The position of the sun has changed. I can see it.

I wonder if, as the fall/winter approaches, we will see threads about how the Sun is setting in the south?

Here's what I think is happening. en.wikipedia.org...

The thing I noticed about this is that three days later the sun appears normal and then you look at it again in a couple of days and it appears way up north again. I live south of Lake superior and that may have something to do with this refraction. I first noticed it in about 2009 after the light drought ended here. There are a lot of variables altering peoples perception of the position. Maybe there has been more changes to our atmosphere than we are being told. Geoengineering could cause this refraction if it is happening.

Originally posted by dainoyfb
reply to post by MamaJ

 

You are completely missing the point. Juleo is saying that all of the sky charts written years ago agree with where the sun and stars are now. If there was an unexpected change of the sun's or Earth's position then the old charts would not agree, but they do.

I'm sorry, I can't make it any simpler for you than that. If you can't understand this very simple concept then you really have no business debating it.

edit on 29-7-2012 by dainoyfb because: of typo.

If its the point you are making ...using stellarium then uh.....

Which " old charts"? Zodiac? If so, How old are we talking here?

Where is the sun at now and where was it long ago?

This needs clarification so nothing is misunderstood as you think me and juleo are in a misunderstanding....lol

As far as giving me debating advice... Thanks, but worry about you. I got me.

What you said above is not correct as far as ive read and understand if you are talking about the charts of the zodiac.

Sun is moving, it moves around 220 km/s around the center of our galaxy. Though we don't notice it. Only thing how Sun can either set too north or south is when Earth's axis changes. Also, Sun position is bit different daily, because Earth is always in different spot. Earth's axis changes very slowly and human life is not long enough to notice it. Earth is currently tilted as 23.4° and this stays very stable over long periods of time, it takes around 25,800 years from lowest tilt to highest. That is not big change, but causes some climate variations.

reply to post by crazyguy2012


I live in Floria too and watch the sun set almost every night. During the winter it sets to the left on my house then slowly moves across the sky and sets to the right on my house in the summer. I noticed last night it is on its way back for winter.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Here's what I think is happening. en.wikipedia.org...

The thing I noticed about this is that three days later the sun appears normal and then you look at it again in a couple of days and it appears way up north again. I live south of Lake superior and that may have something to do with this refraction. I first noticed it in about 2009 after the light drought ended here. There are a lot of variables altering peoples perception of the position. Maybe there has been more changes to our atmosphere than we are being told. Geoengineering could cause this refraction if it is happening.

I havent noticed any changes, however I cannot put others beneath me because they have seen something I havent. Im just not wired that way.

My grandmother has noticed changes with our sun as well and the woman has knowledge so I wouldnt discount her claim either. Lol

There is a lot going on in regards to solar system, sun, new discoveries and discoveries that are baffling scientists....Trying to figure out the why and whats going on up there in space, coupled with taking care of kids... Keeps me slammed. Lol

Its all about perception, I think, so im leaning toward reflection of water.... Otherwise it would have to do with precession?? i just dont know.

The sun is i think where it should be but observers are not all lying.... I know my grandmother isnt. She has farmed her 85 yrs.... She should know if anythings changed and she says it has. So... I dunno.

Originally posted by Thebel
Sun is moving, it moves around 220 km/s around the center of our galaxy. Though we don't notice it. Only thing how Sun can either set too north or south is when Earth's axis changes. Also, Sun position is bit different daily, because Earth is always in different spot. Earth's axis changes very slowly and human life is not long enough to notice it. Earth is currently tilted as 23.4° and this stays very stable over long periods of time, it takes around 25,800 years from lowest tilt to highest. That is not big change, but causes some climate variations.

Ive quoted so much from credible links saying the same thing... However its not gotten me far in this tnread at all. Lol i have no idea why... Maybe people are not reading the quotes or the links. ??

Because the oceans are rising may have something to do with it.... I just do t know what else it could be, however like I said to another poster.... Im not going to put myself on a pedestal and say i dont see it... You all are liars. Lol my own grandmother notices stuff like that and I have no idea what it could be other than precession or water??

Ice age anyone? Lol

reply to post by SoulSearching8


Wow, I need some more coffee. The sun doesn't set ON my house. Sets to left and right OF my house.

reply to post by DelMarvel


First Thanks for everyone's interest in this subject. At least I know I am not alone in my wonder... Second as to GPS. GPS relies on satelites. I do not know if the earth has shifted or if it is wobbling whether that would cause the satellites to move as well. Also, I am not positive but I do not see why the GPS satellites could be quickly corrected to account for changes in orbit, rotation, etc. I would assume that sattelite positions, orbits, etc change.

Also, I never really told anyone about my past experience. I have over thirteen years in the military. I have learned a lot about land navigation using the old fashined method, with a compas, also with dead reconning, as well as GPS. In my many many many days, weeks, and months in the field I have gotten numerous bad GPS readings. I have had my GPS off by as much as 100 meters at times. Quite often the GPS reading would be at least +/- 5 meters. From my experience looking at the stars if you are five meters off from where you think you are supposed to be then all of your bearings will be thrown off.

