Is Christianity Really Brainwashing?

reply to post by autowrench


I only read half of the original post, because it was so filled with preconceived notions and broad generalizations, I didn't figure the rest was going to be any different, and I already have my response prepared, which is...

I am a Christian, and not a single part of the first half of the original post applies to me or the church I attend (when I actually go.) I know there are churches and people who your broad-brush statements do apply to, but that's like the fearful paranoids who believe that all Muslims are terrorists, when in reality, probably only 0.01% of Muslims are terrorists.

As far as it being impossible for all of these different religions to be "right", since they stand in opposition to each other, it seems you're focused far too much on certain superficial specifics instead of the deeper knowledge behind religions. I would expect most visitors to this website to be more capable of seeing more deeply into the occult knowledge contained within all religions and how they're not anywhere near as mutually-exclusive as you think they are.

This post would have been better if, instead of directing it toward "Christianity" and "Christians", you directed it toward "Certain hateful, dark-side Christian groups."

reply to post by andersensrm


Well I doubt that matters tbh as it isn't important what colour he was, it's the stink he left behind that bothers me.

reply to post by autowrench


First let me say that most churches teach things that are not Christianity as defined by the bible.

Does Christianity forbid asking hard questions about its doctrines?

No, the bible tells us discussing doctrine is an essential part of our fellowship and that it is ok for us to accept our differences in opinion.

Does Christianity forbid questioning of its leaders and their doctrine or behavior?

The leaders that we are not to go against are our government leaders. The church leaders are to be held to the highest biblical standards by all members of the church. Everything that they say or do should be compared to scripture, in this way we can identify false teachers.

Do Christian organizations whose primary focus is fundraising, and who may even resort to deception in order to line the pockets of their leaders? Is it not true that some of these leaders live in luxury, while the one paying them live in poverty?

I will let scripture answer this. It is acceptable for a teacher at a church to receive support but Paul puts it this way. 2 Thessalonians 3:6-8
6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you.

Do Christians not target young people, the elderly, and others who might be vulnerable to exploitation?

Christians do not do this but False Teachers target anyone they can steal from. You must understand that the problem with Christianity is that no one has truly questioned the church in over 1000 years. Catholics teach have incorporated many Pagan holidays, even changing the day of worship to Sunday to accommodate Pagan’s. They also teach many things that have no scriptural basis. Baptist, Orthodox, and many others teach their members that everyone else is going to hell. Protestants teach such a watered down version it’s hard to see how anyone doesn’t question them. If anyone reads the bible they will understand that all churches, maybe not all Christians, but all churches have fallen far from sound doctrine.

How can Christians be so sure they're right and everyone else is wrong? Isn't that arrogant? Isn't that evidence of a large ego?

First let me tell you that most are just parrots repeating what they have heard, they do not have a clue what they are saying. Most have never read the bible cover to cover and if they have they don’t study it daily.
I know this is going to sound cliché. But I know that the bible is real because God has done what he promised. His Spirit lives inside of me and I truly feel like my old self has died and I have become a new creation. You see here is the difference between me and other Christians. I believe in a literal interpretation of these verses.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

I John 5:4 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

The literal interpretation of these verses is anyone who is born again and filled with the Holy Spirit stops willfully sinning. I believe that this is what we are called to do. You see if I say that I am born again a new creature but I keep on sinning I disgrace the cross and all that it stands for. I have been called to stop willfully sinning. This does not mean that in my stupidity I might do something wrong. I may even have a poor reaction to something but I am clearly being guided to stop sinning.

It is my opinion that anyone who disagrees with a literal interpretation of these passages and the many more that are like them is not filled with the Holy Spirit, or at least is not letting the Spirit guide them.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by autowrench

 

To the op, i am a christian, questioned the bible, questioned church leaders, and questioned all versions of christianity as well as studying all religions n philosophies in my spare time.

