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Is Christianity Really Brainwashing?

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posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by chocise
 


Did Christianity 'turn the other cheek' when they delivered a halocaust to the Native Americans, those 'savage heathens', you so proudly display as your avatar?

Did they 'turn the other cheek 'when they burned women at the stake for understanding herbs?

Selective memory only works in the pews, my friend, not here.


The stake burning was an example of cultural corruption that was becoming rampant in the Church of the time.

Mysogynistic psychotic latent sexual perverts, packing up into a known societal power group to push their perversions.

They'd do this with any societal power group given the opportunity. This just happened to the be the available one at the time, and one that protected them from being critically questioned.

The natives - that happened in Europe as well, and it was something between a failed social experiment, and an attempt at increased control. The religion behind it is irrelevant, the process remains the same regardless of their story.

Corruption - it isn't religious and it isn't race based. By making it into what it is not, you successfully set the stage for never actually dealing with the reasons why it sets in.
edit on 2011/12/30 by Aeons because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by LunaKat
 





Hi Gabby, it might surprise you to know that some of us Pagans believe that Mary is a later incarnation of the Goddess. The Goddess is also The Mother of All. Its interesting that when there are visitations on Earth they usually are female. If that seems strange to you it probably seems just as strange to Protestant that Catholics even believe in these visitations. Anyways just wanted to tell you about that


I was aware of the Goddess.."mother of all" from pagan religions.. but this "mother of all" does not point the way to the sacrifice of Jesus as the road to redemption and salvation...as the Holy mother of Jesus does.

I realize that many think these visitations strange.. but many souls have been converted through them.. and more prayers have been said for mankind because of them.

Those who say that Jesus was just another God.. or that His mother is just a pagan goddess.. will have their eyes and hearts opened one day.

I choose to believe in her messages as well as other messages.. that is not blind faith.. that is faith in something very tangible.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Okay, so it's not Christianity's fault, it's...mine?

My bad.

The same could be said for Hitler.

It wasn't the Nazi's fault, it was a climate of corruption within the hierarchy that allowed the killing of millions of Jews.

A bit revisionist, isn't it?

Adults take responsibility for their own actions, and, so far, Christianity is either unwilling or unable to do that.

Millions have died because of the infallibilty of your 'Faith.'

That is why it continues, not because of me.

edit on 30-12-2011 by jimnuggits because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul

I asked my father-in-law once what kept him going to church, and he didn't say "love", he said because he'd go to Hell if he didn't respect "Jesus and the lord." If fear keeps you Christian, then you really need to question the motives of the God your religion is preaching about.


I respectfully disagree. If fear keeps you Christian, then you need to question what kind of relationship you really have with God in the first place. To say you need to question the motives of God is like saying my daughter should question my motives and my love for her every time I choose to discipline her.


You misunderstood. I said you need to question "the motives of the God your religion is preaching about." Not God's motives. God, if you believe in a one and all powerful being, would be nothing like the God being taught about in Churches. God wouldn't care about things like worship or tithing. These are mortal ideas. The single path to God/Heaven is also a false claim religions like to preach.


So, tell me a little more about your God. Does He have the power and authority over life? Does he acknowledge sin? What makes Him different? Why doesn't he care about worship?
edit on 30-12-2011 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)


My "God" isn't a deity, if that's what you're asking. My god exists in all things and is reflected in both "positive" and "negative" energies. My god is the power of the mind, which makes me as much God as the next man or woman... or tree or rock. Science is finally beginning to prove my theories correct as we're learning more and more about time and space and the influence the mind has on reality.
"Sin" if you want to take it at it's modern definition (not it's true definition by the way) has no meaning in the sense that if I killed someone I shall be punished for an X amount of time in a horrible horrible afterlife. "God" or the universe doesn't judge me or you. You do a good enough job judging yourself. If you wrong someone, and you know it was wrong, then you have to live with that and any consequences that may come about from said wronging. We usually call this balancing act "karma."
God (energy), making up all things including us, wouldn't need worship, though respect would be nice.
Respect yourself, your neighbors, property, nature, animals, history.
I think we can all rally behind this particular creed, and "God" as a deity isn't necessary to practice it.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
Wow surprised Non of the Board regular Christians havent been on here at least to try and defend their faith, maybe you got thru to them OP


I have better things to do and could care less how others view me. Reading peoples responses to posts like these just make me like people a lot less here on ATS.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by WhoKnows100
"And yeah you're right the NT does contract the OT in a lot of places. And the religion that comes out of all of that is to be non-changing. The more we learn about ourselves or our world will have no effect on that religion.. It is a religion that is not to evolve.

