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What Really Happened in Roswell 1947?

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posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by greyer
I for myself believe Major Jesse Marcel. His higher ups later came on camera and said that is was a coverup at least.

It's well documented that Marcel was a pathological liar,he was possibly chosen for his part in this because they knew people wouldn't believe him because of this fact.




posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by Imagewerx
It's well documented that Marcel was a pathological liar,he was possibly chosen for his part in this because they knew people wouldn't believe him because of this fact.

Oh no, Marcel is not well documented as liar at all. And no, he is not a liar. Beside, other witnesses corroborate with Marcel's testimony obout the 'exotic' material and the I-Beam with the unusual hieroglyphics. And remember that Ramey finally turned his back on the Shadow Government, and Batelle scientist Elroy John Center confessed to have analyzed the Roswell alien debris, and have been tested
edit on 29-12-2011 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

What Really Happened in Roswell 1947?


That always is the big question, isn't it.

The undisputed FACTS:

1) Something crashed near Roswell and was recovered by the military.

2) The debris was flown to top foreign technology bases in both Ft. Worth and to Wright Field (now Wright Patterson AFB).

3) The US Army issued a press release that went out via paper and radio that they had recovered a flying disc.

4) The US Government has already been caught trying to cover it up, by having different official stories, and even citing Project High Dive as an explanation for the reports of bodies, even though this project wasn't until five years AFTER the Roswell event.

So, what was it? Other than an alien craft, other explanations:

1) A MOGUL balloon. The problem: these balloon trains used off the shelf parts...nothing that would even be remotely thought of as otherworldly material as described by witnesses. In addition, the device wasn't classified, only the purpose. If MOGUL, the debris wouldn't have been flown to foreign tech bases for identification. Also, the timeline only fits if you accept Mac Brazel's timeline after being detained by the military, vs. his earlier statements.

2) Some other, foreign tech. The problem: If so, it wouldn't have remained classified for over half a century. It would have been released to put the rumors to rest ages ago, complete with pics of the now obsolete device.

3) Something we made. The problem: If so, why send it to our foreign tech guys? Wouldn't the creators quickly simply take possession of it? Also, same as above, eventually, it would be obsolete, so why not declassified and then released to silence the rumors?

The testimony:

Numerous military personnel, including officers up to and including even a General have stated they examined the debris and it was otherworldly. The witnesses are consistent in describing the general properties of the debris. The affidavits are easy to find online.

Conclusion:

Since it wasn't something made by a foreign power, or us, it stands to reason the origin is not of this Earth. Whatever it was, it was of enough importance to study quickly, shield it from the public, and threaten and intimidate witnesses. (only years later did folks come out and tell their story to investigators). As always, it's left to the reader to decide where they stand on it.



Nice summary Gazrok!

I think the evidence overwhelmingly points to something extraterrestrial. Look at all the declassification of the U2, A-12,& SR-71 programs. What type of programs would be more important than top secret advanced aircraft that overflew our mortal enemy the Soviet Union. Black Projects like these could have instigated WWIII.

The only other possible explanation that I will entertain (but only for a nanosecond) is that we were testing some type of rocket or missile of Nazi origin. We know about Operation Paperclip. We know the extent the U.S. government went to keep the identities of Nazi scientists concealed so we could benefit from their technology. Perhaps the government at the time was so embarrassed that we were employing former Nazi's to advance our own technology and programs and feared what the American public would think at the time. But it doesn't explain the sighting of bodies. Unless there is an explanation that we are not aware of. The Nazi's used Jewish prisoners in their experiments without hesitation. Maybe the U.S. government allowed them to conduct human experimentation in their endeavors in the U.S. Again, the government would not want the American public to know anything about that. I believe they would go to great lengths to conceal this fact.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by Imagewerx

Originally posted by greyer
I for myself believe Major Jesse Marcel. His higher ups later came on camera and said that is was a coverup at least.

It's well documented that Marcel was a pathological liar,he was possibly chosen for his part in this because they knew people wouldn't believe him because of this fact.


