Elliot lake, Ontario Mall Collapse- Survivors trapped, Rescue Abandoned

Originally posted by mrballistic
American firefighters and first responders would still go on and get these poor people out.. Even good

samaritans, even the family of the lost, hell I would be in their if it was my family no matter what!

Shame on this wussy government, and there pansy stance and weakness

I dont agree, It may be that going in before a plan is establish could cause further collapse, and more loss of life. Rushing in there like the Lone Ranger might not be the smart thing to do. They are probably waiting for the proper equipment.

The area is to volatile for heavy cranes. They need some skyhook/skycrane helicopters to lift the large debris off.
There has to be a military base close that has this equipment, also they are in lumber country, and those machines are used alot there as well.

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
reply to post by CB328

 

If I chose to risk my life in such a manner, I shouldn't be stopped by someone else. If they closed down the site and didn't allow those who would volunteer to find the trapped, when they were not going to? I'd have a huge problem with that.

I would too, but I have a huge problem with government anyway. There is always someone to stop you when they have other "People" paid to do that. Job security and it has nothing to do with public service. Those people trapped in the rubble are just screwed because the people in charge are puzzies. They are worried about lawyers and lawsuits guaranteed.

Maybe they should look for volunteers at the nearest prison? Ask those are locked away for tax evasion or drug possession (non violent offenders) if they'd like to earn parole by risking their lives to save others'?

The community could step up too...
Volunteer and we wipe out your bar tab.
Volunteer and we'll guarantee auto financing.
Volunteer and get a case of beer.

I'm not that creative, but I'm sure there are other incentives that would push someone over the edge that was already considering volunteering for nothing.

I can see now where the world is becoming worthless as humanity now protects themselves, over the risk of another's dire need for safety..

Reminds me of horror stories whereupon police watched a girl drown because they were not "authorized" to help, or where rescue people pulled immediate triage on a victim drowning in a lack frozen over, because they said they did not have the gear, or where firefighters now would rather watch a home burn, rather then put it out, for fear of being sued...

Everybody now like this world of P.C. and liberalism do we?...

When you work as a "servant" of the public, in both protection and assistance, you are "DEMANDED" to lay down your life in the services of others, not asked, but "expected"...

Now Canada shows that they would rather play politics and perform battlefield triage for those who "NEED" their assistance..

Ever read and understood how horrible a way it is to die from thirst?... In the end your tongue swells up, cutting off your oxygen, and you die in horrible agony and pain...

THIS!!, is the fate they were giving to those still trapped, and were actually ready to walk off, until the debate went viral, and the only reason police are there now, is to protect the rescue workers for being so callous and uncaring to the service of others, they know what they did was wrong, and that they are responsible for each and every one of those deaths...

The blood is now on their hands, and it will never wash off, because when the survivors of those trapped in there find our they were intentionally left there to die, to literally die of thirst, the lawsuits will mount, and heads will be demanded to roll..

The one rule in the services of others was "broken".. and that rule is: "Others before self"...

Their hell is about to become more real then they ever could have imagined, because they "stopped" and cared more for themselves, then for others...

Originally posted by CB328
If they say it's dangerous I'm sure it is. Why risk more lives needlessly?

If they say jump you probably say how high, too, right?

The government digs its own men and women out of all kinds of dangerous disasters all the time, but fact is they don't wanna risk the lives and fancy equipment of their top dogs on a few lowly civilians. If those civilians had a few tonnes of crude oil in their pockets you bet your ass they'd be in there digging them out with everything they've got.

Why the f# are malls collapsing anyway? Is there such a high demand for consumer HQs that they're skimping on building regulations?

reply to post by nightbringr


well if u actually look at the Charter of Rights and Freedoms,, also P.E.T,,,
did u know that if u are "detained" in any way,,any way at all,,,u get
a very good piece of Law from that Charter.
read it and see if u can spot the ,, "well i never knew that"
thks P. E. Trudeau
Should be taught in Schools,, u would think.

Originally posted by TheAnarchist

The government digs its own men and women out of all kinds of dangerous disasters all the time, but fact is they don't wanna risk the lives and fancy equipment of their top dogs on a few lowly civilians. If those civilians had a few tonnes of crude oil in their pockets you bet your ass they'd be in there digging them out with everything they've got.

Got any actual cases to back up this claim?

Why the f# are malls collapsing anyway?

Waht oteh malls have collapsed?

Is there such a high demand for consumer HQs that they're skimping on building regulations?

this one seems to have been opened in the early 1980's, and has had issues with water leakage and mold in the roof, so it looks like problems with design and/or build.

Originally posted by Ilyich
reply to post by mrballistic

 

You are aware of the numbers of canadian volunteers that put their lives on the line to pull your asses out of the rubble right? Oh no that's right, you are american. Lack of education and you act before you think. 24 canadian deaths on that day unrelated to the impact, .......

edit on 6/26/2012 by Ilyich because: (no reason given)

Thank you.

