What Really Happened in Roswell 1947?

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Thanks for the link, I'll have a look.

Yes, absolutely something other than a mundane explanation occured imo. I'd recommend reading the book on the subject by Stanton Friedman, since he did all the original legwork, and knows the case best. I also don't think this was any goverment project, secret or not.

But as people said, you can search these boards alone to find dozens of threads on the subject. Good luck on your search.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
What do ATS members really think occurred in Roswell in 1947? At the end of the day I can't honestly say with any certainty what happened. Was it alien? Perhaps an alien probe? Was there bodies? Or was it something less "alien" and more terrestrial, like captured Nazi rocket technology?

Stars and Flags for this nice thread I think they are probably hiding the alien bodies somewhere in the United States, possibly including from UFO crashes in England, South Africa and Brazil Varginha case (where a Brazilian soldier died of 8 different unknown poison bacteria attacks after he reportedly touched one of the alien's skin, and the U.S. military reportedly took over that case).
The Nazis reportedly recovered a crashed alien spacecraft , reportedly interrogated a surviving alien, and reportedly tried to make copy of the crashed UFO. And Dr. Wernher Von Braun reportedly witnessed at least one of the crashed UFOs and alien bodies at Roswell.

It seems at least FBI released some UFO files, and you can watch this footage of what is supposed to be a surviving alien from one of the crashed UFOs. And from about 5:20 in this CNN Larry King Live - Roswell incident unmasked, Part 2, Frankie Rowe explain that the surviving Roswell alien used Telepathy.

There is this alleged briefing to Ronald Reagan on alien threat from outer space and his speech to UN. According to this alleged briefing at least some of the crashed UFOs originate from Zeta Reticuli starsystem. In this interview Chief Golden Light Eagle "Standing Elk" mentioned that he was in "contact" with one of the Star races who "told him" of 18 UFO crashes in the United States in 1947 from 10 different star races visiting Earth, because "she" (one of the aliens who piloted one of the crashed UFOs) lost focus for just one second that allowed the combination of Atlantean energies, the experimentation of Radars and lightning storm to cause the UFO's engine/guidance system to malfunction that lead them to crash.

What is the verdict on Corso and Marcel?

Marcel Sr. and Jr. confirm that the 'exotic' debris was very unusual (among many other witnesses who witnessed this unusual material), and Marcel Jr. is also interviewed in this Roswell debris tested TV documentary. They also mentioned about an I-beam with unusual hieroglyphic symbols, looks different from the green symbols (also unusual hieroglyphic signs) of the 1991 Russian UFO crash "Grave of the Devil", but still unusual.

Informations show that Marilyn Monroe threatened to hold a press conference to expose what the Kennedys told her about their plans to kill Fidel Castro and JFK's visit to a military base to inspect a crashed UFO and dead alien bodies. Bobby Kennedy reportedly then threatened Marilyn by saying to her >>You begin to stay in my way, and i can do away with people who stay in my way

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer
what happened to that claim about it being a soviet experiment? i didn't get to read all that yet. was that debunked?

Roswell had nothing to do with Soviet experiment. Project Mogul Balloon was claimed to be used for listening to Soviet nuclear bomb tests, but i think we can throw that explanation in the trash bin. Why use Roswell as location to listen to Soviet nuclear bomb tests when it's more logic to use Alaska as location? Fact is they used a B-29 attached with an airborne filter to detect Soviet nuclear bomb tests, and they used Alaska to operate from there, not from Roswell.

It seems the Soviet Union had their own Roswell: UFO files, Russian Roswell, Part 1 , Part 2 , Part 3 , Part 4 , Part 5

Originally posted by Anunaki10

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer
what happened to that claim about it being a soviet experiment? i didn't get to read all that yet. was that debunked?

Roswell had nothing to do with Soviet experiment. Project Mogul Balloon was claimed to be used for listening to Soviet nuclear bomb tests, but i think we can throw that explanation in the trash bin. Why use Roswell as location to listen to Soviet nuclear bomb tests when it's more logic to use Alaska as location? Fact is they used a B-29 attached with an airborne filter to detect Soviet nuclear bomb tests, and they used Alaska to operate from there, not from Roswell.

