Is Christianity Really Brainwashing?

reply to post by LunaKat

As I told you before the one you call the Mother Mary is to some Pagans --especially Christo-Pagans but some others as well-- the Goddess. And the fact that she is so loving is a thing that Pagans also believe about Her. And She has appeared and requested Her church be built on the very site of where Her temple was destroyed before (at least in the Guadalupe visitation in Mexico). She is very very loving. Not arguing that but we believed that anyways.

the Guadalupe visitation in mexico .. was the virgin Mary...and she asked for prayers of the rosary..and gave a great sign .

"And the land was polluted with blood," by idolaters who sacrificed their sons and daughters to devils. (Ps. 105:38)
Such was Mexico when Hernando Cortes arrived there in 1519. Some ten million native Nahuatl Indians formed a vast confederation of tribes at this time.
These tribes were dominated by the powerful Aztecs who, for all their intelligence, industry, and valor, were equally barbaric, enslaved by an extravagant system of idolatry which placated its numerous gods with gruesome orgies of human sacrifice and cannibalism.
For centuries torrents of blood literally flowed from the temple pyramids, with as many as 20,000 humans being sacrificed in one day.

Now because of this great wickedness ^^ stated above^^.. the next part of the story is this.

Juan Diego, a simple and God-fearing man, was one of the few converts in the first 10 years. For 6 years he had devoutly practiced the Faith, walking 6 miles every morning to Mass. On Saturday, December 9, 1531, he began his usual pre-dawn journey. As he reached the hill known as Tepeyac, he heard a very wonderful music descending from the top of the hill. It sounded like the sweetest melody of singing birds. Suddenly the singing stopped and a gentle woman's voice was heard from above the mount saying, "Juanito, Juan Dieguito." When he reached the summit, he saw a Lady standing there who told him to come near. He marveled greatly at her superhuman grandeur. Her garments were shining like the sun and the cliff where she rested her feet was pierced with glitter.

The Lady thus spoke to him: "Know and understand well, you the most humble of my sons, that I am the ever Virgin Holy Mary, Mother of the True God for Whom we live, of the Creator of all things, Lord of heaven and earth. I wish that a temple be erected here quickly, so I may therein exhibit and give all my love, compassion, help and protection, because I am your merciful mother... Go to the bishop of Mexico and say to him that I manifest my great desire, that here a temple be built to me."

after the bishop did not believe she sent him a sign..

After reassuring Juan Diego, Our Lady told him to gather the flowers at the top of the hill and give them to the bishop for a sign. But how could this be? Flowers in December, the month in which all vegetation is destroyed by freezing? Flowers on a hilltop full of crags, thorns, and thistles? Reaching the top of the hill, Juan was amazed to find many varieties of exquisite roses of Castella (in Spain), hitherto unknown to Mexico. He placed the flowers in his tilma, a coarsely woven cloak of cactus fibers, and set out for the bishop's house.

So let me ask you this lunakat.. is this the pagan goddess you refer to that appeared in Guadalupe and requested a temple be built?

This was the virgin mary..and she was asking for a church to be built.. so the graces of God could eradicate the wickedness that was going on.

This is the same virgin Mary who ALWAYS points to Christ for salvation.. and not only that..points to the graces received through the sacraments of the Catholic church.

This is the same virgin Mary who has appeared and given the rosary as a form of prayer and meditation...and who continually points her children to the salvation in her son Jesus.

This is NOT some pagan Goddess .

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by LunaKat

 

i have tracked the goddess, all over ancient history. and let me tell ya, we ladies got jipped. the goddess features the most prominently in cultures where women have absolutely no value at all. since this was not the teaching of jesus regarding women, it seems the fact we had to endure another 2000 years of inequality is related to the pagan+christianity we know today as catholicism. they adopted the same mindset, prevalent in all the pagan empires before them, including the grecian, the persian, and the babylonian. thusly why people who derive from the geographical area of babylon (muslims etc), have such hard core anti-female rhetoric in their texts. the goddess is the only female that gets any honor. the human women are treated like trash.

edit on 30-12-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)

Well yeah but that is a problem because usually men make all the rules so we get treated like that. And thats been in much of the worlds history. Nodding about Catholicism and how they fostered it. Still nodding at the rest of your post.

