Is Christianity Really Brainwashing?

technically speaking, "god" did not create the universe, but mechanisms were used to create the universe that sentient beings of some awesome magnitude, employed. these two ideas were mixed together, and the mechanisms that were used became so closely associated with the beings who used them, that it came to be known as gods (elohim, a plural word). sort of like a primitive tribe of people calling people who fly in planes, birds. they aren't birds. their planes aren't birds. ya get the idea.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by mfilicicchia

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by MrsBlonde

 

Ever heard of a little thing called the 'Inquisition'?

How about 'missionary work'?

The 'Crusades' ring a bell?

This is why people get so irate at Christians and Christianity in general, you seem to have no ability to recollect the horrors of that which your Church does in the name of 'Yahweh.'

I actually think the same thing every time I hear some folks bring up muslim extremist. I mean, how do you qualify using christianity as a standard to attach an entire group of people for the threat of very few. Especially when those few will tell you honestly they did not do half of what they are accused of.
I have no desire to justify either faith in harming each other.

But I refuse to attack everyone in a faith for the acts of a few or many. They are not all the same. They are all human however. And I can hope we all figure it out together. No harm in that.

Ah, now here we will differ.

I suggest you read the Qu'ran. It is an eye opening experiencing. This book is not equivalent to the Bible in ideology, nor is it open-ended in its application. Reformers in this religion need to work very hard to try and reintrepret clear directives that are made as maximum standards, and which are resistant to reform.

Umm Yaeh. Its that same kind of sweeping Precluded statement of authority based on a point of view that has been the mainstay of the almost mirror like qualities that these 3 blended monotheistic religions share. Every one says read our book and you will see. And if I don't see what they see, they label me a liar and assume to know my passed present and future. And say all I have said is a lie.
Only God knows those things. Him alone. Or them. However you look at it.
I agree that the Qu'ran has been mistranslated and presented in a poor light by evil men. They just want to justify killing brown people, through fear and generalization of a belief they distort to the public for support. Vile men.
But The Catholics did it to the Gnostic Christians also. And the Hebrew children did it to the Cannanites.

Peace and Safety

Originally posted by dthwraith

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Wow surprised Non of the Board regular Christians havent been on here at least to try and defend their faith, maybe you got thru to them OP

I have better things to do and could care less how others view me. Reading peoples responses to posts like these just make me like people a lot less here on ATS.

Don't like what you see? so you just ignore it and decide not to visit here...good go to a christian website where everyone agrees with you then...pfft

reply to post by gabby2011


Im not going to try to get anybody to convert, because its just not going to happen. We are at least a thousand years off before we end war with ourselves. War will not end, until religions are gone. This is a simple fact. Everybody is entitled to believe what they want, but when your a kid you just follow along and as i explained earliar you are basically brainwashed. Adults who have gone to religion have done so, because they are not able to explain certain things in their life, and god is a very positive way in thinking of how all things come together. But this is how the whole idea of god came about in the first place. Now we actually have the technology and the brains to go out into the universe and see for ourselves how we came to existence. More and more we are seeing that "god" as we know it, an entity which has created the universe, space and time, is not a single being with personal intentions, but a collective of consicoiusness making up an entity with many intentions. This collective of consciousness is what makes up our individual consicousness, it's just been spread about into different organisms if you will. We are all conneceted throught this consciousness, which is why the law of attraction, and praying to god, works, because we influence people to do things which leads us to our evolution. This is not to say that people have control of the physical universe through thought, it just means they have influence. Dark matter is made up of this universal consicousness and we cannot detect it other than it's gravitational pull, because it lies in a different dimension. I think that when people talk about god, this is what they are refering to, however they have had this picture of jesus in their heads for so long, that they can't understand the concept that god is made up of all living things in the universe. Techniquely everything can be referred to as living, such as stars, and planets. When we decide that we don't need money anymore, and we all want to live as one, with the planet earth, not agaisnt it, I thing we will find ourselves in a position to evolve into a higher state of consciousness. Until then, probalby about 1000 years, unless we kill ourselves, greed will continue to take over peoples minds, and people will be manipulated into believeing the same thing over and over again, feeding the money into the system. I think that when we created the universe, we didn't intend to have it the way we've made it here on earth. We were all born on this planet into slavery, if you don't pay, you die.

reply to post by undo


Either way, not deserving of worship, which in turn negates the purpose of religion.