Human beings evolve..we're not the same people as the Victorians for example. And generally we upgrade our values and thinking as time passes. And religions that are viable today also evolve. That one won't though and I think its gonna be its own downfall."

It only seems contradictory until you understand God's word "The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.". And that's exactly what happened and the NT fully supports everything.

I love this reason called "evolved". Does one use that excuse to kill people, steal, rape, rob, disrespect our parents? Is that truly the excuse one would use to justify ANY of these things? I stole but it's okay because I have EVOLVED? Or are you referring to a homosexual act maybe and in that case one has evolved so it's okay? Plenty of Christians now support homosexuality because they believe the same reason, that's times have changed so Gods word is no longer valid in some aspects. They ignore the "God does not change" bit or believe their church which says that the moral laws are no longer valid. And because they do that, they cannot understand what the flood in Revelation signifies (false doctrines).

You come from a humanist point of view that teaches human can solve all of their own problems and that there is no accountability to a higher power. I take a different viewpoint because of my belief that God is sovereign. But to say that the former has "evolved" and the latter has not is just plain propaganda.

Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda, noted:

"The Fuhrer is deeply religous, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race... Both [Judaism and Christianity] have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end, they will be destroyed."

"National Socialist and Christian concepts are incompatible. The Christian Churches build upon the ignorance of men and strive to keep large portions of the people in ignorance because only in this way can the Christian Churches maintain their power. On the other hand, National Socialism is based on scientific foundations. Christianity's immutable principles, which were laid down almost two thousand years ago, have increasingly stiffened into life-alien dogmas. National Socialism, however, if it wants to fulfill its task further, must always guide itself according to the newest data of scientific researches."

See how it works casually dropping a word like "evolved"? The necessary truth is that all “human rights” come from the God who loves us — what the state gives, the state can take away. Absolute “rights” can come only from an absolute authority – God. The state is a necessary evil which must be kept within strict bounds. And THAT is why God is being removed and our youngsters are regurgitating red propaganda terms.



Whoa whoa whoa get a grip before you start tapping out the keys on your keyboard. Jesus really is not the promise of the Messiah. If you would but look at the reasons the Jewish people reject Jesus you can see that for yourself. He is not really anything like what their Scriptures said to look for.

The fact that some Christians support gay rights and don't just rob and kill and everything else you stated, I'm agreement with. But supporting gay rights is *not* the literal interpretation of the Bible. And a whole other large segment of Christians feels its "sin."

You have no idea where I come from. But it is true I live in this day and age. I'm writing to you on a computer not a stone tablet. We've learned a lot about people since the Bible was written. We are not even the same as the people from the Victorian times. Should we stay back there?

In YOUR religion human rights only come from God. I would not put it that way. Human rights come from what we all as a people decide it should be. And that means people from all faiths not just Christianity. But as to my own beliefs, I would say we are all God and/or Goddess, Mother Father God. I would say that even that is not a good description of the Divine which is really more like Energy. But it does help to personalize things for us. I would say that throughout all time we have myths telling us of God. I would also say that they are ALL myths because the only way to speak about God is by way of story. It is too hard to define God and we are fortunate enough that we have plenty of stories that point the way from all over the world (not just from Israel but that is also one of them).

But now you're comparing me to Hitler?

You people crack me up.

edit on 30-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by Aeons
 


Okay, so it's not Christianity's fault, it's...mine?

My bad.

The same could be said for Hitler.