Sorry but the abductions are more believable to me than Roswell. I can't believe the world would turn their back to innocent people who have truly woken up with strange evidence of strange events that happened through the night, or even in the early years people who see strange things and have strange experiences. Even if it is ghosts or something unknown please don't turn your back on helpless innocent loving people. I know the world would of done that, they don't care about anybody. Some do, please realize what they went through, and some have realized what that exactly is, so they have themselves changed. What is exotic about this life is that you have everything, you have all forms of life, not a thing seems to be not here, so why would I ponder about so many stars in the universe when there is everything here, thats' far to much to conceive when you have everything. In a person's mind alone you have everything, and across each person everything is different. My focus is to find the magic within and here, not mental but real life. I have knowledge of things that I am sure others don't, I know that aliens were here.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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Here is a link to a pretty good ATS thread on Roswell by lost_shaman.

link



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by Anunaki10
 


When the USAF released their final report to President Clinton calling it "Case Closed," that was a bold statement when I think about it...pretty defiant move by the military to the Commander in Chief.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


i have no link but i do remember hearing that an
group of researches came a cross a second crash site



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by maryhinge
reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


i have no link but i do remember hearing that an
group of researches came a cross a second crash site


There was suppossedly another crash site approximately 40 miles of Roswell. In the book, "Witness to Roswell," Col. Blanchard ordered Haut to release that press statement claiming RAAF found a flying disc to draw attention away from that second site.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by greyer

Originally posted by Imagewerx

Originally posted by greyer
I for myself believe Major Jesse Marcel. His higher ups later came on camera and said that is was a coverup at least.

It's well documented that Marcel was a pathological liar,he was possibly chosen for his part in this because they knew people wouldn't believe him because of this fact.


Sorry but the abductions are more believable to me than Roswell. I can't believe the world would turn their back to innocent people who have truly woken up with strange evidence of strange events that happened through the night, or even in the early years people who see strange things and have strange experiences. Even if it is ghosts or something unknown please don't turn your back on helpless innocent loving people. I know the world would of done that, they don't care about anybody. Some do, please realize what they went through, and some have realized what that exactly is, so they have themselves changed. What is exotic about this life is that you have everything, you have all forms of life, not a thing seems to be not here, so why would I ponder about so many stars in the universe when there is everything here, thats' far to much to conceive when you have everything. In a person's mind alone you have everything, and across each person everything is different. My focus is to find the magic within and here, not mental but real life. I have knowledge of things that I am sure others don't, I know that aliens were here.


I haven't really looked too deep into alien abductions. There is a lot of information on abductions. I have reviewed the Hill abduction case, but only briefly. I think the problem with abductions is that they are mostly subjective. To my limited knowledge about abductions, and please correct me if I'm mistaken, but there is limited objective and quantifiable evidence of abductions. There is lots of subjective testimony but less objective evidence. I believe this is what limited the movement of The Disclosure Project. TDP had a great amount of fantastic testimony but it never went any further. In regards to the Hill abduction case, the inclusion of the Zeta Reticuli star system might be the best objective evidence in the case. Some abductees have had unexplained "implants" discovered and removed from them. That's pretty good evidence.

In regards to Roswell, there is a significant amount of evidence pointing, at the very least, to a conspiracy to conceal the truth of what happened in 1947. This much cannot be argued.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Anunaki10

Originally posted by Imagewerx
It's well documented that Marcel was a pathological liar,he was possibly chosen for his part in this because they knew people wouldn't believe him because of this fact.

Oh no, Marcel is not well documented as liar at all. And no, he is not a liar. Beside, other witnesses corroborate with Marcel's testimony obout the 'exotic' material and the I-Beam with the unusual hieroglyphics. And remember that Ramey finally turned his back on the Shadow Government, and Batelle scientist Elroy John Center confessed to have analyzed the Roswell alien debris, and have been tested
edit on 29-12-2011 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)

I didn't quote specifics about Marcel,but this says otherwise......
www.roswellfiles.com...

I only read that on the interwebs,so because I wasn't there it's the only point of reference I have at the moment.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Imagewerx
I didn't quote specifics about Marcel,but this says otherwise......
www.roswellfiles.com...

I only read that on the interwebs,so because I wasn't there it's the only point of reference I have at the moment.

You didn't quote specifics about Marcel that's right. But Marcel is still not well documented as a liar. From your provided link:


Claim:
"General Ramey allowed some members of the press in to take a picture of the stuff. They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris. The press was allowed to photograph this, but were not allowed far enough into the room to touch it. The stuff in that photo was pieces of the actual stuff we found. It was not a staged photo. Later, they cleared out our wreckage and substituted some of their own. They they allowed more photos. Those photos were taken while the actual wreckage was already on its way to Wright Field. I was not in these. I believe these were taken with the general and one of his aids."

Reality:
The photo of Jesse Marcel is taken with a radar target and all the photos show the same debris!

