Elliot lake, Ontario Mall Collapse- Survivors trapped, Rescue Abandoned

Update:

1 body recovered to date. 12 people still unaccounted for. Rescue efforts continue. It's pretty unlikely there will be any survivors.


news.sympatico.ctv.ca... onfirm_one_body_removed_from_elliot_lake_mall/a59429e0

Earthquake survivors have lasted weeks....I hope for the peoples sake there are some more live ones pulled out.....
Its definately possible, so no point giving up yet........

Originally posted by Loon3yToOns
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

a very primitive statement nonetheless. enjoy your heaven after wasting your.....i guess life

edit on 27-6-2012 by Loon3yToOns because: (no reason given)

reply to post by BobAthome

 

read my whole post, especially the puppy one maybe you'll get it if not i can't put it in easier terms than those, sorry.

edit on 27-6-2012 by Loon3yToOns because: (no reason given)

Laugh and scoff all you like but the truth is if there's a disaster and you're in need of rescuing and no one else will risk their life to save yours because their as selfish as you, it will be a christian that risks and possibly gives his life to save yours.

We can do this because we do not fear death. Death is victory for my people because we can go home. There is no greater honor than to die in the name of our King.

Originally posted by sizzlean
I can go at least three weeks without water, and just got through doing a good month so I know what I'm saying.

BS. Be serious. In a survival situation the longest verified time a person or group of people have gone without water is 8 days. If you are eating or drinking other fluids, then yes you are getting water from those sources.

Dude, if you went a month without eating or drinking anything then you should get that verified by Guiness and you will be famous.

What a joke. Seriously.

Well I hope for some of you who live in Ontario that we don't experience some natural disaster, because the Ministry of Labor will determine when it is ok to try and rescue you.....

I intend to help out people in my neighborhood.

Also, why it take days to get heavy equipment up there?

reply to post by omegafire
This has to be the most ignorant post I ever read anywhere. I had to creat an account just to reply. Your whole life you have been wondering about my country? Take 5 minutes and do some research and you will see that we are rich with history where bravery and strength are evident. Why dont you hear anything about Canada? Unfortunately a great number of your fellow country men could care less about a nation of peace keepers who want nothing to do with with the likes of people like you. You are too busy constantly boasting about how great you were in the most recent pissing match to listen so we just smile and nod politely because we know our strength. We dont need to go around the world beating our chests, our hands are too busy reaching out to others. Im a northerner and Id wager my lilttle sister is 10x tougher than most of the men you know. Come and see the country for yourself and dont worry we will treat you with respect even when your whining like a sissy about how cold it is. Elliott Lake has a population of about 20,000 in a rural area and the entire country is praying for the people of this town. I dont know the specifics as to why resue efforts may have been called off but I assure you there was a sound reason. Hardened northern men from a mining town do not lack courage as you so say. This country is full of people tough as nails with hearts as big as the country itself.

Thedman, so in this situation "The debris impacting a limb or body part cutting off the oxygen to the area result in tissue death Releasing it causes the toxins to flood back into body - can cause cardiac arrest", what do YOU do. Do you wait for a few days for some one whos never been in danger to say its ok or do you think for a few minutes and get the right supplies and save the person within 2 hours? Also, "If find a victim you do not simply drag them out unless in severe danger of further injury", so no one enters the building because they are in severe danger of injury/death, yet, the trapped people are about to die, I think that calls for dragging them out ASAP. Unless you find rubble that has made a house of cards around some one and not harmed them, waiting IS going to kill people. This is what us "trolls" have a problem with, if its a damnd if you do, damnd if you don't situation, waiting WILL kill them, trying might kill them.

On 911, if they had the same wait and assess orders, they would have all lived. How ever, how many people did they save because they didn't wait and which way was the right way?

reply to post by salmoneggs


Well said, salmoneggs. Welcome to the site. Don't be put off by some members here. Look around and stay awhile and you will meet some good people from all over.

Now, here is a serious story about the incident. The latest update:

www.cbc.ca...

But tough questions from the media and townspeople focused on the Monday setback, in which the rescue attempt was called off because of the threat posed by a precarious piece of concrete that Neadles said weighed "3,000 to 4,000 pounds."

Neadles described in dramatic detail how his team had to retreat after coming close to a person who was trapped but could not proceed because a massive piece of concrete threatened to crash down on his crew.

"We had an individual who is now trapped in a very serious amount of heavy concrete," he said. "We were in a precarious position. I have 37 men to bring home to their families. I hope you understand what I had to do."

"These men are professional police officers, firefighters and emergency medical paramedics ... that you thought we were going to pack up and go home. That was devastating," said Neadles. "We would stay another four to five weeks if we had to."

reply to post by TheComte


Sampoong department store collaspe 1995

en.wikipedia.org...

Choe Myeong Seok 최명석 (30· male), rescued after 11 days

Yoo Ji Hwan 유지환 (27· female), rescued after 13 days

Park Seung Hyun 박승현 (19· female), rescued after 17 days

The last to be rescued, 19-year-old Park Seung Hyun (박승현; 朴勝賢), was pulled from the wreckage 17 days after the collapse with a few scratches. She said that she heard the sounds of other survivors drowning in the fire department's deflation water.

Survivors were able to drink water from rain and from fire department hoses

reply to post by XL5

Thedman, so in this situation "The debris impacting a limb or body part cutting off the oxygen to the area result in tissue death Releasing it causes the toxins to flood back into body - can cause cardiac arrest",

In case of crush syndrome like this can either apply constriction band (tourniquet) or MAST trousers (inflatable
pants used to prevent shock )

In extreme cases if limb too far gone and no other way to save person you do a field amputation.....

In each case must carefully assess and monitor patient

As said by others must carefully peel back rubble and shore it up to prevent additonal collapses...