It wasn't the Nazi's fault, it was a climate of corruption within the hierarchy that allowed the killing of millions of Jews.


Actually, it was absolutely cultural / civilization based, and Hitler was merely the out crop of the discontent. A culture was being punished severely and being oppressed. Locals needed a scapegoat that was more tangible than the elitists of Europe, and the Jews fit the bill. Enter charming well spoken Omega in whose mouth Alphas find their discontent. Align to promote the Omega to Alpha status, speaking to them about their true place.

Yes, it was corruption in the Nazi party. If they had not become consumed with that piece of corruption and focused on a more constructive goal, Europe would all be speaking German today.
edit on 2011/12/30 by Aeons because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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Italian saint Padre Pio reportedly used carbolic acid on his hands, feet and sides to "self-inflict" the wounds Christ endured during the crucifixion, according to a book by professor Sergio Luzzatto.

In his award-winning account dubbed Padre Pio: Miracles and Politics in a Secular Age, the historian describes correspondence between Padre Pio and his pharmacist that suggest the saint used acid to mimic stigmata wounds, according to The Sun.

Padre Pio is a popular saint among Italians, and a survey conducted around 2007 revealed "more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary," according to The Telegraph. In his book, Luzzatto suggests the Vatican succumbed to public pressure to canonize the popular priest.

In an earlier book, The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, Luzzatto examined the same documents found the Vatican archive, but his claims were dismissed in 2007 by the Catholic Anti-Defamation League, according to The Telegragh.

Padre Pio's 'Stigmata Wounds' Caused By Carbolic Acid, Sergio Luzzatto's New Book Suggests

Claims and dismissals. Evidence and pooh-poohs, fakery, fraud to "trick" people. Is it real? Or is it "public fooling" and "brainwashing"? Even if the message was good, why go to the lengths he did (according to this auther) to perpetuate his "stigmata"? Because if he did not, then no one would believe he was to be taken seriously? And if he DID in fact, go to those lengths to fool people, why are they not angry about it?

Is this historian Luzzatto, this award-winning author, who was "dismissed" by the Catholic Anti-Defamation League in 2007 a liar? I doubt it. Would he have written this secondbook, and found a publisher for it who markets it as historical research based on primary evidence (the Vatican archives), if he was mistaken the first time, and called out by the CADL to be humiliated and accused of lying? Why would he do that? Does he just want to make trouble? Or is he trying to spread knowledge that can Deny Ignorance?

Miracles of Saints and Relics

(1) In so far as heathen tendencies had come into the Church with the masses formerly devoted to heathenism, the heathen predilection for the magical and the marvelous, as contrasted with the moral, was rife. There was a certain inordinate greed for the miraculous, and demand tends to create supply. (2) Catholics had a motive to make the most of reputed miracles, in order to outshine schismatics and heretics, who also laid claim to miracles.


The "unthinking populace" WANTED to see magical, miraculous things....they were superstitious, and in the days when the Catholic Church was wanting to control and convince them, they invented all kinds of fakeries just to get those people into the Church, much like David Copperfield or that Angel guy (Chris?).

There are so many resources for people who want to know these things. Why are Catholics so bent on "dismissing" it?



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Way to side step.

You must be a theology student.

So, in effect, Christianity is totally innocent, and things that are done, over and over, throughout the last two millenia, in it's name that are murderous and a menace to decent people everywhere, are a 'cultural' problem.

Can't argue with that logic.

It doesn't even occur to you that you are being hoodwinked, does it?

If Jesus knew he was the son of God, what is the 'sacrifice'?

It's like giving away the quarter in your pocket knowing you have a winning lottery ticket at home.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by FugitiveSoul

Science is finally beginning to prove my theories correct as we're learning more and more about time and space and the influence the mind has on reality..


Oh God, another layperson deluded by the pseudo-philosophy of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics pushed by "popular science" publications. Science evidences no such thing.
edit on 30-12-2011 by PoeteMaudit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by dthwraith
 





I have better things to do and could care less how others view me. Reading peoples responses to posts like these just make me like people a lot less here on ATS.