It seems the Soviet Union had their own Roswell: UFO files, Russian Roswell, Part 1 , Part 2 , Part 3 , Part 4 , Part 5

edit on 28-12-2011 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)

I never believed there was any truth to the Mogul balloon theory either. The response the military reacted with at Roswell always seemed exaggerated to me. I can't believe a routine balloon retrieval or crash would warrant sending a General out and then transporting the material to Texas, and eventally Wright-Patterson.

Thanks for the link to Kasputin Yar. I knew about the base but didn't realize its connection to UFOs. Thanks for the link!!

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Well how about you point me in the direction of what you believe to be the best one that goes into depth and is not derailed.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I wrote a thread about what I think happened when I first came to ATS it’s is basically a explanation of the what some might call the “Russian Mutant” theory but I wouldn’t call it that. Most don’t really like this theory because it discounts Alien’s and makes Americans look bad.

But for those who are interested here is the link

Roswell, An Alternative theory

I read your link. Very interesting. A different perspective.

Its been so long I wonder if we'll ever really know what happened?

Has anyone read the book, "Witness to Roswell?" I bought it over the summer. There is an updated verson that has been revised to contain additional information. It is authored by Thomas J. Carey and Donald R. Schmitt. I found it nicely organized sensibly put together.

Appendix V contains the affidavit of Walter G. Haut. The affidavit reports two crash sites, the one at Roswell and another site approximately 40 miles north. The affidavit provides a brief, yet detailed timeline of the events. Haut discusses the initial press release but does not address any additional stories. It bothers me a little that the subsequent retraction was not addresed. The other things I find odd are: Haut says Ramey allowed him to view the wreckage and the bodies. That seems odd. I doubt that would happen. Haut also reports travelling to a wreckage site and displaying pieces of the wreckage in his office. This is odd also. Additionally, on page 246, the authors state Haut received orders from Col. Blanchard to put out that initial press release. In his affidavit, Haut claims he received that order from Gen. Ramey.

Please see posts below...

reply to post by Cosmic911

I have the book here. I'm busy at the moment but will take a look at the inconsistencies and get back to you. Some of the things you mention don't sound that odd to me.

I don't remember noticing a discrepancy between Haut's memo and the authors claims about who gave the order when I read the book but I'll take a look later.

Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by Cosmic911

 

I have the book here. I'm busy at the moment but will take a look at the inconsistencies and get back to you. Some of the things you mention don't sound that odd to me.

I don't remember noticing a discrepancy between Haut's memo and the authors claims about who gave the order when I read the book but I'll take a look later.

Pimander-thanks for the reply. You are right...I don't know what I was reading but you're correct about the inconsistencies...I was wrong. I just re-read the passages. It was Col. Blanchard that ordered the press release and Blanchard that took Haut into Building 84. Looking back at the relationship between Blanchard and Haut, you're right, it isn't odd at all. I was thinking Ramey took him into Building 84, that's what I found odd. But it seems Blanchard had taken Haut "under his wing" so to speak, so this would not have been inconsistent at all.

Thanks for the reply!!

Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by Cosmic911

 

I have the book here. I'm busy at the moment but will take a look at the inconsistencies and get back to you. Some of the things you mention don't sound that odd to me.

I don't remember noticing a discrepancy between Haut's memo and the authors claims about who gave the order when I read the book but I'll take a look later.

Also, what I did find interesting in Haut's affidavit is that the initial story was released to draw attention from the more important crash. I had never heard that reasoning before. Very cool.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
I never believed there was any truth to the Mogul balloon theory either. The response the military reacted with at Roswell always seemed exaggerated to me.

Yeah, there are too many "holes" in that Mogul Balloon theory, and according to the official report the Rawin targets (of aluminum tin foil) were badly destroyed after they hit the ground, but few years ago they tested how Mogul balloon actually worked, and the test showed that the Rawin targets (of aluminum tin foil) remained intact after they hit the "hard rocky" ground in the desert of New Mexico. So we can throw that official report in the trash bin.