Originally posted by mfilicicchia

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by mfilicicchia

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by MrsBlonde

 

of authority based on a point of view that has been the mainstay of the almost mirror like qualities that these 3 blended monotheistic religions share. Every one says read our book and you will see. And if I don't see what they see, they label me a liar and assume to know my passed present and future. And say all I have said is a lie.
Only God knows those things. Him alone. Or them. However you look at it.
I agree that the Qu'ran has been mistranslated and presented in a poor light by evil men. They just want to justify killing brown people, through fear and generalization of a belief they distort to the public for support. Vile men.
But The Catholics did it to the Gnostic Christians also. And the Hebrew children did it to the Cannanites.

Peace and Safety

Ah, the ol'you don't understand because you can't read argument for Islam. A continuing favourite.

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by andersensrm

 

I totally concur.

Us truly understanding God, is like an ant understanding Middle east politics. It has not the synapses to even begin the task.

We have no ability to even begin to fathom such an all encompassing being, if such exists.

The certainty of religions are the very epitome of arrogance.

Especially when you take into account the endless massacres that occur in God's multifaceted name.

Yes. It is the uncertaintly princple at work, i know origially it was for light and energy, but more and more I can apply this principle to other things. The more we try to think about where we come from, the farther and blurier it gets...

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by LunaKat

 

I am currently of none. I do not have a religious concept that would be recognizable to most of the 7 billion people on this planet.

You want Christians to get it? Then tell them to read the Bible. They are not educated on the matter, and the solution is simple.

Now, the New Testament does indeed contradict or reform many of these concepts. Further, it doesn't have a limitation that many other religious concepts have, in that those laws/parables are not consider the final solution. Most of what can be considered general "laws" in it are minimum standards, and maximum limitations.

edit on 2011/12/30 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

the contradiction is, that although enki is present and accounted for in the old testament, basically speaking, he's usually not, that is, until the new testament. now if you've read the sumerian-akkadian texts, you know that enlil and enki had different approaches to the human race. this is what you are seeing when you read the bible. the ot is enlil centric, the nt is enki centric.

edit on 30-12-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)

That's one interpretation.

I can also read Genesis and see how the God of Abraham sounds like Zeus.

It is worth while to move your perspective around.

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
reply to post by undo

 

Either way, not deserving of worship, which in turn negates the purpose of religion.

you need to redefine worship then because from what i can tell, worship is work and conversation. you work for and converse with the people at your job. in a sense, you are worshipping your place of employment. you work in and converse with people of your nation, same thing. in fact you pay tithes to your government in the form of taxes. you work in and converse with people in school. same thing. it's all about your focal point -- where and how you spend your most valuable time. if you spend it masturbaaaiting, then you're worshipping sex. if you spend it, watching tv, same thing, although this could be argued, depending on what you were watching and how it applied to your normal focal point.

what sets religions slightly apart, is that they work, metaphorically, and converse, spiritually, with a being or beings from other dimensions/universes/planets, whatever, that are not physically available in 3d reality on a regular enough basis to suggest they exist to the skeptical (although you'd be hard pressed to prove the only sentient life in existence is 3d or even in this universe).

reply to post by Aeons


oh i think they are all the same story, just retold from various cultural perspectives, in their own languages, and with generational layering on top.

reply to post by andersensrm


Religious people have faith that they know God's mind (an arrogance that is the mother of all arrogance.)

They are certain that the God they worship is the one true God, yet no certainty can be, since we, not only do not know, but we literally CANNOT know.

This is why wars are still being waged in the name of God.

Because they, naturally, cannot be truly confident in their belief, they feel the need to overcompensate. Much like a man might bash gays given the fear and uncertainty of his own sexuality.

Until our fervently religious brothers and sisters can admit their uncertainty, which is anathema to their professed 'faith,' we will always have to deal with their violent lashing out.

I don't see that happening anytime soon, unfortunately.

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by LunaKat

 

I'm hoping in the way that you hope that Christians will one day see that its all the same Goddess (or God or Great Spirit or Energy). And I'm also hoping that one day Christians will drop all the stuff they're clinging to that keeps people divided. Either that or in all honesty I'll cheer the day that Christianity bites the dust and is lost to history. Because its already starting to fall apart and its due to this inflexible unchanging religion with all its threats and hatred.

