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Soldiers: "You (civilians/countrymen) Are Not Worth Fighting For!!!"

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posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by EvanB
 





I've nothing against soldiers, personally speaking, and I've defended them in the past but you're not fighting for your countrymen, you're fighting for your government only. It's your government's greed that you risk your life for, if you or the other soldiers were not there (in the wars) your countrymen would remain unharmed so you are not defending them at all.

You should create a more accurate thread titled ''You (politicians/government) Are Not Worth Fighting For''




posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
reply to post by EvanB
 


The Majority here on ATS are anti-everything and that includes our men in women in the armed forces. I could not agree with your statements more.


I know right, and the more they piss on dead people, carry Nazi flags and shoot children in their sleep, you'd think people would start to warm to them!

And there they go around innocently invading foreign countries at the behest of bankers and corrupt governments!

How can anyone object to that?

edit on 16-3-2012 by khimbar because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-3-2012 by khimbar because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by nightbringr
 


I had edited the post because i reread it and think it came out a little wrong moving on


The military enforces democracy, not coup's of our own government so overthrowing the government is out of the question because then it will be Americans on Americans because not everyone will go along with that. Now as far as voting is concerned my political views are irrelevant all I was illustrating is that democracy does not work in the services favor our numbers are very little and not everyone agrees for some ending wars means ending means to pay their bills. As far as being daft lol. I will simply say about corruption of the government yes its there but I am not so HIGH AND MIGHTY as you suggest but there is simply alot of things I don't know. I just don't know I don't have any answers but being a Marine Corps Veteran I believe I have the right to view things about the armed services as to where children can think what they want about daddies service or whatever, I will say the whole situation after 8 years left me with a bad taste in my mouth, and now I am out of the service.


All fair. I appologize for coming off like that as well, but as a person who has the highest of respect for our armed forces, i feel bothered being treated as a peice of cr#p by one of those i thought i respected.

I do not believe my vote for one party or the other is somehow going to magically make things better for the OP. If you do, fine, but i dont think things are that black and white. I do vote and am very politically active in Canada, fighting for things i believe important.

I do believe those in the forces have honest gripes, no doubt. But to put that all on our shoulders, thinking somehow us civilans can vote and everything will be better? Laughable. I dont really want you to overthrow the government either, as i fear military rule, but i was simply trying to illustrate a point. You CAN make a difference, and believe much more than we voters who simply have to option of one crook or another.

Im also not sure why you say as a forces member your vote wont matter. Why not? Do the forces not stand together in solidarity with the people they are sworn to protect? Why is our vote distinctly different from your vote? We both have the same options when we check off a box in a voting booth. I think you are simply looking for someone to blame.
edit on 16-3-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by EvanB

Originally posted by aaron2209
Why do you fight if not for your government or your people? Just curious.


We are sent where your vote sends us....



Then I vote for you and every other soldier to stand guard all along OUR shores and along the Canadian and Mexican borders. Maybe then we'll be able to take a flight within the country without being stripped, probed and x-rayed.

I fully respect veterans for having the guts to put themselves in harm's way no matter where they fought, but that doesn't mean I approve of forcing our beliefs on other countries. That doesn't mean I approve of stirring up the fanatical, unbreakable Middle East just for our sip of oil.

As a nation I vote to lead by example, not by a gun.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by EvanB

Originally posted by aaron2209
Why do you fight if not for your government or your people? Just curious.


We are sent where your vote sends us....



Then I vote for you and every other soldier to stand guard all along OUR shores and along the Canadian and Mexican borders. Maybe then we'll be able to take a flight within the country without being stripped, probed and x-rayed.

I fully respect veterans for having the guts to put themselves in harm's way no matter where they fought, but that doesn't mean I approve of forcing our beliefs on other countries. That doesn't mean I approve of stirring up the fanatical, unbreakable Middle East just for our sip of oil.

As a nation I vote to lead by example, not by a gun.


Defense.
great post.
gravitor



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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I used to be a soldier and believe me the attitude the OP is showing is NOT typical at all!

The modern military is outdated in the West, it still clings to older-ways that aren't of a benefit anymore. The western empire's are barely holding.
There ought to be a re-distribution of power away from the ruling-elites to the local authorities and peoples.

