Illegal's Get Huge Government IRS Checks - forget the tax REFUND part... Caution: Blood Boiler,

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
But until people get fed up and come together, stop blaming the results of the problems and start asking questions and demanding answers to the roots of the problems, things will only get worse.

I'm sorry but the root of this problem is not the child dependant laws. It is the illegals who are doing something illegal. Just like if I were to do the same thing.

NO, what do you not understand?

If there's is a bad law, or a loophole, that allows people to do things illegally and not get caught, how is their fault?

Yes their are doing something illegal, that's bad Mkay? But it'll NEVER stop unless you solve the ROOT CAUSE, which is the law or the loophole.

~Tenth

reply to post by hp1229


I worked with a girl who I found out was here illegally. She bragged one day that if they found her and sent her home, she'd be back, and it would only cost her a few dollars to get a new social security card she could use. She had an I-9 and W-2 filled out and on file using the fake SS number she had. If they caught her she would just move to another area, get a new card, and start over again.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

If there's is a bad law, or a loophole, that allows people to do things illegally and not get caught, how is their fault?

Are you kidding? It's not their fault that they do something illegal and get away with it? It's only their fault if they get caught?

reply to post by Phage


No, I said it was bad that they are doing illegal things, I'm with you on that.

All I'm trying to point out is that if you spend all your time blaming immigrants, then when does the actual problem get resolved?

How does it get resolved? Unless you change the immigration laws and the tax code?

It simply doesn't. So wasting your time blaming immigrants for their illegal activity, is just that, wasting your time, until you make it harder for them to do so.

~Tenth

A thread from a few weeks ago cited some interesting facts:


As we know, it is easy for illegal immigrants to file tax returns that show dependents.
That has resulted in false tax refunds costing billion$.

The Senate has offered legislation to eliminate the fraud.

It seems however, that Harry Reid (D, NV), the Senate Majority Leader, has blocked the effort !!

I wonder why ?

A bill that would close an IRS tax credit loophole that allows the IRS to funnel over $4 billion to illegal immigrants is being held up by Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV).

Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL), a senior member of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Ranking Member of the Senate Budget Committee, has been vocal in his disdain for the blatant misuse of taxpayer monies:

I’m disappointed that the Majority Leader objected to our effort today to prevent billions in tax credits from being wrongly sent to illegal immigrants claiming they have dependents, many of whom do not live in the US. This should not be a partisan issue: it is wrong for the government to use Americans’ tax dollars to directly subsidize illegality, especially at a time when our nation is spending so much money we don’t have.

The $4 billion wasted on the illegal immigrant tax credit loophole is “roughly the same amount the President proposes to raise annually by instituting the new Warren Buffett Tax,” says Sen. Sessions. The Alabama senator also notes that it's the amount needed to fund the shortfall in the highway bill and nearly all of the student loan bill.

Sen. Reid Blocks Ban on $4 Billion Illegal Immigrant Tax Credit Loophole

"Votes" for Democrats perhaps ?

Related Threads:

Reid Blocks Ban on $4 Billion Illegal Immigrant Tax Credit Loophole

Millions Of Illegal Immigrants Are Using A Massive Scam To Get Bigger Tax Refunds Than You Are

IRS Commissioner: Paying Taxes Is Pathway to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens

11.5 million undocumented immigrants in U.S.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
It's not Anti-US to state something factual.

State ONE fact in that rant and I'll apologize.

I just dont' believe in blaming the results of the problem, I believe in blaming the cause.

Again I will state that the laws are not the problem. As posted above, they are pretty darn clear on who is a dependant and who is not. It is not the laws fault that illegals are doing something illegal. Stop blaiming the law for what people are doing.

But you should tone it down on the insults, it makes you look foolish.

I have not gone beyond the T&C's. I can insult your logic all I want. Look it up.

So, if I shoot a black kid and take advantage of a law, then it is not my fault for murder? Please.

Irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant? I used a law to commit another law. By your logic, I am above the second law because I used the first law. Blaim the law remember?

Where's your personal responsibility? Aren't YOU responsible for the actions of your elected officials? How about you take some ownership for the millions of people who are negatively effected by the policies of the United States on a daily basis?

Since I don't have a congressman (DC), how do you suppose I do this?

but you can't blame them for being the actual problem, cause they aren't. They are the results of the problem. The CAUSE is what should be investigated and dealt with.

As stated above, the law is clear. They are doing illegal activities. THEY are the problem...not the result.

And the CAUSE of the problem, is not illegal immigration, or immigrations, it's the policies of the US government that allow these abuses to take place.

Please site the policy that we allow this to take place. As shown above, the policy is quite clear.

Not very difficult to understand.

Right back at you.

reply to post by HandyDandy


So you think that the tax code and all the tax laws, are perfect just the way they are?

There's no issue with immigration laws either and everything is PERFECT just the way it is?

And it's all the fault of the illegals?

Is that what your saying? I need you to clarify before I continue.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
NO, what do you not understand?

What part do YOU not understand. I could do the same as these illegals are doing. It would also be illegal for me to do it. It has nothing to do with country of birth.

If there's is a bad law, or a loophole, that allows people to do things illegally and not get caught, how is their fault?

There is NO bad law or loophole. And yes, if someone exploits a law or loophole, I will blame them and it IS their fault.

Yes their are doing something illegal, that's bad Mkay? But it'll NEVER stop unless you solve the ROOT CAUSE, which is the law or the loophole.

Again...quote this loophole that they are using. Because I want a big tax return too.

Oh, you can't? I guess that makes what they are doing already illegal.......