Thats gonna change though. This world cannot make it without womens contributions. No how no way. As the saying goes, to keep doing what didn't work and expect different results is crazy. We've had this way for such a long time and it has never worked. Its never brought peace. But things are changing so hang in there. Story isn't finished yet

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by undo

 

Yes we all understand the survival of the fittest motto, But that is a primitive state of being. This is the behavior we see from animals, surely were not going to look backwards in evolution for where we should be heading. We are beyond the survival of the fittest, because we have the technology to keep everyone alive. As long as we stay in the mindset of survival of the fittest, and every man for himself, we'll simply never evolve consicously, and the existence of the human race well probably be confined to earth, while we quarrel with ourselves over stuff that we have so much of, everyone could have exactly what they need for the rest of their lives. This is why we I predict that we are about a 1000 years before we can adopt this type of mentality, the idea is so unfathomable people just can't see it happening. Its kind of like going back 1000 years and arguing with someone why the earth is a sphere and not flat. People couldn't fathom that idea, they couldn't make sense of it, but if you could just get them into space in a space craft and look, they would be like " OHHHHHH! Now I see!" Unfortuantley I have no way of showing people how this system could work. But is I could I think i would get a big "OHHHH!" and Instantly change their minds.

the fact that you're here arguing over this, is also a survival of the fittest mechanism. all debate, war, argument, skirmish, games, competition, is survival of the fittest. you express your viewpoint, someone else expresses theirs.

Arguing over this shows that we are having a discussion to better our understanding, and also to retrieve other perspectives to solve a common problem. This in it of itself is a step towards evolving into a greater state of higher being for both of us. Survival of the fittest has to do with our ability to adapt to our environment. Since technology allows us to change our environment, we no longer need to adapt physically to our surroundings. All that's left is mental evolution. It doesn't make sense pull out a gun and robb your neighbor for water, because most people have access to water. Its the same with energy. I believe we have access to free energy, within the field of electrogravitics, that was made sometime in the 30's. The reason we still don't use it, is because it would eliminate the need for money, and control of people. Instantly everybody could take responsibility for themselves and live with earth not against it. You can take concepts like survival of the fittest and apply it to our consciouisness evolution, it just doesn't apply the same way that we would apply it to animal living on the galpagos islands for example.

reply to post by FugitiveSoul


but that would suggest that people who have experienced things that are or were currently undefinable by science, are all liars. this, of course, doesn't mean those experiences are all truthful or are even from the source the person experiencing them believes. my view is, this is a test. the scriptures are guidelines for getting along with each other, for learning how to get along with the rest of the universe, universes or dimensions, and for surviving on a hostile planet (you must admit, this is a hostile environment as far as our bodies are concerned. we drown in water, run out of air on mountain tops, die from disease and starvation and dehydration, can be burned, flogged, hacked to bits, blown up, etc. not exactly an optimum environment for 3d, carbon based, soft tissue generating, dna molecule constructs).

First, I didn't read any of your post,

It can be brainwashing, I don't think that was Christ intention, otherwise he would have not said this,

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Gabby, Guadalupe wanted the Bishop to build her a church in the exact spot where Her Temple was destroyed. The people had been converted recently to Catholicism. The only way for The Goddess to get that temple built was to appear as the one the Bishop would recognize --She knew he would only recognize Her if She said she was the Virgin Mary. And then to prove Herself there were the miracles of the roses and Her image.

Had Juan Diego gone to the Bishop and asked for a temple to be built to the Goddess..he wouldn't make it past the door. She knew that. She's not stupid.

The people of that time (as well as today in Mexico) have a blended Christianity. Its a blend of Pagan and Christian beliefs. Like Ireland does. In some places where Catholicism took hold eventually, the only way it was accomplished was by letting the people have some of what they already believed..the Church had to concede. Otherwise they would have failed.

PS..Gabby we're leaving to go pick up some stuff for New Year's. I'll be back later though. If you want links let me know. There is one article that is off-Internet as well that is very good about is..more researched. You can drop me a U2U if you want more.

reply to post by undo


This could be true, actually. Abraham was called out of Ur, and if the Sumerians were descended from the Patriarchs (which the Sumerian kings list seems to corroborate) then they probably were aware of YHWH though had fallen into idolatry. The Israelites did the same thing by adding gods to their pantheon like Asherah. The Ishmaelites/Saracens (derivative of the Greek, 'bereft of Sara') also likely did this with YHWH, by making Him a moon god with several daughters and among a large pantheon of other gods. I always thought that the similarities between the Bible and Sumerian legends, totally lends credence the Bible and prove that Moses or David didn't pull the Penteutuch out of their ears. Some will argue that the Israelites "stole from the Sumerians", assuming that older means more authentic, but really the Bible is more reliable, it just doesn't have the same errors as the Sumerian texts. For example, the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Great Deluge have quite a bit in common, but Utnapishtim's ark measurements are an impossible square, whereas Noah's ark is nautically ideal.

reply to post by autowrench


Sorry, but I don't buy it. Magic has no proof, and it never has. The magicians of old were really just knowledgeable in chemistry and physics.