We can't keep messing in the Middle-East, it's a waste and currently benefitting only the MIC and the ptb NOT the people of the west.

The mindset of the volunteer professional army in Europe is too stratospheric and out of sync with the civilian populace.
Hence there is a 'them' and 'us' separation.
Conscription and a Volunteer Force (militia) is the only way a people can form a reasonable buffer between the ptb and it's own military which is not the country's but the elites and has been for century's.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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This is the same retoric that the Chinese Communist put into the Vietnamese populace tried to do during Vietnam.

Obviously the ploy didn't work as China is still Communist and America is still free.

Yep.....still free China.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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And of course you really do stand out as a paragon of intellect and forward thinking.
I cannot take you seriously, you are idiotic enough to think that being trained to kill another person is an ok thing in a time and political environment where you could be sent under the auspices of lies and deceit to kill others for no other reason than you being stupid enough to be there and do it for someone else?.

The government has attacked the country, yet you blame the citizenry for the failures of your government, in case you didn't notice but the voting procedure has been compromised, and in the states it is down to the military to protect the country from enemies foreign and domestic, that is what your OATH in the united states says.

As for the UK, this country has been subverted by a political mindset that now controls all aspects of politics, and it is nothing more than a sham, same in the states, If their were not mindless minions like yourself providing the controllers of this planet with the force to control it, they wouldn't be doing it like this, they would have to ask us what we wanted, and not constantly remove rights and abrogate our national ideals and morals under threat of violence for reacting to them.

Join the police im sure you would find a cosy little club in which you could exercise your intolerances and sense of superiority, i can't tell you what i really think about you and your mindset, it would get scrubbed by an admin.

You don't see that the government will take everything it can from you and not even guarantee you housing when you leave the army, and that is the fault of the civilians, would you like us to buy you a house?.

I lived homeless on the street for a few years, i don't blame anyone but myself for ending up there, you have made choices, choices to give your all to an entity that sees you as "Dumb pawns to be used in the pursuit of foreign policy", and then get angry at those you are one of?, see how corrupt your thinking is, you ARE a civilian, a civilian brainwashed into believing you are not a member of this society and just as much to blame for its ills.

You see civilians just want a peaceful life they don't feel the need to go rampaging into another persons country for no good reason and kill them, The military is supposed to be the ultimate force both home and away, we trust you to be that, but you so obviously are not capable of seeing beyond your own petty intolerances, if you did and looked at how the population is controlled by the government, how they are kept stupid, you might begin to see why things are the way they are, and just how badly the military have *ucked up in not keeping the government straight, because all that is left after the political process has been subverted is you.

And if the population did take to the streets, you would just love the opportunity to exercise your superior tactical and weapons knowledge on untrained civilians, wouldn't you?, because you WOULDN'T fight with us and your masters would be telling you to pull the trigger, ah the perfect moment to exercise and indulge those intolerences.
excuse me while i puke all over your boots.
edit on 16-3-2012 by The X because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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Neither is your government worth fighting for. It's our leaders that run our countries, don't see how it's the peoples fault if you're wondering why it's worth fighting. Maybe you're just waking up like many others are. Most of our wars are a sham when it comes to why we actually fight, and is in the hands of a few people making selfish decisions by the looks of it.

And I have a lot of respect for anyone's armed forces, what bugs me is the people that send them out to fight if it's not in any of our best interests.
edit on 16-3-2012 by robhines because: added



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by NightGypsy
 


You live in the land of the false sense of security and strength... Those things have been provided by people like me..


After carefully reading that remark, it sounds like you are admitting that you provide us with a false sense of security and strength? How is that valuable?



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:15 PM
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You're not fighting for the U.S or the civilians. You are killing innocent people for Zionist bankers, stupid.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by The X


As for the UK, this country has been subverted by a political mindset that now controls all aspects of politics.....





posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


As far as my vote not mattering it doesn't matter who I vote for or anyone because most simply put my job still wouldn't change either way a service members job is to serve how ever and to what ever capacity that may be.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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Personally I think all paid/non paid military personell around the world should be dismantled and returned to life as civilians.