What i did find is that studying the bible, praying, meditating, and getiing rebaptized, i underwent tremendous mysticl awakenings, spiritual changes, and started to directly experience an Infinite beingness.

What also happened in the 10+years since then is that ive been detaching from the programming of the world. I no longer buy into repblican or democrat, im no longer prideful nor do i care about being an american, my race, my creed, and my gender. In a sense ive gone beyond the world and its BS dramatic stage plays.

Im experiencing infinity, so i look at evetyone and everything in a very loving and detached matter. I woudlnt trade my christ and how ive been permanently change because of him, for all the money, power, women in the world.

If anything, ive been released from all brainwashing inuding anything the world or church as well as the ops post

"My christ"
"Him"....rubbish.
You have experienced contact with Yourself, you are god, you are christ, as is everyone.
We are all part of one system.
You are still programmed to be submissive to a fictional jesus.
Anyone called jesus , and what is described is merely a man who has experienced contact with himself, and realised the tremndous power we all have.
gravitor

reply to post by autowrench

Logically speaking, it is simply not possible for all the major world religions to be valid ways/paths to God.

See the answer above to why I believe the bible is the true religion from God. I believe that most of the world’s religions were written by men who were trying to be good and I believe that anyone who sees the good in them and tries to follow that good way is on the right path. I do believe that Jesus was the son of God and he is the Judge and that he is the way.

Christianity states that the God of the BibleYahweh is the only true God and salvation is only possible by accepting Christ as one's Savior and Lord. Judaism states that the God of the Torah/Old Testament is the only true God, and that Jesus is not the Messiah, putting it directly at odds with Christianity. Jesus either is the Messiah, or he is not. If he is, Judaism is not a valid way to God; if he is not, Christianity is not a valid way to God. The mutual exclusion only grows when other religions are added: Islam says that Allah is the only true God, and that anyone who says Christ is the Son of God will be condemned (Qur'an, 5:72, 9:30). Furthermore, if religions other than Christianity are valid ways to God, then one of Christianity's basic principles is false; in that case, can it still be said to be a valid, trustworthy religion?

This is not as complicated as Christians make it. Jesus is the son of God and the Bible is the true story. No one goes to the father except through the son. Yes Jesus is the Judge of all mankind believers and unbelievers. I cannot be sure of anyone’s salvation only my own. Jesus says that not everyone who claims to be a Christian will go to heaven. I am told not to judge any unbeliever that God will Judge them. God is capable of doing anything he wants. Just as I cannot be certain of anyone’s salvation I can also not be certain of anyone’s condemnation. If anyone says anything else they have put themselves in the seat of Christ and this is blasphemy.

Is Christianity is intolerant of other beliefs?

Not in the least. If I am intolerant how can I get them to listen to what I believe? I must remain tolerant and loving so they can see that God truly does live in me. By seeing that God lives in me they may convert even when at first they rejected the message. Now the bible does tell Christians to stay away from unbelievers so that they are not swayed, and I feel that for new believers or believers that are weak in the faith that this is good advice. For me I don’t believe that my faith can be shaken by others, but if I felt like it were than I too should flee from those who are weakening my faith.

I have seen this intolerance many times, in this forum, and in real life.
Tell a Christian you are Wiccan, you very quickly are told that you work for Satan, or are in league with Satan, or Demons, or that you are a Demon, or are possessed by Demons. It is nearly the same if you tell a Christian you are a Buddhist, a Hindu, Taoist, or follow the Native American ways. Isn't it true, and the way if the Christ, that we shouldn't pass judgement on, or condemn these beliefs as being morally wrong? Or sinful?

Yes you are not to pass judgment, but I beg you to be kind to my brothers even though it is understandable when you are not. You see most of what they say has been taught to them by false teachers. They do not understand what they are doing. They can’t see what you as an unbeliever already know. They are killing the faith with this false doctrine. They indeed are subjecting Christ to public humiliation each time they don’t act in a loving manner. And telling someone they are going to hell is not loving. What is loving is to tell someone that you will pray for them. Both believers and unbelievers know that if I say I pray for you it is the ultimate act of faith and love that I can show you.

