the real demon. None of us, nada are worshipping entities of darkness. It is only your perception through the lens of religion that make you think so. Yes, Moloch was a god of wisdom, just like there were gods or many different things. Also note how I said he is a god of wisdom, not my god of wisdom.

This is not a Masonic doctrine.

Reading comprehension is key. Again, I'm not a mason, I simply study whatever I'd like.
Which while Ksig is right it is not part of Masonic doctrine, but it doesn't stop it from being true. Satan in the sense that you think is made up and doesn't exist. However, that satanic mentality does live on I'm the free willed human beings who can do evil just as much as good.

edit on 9-12-2012 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

You must think you are talking to a complete fool.


You are free to think what you want. You can not believe in the Gospel, and fully understand the mystery of our Savior, without acknowledging the existence of Satan and the legion.

But enjoy that super secret hidden knowledge power up you think you have found in this game of life .

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

Even if I'm not a mason, do I really need to be to rebut your outrageous and sensational claims regarding these good friends of mine?

What claim is it that you are referring to????

reply to post by NarrowGate


That they either knowingly or unknowingly worship demons. Neither, they nor I do. But that's okay, keep taking my factual observations as my own beliefs, i.e. moloch being my god of wisdom, or that I worship lucifer, etc. you know nothing about my spiritual beliefs, so don't attempt to pry where you don't belong. It is none of your business, who or what masons believe and worship, because they are free to enjoy their own choice. It is none, zilch, nada of your business to sling around accusations about what they may or may not do.

reply to post by NarrowGate


And you must think you are talking to a sheep. Go on and do more research if you think you know more. Molech and yahweh were part of the same Caananite pantheon. So much for him being the only 'God'.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


Don't forget Yahweh's wife either!

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


Which accusation are you referring to?

to the rest of what you say: since you do not believe in Satan's literal existence it would be completely ridiculous for me to suggest that he may have inspired the works that you read to be written. No he has never ever ever done anything like that in history nope. You have it all figured out

IN FACT - He is just a symbol of evil that man created. Also, Catholics are pagans and The Father has a wife!!

Do you know who Sophia actually is? Holy Mary

Stop man stop it hurts to laugh that much.

WTF is a masonic T-Shirt?
Must be something else in the US, like a childrens play group.

Originally posted by moonrunner
WTF is a masonic T-Shirt?

Knock yourself out. (Almost 3000 products that come up when you try to buy a Masonic t-shirt on Cafe Press. Not all are actually Masonic, but hey, it's just a keyword search.)

reply to post by NarrowGate


I wasn't referring to 'Sophia' but it's interesting to know you think Mary lived for 3000 years before Christ was even born. Ludicrous.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

I wasn't referring to 'Sophia' but it's interesting to know you think Mary lived for 3000 years before Christ was even born. Ludicrous.

you must think the dimension of time is some kind of infallible Truth like Jesus or something.

The Queen of Heaven, IMHO, considering the graces she has brought to people in this world since her death, is likely not bound by time.

In fact, I have no evidence that we are either when it comes down to it. After you die, the rules change drastically I would imagine.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I came in this thread looking to prove nothing. All of your assertions are false.

You have provided no supporting evidence that refutes anything that I have said. You are merely arguing your opinion.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
He mocked me repeatedly while pushing the most dangerous belief possible on me.

I pushed no beliefs upon anyone. Please provide quotes to the contrary.

Are you sure St. Jerome mistranslated?

Positive, and Biblical scholars agree:

Lucifer
(Hebrew helel; Septuagint heosphoros, Vulgate lucifer)

The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.

The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yalal, "to lament"; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Isaiah 1.14), and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star. In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, De Angelis, III, iii, 4). Source

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
He mocked me repeatedly while pushing the most dangerous belief possible on me.

I pushed no beliefs upon anyone. Please provide quotes to the contrary.

Are you sure St. Jerome mistranslated?

Positive, and Biblical scholars agree:

Lucifer
(Hebrew helel; Septuagint heosphoros, Vulgate lucifer)

The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.

The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yalal, "to lament"; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Isaiah 1.14), and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star. In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, De Angelis, III, iii, 4). Source

Great information. I should read more often. While it is a trivial thing, it is as important as any detail.

I could provide quotes but I honestly don't feel like it. If one were inclined, they could go back a couple pages and read it themselves from my first post here. Unless you sincerely feel that I was unjustified in saying that....

I'm not a fan of picking apart quotes and making things look like something they are not; context is important.