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Who needs doctrine and dogma? The important thing is to be good person.

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posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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this is what i think...

yes its important being a good person...

let me throw this hypothetical at anyone who wants to take a swing:

you see a homeless person asking for money, you give the person money because its a good thing to do.

now, did you do give the person money because it was a good thing to do, or was it out of love? did you give that person spare change, or did you give him all that you can and more?

being a good person is easy, being like Christ is hard.

when your a good person, and you become diligent in becoming a better a person, i think the bible sets a great guide line. i think its just inevitable that a good person will eventually believe in God out of pure admiration, because you can try as hard as you can to be a good person, but being a good person in the eyes of God is something that takes your entire life.

when you take anything out of context, it can be used for evil, a la satan reciting bible verses to Jesus after His 40 days and night of fasting and radical muslims bombing and killing each other for the sake of Allah.




posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 

They keep pushing the idea of this man at us . . .

I was watching a movie on TV the other night that I thought was pretty good, called Outlander.
Jim Caviezel (formerly Jesus in The Passion) plays a survivor of a crashed space ship who sets up a homing beacon then goes out to see what he could find in the vicinity and ends up in a Viking settlement. He saves the people from a dragon and the rescue ship comes for him, later. His female companion sees this happen from a hiding place and at the end of the movie does a voice-over saying that she kept the secret that the Gods sent him.
The Gods being an important factor in the maintenance of people inhabiting the universe.
They do that because they are very similar to us and are sympathetic towards us and understand the hostile nature of things and they combine to create an alliance between us and them for mutual benefit, though it is a little difficult to figure out what we can do for them.
Jesus in the Gospel of John claimed to be from God. He was not someone who went to visit Heaven and then came back, he came from Heaven and the going back was to Heaven. So how could he and why would he, being a god, become a man other than that he being a god was in a certain way, at least, much like how we are people.
edit on 26-12-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


All sin will be judged with the punishment of eternal torment in hell. Though there will be some suffering higher degrees of torment in hell than others. Hope that helps.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Great stuff... So when are you going to start loving JESUS ???



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by colbe
 

All sin will be judged with the punishment of eternal torment in hell. Though there will be some suffering higher degrees of torment in hell than others. Hope that helps.


Revelation, I disagree but with love,

The above is not true. If when you die, you have no mortal (serious, grave) sins on your soul, you go to Heaven. This is why Confession is so important to the life of your soul! Make a regular from the heart confession of your sins to God. Catholics have to do more, they must
go to Confession. There is reparation to be made for all our sins, people don't realize or reject this Truth. God is perfectly just.

Atoning for our sins, venial and mortal, if not done here during our lifetime,
by our acts of love, our sufferings and prayers, we do over the veil in Purgatory.

Paul speaks of Purgatory. A place of "purgation." The word Purgatory
isn't in Scripture but it is described, like the word Trinity or incarnation.

+ + +

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for "suffer loss" in the Greek is "zemiothesetai." The root word is "zemioo" which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).


www.scripturecatholic.com...



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


I don't see how confessing your sins to another man helps anything... perhaps to relieve your guilt?




posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Akragon,

You receive God's help, His grace in the Sacrament of penance (Confession). The basic meaning of a Sacrament, there are 7 Sacraments. A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.

Grace is God's presence. See the help? The priest stands in the
place of Christ. You are confessing your sins to Christ. I can think
of two reasons Jesus established Confession this way, instead of directly
by prayer to Him. We must confess our serious sins -mortal-, not venial (though you can) in Confession. It helps a person with humility and a person is reassured, their sins are forgiven in hearing the priest's words of absolution. And the priest gives you a penance, usually prayers to say.

You are right about guilt. If everyone believed in Confession as Jesus established it (John 20:23), there would be no need for therapists, psychologists.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 



You receive God's help, His grace in the Sacrament of penance (Confession). The basic meaning of a Sacrament, there are 7 Sacraments. A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.