Magic does not exist. Science does. Magic claims, science does.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by mfilicicchia

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by mfilicicchia

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by MrsBlonde

 

of authority based on a point of view that has been the mainstay of the almost mirror like qualities that these 3 blended monotheistic religions share. Every one says read our book and you will see. And if I don't see what they see, they label me a liar and assume to know my passed present and future. And say all I have said is a lie.
Only God knows those things. Him alone. Or Them. However anyone looks at it.
I agree that the Qur'an has been mistranslated and presented in a poor light by evil men. They just want to justify killing brown people, through fear and generalization of a belief they distort to the public for support. Vile men.
But The Catholics did it to the Gnostic Christians also. And the Hebrew children did it to the Cannanites.

Peace and Safety

Ah, the ol'you don't understand because you can't read argument for Islam. A continuing favourite.

edit on 2011/12/30 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

edit on 2011/12/30 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

When does reading come into this? You misunderstand me. I have been quite put out by both Christians and Muslims. But not all Christians and Muslims.
I actually plan to read the Qur'an from cover to cover as I did the bible several times. I have read sections for the purpose of defending and clarifying the beliefs of people I respected, to those who operated in fear against them. I had to show that the Qur'an did not support extremism in any way.
I had to show them that the scripture before and after the ones presented out of context made clear that they were given clear direction on dealing with invaders. Not world domination.
I have read more then most will take time to. It has made me curious to see the structure as it is truly laid out without media and social blinders involved. But I am following the natural course of my studies. Plus I am in security and am a working musician. And that is a crazy busy life. But I love it.
Incidentally all my aunts and uncles and cousins growing up were Palestinian's from Tel Aviv. They were not blood relatives, but idid not know it mattered growing up. I love them still. I stayed with them many extended periods of times. They welcomed me. Included me as one of their own. I never had any realization that our family beliefs were all that different. I knew their culture was different, but it just never came up that we were different.
Know what I mean?
I believe we are brothers and sisters in this creation. Regardless of how this creator reveals himself to us. Because It will be reconciled in the end for us to see together.
Peace and Safety

reply to post by autowrench


I have no problems by many of these laws. I am actually a very big fan of the Bible's opinion on divorce and other matters. But the old laws were for Israel. Israel doesn't exist anymore, and I don't exactly see modern Israel enforcing them.


Israel also had sanction cities. You had to walk out sinners, and talk with them. I doubt anybody ever talks about that little part.

Point is, Jesus said it very clear. The old law is still present. Yet we do not follow it. Because we are gentiles. Gentiles follow Jesus' word.

reply to post by gabby2011

As far as this scholar who said he was a fraud.. he was also denounced by other scholars..and very highly educated men.

Sergio Luzzatto’s Padre Pio: Miracles and Politics in a Secular Age, an examination of the celebrated-yet-controversial Italian saint, has captured the 2011 Cundill Prize in History at McGill, the world’s most lucrative literary award for a work of historical non-fiction.

The announcement was made at a ceremony at in London, England on Sunday night.

The prize, which was established in 2008 by F. Peter Cundill, an alumnus of McGill University, is worth $75,000 (U.S.).

Luzzatto, the author of four previous works of history, teaches modern history at the University of Turin. The book was translated from Italian into English by Frederika Randall.

Sergio Luzzatto wins 2011 Cundhill Prize in History

The professor has made this claim before, drawing the following reply from the Catholic Anti-Defamation League: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility. We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."

But that response raises more questions than it answers. Is the Church therefore saying that, since canonisation is infallible, it is impossible that any evidence can emerge undermining the grounds for the canonisation? Interestingly, in my experience, controversial saint-making troubles many ordinary Catholics more than doctrines such as transubstantiation. A case in point is St Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei, some of whose critics (including a highly respected priest who knew Escriva) were not given the opportunity by the Vatican to submit testimony that cast doubt on his holiness.

blogs.telegraph.co.uk...

can you provide links to these "respected scholars and educated men" who "denounced" him?

I am unable to find anything except that the Catholic Anti-Defamation League complained, and the public pressured the Vatican to canonize the guy after two prior Popes had refused to do so.

But, I'm sure you'll just say I am lying, like when I pointed out Jesus' study of Buddhism -- I was a liar, and you "fear for my soul"... and this Luzzatto guy, a person with much world-wide acclaim, who looked at original documents, is, of course the devil. Because you just never, ever stop accusing others of lying. Whatever.