This is likely the way the Shadow Government wants it to look like, it's their job to discredit witnesses. Question is did Marcel Sr. really said >>The stuff in that photo was pieces of the actual stuff we found



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
I think the evidence overwhelmingly points to something extraterrestrial. Look at all the declassification of the U2, A-12,& SR-71 programs. What type of programs would be more important than top secret advanced aircraft that overflew our mortal enemy the Soviet Union.

Yeah, they definitely covered up the true case of the UFO crashes with fictitious weather balloon and test dummy explanation, and they even also tried to cover up the true nature of the U-2 program



This photo was taken at the NASA Flight Research Center at Edwards Air Force Base, California on 6 May 1960 as part of an elaborate effort by the CIA to cover-up the true nature of the U-2 spy plane program. On 1 May 1960 CIA pilot Francis Gary Powers was shot down over the Soviet Union during a spy flight. Cooperating with the CIA, NASA issued a press release with a cover story about a U-2 conducting weather research that may have strayed off course after the pilot "reported difficulties with his oxygen equipment." This photo shows a U-2 that was quickly painted in NASA markings, with a fictitious NASA serial number, and put on display for the news media at the Edwards NASA facility.


In reality, up to that time no U-2 was ever used by NASA. Unfortunately, Powers was captured by the Soviet Union and espionage equipment was recovered from the wreckage. Soviet Premier Nikita Khruschev exposed the cover-up and made much propaganda use of the American deception.
edit on 29-12-2011 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by Anunaki10
 


Absolutely! The U.S. Government has mastered the art of espionage. Listening to the stories of the Roadrunners (former Area 51 employees), reinforces what lengths they went to conceal black projects like the U2 and Black Bird.

Hell, utilizing the "U" in "U2" was a brilliant deception, implying "Utility" as opposed to "R" for reconnaissance, or "O" for observation.
edit on 29-12-2011 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by Imagewerx
I didn't quote specifics about Marcel,but this says otherwise......
www.roswellfiles.com...

I only read that on the interwebs,so because I wasn't there it's the only point of reference I have at the moment.

Do you work for the military or something?

For the picture that has been built up about Roswell, nowhere does the word of Marcel does not need to be taken on its own. Where Marcel's testimony is significant, there is independent confirmation from other witnesses anyway.

What we do know is that the military have lied about Roswell consistently. We have at least 4 explanations for what happened so far - none of which stand up to scrutiny. There has been and still appears to be a embarrassing attempt at a cover up of something or a very strange psy-op that gestated for decades. Why should we take the word of the military regarding Marcel's integrity. General Ramey rather than Marcel appears to have been the one who was lying to me.

If Marcel was considered a pathological liar, is it really that likely that he would have been assigned to Roswell Army Air Field as an intelligence officer at the air base where the worlds only nuclear bomber squadron were based? We are talking one of the most sensitive military bases on Earth. Clearly, Marcel was considered to be a trustworthy and competent individual by his superiors and fellow officers.

 


Something that has not had much of a mention in this thread in terms of an explanation for Roswell, other than the ones mentioned by Gazrok, is that it may have been a sick experiment that went badly wrong. Perhaps something to do with Batelle? It doesn't bear thinking about what that might have been.

Against the sick experiment theory is that the otherworldly nature of the wreckage would remain unexplained. That leaves the ET/time travellers/inter-dimensional (aliens basically) as favourite still.
edit on 29/12/11 by Pimander because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
Absolutely! The U.S. Government has mastered the art of espionage. Listening to the stories of the Roadrunners (former Area 51 employees), reinforces what lengths they went to conceal black projects like the U2 and Black Bird.

Some officials of the US Government certainly may have listened to the Roadrunner stories, so they had to spend taxpayers money on espionage! That's one of the reasons why we have this economic crisis situation!
And some were convinced that certain U.S. intelligence agencies had been infiltrated by Soviet spies from KGB and informers, and the UFO wreckage was so sensitive that no one could be trusted to deal with it!
The U.S. Secret Shadow Government feared that the secret files, including secret files on UFO could get in the hands of the KGB agents. They even had to destroy the tools used for SR-71 immediately, just after they built the last SR-71 Blackbird, so KGB couldn't get their hands on these special tools. Well, it was not unusual there was the fear against the Communism, even Walt Disney was involved in the fear against Communism, and Walt Disney accused his own employees for being Communist sympathizers just because his employees demanded their wages to be increased.
Stalin's vision was to make the whole world to be one communist state, there were communist parties and KGB spies all over the United States.
And In 1987, eight MiG-31s locked on to an SR-71 in a successful intercept (no shots were fired but the 'Foxhound' flight locked on). Rumour has it that the 1989 retirement was due to its intercept!

edit on 29-12-2011 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Anunaki10

Originally posted by Cosmic911
Absolutely! The U.S. Government has mastered the art of espionage. Listening to the stories of the Roadrunners (former Area 51 employees), reinforces what lengths they went to conceal black projects like the U2 and Black Bird.