This is why I try to remember to tell all unbelievers at the end of my posts that I pray for them. Because I do love you all and I do want you to feel the same love in you that I have in me. And although through God all things are possible I don’t know how you will ever feel this love if you don’t have faith in Christ. So I pray for you because I wish to see you full of Joy like me.

reply to post by dominicus


My version of what can only be construed by most as "paganistic belief" unlocked the same awakening within myself, which proves, in a way, that religion isn't the sole catalyst to spiritual awakening. I'm sure Autowrench will likely convey a similar story.

reply to post by autowrench

If someone has a bad disease, telling them that they don't need to seek medical treatment, but to only trust in the Lord, is a wrong thing to do. Isn't it true that a Doctor can help, perhaps faster, and with better results, than prayer?

Each person should do what they feel in their heart to do. Although prayer is always good, if someone thinks they should go to a doctor than they should. Going to a doctor is not a sin. The livitical code made the high priest in essence a doctor as well. If one has complete faith and they choose not to see a doctor than they can be sure that God’s will be done.

Whether or not basic Christianity is true or false is a topic of much debate, which is clearly evident in this forum, and elsewhere. It is my contention that when a group, any group, claims to have an exclusive hold on TRUTH, we all tend to immediately doubt the claims of that group. Does Christianity make such a claim? It does claim that Jesus is the only way to God, basically stating that there is only the one path, and all other paths are either morally wrong, or sinful, or the direct path to Hell.

Jesus says that he is the only path to his father. But the New Testament also says that anyone who believes in Christ has become a Jew. Anyone who is not a Jew will be judged by the law. So although again I claim that the bible is the path to God. I am not the judge and all things are possible for God.

Christianity claims there is good evidence, and lots of it for the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. But truthfully, this evidence is mainly confined to the [canonized] New Testament texts and gospels which were retold from oral/verbal story-telling, (no doubt big in the days before Radio and TV) and various non-inspired written accounts of the life and death of Jesus. The Romans kept meticulous records of everything, and there are no records bearing the name, or the execution of Jesus, to the best of my knowledge. Also, do not forget, there were many men named Jesus at the time:
A Surfeit of Jesuses

There is more historical evidence for the biblical Jesus and the Crucifixion and resurrection than any other event from 500 AD and before. Also to be noted is there is not one document or piece of evidence from that time period that makes the claim that any of this was false. Based on your argument we have to throw out all history prior to 1000 AD because we simply don’t have enough evidence to teach it.

This man Jesus is best thought of by secular people as merely another failed Jewish prophet, and human a man, a wise teacher and sage, and nothing more. There were many of these in those times. A lot of them met a violent end, too.
Upon his shocking crucifixion, his disciples had visionary experiences of him and concluded just like theMillerites, the Jehovah’s witnesses, and other similar religious groups that their God was providing a new direction for their cult. In the case of the early disciples they concluded from these visions that Jesus was still alive and that the end of the world would come very soon, within their lifetime.It is my contention that this "historical evidence" is very poor evidence to believe in such extraordinary claims, like the claims Christians must believe in anyway. (or else!)

Again I don’t need the historical evidence as the Holy Spirit lives in me as I stated above. And the new way is a whole new philosophy that no church that I have found teaches today. This is too much to go into in this response.

Christians will claim they have a religious experience which counts as good evidence for what they believe, like an inner witness of the Holy Spirit. This is so bogus of an argument it’s hard to even start. When a believer has a religious experience it is really hard, if not psychologically impossible, to argue him away from his beliefs. It is basically the same with people who have had the ET/UFO experience, once experienced, it would be virtually impossible to make the person think he or she did not really have it. It is the same for a non Christian to have a vision. The vision may be very real for the one having the vision, but to a Christian is it Satan or a Demon trying to fool you. I have been told this many times.
Of course, if a devout Christian has a vision it is fully accepted as coming from God.