In the event of war, people can get up and defend their country, and their lands themselves.

Thats what it was like in the old days, until someone invented the crappy idea to have 'soldier' as a profession. Heh.

Every able bodied person should be a soldier and get up and fight when they have to. This would make the world a better place IMO, albeit with less people in it.
edit on 16-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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I don't give a rats ass what you feel like doing, you took an oath.

And a man that won't live up to his oath is no kind of man.

The population are not screwing you, the politicians are.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by EvanB
You are not....

Why the hell should any of us put our lives on the line for any of you??..

Because it is a profession as much as becoming a carpenter, lawyer or doctor...

Which supposed to look after housing et al after service.. We get none of that.. And am just left for dead by our own country.. Same for the wounded.. Infact foreigners take priority..

Nobody fights for us... Why should we fight for you??

That is the consensus amongst the troops..

Basically..

You're absolutely right, EvanB! You shouldn't fight for Americans when they don't fight for you! Americans are not fighting for you. Americans appear to be quite satisfied that its sons and daughters are dying defending nothing more than oil and poppy fields. I mean you aren't really defending Americans afterall. You are defending Obama's corporate interests.

The government's 'military covenant' basically tells everybody that it is honorable and righteous for you to murder and die for Americans. What the government's 'military covenant' does not say is that murdering and dying are bad and that you aren't really dying for Americans. Your mother probably taught you that violence, fighting, murder, and dying are bad but then some general with a lot of shiny brass comes along and says that it's good. That's what causes PTSD. It should be called the Moral Dilemma Syndrome, or the sickness caused by harming other human beings, or the sickness caused by doing things that your mom and God told you is wrong.

If the government was actually honest with you and the rest of Americans then it would tell you that if war doesn't kill you then it will make you very, very sick. It basically just spits out propaganda about how honorable debauchery is. In fact, I anticipate some brainwashed fool to come along any minute now and lecture me about how honorable murder in uniform is. Young people would never join the military if the military said that it will force you to murder but if you refuse then it will ruin you with a 'dishonorable' discharge but if you comply then you will suffer extensive physical, mental and/or spiritual illnesses for the rest of your life. You're absolutely right, you should not do that for Americans. You should not do that for anyone. God is going to hold you accountable for your actions whether you have a general's permission or not.

Originally posted by WatchRider
There ought to be a re-distribution of power away from the ruling-elites to the local authorities and peoples.

I agree. Soldiers should defend Americans and not Obama's oil and poppy fields on the other side of the world. OP, you seem to believe the government propaganda that you are sacrificing your life to defend Americans but you aren't. You are sacrificing your life for Obama and his wealthy campaign donors and their investments in oil and poppy fields on the other side of the world. Hate to break it to you but you are just a gun defending the ruling elites' stash. If you were actually defending Americans then this conversation would be different but you aren't. Laying your life down for another human being is honorable but, technically, you aren't doing that. You are surrendering your life so that Michelle Obama can take another vacation.
edit on 16-3-2012 by chizeled because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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So you are upset that I did not give you a big enough 'thank you' when you killed a few hundred thousand foreign civilians to ensure my safety?
Perhaps that is because despite all the propaganda put out by the govt/media I was never the least bit worried that these goat herders in small villages in the Middle East were actually going to harm me. I did not feel any need to be protected and if the only way you are able to protect me from the phantom menace you insist actually exist there involves the deaths of hundreds? thousands? of innocent children then I am asking you quite sincerely to please stop protecting me.
Do not destroy any more villages for me.
Do not bomb a target and kill innocent civilians because there 'may' be an insurgent amongst them.
And please consider the possibility that the people who are shooting at you are not really my enemy but are actually upset because you are destroying their homes and killing their friends, family and children.
Just consider it. Give some serious thought as to the difference between terrorist who have sworn to kill Americans and freedom fighters attempting to oust foreign invaders. Ask yourself how you would react if foreign troops in your home state killed someone you loved and demanded you be grateful for being 'liberated' by them.
Grow up. Get real.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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As has been said before, I didn't ask you to fight "for us." You are not fighting for citizens, you are fighting for the ruling class.

Besides, I don't care about the opinion of a person who will blindly follow orders and murder civilians in cold blood.