Bill Clinton was not satisfied with the answers in the official Roswell report

Clinton, however, was not satisfied with the answers in the Roswell report. It was another dead end in years of trying to get an answer to the UFO mystery by the President. In short, the President was saying you claim that there was no supporting evidence for ET, but you did not deal with the many claims by witnesses that there were dead alien bodies recovered in the Roswell crash.

With his public rebuke, Clinton effectively forced the USAF to go back and reinvestigate the question of the bodies. This however, ended up in another whitewash by the Air Force in 1997 with a third 231-page Roswell report called “The Roswell Report: Case Closed.” President’s Clinton’s challenge to explain the witness reports of bodies was answered by the explanation that the so-called alien bodies that witnesses reported seeing in the desert in separate incidents were anthropomorphic test dummies that were carried aloft between 1954 and 1959 by Air Force balloons, then dropped attached to parachutes"

The USAF came with the explanation that what the Roswell witnesses saw was not 4 feet tall alien bodies, but 6 feet tall mannequin looking anthropomorphic test dummies used for parachute tests, but the problem with that explanation is that these test dummies were first used first time in 1953 and not in 1947, so the Secret Shadow Government made another huge mistake right there.

I can't believe a routine balloon retrieval or crash would warrant sending a General out and then transporting the material to Texas, and eventally Wright-Patterson.

They would never spend money on transport airplanes to transport weather balloon and Rawin Target material out of Roswell, it would be too stupid and "money out of the window".
And the MPs would never threaten their own military colleagues like for example Savage Dodson with a '45 gun to keep Savage Dodson away from entering Hangar 18 just because of simple weather balloon material. But, an MP obviously did threaten Savage Dodson with his '45 gun, so they obviously did hide something else inside Hangar 18 that others were not allowed to see.

It seems the researchers found out what the Ramey memo says. And not only that. General Ramey was ordered to cover up the UFO crash by using the weather balloon and rawin targets as the official story, Ramey's wife confirm that President Truman payed General Ramey a visit at Roswell, and Truman ordered the MJ-12 to be created in order to cover up UFOs/alien visitation, but in the end Roger Ramey decided to turn his back on the Shadow Government when he said this about the real Roswell debris >>It was out of this world, Son. Out of this world!

reply to post by Anunaki10


Great post. I'm glad you included the Battelle Corporation and Elroy John Center and the connection to Roswell. The Battelle Study from 1949 might be the only piece of evidence we have regarding Roswell debris. When the GAO investigated the Roswell incident they didn't find any records regarding the incident. In fact, I believe they reported that all documents related to Roswell had been inappropriately destroyed.

GAO Report

A copy of the report may be obtained by calling (202) 512-6000

I have always believed that the "real" evidence of UFO visitation is in the hands of the private defense contractors, not the military or the government. Corporations like Battelle, Raytheon, Lockheed, even organizations like the Rand Corporation. Private corporations can keep secrets buried deep, far from the FOIA requests our government and military are subject too.

reply to post by Anunaki10


Wow! That's really breathing life into this thread. Lots of great stuff there I hadn't seen before. .
Thanks.

What Really Happened in Roswell 1947?

That always is the big question, isn't it.

The undisputed FACTS:

1) Something crashed near Roswell and was recovered by the military.

2) The debris was flown to top foreign technology bases in both Ft. Worth and to Wright Field (now Wright Patterson AFB).

3) The US Army issued a press release that went out via paper and radio that they had recovered a flying disc.

4) The US Government has already been caught trying to cover it up, by having different official stories, and even citing Project High Dive as an explanation for the reports of bodies, even though this project wasn't until five years AFTER the Roswell event.

So, what was it? Other than an alien craft, other explanations:

1) A MOGUL balloon. The problem: these balloon trains used off the shelf parts...nothing that would even be remotely thought of as otherworldly material as described by witnesses. In addition, the device wasn't classified, only the purpose. If MOGUL, the debris wouldn't have been flown to foreign tech bases for identification. Also, the timeline only fits if you accept Mac Brazel's timeline after being detained by the military, vs. his earlier statements.

