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Illegal's Get Huge Government IRS Checks - forget the tax REFUND part... Caution: Blood Boiler,

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posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by HandyDandy
reply to post by loueber
 


Please. If they spent half the effort to reform their crap countries that they do trying to get here, they wouldn't need to travel to begin with.

And please don't give me that sh*t about how hard their life is. Life is hard for most of us. Do you see me stealing?



Right, and wouldnt life be easier if you could claim 20 kids and get a 29,000 check from gov? It would sure help me quite bit.

Helping them is one thing, but letting them abuse our system is another thing entirely.




posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
But until people get fed up and come together, stop blaming the results of the problems and start asking questions and demanding answers to the roots of the problems, things will only get worse.


I'm sorry but the root of this problem is not the child dependant laws. It is the illegals who are doing something illegal. Just like if I were to do the same thing.



Correct me if i'm wrong but would it not be impossible for a US citizen to get away with this? We need to provide a valid SSN for every qualifying child claimed. But if you and all your "qualifying" dependents are here illegally, you would have no SSN, therefore the entire validation process becomes impossible. Anyone i claim actually has to be a qualifying dependant and cannot be claimed by more than one person.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by loueber
reply to post by HandyDandy
 


how many headless corpses were found in the woods next to your home? made up of young girls refusing to prostitute? and teen boys that refused to join the drug cartels?


I live in DC...the murder capitol of the USA. I would say lots......

They did find Chandra Levy almost in my back yard........


Chandra Ann Levy (April 14, 1977 – c. May 1, 2001) was an American intern at the Federal Bureau of Prisons in Washington, D.C., who disappeared in May 2001. She was presumed murdered after her skeletal remains were found in Rock Creek Park in May 2002. The case attracted attention from the American news media for years.



do you bar your windows at dusk, and pray no one breaks in to steal the $50 silver pendant that was handed down from your grandmother?


Yes, I bar my windows because I've been mugged for less than $50. My friend shot dead for less than $50. Myself beaten to a bloody pulp for 0$.


do you live in constant fear that at any moment the drug cartel can drive down your street, riddle your home and your 6 year old daughter with bullets for no reason except to incite fear?


Maybe not the drug cartels but it happens here daily too. I still don't rob people though.


do you worry each day that your son will dissapear, and never be heard or seen from again. Never knowing if he was killed, or forced to work in the drug fields?


Kidnapping happens the world over.



its been 8 years since my friend seen her mother. and most likely never will again. Nor will she ever see or know what happened to her brother that faithful day when "Patriotism" and "homeland security" protected our borders.


Again I will state that 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Just because your friend's brother was killed by drug cartels makes it ok for illegals to steal tax money?

I understand they have it tuff. It doesn't mean they have the right to steal tax money though.

My life is tuff. Where's my free money?


edit on 20-6-2012 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


No I think he's thinking perfectly rationally. You just missed his point. Just because a loop hole exists doesn't mean it is meant to be taken advantage of and taking advantage of it is still a quasi criminal act. It's like stealing because you can get away with it. It's not against the law if you don't get caught, right? pfft.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by GrimReaper86
 


Exactly.

It's like the show "bait car" where they leave a car running in a bad neighborhood for it to get stolen.

By these poster's logic on here, the one's who should be getting arrested are the policemen who gave the thieves something to steal and not the thieves themselves.

How is that logical?



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


I see you bashing Doom and Gloom a lot for his posts but I don't see you coming up with any solutions either....



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by GrimReaper86
 


I offered a solution a page back...


For illegals, you'd only get the tax credit for kids with a SSN (so we can actually prove/document you aren't just making up numbers here). Alternately, there should be a method for a woman to bring her kids into an office, and through a fingerprint registration (to avoid the "lending" of kids for this purpose), document the kids, obtaining an ID number for each, to then include in taxes (and at the same time, making it easier to prosecute any who later become criminal). Anyone caught "duping" (using the same kid for two families) would face immediate deportation and forfeiture of any tax refund.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


That's because legally there isn't anything we can do....sure 330 million people could simultaneously erupt in violent protest and linch the ones responsible but even if you somehow got everyone to participate, who would you target that would make a difference for the entire nation? The president is just as much a puppet most of the time as any other politician because they're motivations are not their own or the peoples, their motivations come from private corporations, and the wealthy that direct their hand.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


I wasn't directing my comment at you and I hadn't made it that far into the thread yet but I appreciate your response.
edit on 20-6-2012 by GrimReaper86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by loueber
id rather have billions of dollars going to help feed families in mexico, instead of billions of dollars used to blow up fake terrorists. stop being so greedy. the gov is going to collect your taxes and spend billions anyways.. might as well let someone benefit from it. all humans have an equell right to live, freedom, happiness, food, tv, cell phones... i wish more of my tax dollars went to the poor and less to the death regime...