Nevermind. Carry on with your slander and false accusations. Very Christian of you.

reply to post by wildtimes


physics isn't spiritual.

In spiritual matters, if it's overly complicated, it's probably fake. It's just a simple rule that I have observed. And thus far, has functioned quite well.

reply to post by LunaKat


i read that the ancient egyptians were a more balanced version, where the women and men were equals. i don't believe the post flood egyptians were anything of the sort. the handful of female pharaohs they had, were usually murdered or committed suicide to escape someone else murdering them first. so if the model you're thinking of is based on our current understanding of ancient egypt, might i suggest you study it further.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Gorman91

 

The spiritual should be no different. If it is true, it is simple.

The Spiritual World is not in any way simplistic, in fact, it is rather complex. Think about it, if spellcasting were easy, and any fool could learn it in a day, look at how the world would be. There is also a evolution factor here too, some Spirits are more evolved than others. Here.... on this plain, I mean. Even the study and research of the Bible is no easy task, I spent almost 8 years in the study of religions. The hard part is cross referencing everything.
Oh, you can just buy yourself a pentagram, and a few Wicca books, and call yourself a Witch. I have seen that. Just like you can buy a cross, carry a Bible around, and call yourself a Christian. I have seen that too.

In a much deeper look at someone experiencing spirits...we are seeing someone creating from their own personal facets of preconceived ideas/images.

Something we forget often, is our power, to create. So often when we are creating to sooth our own desires or resolve our own fears, we think of the experience as something outside of us, separate from us, when its really, such a deep part of us that is 'becoming' through us 'expressing'.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by FugitiveSoul

 

but that would suggest that people who have experienced things that are or were currently undefinable by science, are all liars. this, of course, doesn't mean those experiences are all truthful or are even from the source the person experiencing them believes. my view is, this is a test. the scriptures are guidelines for getting along with each other, for learning how to get along with the rest of the universe, universes or dimensions, and for surviving on a hostile planet (you must admit, this is a hostile environment as far as our bodies are concerned. we drown in water, run out of air on mountain tops, die from disease and starvation and dehydration, can be burned, flogged, hacked to bits, blown up, etc. not exactly an optimum environment for 3d, carbon based, soft tissue generating, dna molecule constructs).

I think people knew more "science" back then than we give them credit for. Look at the pyramids, the structural perfection of New Grange, the Baghdad Battery, Ancient Medicine. So much was lost during the dark ages when entire libraries were burned. People assume, because the resulting civilizations after the dark ages were unknowledgeable, that people were equally ignorant during those days. I don't think so. I think people have always used "Gods" as a way to maintain order out of chaos or power over the weak minded. In short, I do think they were lying to a degree. Plato's allegory of 'The Cave' is a prime example of how men may fool other men into thinking their reality is something it isn't for the sake of control.
In regards to a hostile planet and our "surviving" in such a place; the hostility of this planet is why we're still alive as a species. If life were simpler we'd breed too much, live too long and soon we'd run out of resources. Also, the tough environment is what we have to thank for our ability to form societies. "Live together or die alone." If things weren't so terrible, we'd all be loners, killing, raping, and breeding at will, which would do nothing but hold us stagnantly low on the food chain.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by wildtimes

 

physics isn't spiritual.

In spiritual matters, if it's overly complicated, it's probably fake. It's just a simple rule that I have observed. And thus far, has functioned quite well.

Its called Occam's Razor, look it up

reply to post by kallisti36


i don't think israel screwed up, i just don't think they knew. by the time their history was written down, enlil was the only surviving yahweh reference.

jesus (enki) was like first pharaoh. the problem is, archaeology insists that the pharaonic line started post flood. and while that's technically true for the surviving information of egypt, it is not true for antediluvian egypt. when jesus refers to himself as the alpha and omega, he's saying he was the first pharaoh and he was the last pharaoh. big clue there.

1) Christianity does not forbid asking hard questions about its doctrine. In fact, if we would all ask Jesus himself about His doctrine and just read for ourselves we wouldn't need to rely on anyone else to tell us what to believe.

2) Again, christianity's leader is Jesus and our Father in heaven so ask Him, He has given us His Word in flesh. Read for yourself. Seek and you will find. Knock and it shall be opened unto you.

3) Jesus did not fill his pockets, neither did the apostles. And not even close to a majority of preachers live in luxury. In fact, lovers of money and power throughout history have without shame used any and every avenue to get it which is why reading for yourself is of the utmost importance. We have been warned of wolves in sheep's clothing.