That is why we teach soldiers how to use a compass first. Then once you ahve that down you can use a GPS.

I have also had experiences using vehicle GPS whereby the GPS will show me driving in a field or through a building when in fact I am on the road. Although I have not used GPS in quite a while.

I think the scientific method is the best way to figure this out. But not the science of others who claim to know.. We all should check this out for ourselves.

I suggest we all do this:

1. Get a compass.
2. Pick a fixed position where you have a good view of the western sky. Or eastern sky if you can..
3. Mark a specific spot. With a rock, tape, rope, or something that will not move. If you move a few feet your observations will be afftected.
4. Pick identifiable landmarks such as trees, buildings, light poles, flag poles...
5. Try to identify a landmakr that is exactly due west. Try to identify a landmark that is due north. If you can try to identify the position of other landmarks. You will then have to identify anything that might throw your perception off. For example a crooked tree may alter your perception. Also you are likely to assume that a flag pole or lightpole would be perfectly straight but if it is leaning at all it could affect your observations. It is impossible for me to describe everything that would affect your observations... clouds, rain, etc... The level of the ground on which you are standing... But try to avoid anything that might throw you off.. Also if using a compass remember it is magnetic and can potential be thrown off by nearby magnetic sources.
6. Track the position of the sun as it sets (or rises if you are facing east).
7. We then have to compare to the official position. and historical positions.

Then we have to figure out what all that means...

reply to post by DelMarvel


Also you mention satellite TV. Have you ever had it? I was always needing to adjust my satellite. Or just having to sit and wait for it to come back on. Sometimes it was the rain, wind, etc. But sometimes it would just appear to be off on clear calm sunny days...

Hello OP and everyone....
I haven't been watching the sun, but I have been watching the moon.
I sit outside when I smoke, and I'm on a balcony which means that I have a framed rectangle of sky that I can see....and my perspective is always the same. (facing south)
This last week I started paying attention to where the moon was, how early I could see it, etc. (at the same times each day).
One afternoon at 3 pm the moon was visible directly in front of me. By 8 pm it was so far to the west that it was out of my viewing area. The next day I couldn't see it until early evening, and it was "lower" in the sky than the previous night....and farther west.
The next couple of nights, around 8 p.m. the moon was "lower" and more to the east (my left).
This may sound silly to some, but in just one week I noticed both where and when it was visible to me (from my constant seat).....and it was never in the same place twice.
jacygirl
P.S. I also am one of those who believes that the sun is whiter and much hotter than previous years.
(I am situated in sw Ontario Canada....nestled in the Great Lakes).

reply to post by crazyguy2012


Let's see- the earth wobbles as it rotates, it goes around the sun (and I do not think it is a perfect circle, more like an ellipse), You have atmospheric conditions, the sun doing it's OWN rotation, The moon revolving around us, and tugging on us... PLUS, this is a natural progression, not a mechanical system (like a clock). expect a little variation.


I'd be worried if the thing rose and set in the exact same position all the time, myself.

Originally posted by jacygirl
Hello OP and everyone....
I haven't been watching the sun, but I have been watching the moon.
I sit outside when I smoke, and I'm on a balcony which means that I have a framed rectangle of sky that I can see....and my perspective is always the same. (facing south)
This last week I started paying attention to where the moon was, how early I could see it, etc. (at the same times each day).
One afternoon at 3 pm the moon was visible directly in front of me. By 8 pm it was so far to the west that it was out of my viewing area. The next day I couldn't see it until early evening, and it was "lower" in the sky than the previous night....and farther west.
The next couple of nights, around 8 p.m. the moon was "lower" and more to the east (my left).
This may sound silly to some, but in just one week I noticed both where and when it was visible to me (from my constant seat).....and it was never in the same place twice.
jacygirl

Good observation skills. The moon is by far the fastest changing astronomical object. In the old days when ships needed to use it for finding their location, special charts had to be developed before the trip becaue the moon although predictable and constant was the only object that didn't move in an intuitive way.

You will find that it always lags behind it's location of the previous day by a substantial distance in the sky.

reply to post by RobinB022

But me and others here have explained and proved that this theory is complete and utter bull.
Again you guys prove that you are a bunch of sheep that ignores facts and logic.
You guys seems so bored that you have to delude yourself that axis has changed, when several people here proved that it has not.

And you know very well that my rude post was after explaining the same thing over and over again while being completely ignored.
I also said I was sorry about that.

Some people here even use the moon as evidence, even though moon normally has and always will change position from one day to the next due to how it orbits around earth.

Originally posted by Thebel
Sun is moving, it moves around 220 km/s around the center of our galaxy. Though we don't notice it. Only thing how Sun can either set too north or south is when Earth's axis changes. Also, Sun position is bit different daily, because Earth is always in different spot. Earth's axis changes very slowly and human life is not long enough to notice it. Earth is currently tilted as 23.4° and this stays very stable over long periods of time, it takes around 25,800 years from lowest tilt to highest. That is not big change, but causes some climate variations.

Not to mention that the tilt has been decreasing over the last thousands of years and will do so for quite some time.
Which is exactly the opposite of what the blind believers in this thread claim to have been observing.