First the great thing about faith is I don’t need your approval to have it. About visions, all spirits and visions should be tested against scripture. If they contradict scripture they are not from the Holy Spirit. I will add this scripture again from the bible.
I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

reply to post by autowrench

And what of those who say they speak to the dead? Christianity teaches that humans have but one life only, and when one dies they either go to Heaven or Hell, and nowhere else. I call attention to
I Samuel 28:11-16: The Witch of Endor. The Witch of Endor reveals that she saw Gods (plural) ascending out of the Earth. There is much debate as to whether or not the apparition that was conjured up by the witch was the real Samuel. The witch described Samuel’s appearance to Saul as being an old man covered in a mantle. A mantle was a type of robe, or coat for the upper portion of the body. There was something about this mantle that convinced Saul that the apparition was indeed Samuel.

The bible implies that many strange spiritual things are possible but it does not tell us whether these things are real or not. The bible makes clear that demons are real so it is possible that demons could take the form of the dead. Since the bible is unclear and I am told not to do these things I will leave this for all of you to decide.

I myself have spoken of my Grandfather, who came to visit me, and took me with him for a night of travel and talking that enthralled me. I have also seen, and spoken to my Father, and two friends, all of whom are dead. I also have had conversation with ET Beings.
I have told these things to Christians, who told me it was actually a Demon, fooling me, and not who i thought it was at all. How does one defend against this?

The bible does not say that this is not possible. You will have to decide for yourself. With God all things are possible.

I believe there are many people in the world today who are very deluded by their religious beliefs, even to the extreme in some cases. How do you know that you are not one of them, having been brainwashed by the very culture you were brought up in? How do you know? You must consider this a possibility for it’s a fact that brainwashed people do not know they have been brainwashed.

I believe you are correct, organized religion has taught a lot of false doctrine. I do not judge my brothers who have been lead away from the path nor do I judge those that earnestly believe that what they are teaching is right. I pray for them all the same as I pray for you. I know that I have not been brainwashed because I have been changed by the spirit. And I pray daily that the Holy Spirit guides me away from sin in everything that I do because I don’t want to bring disgrace to my brother Christ Jesus.

My claim is that most who call themselves Christian are brainwashed. Demand good evidence along with good reasons for why you believe, believe you know. It’s that simple.

Thank you for your concern as I too am concerned for them and for you. I know that what I believe is the truth. For everything that I believe I constantly compare to scripture and I in no way contradict the scripture of the bible. But instead I bring the loving message to light where others have drowned the message in darkness.

My father in heaven I pray for my Christian brothers, that they may see by claiming they are Christians and not following in your way that they make it impossible for autowrench and many like him to have faith. I pray this in the name of the Son Jesus Christ.

My brothers it is time to throw away are sinful nature and time to follow the Holy Spirit. Many of us believe the end times are near, save your brother by loving him not condemning him. With love to all believers and unbelievers.

Originally posted by FeatherofMaat
Absolutely it is brainwashing. It's the only way to get people to believe in an invisible man, magic, etc.

Its the same brainwashing used throughout history to get the gullible to believe in god.

If you knew anything of quantum physics (which, understandably, many don't) you would realize how ridiculous your statement here is. Believing in god/gods/whatever makes you as gullible as believing in the keyboard you're typing on.

Originally posted by captaincosmic
reply to post by andersensrm

 

Well I doubt that matters tbh as it isn't important what colour he was, it's the stink he left behind that bothers me.