I totally agree! It's not like 'legal' hard working American's are going to see that money anyway...

I sincerely believe that the government/elite will always try to rip off Americans for as much as they can possibly get away with. (and then a little bit more if they can)

So yeah, I'd rather see that money spent on people who obviously need it!

----This is definitely off topic so please ignore if you'd like, but this discussion reminds me of an argument I sometimes have with my uncle regarding the tax breaks that our government provides our Native communities.

I'm over here in Canada...and in my community there is a little bit of resentment/jealously by a very small number of people towards our Native population because they receive free University education and get a few tax breaks ect.

But whenever I start arguing with those small minded people...I always say...it's not like if the government stops giving these people free University education/tax cuts that suddenly the government would start paying for my education. The only difference would be that a historically disadvantaged population would no longer be given any type of compensation or help --- which is inexcusable imho, if you read anything about our history and the way the Native populations were treated.

Oh and of course...the government officials would be able to buy themselves new fur coats and luxury boats.

In other words, if we stopped giving these people tax breaks ect. that money would simply go right back into our politicians pockets. So at least this way, somebody who needs to help can benefit.

I say that everybody should have free higher education if they choose to and that our tax system both here in Canada and our neighbours next door need a major re-haul!

I think there needs to be so much transparency that the average citizen can clearly understand if they wish how their government is run.

(Quick note: I'm not comparing our Native community to people who come to the United States illegally. Our Native population of course was here long people before the British and French explorers.

I'm more just trying to explain (albeit perhaps not very well) how corrupt our governments are....and that there is no sense in blaming people for taking advantage of tax cuts...because their gain...doesn't take anything away from me. I was never going to see that money anyway)
edit on 20-6-2012 by OwenandNoelle because: Quick note



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by narwahl
 





Everything a government does is wealth redistribution.


This is not true. Let's begin with the Preamble to the Constitution for the United States of America:


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


This is the purpose of government, to establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure for the people, liberty. Engaging in a wealth redistribution does nothing to secure liberty for the people being plundered, it does not establish justice as plunder is unjust, it does not insure domestic tranquility as those being plundered are unhappy and those plundering invariably unhappy with the method of redistribution, and for this reason it does not promote the general welfare of the nation.

Taxes when levied and collected with the express purpose of establishing a Congress that legislates, among other things, an executive that enforces this legislation harmonious with the Constitution, and a judiciary that interprets the legislation and enforcement of, is not plunder. There is an expense to this establishment and taxes raise the revenue to cover that expense. For all the purposes of government listed within the Preamble, there is no need to tax income in order to accomplish the mandates tasked by the Constitution.

While Congress has the complete and plenary power of taxation, rules have been imposed upon Congress and if that branch chooses to tax people or property to raise revenue, those taxes must be apportioned among the several states. Apportionment can be a difficult task and for some tasks an absurd restriction on taxation. Were Congress to tax income directly, of which they do not, this would force them to apportion the direct tax so that individuals residing in states with the least population would wind up paying far more in income tax than would the individuals residing in states with the most population. This becomes ridiculously inequitable and merely underscores why the courts have consistently acknowledged that income taxes inherently belong in the category of indirect taxation.

This means that an income tax taxed indirectly is not a direct tax upon the property of income but is instead a tax upon some specified taxed activity, and income is simply used to measure how much of a tax is used. Of the many differences between a direct tax and an indirect tax is that when a person or a thing is being taxed directly that person or owner of a thing cannot pass the tax on to anyone else, but in direct taxes the tax can be passed on.

If the manufacture of automobiles is the activity being taxed, the manufacture can pass the tax on to the dealer of automobiles and that dealer can pass the tax onto the buyer. Because of this, indirect taxes are defeatable taxes in that if a person does not want to pay the tax on an automobile they can simply pass on purchasing a newly manufactured automobile and instead purchase a used automobile where the manufacturing tax has all ready been satisfied, or if they choose, decline to purchase an automobile at all.

The activity of earning income is not an issue in regards to the so called "income tax" because that is not a taxed activity. Earning income may be an activity but the fruit of that activity falls too close to the tree to be properly under the purview of Congress. Congress may specify particular activities that involve earning income, but the moment Congress attempts to levy a tax on the "act of earning income" they have moved the tax from indirect taxation into direct taxation, as they are necessarily taxing all people (capitation tax) who earn an income without specification of any particular activity. In that regard it is a poll tax waged on income earners.