I wonder if these people who claim it changed even observed it at same time of the year.. There can be big difference between lets say june and august.

reply to post by MamaJ


We can't discount what the old people say. They have been around for a long time. We can try to figure out what they perceive though and investigate the possibilities. Refraction deals with crystals or liquids. If the air has more moisture in it than it will change the direction of light. The more metals disolved in the water the more the refraction. Look at something in a lake from an angle and you will see what I mean. Our atmosphere is sort of a plasma and contains many frozen crystals. Our air is a plasma also. The air is made of many elements and varies everywhere. I do not know if the track I am on is right or partly right. I have noticed that the sun does appear farther north than it used to in the summer but it appears right at midday.

An older gentleman says that the sun in the summer is where it used to be above a tower, facing southerly, two hours later at two o'clock instead of 12 o'clock. He has been sitting in the same location in his living room for fifty years and sits down after lunch to watch TV. He eats around eleven to eleven thirty and habit has him watching TV around 12. I can't verify his perception because I have not been looking at the noon sun, just the sunrises and sunsets. Some sites say our wobble mysteriously disappeared in 2008. What's that all about?

reply to post by dainoyfb


Thank you for that! I wasn't aware that the moon's position changed.....
It's funny what you notice when you start paying close attention to something.
So many of us are watching the sky lately.....feeling that something is "off" or different.
jacygirl

Thank you for that! I wasn't aware that the moon's position changed.....
It's funny what you notice when you start paying close attention to something.
So many of us are watching the sky lately.....feeling that something is "off" or different.

Translate...

"I don't have a clue as to the relationship of the sun, earth and moon or their motions but I know something is off".

Sounds about right...

reply to post by roadgravel


Pretty much!
But if you're mocking me....at least I'm not pretending to be an expert. Just someone participating in a discussion, and offering my own experiences.
(maybe I'll just have a lurking day today)
jacygirl

Originally posted by crazyguy2012
reply to post by isyeye

 

I understand that and I also have a very good sense of direction. The position of the sun changes constantly. It is more to the south during the winter and more to the north in summer. But to me it seems like it is about ten degrees to far north than it should be. Maybe fifteen degrees off... It seems to be a little too far north.

I am a constant skywatcher and I have seen many sunsets. The suns position doesn't seem right for the end of july...

If I had measured it using a compass on July 28 of last year and compared it to this year I am sure it would be much more north right now. But since I never predicted this would happen I cannot prove it. But it doesn't seem to be right.

I think the difference should be more noticeable the more north or south you are. Either way not sure this would end life or anything like that. It just seems like it would cause a very rapid change. areas that were cold will be hot, hot cold, dry will be wet, wet areas will become deserts.

I am not sure I posted this in the right area. This isn't a psychic prediction. Just a prediction based upon my observations.

"But to me it seems like it is about ten degrees to far north than it should be. Maybe fifteen degrees off... It seems to be a little too far north. "

I would like to postulate a crazy theory that many find uncomfortable when I describe it to them. Years ago, while researching things that made Terrence McKenna go bump in the night, .. well, after a particularly fantastic night of exploration I awoke the next day to see the sun had shifted what had seemed like 30-35 degrees to the south. I used to ride my bike to work toward the east in the mornings to open the store & I'd notice where the sun was every day,.. this day I speak of, it was somewhere else completely.

Later that day I heard a Pink Floyd song being played that I had heard a least 10,000 times before in my life. I'm a musician who can analyze a chord sequence based on solfage & I have a pretty good grounding & focus/interest in analyzing my favorite popular musics. Now,. that day, this Pink Floyd song had a string arrangement that was beautiful - in a section of the song that I was expecting no strings & more of them just doing their shared space they naturally had. & I felt very weird because it was Comfortably Numb, a song we know in the mass consciousness & here were these boldly stated, gorgeously arranged string lines happening at a certain point in the song that I had previously expected to hear more,.. just more space.

So between the two events & some reading I was doing at the time, I came to accept what made the most sense to me.... I had somehow, shifted my subjective reality to a near identical copy of the world I was vibrating on the previous day. I believe in alternate universes, multi-verses & quantum theory, so it all gets pretty heady, but basically I think sometimes, willingly or not,.. we kinda, quantum-leap to an alternate timeline/reality etc. It probably happens more often than we realize and we just aren't remembering the major differences in those "new to us" realities. They just become more of the background data that builds that variation of the program, if you will..

People always ask me,.."so when you woke up the next day, the sun was back in the right place, right?" often with a noticeably nervous look on their faces. "Nope, I just kept on trucking in the new world, it never went back, at least not obviously to me at any point"

That really bothers some people.

So, IF my theory has any validity, you could be waking up & seeing it in an entirely new position, IF you happened to have woken up in sector 89Pl#A5.Q instead of your normally scheduled 89Pk#A5.P reality.

It's happened a few other times in my life,.. I don't sweat it. One time I had lunch with my mom & she was shocked when I told her how much I hated onions as a kid, she acted like she had never heard me say it. Maybe THAT mom never heard the other me say that, but I'm here now & he's somewhere else & who in the heck are you lady???? But you know what? I love all my mammas!!!

Love is all you need