I'm so sorry you feel that way..and I only see love and justice in the messages of our Holy mother.

She is so full of love..and encourages love.. as well as respect and gratitude for what Christ has suffered for us.

Christianity will be under great persecution in the times ahead.. but please remember if you cheer when they are martyred and tortured ..that they will be with real divine love through out eternity.

Can you honestly say with all certainty that if Christianity was abolished from this world.. there would be no threats and no hate?

You only need to look around this world to see what abandoning faith in the love and salvation of Jesus has brought us.

I only need to see what abandoning my faith in Jesus and the messages of His mother has brought in my life... and it lead to nothing worthy or good.

I am grateful for the prayers of the faithful ..eternally grateful ..for their forgiving nature.. and for their continued hope for the salvation for lost souls.

As I told you before the one you call the Mother Mary is to some Pagans --especially Christo-Pagans but some others as well-- the Goddess. And the fact that she is so loving is a thing that Pagans also believe about Her. And She has appeared and requested Her church be built on the very site of where Her temple was destroyed before (at least in the Guadalupe visitation in Mexico). She is very very loving. Not arguing that but we believed that anyways.

I wondered how long before the persecution card was gonna be pulled out. Heres what I think about that. This persecution you're all talking about is going to come from within. Its as its already started Christian vs. Christian. You argue over which version of the Bible is correct, you argue to the death which church or denomination is the true one, you argue to the death the commentaries of the Bible verses and what Revelations means. Its Catholics vs. Evangelicals vs. Baptist vs. vs. vs. vs. so on. You rip each other apart. That will be the bulk of the so called "persecutions." You'll do it to yourselves as you've already started doing

No one needs to step in anywhere and launch a persecution. Just stick like 7 Christians that don't know each other in a room, toss out a Bible question to the group, leave and come back in say oh 30 min or an hour. They will be at each others throats.

I see these persecutions as being nothing more than stripping away the manufactured stuff of the last 2000 years. The manufactured politics of the Church and the doctrines which have caused hatred. They will burn out. People are no longer just blindly accepting whatever they are told..they are searching for themselves.

What is left after this main part is finished will play out between Christianity and the rest of the world religions. UNTIL the day that we as people finally get it that its all the same. That we are not sinners and saved, we are brothers and sisters.

Whatever stands in the way of that will be persecuted out or laying in ruins. But I don't see it as people murdering or anything like that (although there are fanatical Christians and fanatics in religions who might attempt that).

But I say bring it on. I'm more than happy for this to be over with. Then maybe instead of fear and threats our world can move forward in peace. But the garbage has to be cleaned from within your denominations (you are bedfellows) before it can happen and that is what I think is the real "cleansing."

reply to post by wildtimes

Do I believe what gabby2011 tells me with such conviction while she refuses to hear other ideas and insists on calling everyone who disagrees a diabolic liar?

How sad that you would say I called you a diabolical liar because you disagreed with me.. I called you simply a liar when you lied about other things that you said and implied which were not true.. such as me stalking you.. after you had sent me a u2u to join in and participate on your thread. You also said that the u2u was sent after we "reconciled"..but in fact it wasn't and if anyone could read that u2u they would see no re conciliatory words within it...actually quite the opposite.
So I am kindly asking you to quit lying about why I called you a liar.. you know why I did..and you also know how you lied. If you choose to continue to lie and twist things around.. you need to answer for it..not me.

He may have been well-intentioned, please don't mistake my meaning (again): But WHY would he have to have "stigmata" to be taken as "special"? It surely must have hurt.

He did not want to be taken as special.. and wished he could have suffered those wounds privately. Why did he have them ?

Because he was a man that understood the sufferings of Christ and wanted to unite himself to the sufferings of Christ in the form of penance for the sins of humanity.

As far as this scholar who said he was a fraud.. he was also denounced by other scholars..and very highly educated men.

Whether it shatters my illusions or not...I'd like to know the TRUTH, and I know that someday I will. Meanwhile, I am free to look at all methods of practicing one-ness with the Divine, and choose the one that best represents my instinctual understanding of the great Mysteries. For me, the Catholic and exclusive Christian faiths aren't gonna cut it.