Edit: Puck 22 you hit the nail on the head. Props and star sir!



edit on 16-3-2012 by UltraDOSEcious because: props



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by EvanB
 
Well first things first. let me give the mandatory, " i support our troops" comment. Now.
I have about had it with these crybaby, whining entitled little Blowhards that join the military and think its gonna be some 3D, Hi Def, Michael bay explosion filled video game, the minute someone starts to shoot back they wet their little diapers because mommy and daddy aren't there to give them a hug and a mountain dew. News flash, You SIGNED up for it. You went in and said i want to be a soldier. If you join the military in these difficult times you have to expect that you are going to do two things. 1, you are going to travel to another part of the world and be involved in some made up for profit war. 2, you are probably going to die. There have been countless men and women who had no choice but to fight for this country. You DID! So grow a set, stop cryin about it and get over yourself.You have no one to blame but you.You say," soldiering is a calling-if you are forced into it by conscription then it does not count", ? do some research. If you are telling me all soldiers who fought in past wars are not "soldiers" or they dont count because of conscription then you have to be the single most ignorant person on this planet.Please do not breed. Thats all we need a bunch of little morons like you runnin around.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by EvanB

You pay our wages??


Yes


Originally posted by EvanB

Do you think that we become soldiers to "Get Paid"???


Most do, and you haven't said anything in the following barely coherent diatribe to convince me that you are cut from any different cloth than the majority.


Originally posted by EvanB
Soldiering is a calling... If you are forced into it by conscription then that does not count.

In the west we are volunteers...


In the west most soldiers are organized mercenaries; often lured from the dregs of society when they have few other options for a career. As a slight aside, I'm certain that your superiors are overjoyed that that particular fiction/justification/brainwashing is working so very well on you. This is fantastic.


Originally posted by EvanB
That may sound strange but an integral part of humanity has always had its soldiers..


True


Originally posted by EvanB
Why??


Because those in power wish to remain in power and you cannot do so without a show of force; usually manifested as a military.


Originally posted by EvanB
Because it is a profession as much as becoming a carpenter, lawyer or doctor...


Maybe for some, but not for most, (and in my opinion almost certainly not you no matter what you tell yourself), and the "profession" of soldiering is certainly not the reason why we always have soldiers. If you are confused, to repeat, please see above for the reason "why".


Originally posted by EvanB
We are not brainless morons... Imagine having to get 28 guys from a to b without being seen or heard, using the ground to its best advantage, with one foot on the ground that covers the moves.. Then the reaction to effective enemy fire, locating the enemy, the assault; which is done out of sight of the enemy with the ground being used to best advantage.


Generally not stupid, agreed. However, you are usually brainwashed and this does inhibit certain thought processes as you have manifested here beautifully.


Originally posted by EvanB
My government always goes on about "the military covenant"

Which supposed to look after housing et al after service.. We get none of that.. And am just left for dead by our own country.. Same for the wounded.. Infact foreigners take priority..


See now you are starting to catch on. You are just more meat for the meat grinder to the Gov.


Originally posted by EvanB
Nobody fights for us... Why should we fight for you??


This ^ one had me outta my chair laughin. For a hard bitten warrior this is just about the whiny-est most punk a$$ bich thing I think I have ever heard. I mean wow. Because it's your job and you swore an oath you whiney little snot. That's why. Now put on your big-boy pants and prove your not just some mindless mercenary because that little statement proves that that is precisely what you are. *sniff* "nobody fights for us" *whine, cry* My gawd. You need to be worth fighting for before anyone will stand up for you.


Originally posted by EvanB
That is the consensus amongst the troops..

Basically..

##SNIP##

We will look after you when you look after us...


It has been a long time coming...

And I for one agree..


They are also now conditioning you to blame the civilian population because we "won't stand up for you either so why should we help you." So when the time comes, you will have no qualms about killing citizens of your own country. As I said, it seems the brainwashing is working with you beautifully. You are so confused and f***ed up that you are not even certain whom you should be mad at so they give you a target and you will lash out without thinking. You may think that this doesn't amount to much but... "Soldier" most of us will shoot back.


edit on 16-3-2012 by redhorse because: (no reason given)




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