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

It simply doesn't. So wasting your time blaming immigrants for their illegal activity, is just that, wasting your time, until you make it harder for them to do so.

Let's put it this way:

Anyone in the USA can use this law to obtain more money illegally. Most do not because it is illegal.

The ones who are doing it on a massive scale are the illegal immigrants.

So, yes....I'll blame the illegal immigrants for their illegal activity.

Remember, the law already states that what they are doing is illegal. Just like anyone else in the country performing tax fraud.

reply to post by HandyDandy


You just said that ANYBODY could use this law to obtain money illegally.

How is that a good law then? How is the law not flawed, if you CAN use it to gain money illegally?

I'm not arguing that people should be allowed to do things illegally, I'm against that just as much as the next guy. But it seems to me that some of these laws enable them to do these things illegally and that should be fixed.

~Tenth

reply to post by Doom and Gloom

Since the average American citizen cannot change the laws

The average "citizen" can and regularly does change the laws. McDonald v Chicago is just one example of an average "citizen" challenging dubious legislation and having that legislation struck down as unconstitutional. Heller v. District of Columbia is yet another example, and while many people mistakenly believe that Citizens United v. FEC is about the Supreme Court "declaring corporations a person", it is actually another example of "citizens" changing "law".

Beyond this, there is jury nullification. Thirteen years after the passage of the 18th Amendment, Congress repealed that Amendment and did so in a large part because the "average citizen" refused to convict their suppliers of alcohol.

reply to post by HandyDandy


I get what is being said. Yes the immigrants are committing a crime, and yes it's bad that they are. But the bigger problem is that the tax code is so convoluted, and impossible to understand that it's POSSIBLE for them to do so. There are a lot of CITIZENS that also take advantage of loopholes in the tax code to get as much money as possible on their tax returns.

If we don't close those loopholes, then people, citizens or not, will continue to take advantage of them. I blame them for using them, but we also need to blame the people that allowed our tax code to become so bloated and impossible to follow, and do something about it.

A former boss of mine use to get letters from the IRS about employees he never had. found they all had Spanish surnames. The IRS wanted the tax money he was to have withheld.

What he finely found out was illegals were filling with the IRS that they had worked for him and using fake names.

So what you had was a illegal working one job and filing under three different names and claiming he worked three jobs with three employees two that were fake jobs.

If caught the illegal would just throws away the fake IDs and forget about it but the companies that he had claimed to work for still had to deal with the IRS and try to prove the person had never worked for them.

i have also heard of EX illegals that are back in Mexico that have relatives in the US that still file fake tax returns with the IRS and claim they still are working in the US.

And if there is another amnesty for illegals they will use these returns as proof they were still in the US and maybe have one or more to sell to other illegals

reply to post by HandyDandy

The ones who are doing it on a massive scale are the illegal immigrants.

Show me your proof..

Interesting to see you back this one up.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

So you think that the tax code and all the tax laws, are perfect just the way they are?

There's no issue with immigration laws either and everything is PERFECT just the way it is?

And it's all the fault of the illegals?

Is that what your saying? I need you to clarify before I continue.

~Tenth

No
No
Mostly...because they willfully are commiting a crime.
I am saying that I will blame a person who willfully commits a crime. Whether there are loopholes in place or not.

What part of "I could do this illegal activity also, but won't because it is illegal" do you not understand?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

You just said that ANYBODY could use this law to obtain money illegally.

How is that a good law then? How is the law not flawed, if you CAN use it to gain money illegally?

I'm not arguing that people should be allowed to do things illegally, I'm against that just as much as the next guy. But it seems to me that some of these laws enable them to do these things illegally and that should be fixed.

~Tenth

The difference?

I am documented.

They are mostly fraudulantly documented if documented at all.

Big difference when it comes to trying to get away with a crime don't you think?

reply to post by Phage

What there is are people who are filing fraudulent returns claiming unqualified dependents. It is no different from US citizens doing the same thing. It is illegal.

Given that anyone who if filing a valid tax return is signing under penalty of perjury that "all the above is true and correct", and given that part of the "above" includes the honorific address: "Dear Taxpayer", it is arguable that virtually everyone is filing fraudulent returns, and are no doubt perjuring themselves. Certainly people who rely upon a CPA to do their filing for them, and then signing under penalty of perjury that "all the above is true and correct" is fraudulent, and it is reasonably assumed people are turning to CPA's because they don't understand the damn tax code, so how could they possibly know that "all the above is true and correct" and how could they possibly know they are "taxpayer" as statutorily defined by the tax code?

Cheating the system can be done by anybody..You don't have to be illegal to do it.

A California man has been convicted in a scheme that saw hundreds of Canadians file fraudulent tax refund claims in the United States. Ronald L. Brekke was found guilty this week of conspiracy and wire fraud after helping nearly 1,000 people falsely claim millions of dollars in tax refunds.

news.yahoo.com...

Accounting firm BDO USA admitted it helped U.S. citizens evade about $1.3 billion in income taxes from 1997 to 2003 and said it would pay $50 million as part of a deferred prosecution agreement with the government.

articles.latimes.com...

Originally posted by Zaphod58
I blame them for using them, but we also need to blame the people that allowed our tax code to become so bloated and impossible to follow, and do something about it.

I can agree 100%. But do not tell me to NOT blame the illegals who are doing it as part of the problem too.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

The ones who are doing it on a massive scale are the illegal immigrants.

Show me your proof..

Interesting to see you back this one up.

Proof?

Is not this thread OP proof? Or are we one who distrusts EVERYTHING out of the MSM?