2) Some other, foreign tech. The problem: If so, it wouldn't have remained classified for over half a century. It would have been released to put the rumors to rest ages ago, complete with pics of the now obsolete device.

3) Something we made. The problem: If so, why send it to our foreign tech guys? Wouldn't the creators quickly simply take possession of it? Also, same as above, eventually, it would be obsolete, so why not declassified and then released to silence the rumors?

The testimony:

Numerous military personnel, including officers up to and including even a General have stated they examined the debris and it was otherworldly. The witnesses are consistent in describing the general properties of the debris. The affidavits are easy to find online.

Conclusion:

Since it wasn't something made by a foreign power, or us, it stands to reason the origin is not of this Earth. Whatever it was, it was of enough importance to study quickly, shield it from the public, and threaten and intimidate witnesses. (only years later did folks come out and tell their story to investigators). As always, it's left to the reader to decide where they stand on it.

And the records show that a Mogul balloon was launched June 5 then recovered 25 miiles east of Roswell. At least that's what retired Lt. Col. Wayne Madson said on Larry King Live. He also said the records showed no launch on June 4, because of bad weather.

I for myself believe Major Jesse Marcel. His higher ups later came on camera and said that is was a coverup at least.

Major Jesse Marcel said 'outer space.'

Colonel William H. Blanchard verified the existence of alien bodies to his close friends but not on camera.

So do you want to watch the 22 hours of footage detailing the 100s of witness testimony and knowledge of activity or do you want to believe in aliens? I don't believe in aliens because the high ranking military personnel involved admit that something of alien origin happened as other witness testimony have said and conclusive abduction evidence vs. sightings of mass UFOs events that happened in later years, I don't care if the towers on the moon are human, I care that an alien base was placed under Mt. Archuletta 20 miles west of Dulce New Mexico, and if I am wrong there must be an answer for the 4 corners alien strangeness and the Texas link, because it is not crazy but accurate.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Numerous military personnel, including officers up to and including even a General have stated they examined the debris and it was otherworldly. The witnesses are consistent in describing the general properties of the debris. The affidavits are easy to find online.

This type of testimony is one of the main reasons I agree with Gazrok that something extraordinary DID happen at Roswell.

I have seen it put out that Marcel is just a liar and that puts the whole case in doubt. Well some of Marcels claims have been confirmed by other witnesses. Here is part of the "death bed" sealed affidavit of Walter Haut, who was the public information officer at Roswell Army Air Field. Haut was the officer who actually put the Saucer story out over the wire.

(8) On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel; CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt; Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer; Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx. 75 miles NW of Roswell. A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town. Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris.

(9) One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished.

(10) At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters. I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.

(11) By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world. Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home and "hide out."

(12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.

(13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.

SOURCE: www.roswellproof.com...

As can be seen, we have more than just Marcel's word about the unusual nature of the debris. The object allegedly recovered from North of town (which the saucer story may have been a cover for the discovery of) does not sound like a plane and the bodies sound nothing like six foot tall crash test dummies or chimps.

Gazrok has written some good threads on this.
The Case for Roswell - Consolidated

A51Watcher has done a great thread which also helps put the case in context.
The Day Before Roswell

I am not prepared to publish all I have on ATS as that would mean I cannot claim exclusive rights to the material in negotiations with publishers. However, see also US attempts to shoot down flying disks

Originally posted by Pimander
I have seen it put out that Marcel is just a liar and that puts the whole case in doubt. Well some of Marcels claims have been confirmed by other witnesses.

They tried to discredit Marcel and other Roswell witnesses as well, and yes, Marcel Sr. was ordered to pose with the "destroyed" Rawin Target material in the photo against his will. And Roswell Crash photographer James Bond Johnson was ordered to publish the photos of Marcel Sr. posing with the "destroyed" Rawin Target material in such a hurry!

After I hurriedly developed my photos of the "crashed wreckage" on the evening of July 8th, 1947, at the Fort Worth Star-Telegram and turned the wet prints -- there was such an urgency to rush the photos into print that there was no time to dry the prints!!!

Yeah, the Shadow Government was in such a hurry to cover up the UFO crash...