Yea, but it doesn't really matter what we're arguing about, because we are still arguing about a being that doesn't exist, or a being that does exist, and thus would have been some kind of E.T. in which case, we shouldn't be worshipping it. I think that in a way all religions are correct, becuase they all are metaphoric, people confuse the metaphors to be an outward expression, but it is an inward expression. What I mean by that is, when these religions were being created by our ancestors, they were metaphoric to that god which created our universe is what lies in us all. Our consicousness. The difference between a dead person and a live person. The thing that connects us all with everything in the universe. This information origianlly came from within us, and we at that time had no idea how to articulate such a thing. Using the metaphors was a way to explain it. However now people look to the metaphors as something literal. Then they take the religion and use its incredibly interpretive sayings to justify anything that they could possibly concieve of doing. This is wrong, and anyone who can honestly say that there is a being, who is looking after all of us from heaven, is just plain whacko

reply to post by autowrench


The religion itself isn't brainwashing, the people who misinterpret its teachings and lead particular churches and branches of it do.

2nd

Originally posted by curious7
reply to post by autowrench

 

The religion itself isn't brainwashing, the people who misinterpret its teachings and lead particular churches and branches of it do.

2nd

Damn he hit the nail on the head

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by undo

 

????? I have no idea what you are trying to explain with that one

READ THIS WHOLE THING, don't stop till you get to the end of it. this is important.

well, let me see, as a metaphor, god is the father creator of the human race, yes?
in the opening creation of the adam passages, it identifies the creation of males and females, who were collectively called the adam because they were created in the images of adam.

you have to look very closely at those passages as they are super condensed, and translated into english, during which generational layering was apparent. adam is a plural word. there was not one adam, there were many adam, and the many adam were created in the image of the many adam who were males and females.

some who have read this closely, have gotten hung up on that passage insisting that it means the first adam was both female and male, a hermaphrodite. but that's not what it's saying. it's also not saying that it's evidence of ancestoral worship.

to solve this enigma you must realize the author was moses, who was raised as an egyptian. the descendants of noah settled egypt and ethiopia after the black sea flood and took the same history to egypt, that was in sumer and akkad. anyway, their word for god (as in the creator god) was ATUM, which is the source of the word adam. and it is also a plural word. in effect, the creator god turns out to be many gods, some of whom are male and some of whom are female. and the first adam race was cloned in their images. it's right in the text, and i can prove it.

new adam were only created by cloning, and were cloned from a group of males and females who had eternal bodies. now one of the adam females dna is modified as is one of the adam males, to be procreative, et.al, they gained the knowledge (to know was to have sex with) of the gods, et.al, to create new life from themselves but it wasn't cloning, it was procreation.

thusly why it says eve would give birth in pain, because prior to that, new adam were created via cloning and there was no pain involved. read it like it's telling a real story, and this stuff will hop off the page and explain itself in detail.

anyway, as a result of having eternal bodies that were also capable of procreation, another modification was made,which is the reference where it says the way to the tree of life was blocked, et.al, our dna was modified so that we have a gradual cascade decay into a death and disease spiral. we didn't start out that way. we originally had eternal physical bodies. eve wasn't the first human female, she was just the first one to be modified to procreate.

reply to post by dominicus


You have had an Awakening Experience. And it doesn't really matter what we attribute it to, whether it be Jesus or any other dogmatic religious (or not) entity or energy-force we may deem to be responsible. The important thing is that we see things for what they are, rather than what we have been taught and conditioned into to believe in. Truth is in everything, it's for us to... Dis-Cover! ...no matter who or what you believe in. Peace.

Religous people are 100% brainwashed. They are taught to believe in something they can't see. Thats why they have such a problem with fiction. They are taught not to believe in any other fiction then the one they've learned. Thats why they have such a problem with santa clause or harry potter. Convince a person of something

reply to post by gravitor

"My christ" "Him"....rubbish. You have experienced contact with Yourself, you are god, you are christ, as is everyone. We are all part of one system. You are still programmed to be submissive to a fictional jesus. Anyone called jesus , and what is described is merely a man who has experienced contact with himself, and realised the tremndous power we all have. gravitor

Christ dont belong to me, simply saying i investigated christ as a spiritual scientist and found later on that i too wasexperiening holy spirit experiencesand the same kind of things jesus talked about. Panned out for me because i looked into it genuinely and withheld all of my "rubbish" conclusions until supernatural things begin to happen to a point that others living around me who were nonchristians noticed them.