For this reason, Congress has not levied any tax upon income earners. Were those enforcing Title 26 adhere to the rules imposed upon Congress, and since the IRS is a creation of Congress that creation is certainly bound by the same rules as Congress, then there would be no plunder involved, and of course, far less revenue raised under the guise of "income taxation". As it stands, the IRS dubiously and probably illegally enforces the "income tax" in a way that amounts to coercion and extortion, and that extra revenue raised through this method of coercion and extortion is the plunder I refer to.

Taxed and collected properly, taxation is not inherently plunder. If it is plunder, it is unconstitutional and should be stopped.




edit on 20-6-2012 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


and what's so hard for you to understand? People should have enough personal responsibility to not take advantage of the situation. Although this is the only place that people do. Other social programs are taken advantage of all the time by people that aren't illegals...like welfare. It's a good program for the people that need it and use it correctly to help themselves get back on their feet, but many people choose to stay on it long after they don't need it or don't really need it much to begin with....not saying everyone does but certainly some people do. The only way to know if people are taking advantage would be to send people to look into these families unannounced to make sure they aren't taking advantage and good luck getting the financial support to back up something like that. The same idea could be applied to this tax "loophole" situation, but I doubt very seriously it would ever be applied.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


They aren't "using" the law. They're breaking it. There's a difference.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 07:11 PM
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We get this sort of thing in England I've worked with some polish and some Africans all of them female working for a year have kids and live off my taxes or many other family's moving over and getting benfits straight away!

I work full time my partner works full time both low incomes we have 2 kids and we get sod all help and we both have been paying taxes for 13 years never not having jobs since leaving school I'm not saying I should get them. It it does take the piss a bit.



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by sailorsaturn92
 


it's not racist to expect people to follow your laws. what thread are you reading?



posted on Jun, 20 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by loueber
 


First off we're not the only country that wants to protect itself from immigration:
Let's Try Mexico's Immigration Law!

Secondly we have the 2nd amendment and if enough people were armed they could group together and protect themselves with guns if they had to, but they don't because they have a police system to do it for them even if the police system does this badly. We have something like cartels here in the states. They just aren't as powerful. They are called gangs.
edit on 20-6-2012 by GrimReaper86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by coop039
Seems to me if youre here illegally then you should not be allowed to file taxes in the first place.
Ive been audited twice in the past, probably because my ex and I were alternating years claiming our son on the taxes (legal to do btw). I gaurantee if claimed 15 kids the IRS would come down on me like a school of angry sharks! Interesting how we US citizens get put though a fine tooth comb, but the illegals just get away with what ever they want.


They don't just "get away with it". There are many more American's who use loopholes and don't get audited. You just don't hear about it so often b/c it doesn't support the bias of conservative news you likely listen to. It doesn't enflame people as much as these very successfully demonized "illegals" do.

The IRS does not prefer undocumented immigrants over Americans. To even think so defies all logic and reason.

I'll point out the Corporate tax loopholes yet again..American corporations use loopholes to to skirt over $60-80 billion in taxes annually. And its no surprise you don't hear about this from the conservatives. We all know how corporate "friendly" they are.

Would it surprise you to know they are dangling this tiny carrot in your face to distract you? Turn around and see for yourself whats REALLY going on here!



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by GrimReaper86
 


Oh boy, yet another person that misses the point completely.

Tell me, are some of you paid to post this hateful crap about immigrants?



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by MuonSpin
 


Star for you.

And yes, the people are so brainwashed that they refuse to see the actions of corporations that constantly skirt the laws.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


NO I will blame the entire political system. They will do nothing because this country has become so inept at doing anything because we're so mired in the political correct bull crap that is so pervasive in this country. I sit here and watch you people bicker back and forth about this issue. The issue is this country is going to hell and there is nothing the American citizen can do but get raped. While these free-loaders abuse our system and rake in the cash hard working Americans lose their jobs, homes and way of life.

They come to this country and work for pennies on the dollar under the table, mooch off of social programs, and then abuse the tax loop holes. Then when we actually say something we get slapped in the face with "Americans are racists because they do not want ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS in their country.

If there were a loop hole that allowed me to come into your house and beat your children, it is ok with you because it really isn't my fault I was beating your children, just blame the system.......Get Real.

agree!
besides this isn't socialism why should i pay for their crap? this is america.
HELLO
it's not that im being harsh it's just that the dam system has failed! socialism to save capitalism.


edit on 21-6-2012 by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld because: (no reason given)



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