Case of ignorant reporters looking for emotional "hook" for story making rescue crews look callous.......

reply to post by salmoneggs


Welcome to ATS, try not to fall for troll bait. (and even if it wasn't a troll post and the poster actually believed it, just ignore it anyway)

Originally posted by SGTSECRET

Originally posted by GardenParty
Oh no this is so awful!

I am sending positive energy towards the people who have been affected by this. I feel in my heart that most of the people will be found safe and sound. The lord takes care of his souls!

if you mean mass murdering with a flood and sending you to a lake of fire if you don't live how he wants you to...than sure, he takes care of people.

tell that to all the people dying of cancer right now, look them in the eye and say, 'lord is taking care of you.'

I know you didn't mean to, but you made me laugh.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Loon3yToOns
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

a very primitive statement nonetheless. enjoy your heaven after wasting your.....i guess life

edit on 27-6-2012 by Loon3yToOns because: (no reason given)

reply to post by BobAthome

 

read my whole post, especially the puppy one maybe you'll get it if not i can't put it in easier terms than those, sorry.

edit on 27-6-2012 by Loon3yToOns because: (no reason given)

Laugh and scoff all you like but the truth is if there's a disaster and you're in need of rescuing and no one else will risk their life to save yours because their as selfish as you, it will be a christian that risks and possibly gives his life to save yours.

We can do this because we do not fear death. Death is victory for my people because we can go home. There is no greater honor than to die in the name of our King.

Glad to hear that.

Now make sure you tell the government that when you vote for the next warmonger. Fortunately for you we will be fighting Muslims from now on mixed with a smidgen of Russian and a smattering of Chinese and Korean. Turns out not too many Christians in those places and those idiots think they are right too.

According to them you guys are f'd up and their God is the only one. They don't agree about Jesus at all and none of the other religions do either. So apparently the latest religion is the greatest religion.

reply to post by onecraftydude

Now make sure you tell the government that when you vote for the next warmonger. Fortunately for you we will be fighting Muslims from now on mixed with a smidgen of Russian and a smattering of Chinese and Korean. Turns out not too many Christians in those places and those idiots think they are right too.

I do not vote, not for anyone, warmonger or otherwise.

My suspicions of negligence on the part of the mall owner has been verified. Former staff say owner attempted to fix roof problems "on the cheap." Blame for the tragedy falls squarely on the shoulders of Bob Nazarian.

www.cbc.ca...

Investigators are still trying to determine what caused a deadly roof collapse at an Elliot Lake, Ont., mall, but a former mall manager says the owner was aware of ongoing problems with the roof and failed to follow through on expert advice on how to repair it.

"We had the opportunity to do it up right, but he chose to do it on the cheap, or not at all."

reply to post by TheComte


Maybe, maybe not.

From your source:

Nazarian's lawyer said Thursday that the work that was done according to manufacturers' specifications and the mall was inspected on a regular basis.

If Nazarian actually has certified reports stating that the roof is safe, he is not liable.

The inspector(s) would be.

I, personally, think that those reports (if they are ever publicised) will not be certified...but, that could just be me.

Something definitely is fishy, the city hall doesn't want to release the last inspection report, and in an interview the mayor seemed to be pushing a "lets move on" attitude. I still want to know who called it off, when there were professionals on the scene who wanted to keep on working, why they had to get equipment from Toronto (is there a contract / union involvement?) and why it took days.

No one wants to take the blame for the screw ups that occurred, everyone wants to sweep it under the table and move on. Bet the fiance of that poor woman doesn't want to move on. This is like the G20, all the politicians will say ya lots of us screwed up, but lets move on.

Seems like if you in the government, your not held accountable for anything.

Being raised in Elliot Lake, I saw the mall built and problems arose from the start... This has been an ongoing thing and on my last visit ,there were pails catching water from the roof. It was built in the wrong place and many fingers were crossed.This was originally a mining town and had a mine rescue that had tackled circumstances that were rougher than this. If they had contacted the Sudbury Mine rescue , it would have been cleared up much faster...
Having worked 4000ft underground and been around some really bad situations, this would have been a cake walk.
The efforts fo the Elliot Lake residents in this situation was to take care of the affected ones and allow the teams to do the work to recover what they could for the victims. I applaud everyone's efforts and all the ones who made calls to all former Lakers to share the news. Peace!

reply to post by ionsoul


You are talking about Stanrock (Uranium)

My father worked there from opening till closing (blaster) and I grew up in Sudbury so I am familiar with mine rescue and the dangers involved but that didn't stop rescuers from going in. They have knowledge of how to shore up collapse zones and this mall rescue is a much safer scenario than a mine where water seeping into rock causes "rock bursts" where even urinating on the wall would cause the quartz to explode

I am not there though so I don't know about how precarious the zone is but imo it isn't beyond our capability to even drive a vehicle in to prevent total collapse and give the concrete and the floor a buffer zone that would at least get the rescuers closer to the victims. Even a crane can support sections but the cost of losing a 100k vehicle is too much to risk I guess.

I don't think it is as easy as that though because the main concern seems to be a cascade kind of collapse where it all comes down.

The builder and owner probably need layers but in the corporate world justice doesn't work that way.

My father and his partner worked at Falconbridge (Sudbury area) and being as experienced as they were they saw a hazard and even commented it was time to take a vacation and sure enough there was a collapse with fatalities. The shift bosses didn't want to hear of it.

Corporate homicide imo but there was no liability other than death benefits to family members.

Wonderful world we live in where the bottom line isn't safety but profit margin and if this mall was repaired (even built) sub-standard to code then there should be accountability.

It will take years before all the legal wrangling plays out though....

reply to post by peck420


Sounds like a standard statement when they know a lawsuit is coming soon.

He's already hiding behind a lawyer.