If you directly experience that we are all one then u wouldnt have the negativity towards christ that you seem to have as that is of the mid and it is the mind that stands inbetwee us and Oneness realized.

To say that ALL Christians are brainwashed and the Bible is a book of lies is about as blind and pointless as a Christian saying that a Pagan is a demon.

How can we know what religion is correct, if any are? The plain truth is, I suppose we cannot. There are so many parts of today's Bible that make me scratch my head and ask, "How could a God that is supposed to be love defined demand such horrible things as what are found in the Biblical texts?", or "How could a God make us and put us on Earth - several of us, only to suffer - and demand that we worship Him so we can spend eternity with Him... and why would I want to?".

On the other hand, look at a lot of the prophecies made in the Bible. Some of the prophecies are so vague that of course you could twist it into becoming true. However, there are a lot of prophecies that, when put together, have astronomical odds of coming true... but yet they are, more every day. I direct you to an interesting site: raptureready.com/rap2.html. It is the "Dow Jones" of Biblical prophecy and how it is unfolding. Depending on the week, the "Prophetic Dow Jones" loses points. Other weeks, prophecy activity is high, causing the points to rise. It is a truly fascinating thing to watch.

Anyway, what's my point? There are a couple. The first being that, as I said, calling all Christians brainwashed is a very blind and pointless pseudo-observation. Not all are brainwashed, though you do have to wonder about some of them. My other point is that there is really no way we can know, for sure, which religion - if any - are truly 100% accurate and correct. The Bible has been revamped and changed so many times over history that calling it the true Word of God is questionable.

It all boils down to the free will that we, as humans enjoy. If you want to put your faith in a religion, we have the right to do so. If you do not wish to do so, well... you have that right, as well. It raises the question, are those who do NOT follow a religion the brainwashed ones? It's up to you, personally, to decide and answer and whatever answer you come to, it still boils down to being true for you and you only.

To answer the OP, I am going to refer to something Doug Stanhope.said in one of his bits, though
I believe it should include all religions, not just Christianity.

Wow surprised Non of the Board regular Christians havent been on here at least to try and defend their faith, maybe you got thru to them OP

reply to post by boymonkey74


I am not sure who the regular Christians are that you refer to or why they need to defend their faith? I could have sworn faith was a personal freedom we all have a right to. I may not agree with everyone else's faith, but I will defend their right to have it whatever it may be.

Cheers

reply to post by undo


Okay, It seems that you possess a great deal of knowledge. However I think that the main purpose of religions, or a religion, is to determine where all life originates. If we are but a clone of the adam, and god directed this whole thing, who created adam, more importantly who created god. They didn't just pop into existence. And to say that they have just been around forever, doesn't make sense. So when I approach the whole religion thing, I am looking at for where life originated. To say that we are just a clone, isn't really an answer to it. If this is something that actually happened, The only way I can comprehend it, is this god, and adam, as we know it are some sort of E.T.'s. But then that leads to the question "who created the E.T.'s?". My thought on this, is simple. All living things have consciousness. There are different levels of consciousness. Connected through all levels and all living things, is a universal consicousness, a sort of cloud if you will, that is made up of all individual consciousness. In the beginning this univeral consciousness may have stemmed from something simpler, ( im not sure what, we're talking about before the big bang here), and then for whatever reason evolved into what it is now. Our consicousness is what makes up dark matter, which is holding our galaxy together at this moment. We should be praying to ourselves, and looking for the answers within, becuase that is where they lie, the problem is people are confused, and look outside of themselves to "god" for the answers