I think someday you will know the truth as well wildtimes... but you may be surprised at the revelation...and understand more clearly why Padre Pio chose to suffer with the stigmata.

Let's not argue and continue to pray for each other.. because in the end..that is what will bring forth the most truth and understanding of true divinity.

God bless you wildtimes..

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by andersensrm

 

Religious people have faith that they know God's mind (an arrogance that is the mother of all arrogance.)

They are certain that the God they worship is the one true God, yet no certainty can be, since we, not only do not know, but we literally CANNOT know.

This is why wars are still being waged in the name of God.

Because they, naturally, cannot be truly confident in their belief, they feel the need to overcompensate. Much like a man might bash gays given the fear and uncertainty of his own sexuality.

.

it's nothing like that. it's a survival of the fittest mechanism. the first one to let his guard down, get's his rear end handed to him on a platter.

reply to post by jimnuggits


Yeap, I agree, I think you articulated that better than I did, thanks

reply to post by LunaKat


i have tracked the goddess, all over ancient history. and let me tell ya, we ladies got jipped. the goddess features the most prominently in cultures where women have absolutely no value at all. since this was not the teaching of jesus regarding women, it seems the fact we had to endure another 2000 years of inequality is related to the pagan+christianity we know today as catholicism. they adopted the same mindset, prevalent in all the pagan empires before them, including the grecian, the persian, and the babylonian. thusly why people who derive from the geographical area of babylon (muslims etc), have such hard core anti-female rhetoric in their texts. the goddess is the only female that gets any honor. the human women are treated like trash.

reply to post by undo


Yes we all understand the survival of the fittest motto, But that is a primitive state of being. This is the behavior we see from animals, surely were not going to look backwards in evolution for where we should be heading. We are beyond the survival of the fittest, because we have the technology to keep everyone alive. As long as we stay in the mindset of survival of the fittest, and every man for himself, we'll simply never evolve consicously, and the existence of the human race well probably be confined to earth, while we quarrel with ourselves over stuff that we have so much of, everyone could have exactly what they need for the rest of their lives. This is why we I predict that we are about a 1000 years before we can adopt this type of mentality, the idea is so unfathomable people just can't see it happening. Its kind of like going back 1000 years and arguing with someone why the earth is a sphere and not flat. People couldn't fathom that idea, they couldn't make sense of it, but if you could just get them into space in a space craft and look, they would be like " OHHHHHH! Now I see!" Unfortuantley I have no way of showing people how this system could work. But is I could I think i would get a big "OHHHH!" and Instantly change their minds.

reply to post by autowrench

I believe there are many people in the world today who are very deluded by their religious beliefs, even to the extreme in some cases. How do you know that you are not one of them, having been brainwashed by the very culture you were brought up in? How do you know? You must consider this a possibility for it’s a fact that brainwashed people do not know they have been brainwashed. My claim is that most who call themselves Christian are brainwashed. Demand good evidence along with good reasons for why you believe, believe you know. It’s that simple.

I would not call any belief or faith brainwashing. Now I personally dont agree with raising children to only know one path of spirituality but each to their own on that.

All faiths are birthed from some sort of real experience that could not be explained or from being very rooted in a culture, people, and land...which evolved with their understandings that changed, over time. All faiths, had a purpose for that particular land and people, in that time.

All faiths/beliefs, are very much a part of mankind as a whole, as a whole in discovering what we are. Some will attach to a faith that follows direct beliefs and some will seek out a more open path that the seeker has rights to their own seeking.

We are creators, we know this through our dreaming in that we create and experience creation, at the same moment. It does not seem that there is any wrongs in attaching ones self to a particular belief of faith, for in NDE there still seems to be unconditional love and eternal understanding in what path a person has chosen in the life of flesh.

What ever one has chosen in their beliefs, there is reason and purpose. If they feel they need a savior, then this says something about their own personal feelings on the self, maybe finding themselves unworthy in spirit. What ever one believes, there is something much deeper being said about that soul/phase. So many past cultures lived in their faiths. It was a daily need to many of them. I think what was really important for them and still is today for those that get together with like minded ideas, is the congregating together. I hope in our future to see more and more mankind being able to come together to congregate on a day of rest without needing beliefs to be the center reason why we do so.