Some officials of the US Government certainly may have listened to the Roadrunner stories, so they had to spend taxpayers money on espionage! That's one of the reasons why we have this economic crisis situation!
And some were convinced that certain U.S. intelligence agencies had been infiltrated by Soviet spies from KGB and informers, and the UFO wreckage was so sensitive that no one could be trusted to deal with it!
The U.S. Secret Shadow Government feared that the secret files, including secret files on UFO could get in the hands of the KGB agents. They even had to destroy the tools used for SR-71 immediately, just after they built the last SR-71 Blackbird, so KGB couldn't get their hands on these special tools. Well, it was not unusual there was the fear against the Communism, even Walt Disney was involved in the fear against Communism, and Walt Disney accused his own employees for being Communist sympathizers just because his employees demanded their wages to be increased.
Stalin's vision was to make the whole world to be one communist state, there were communist parties and KGB spies all over the United States.
And In 1987, eight MiG-31s locked on to an SR-71 in a successful intercept (no shots were fired but the 'Foxhound' flight locked on). Rumour has it that the 1989 retirement was due to its intercept!

edit on 29-12-2011 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)


That is very interesting about the SR-71 tools! I knew the engineers had to create the tools to make the Black Bird but I didn't know about the destruction. That is so historically interesting!! It's interesting how we had to import all that titanium from Russia; how ironic, huh? lol.

In regards to those MiG-31's, even though they had a positive "lock" on the Black Bird, were their missiles fast enough to catch it?!

Great discussion!! Cold War history is fascinating!



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by Pimander
 


"If Marcel was considered a pathological liar, is it really that likely that he would have been assigned to Roswell Army Air Field as an intelligence officer at the air base where the worlds only nuclear bomber squadron were based? We are talking one of the most sensitive military bases on Earth. Clearly, Marcel was considered to be a trustworthy and competent individual by his superiors and fellow officers."

I think you're right about this. RAAF was the only nuclear bomber squadron in the world, additionally the whole state of New Mexico had been tasked with top secret R&D, including Los Alamos and rocket R&D at White Sands. It's doubtful if anyone working for the government or military in New Mexico had not been through a thorough background investigation.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by Pimander
 


"If Marcel was considered a pathological liar, is it really that likely that he would have been assigned to Roswell Army Air Field as an intelligence officer at the air base where the worlds only nuclear bomber squadron were based? We are talking one of the most sensitive military bases on Earth. Clearly, Marcel was considered to be a trustworthy and competent individual by his superiors and fellow officers."

I think you're right about this. RAAF was the only nuclear bomber squadron in the world, additionally the whole state of New Mexico had been tasked with top secret R&D, including Los Alamos and rocket R&D at White Sands. It's doubtful if anyone working for the government or military in New Mexico had not been through a thorough background investigation.


Marcel was further promoted after Roswell and was later transferred to DC and worked in the Pentagon.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 09:10 PM
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Besides considering how he got to be the Intelligence officer for the only Atomic Bomb Wing in the world at the time, you also might want to consider why he was given several promotions and excellent evaluations -after- Roswell by his same Commanders.

link - MAJOR JESSE MARCEL'S POSTWAR SERVICE EVALUATIONS

These snide internet attacks on his reputation somehow forget (and ask you to do the same) that his report is backed up by many, many people.



edit on 29-12-2011 by A51Watcher because: the unusual



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by Illustronic
I would like to pose one serious question, it is pretty well known no intelligent extraterrestrial life exists in our solar system other than here, earth. So apparently an extraterrestrial alien craft would have to come from many light years distant. How confident are you that such a technology that is able to interstellar travel would also crash into a planet. OK let's consider it was just a probe, sent before their technology progressed or from an alien planet millenniums deceased already since they launched a space probe 9 hundred thousand years ago. Also consider we have no verifiable proof of extraterrestrial visitation we can go to a museum and touch/look at.

But how confident would you really be is proposing that an interstellar spacecraft would be so careless as to crash into a planet under advanced extraterrestrial alien life control?

My answer is slim to none.

[snip]
edit on 26-12-2011 by elevatedone because: (no reason given)


That is, unless the craft didn't just *accidentally* crash....


-rrr




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