I think many Christians refuse to engage in many debates..because it is simply not fruitful..

There are those who may think that because Christians don't respond to their comments that they have "gotten through to them".. when in fact it is most likely they are choosing not to engage their time in debate..and may see it more worthwhile to pray.

So to anyone who may think they know the reason why some may not reply to posts or threads.. there is a good chance you are incorrect about the reason behind it.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by LunaKat
 





Hi Gabby, it might surprise you to know that some of us Pagans believe that Mary is a later incarnation of the Goddess. The Goddess is also The Mother of All. Its interesting that when there are visitations on Earth they usually are female. If that seems strange to you it probably seems just as strange to Protestant that Catholics even believe in these visitations. Anyways just wanted to tell you about that


I was aware of the Goddess.."mother of all" from pagan religions.. but this "mother of all" does not point the way to the sacrifice of Jesus as the road to redemption and salvation...as the Holy mother of Jesus does.

I realize that many think these visitations strange.. but many souls have been converted through them.. and more prayers have been said for mankind because of them.

Those who say that Jesus was just another God.. or that His mother is just a pagan goddess.. will have their eyes and hearts opened one day.

I choose to believe in her messages as well as other messages.. that is not blind faith.. that is faith in something very tangible.


No the Goddess does not point the way to Jesus. Thats because Jesus is just 2000 years old and the Goddess goes back way way before that.

I'm hoping in the way that you hope that Christians will one day see that its all the same Goddess (or God or Great Spirit or Energy). And I'm also hoping that one day Christians will drop all the stuff they're clinging to that keeps people divided. Either that or in all honesty I'll cheer the day that Christianity bites the dust and is lost to history. Because its already starting to fall apart and its due to this inflexible unchanging religion with all its threats and hatred.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by chocise
 


Did Christianity 'turn the other cheek' when they delivered a halocaust to the Native Americans, those 'savage heathens', you so proudly display as your avatar?

Did they 'turn the other cheek 'when they burned women at the stake for understanding herbs?

Selective memory only works in the pews, my friend, not here.


Christianity delivered no halocast, people did. What part of that do you not understand?



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by chocise
 


So very semantical.

Then I guess you could say that Christianity has never done anything wrong, since, the whole religion is just words on a page.

Too bad we can't go back and tell all the people who were murdered in Jesus' name that they should rejoice in Christianity, since it was people who killed them, not the religion.

Totally Bogus argument.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





There are so many resources for people who want to know these things. Why are Catholics so bent on "dismissing" it?


There are many false resources wildtimes.. the devil is alive and well..and continues to thrive on this earth.

Padre Pio was a great man of God.. and much devoted to prayer and the conversion of souls. The devil does not like having souls taken away from him.. so he convinces some humans to work for his cause in trying to lie about others.

Padre Pio was no fraud.. and is indeed in heaven as you read this.. praying for your salvation and for your heart to be opened to the truth and Mysteries of the Holy Spirit.






edit on 30-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


Yes, corruption is your fault if you accept and embrace the circumstances that create it or fail to challenge them where they exist.

Replacement of one type of corruption with another is not a form of effectively dealing with it.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


I could say the same to you.

Only difference is, I'd have logic and two thousand years of unrevisionist history on my side.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


Most of the wars you are referencing were culture based, and the religion of the area was a rallying point. Particularly where the other groups in question were also rallying around a religion.

This effect is hardly limited to Christianity.

Incompatible or competitor culture-meme-structures. And yes, you have every right to protect yourself against an aggressor, or protect your interests.

Reducing arguments, and removing information that does not support your contention is not logical. It is a form of illogic, or an outright lie that most parents will recognize when their child does it.
edit on 2011/12/30 by Aeons because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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What I've noticed from people who attack Christianity (a word created by the world) is instead of gathering from their own experiences, continually changing perspective, or research they are following the same false ideals of those who choose to fault find with not their own ideas but that of others, that could be just as false (if you so say)

Jude 1:16
These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.


2 Peter 1:16

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

1:17
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.



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