Religions have their place here. They are a part of our sifting, measuring, and searching. What belief one chooses, says something about them. When someone does not need a belief that gives for sure so called answers about the unknown, this also, says something about that soul/phase, eternally.

Thankfully, I grew up in a christian home that it was not wrong to question. I had a pastor who loved questions. So even though many tried to give me their for sure answers as I grew up, I still had the birth right, spiritually, to choose my own path in my mind and heart.

The great thing is....no matter what others tell us, no one can make our mind or heart accept something that does not resonate with. Sure as children things can be molded into us. But if a child grows into adulthood and has kept the same faith as what it was raised with, there is a reason, a purpose. The reason is far beyond a individuals existence, but is more about the whole of existence and their little small part of it.

Though I have moved far away from a strict religion, it served a huge purpose in my life of sifting, weighing, and measuring.

The things we say we understand, says something more about us on a deeper level, as a whole, discovering, searching, and being.

I dont agree with raising any children to think there is something to fear. But at the same time, over coming that fear as an adult, gave me so much strength and a new understanding about what a spiritual birth right really was. I wouldnt change anything about the beliefs I was raised under for they played a part in how I came to the 'me' today.

I do think that religions of 2000 years ago will fade out over time, just as others in the past have. New books will be written, new understandings will become, and our past will always hold a part in us getting to where we are going.

Wishing wellness to all
LV

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by undo

 

Yes we all understand the survival of the fittest motto, But that is a primitive state of being. This is the behavior we see from animals, surely were not going to look backwards in evolution for where we should be heading. We are beyond the survival of the fittest, because we have the technology to keep everyone alive. As long as we stay in the mindset of survival of the fittest, and every man for himself, we'll simply never evolve consicously, and the existence of the human race well probably be confined to earth, while we quarrel with ourselves over stuff that we have so much of, everyone could have exactly what they need for the rest of their lives. This is why we I predict that we are about a 1000 years before we can adopt this type of mentality, the idea is so unfathomable people just can't see it happening. Its kind of like going back 1000 years and arguing with someone why the earth is a sphere and not flat. People couldn't fathom that idea, they couldn't make sense of it, but if you could just get them into space in a space craft and look, they would be like " OHHHHHH! Now I see!" Unfortuantley I have no way of showing people how this system could work. But is I could I think i would get a big "OHHHH!" and Instantly change their minds.

the fact that you're here arguing over this, is also a survival of the fittest mechanism. all debate, war, argument, skirmish, games, competition, is survival of the fittest. you express your viewpoint, someone else expresses theirs.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
reply to post by undo

 

Either way, not deserving of worship, which in turn negates the purpose of religion.

you need to redefine worship then because from what i can tell, worship is work and conversation. you work for and converse with the people at your job. in a sense, you are worshipping your place of employment. you work in and converse with people of your nation, same thing. in fact you pay tithes to your government in the form of taxes. you work in and converse with people in school. same thing. it's all about your focal point -- where and how you spend your most valuable time. if you spend it masturbaaaiting, then you're worshipping sex. if you spend it, watching tv, same thing, although this could be argued, depending on what you were watching and how it applied to your normal focal point.

what sets religions slightly apart, is that they work, metaphorically, and converse, spiritually, with a being or beings from other dimensions/universes/planets, whatever, that are not physically available in 3d reality on a regular enough basis to suggest they exist to the skeptical (although you'd be hard pressed to prove the only sentient life in existence is 3d or even in this universe).

I tend to approach things from an etymological stand point.
Worship from the Saxon weorðscipe from weorð,
meaning "reverence paid to a supernatural or divine being."

I see what you're saying though, and agree to a point. The problem, in regards to religion, comes from blind faith. "I will do what this person/being says because they say it, and I believe they said it, though I've never heard them say it myself, and neither have the people who wrote down the original "quote", and even though there is no proof that this person/being who said what was said even existed."

Worship, from an etymological definition, isn't necessary.

i have tracked the goddess, all over ancient history. and let me tell ya, we ladies got jipped. the goddess features the most prominently in cultures where women have absolutely no value at all. since this was not the teaching of jesus regarding women, it seems the fact we had to endure another 2000 years of inequality is related to the pagan+christianity we know today as catholicism.

I have to disagree with this as well. You should research the Celts, who had both goddesses and held women to a high esteem. They were seen as complete equals, and in some cases would be sent to fight along side of the men.