Pretty sad story and a nightmarish way to go buried alive like that. Let's hope they get the building stabalized quickly so they can get those people out before it's to late. The clock is ticking.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul



I'm with you on this one. It's like the case of a lifeguard who can either choose to enter dangerous waters to try to save someone, or wait until more help arrives so that two people don't end up dead.

Did they say they were just going to abandon them permanently? That is what the title implies. If they only mean to wait until they can do it more safely at a later time, then that is completely different an understandable. The title could read "rescue put on hold." I would imagine they will come back for the people once they assess the situation more. The news blogger is probably just exaggerating. That would be my guess since they do that all the time.

"Rescue put on hold" doesn't even nearly carry the same shock value as "abandoned." I bet they will go back for people.

The Ottawa based charity response group was asked to help, only to be turned away. Now he's wondering if the response is getting too political
Dr. John Green, Managing Director of P.R.E.P. International Rescue (famous for their response to the Earth Quake in Haiti and other disasers)

www.640toronto.com...


Radio recording:

www.640toronto.com...

Listen to hour 1 and hour 3.

reply to post by nightbringr


I'm an American and I have to agree with most of your statement although Katrina was clearly a beta test for something larger hopefully not coming this year.

I see it from both ways. Attempt to save 20 lives but risk dozens more or let 20 die and save dozens. It's hard. Usually when people are asked the question, "would you kill thousands to save millions?" they answer hoping they never face the situation. The situation is here, so would you kill the thousands?

I would find a way to help. I would try. Supply food, water, and first aid kits to the wounded knowing I could fall in. Hold a hand, hug the family. Maybe even just talk to the people trapped. I'm not strong enough to pull people out of rubble but I can calm them while others try. But I'm too far away and can't make it in time for the people to still be alive. I can only hope someone else would do this for me.

Originally posted by CB328
If they say it's dangerous I'm sure it is. Why risk more lives needlessly?

Would you say the same thing if it was YOUR daughter trapped in there?

Didn't think so.

Unfortunately for those stuck in the rubble, we here in Ontario have the ministry of labor, so they probably are waiting for a roll of caution tape to arrive from the toronto office so no one stubs their toe.

What a joke this is. I am ashamed to be CDN, they called off the rescue effort and then the whole town was up in arms so they came back, meanwhile that poor sod under the rubble has very likely expired since the roof fell on them on saturday it's now tues, they are going to start dismantling the entire mall to get to the spot where the potential survivor(s) are.

Originally posted by omegafire
I know nothing about their government, policies, or anything about Canada. However I'm sure that every Canadian knows all their is to know about America. Why is that?

Simple answer, really. The quality of Canada's education system is far and above that of the USA.

And, I find it quite humourous that you are bragging about knowing nothing.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by CB328
If they say it's dangerous I'm sure it is. Why risk more lives needlessly?

Would you say the same thing if it was YOUR daughter trapped in there?

Didn't think so.

You know what. If it were my daughter trapped in there, and those guys have their own daughters, and they didn't want to help, that would be fine with me. But the first guy that tried to stop me from digging would probably end up stabbed with a shovel!

I don't blame people for not risking their own lives. We all have responsibilities. I might not want to dig in a dangerous situation for a stranger, because I want to be around for my own kids. BUT blocking access and refusing to let volunteers dig is outrageous!

Sorry but the Canuks are a bunch of candy-asses. American's sent hundreds of firemen into buildings hit by airliners but they went in anyway because it's what they had to do. This doesn't surprise me. A bunch of liberal, socialist sissies.

im going to piss a lot of people off but you know what... that stupid mexican woman should just move back to mexico if its that much better there...im sure thats y she moved to canada...
firstly you don't sacrifice lives to save other lives...same amount of emotional damage...just different people that are dead.
secondly, if that loser says on tv that "they can't #ing give up" then i invite him to go save her himself if he's so brave..ill even slide the red carpet between the two cardinal points.
and last but not least, i read on the first page a comment that said "the lord watches over all of his souls" or some dumb # like that...apparently it never occured to the person posting that, that maybe the all mighty lord that he/she so strongly believes in kind of just ... maybe ... forgot that there were other souls ...im sorry...where's that lord of yours for those people? im sure he didnt forget about them, he prolly just miscalculated...its life...# happens...you deal, and you use your brain. you dont like it, do it yourself dont argue on tv that other people won't save ur woman for you because you're not man enough to just tell everyone to # off and let you help her yourself. sorry mate, you've been royally #ed by your own government's laws in that case, because you were trained to be a good puppy and now oh look ... puppy didnt get his treat. grow the heck up.
personal opinion above lol ... i would never sacrifice lives to save other lives...maybe im not evolved enough or not a good puppy, but to me that makes absolutely no sense, has no logic, benefits nobody in the long run...because people die anyways...some sooner some later...im done.
troll away