4) Christians target everyone for the good news/ gospel of salvation. The wolves are those exploiting people for their own gain. Our Lord teaches us discernment that we may escape such evil men using religion and christianity as a disguise.

5) Even natural science dictates live men do not die for dead men and especially not in the way the apostles and countless others did for the sake of Christ to change the entire world. The historical impact is undeniable.
As far as arrogance and egotism go, we are not proud of ourselves or a god we created to serve us. Our God created us to serve Him and we are glad to share the good news of salvation to everyone. We joy in our Lord, not ourselves.

6) Which do you find valid:
a) salvation through faith in the one who fulfilled all the law in perfect love, for God is Love,
b) salvation through keeping the law which undoubtedly we've all already transgressed the law falling short
of God's glory.

7) Christianity tolerates life while opposing messages. Religions based on law would not always allow such an advantage.
If Christ says something is wrong and we tell you what he says and you do not like it, take it up with the Judge.

8) "Bad disease" is rather vague terminology. If medical attention can help then so be it but most of the truly bad diseases (ie cancers) have no sure cure, only treatments that may or may not extended life, and may not extend it qualitatively.
Faith and prayer can encourage life and hope in the faltering will of the terminal. It instills quality to life and not just quantity in years. .

9) Christianity does not claim hold on Truth, Jesus gets honored with that designation. He showed us he is the way, the truth, and the life. He is the only example in all mankind of true unselfish love. God is love, and showed us that love by giving us his son to die for our sins. The wages of sin is death as exemplified by God himself through killing an animal to make clothes for adam and eve, hiding their nakedness. That's why he required bloodshed for the remission of sins. And it is now why there is no more remission of sins through any other than the one Son, God's Son, whom he gave to us that we might be redeemed.

10) Cannonized simply means the books were ordered together which in no way detracts from the fact that they are the authentic letters of Jesus followers to the people who would believe and to say they are uninspired would be a falsehood bc these ppl walked in person with Jesus. Now to claim that the main evidence exists only in oral/verbal/and uninspired written accounts, the fact that the 12 (minus judas, plus matthias) along with countless others would go into all the world and die for faith is as much real evidence as is needed to know that Jesus rose from the grave. As i stated before, even natural science dictates a live dog is better than a dead lion. What changed Rome and all the world was something truly Godly, truly supernatural, and it really happened.

11) The problem with the carnal knowledge of the secular is that actually Jesus is either a lunatic bc of his claims or he is the Son of God and there really are no two ways about it.
The difference between Jesus and all those other false christs is that christianity did not disband after the death of Jesus.
We can read in the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 5, Gamaliel warns the council of priests to beware; just as with theudas and after that judas of galilee, in death their sects disbanded and so would christianity if it be of the works of men but if christianity be of God they would find themselves fighting against God himself.
The evidence and proof are not only in word but in the truth of the lives that lived the words, regardless of whether they were ever written.

12-16 to come....

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Oh, Now I understand. All the answers lie with Jesus. Can you tell me what his phone number is again?

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


12) The witness and example of christ and the revealing of the holy spirit of true love to the world so that we may exercise it selflessly is hardly bogus. I dont know how to retaliate to the rant on visions and demons and your experiences with individual believers. However, it is ignorant to claim or think that every vision from a "devout christian" is fully accepted of all other "devout christians" as being entirely prophetic or useful to the community of believers. Some things edify on a personal level and some things edify the church as a whole and they'd all have to be judged on a case to case basis.

13,14,15) christianity does not teach so blanketly without understanding one life only and then either heaven or hell. Jesus descended into "Sheol," a holding place in death for the spirits of men, while he was 3 days in the grave. There is also a paradise spoken of to the thief on the cross. Also, it is written christ will return and raise the faithful dead and take them along with those who are alive in the faith at that moment to be with him forever. "Fire and brimstone or Hell have yet to be created and even then it is for the angels and those who refuse God even after the tribulation foretold of in the book of Revelation.
Communing with the dead is forbidden by God. It doesnt seem legitimate that one could question the viability of visions/ religious experiences while giving full credence to witchcraft and communing with the dead.
If the foundations of your belief system are cracked then perhaps you should find a new foundation to build your house upon. Stop trying to defend witchcraft and godlessness.

16,17) Challenge: Read Jesus words for yourself, compare the message to that of any other belief system including the belief in nothing which intrinsically has no good reason or proof, then decide which path leads to tyranny and death and which leads to victory over and freedom from the two.
Your faith has always been your decision. Will you choose according to your lusts, carnality, your humanity, or will you choose according to the only evidence of Godliness human kind has ever know? Choose.