Use of scripture would be good at this point...


Grace is God's presence.


I disagree...


See the help?


No...



The priest stands in the
place of Christ. You are confessing your sins to Christ.


Do you not say "forgive me father for i have sinned"?

yet..

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.


I can think
of two reasons Jesus established Confession this way, instead of directly
by prayer to Him. We must confess our serious sins -mortal-, not venial (though you can) in Confession. It helps a person with humility and a person is reassured, their sins are forgiven in hearing the priest's words of absolution. And the priest gives you a penance, usually prayers to say


again... scripture helps




posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Great stuff... So when are you going to start loving JESUS ???

When are you going to accept Jesus as king and Lord?



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Great stuff... So when are you going to start loving JESUS ???

When are you going to accept Jesus as king and Lord?


When are you two gonna kiss and make up?


edit on 27-12-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by colbe
 



You receive God's help, His grace in the Sacrament of penance (Confession). The basic meaning of a Sacrament, there are 7 Sacraments. A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.


Use of scripture would be good at this point...


Grace is God's presence.


I disagree...


See the help?


No...



The priest stands in the
place of Christ. You are confessing your sins to Christ.


Do you not say "forgive me father for i have sinned"?

yet..

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.


I can think
of two reasons Jesus established Confession this way, instead of directly
by prayer to Him. We must confess our serious sins -mortal-, not venial (though you can) in Confession. It helps a person with humility and a person is reassured, their sins are forgiven in hearing the priest's words of absolution. And the priest gives you a penance, usually prayers to say


again... scripture helps



I stated the Chapter and number of the verse on Confession but I can post it. Scripture shows the
spiritual power of the priesthood in other verses too. Such a disconnect...

Protestants accepting an Old Covenant priesthood while denying a greater
ministerial priesthood in the New Covenant.

The Apostles were the first priests, Paul too. Why he is so despised.
Some Christians don't like what he professes. Here is the verse on
Confession. You have to "hear" someone's sins first to forgive them, yes?

I appreciate you asking. I hope for your "yes" when the Great Warning
happens.
John 20:23
He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 10:44 PM
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When Jesus said call no man father. He was using hyperbole.

Jesus and the Apostles referred to holy men chosen by God in Scripture as
"Father".



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for "suffer loss" in the Greek is "zemiothesetai." The root word is "zemioo" which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).
the "construction" is: V-FPI-3S, Tense: Future, Voice: Passive, Mood: Indicative, Person: third, Number: Singular.
The same Greek word is found in the Septuagint version of the OT, in Exodus 21:22, having to do with the law regarding a woman being injured or whatever to where she has a miscarriage, and the stipulation that there is no further harm, where the word, harm, is the translation of the Greek word, zemioo. The general theme of the passage has to do with prescribed penalties but the word itself has nothing to do with that.
What it is referring to is what harm was done to the woman in order to determine what the price should be for recompense.
My translation from the Greek version of Proverbs 19:19 comes out as:
ill-minded man much harm if-then perpetrates harm to others and the life his continues.

which is a literal, word-for-word, where you could make it into an English sentence like:
If an evil man lives a long life, then he will inflict much damage on others.

once you take into consideration the specific form of the words used in the text.
So again, it really does not support your supposition.
edit on 27-12-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 



I stated the Chapter and number of the verse on Confession but I can post it. Scripture shows the
spiritual power of the priesthood in other verses too. Such a disconnect...

Protestants accepting an Old Covenant priesthood while denying a greater
ministerial priesthood in the New Covenant.


I read it... i just prefer it when people post the verse instead of making them look for it.


The Apostles were the first priests, Paul too. Why he is so despised


Because he didn't know Jesus, and his writing reflects that...


Some Christians don't like what he professes. Here is the verse on
Confession. You have to "hear" someone's sins first to forgive them, yes?


No... A mans sins are his own... why is it anyone elses business?


I appreciate you asking. I hope for your "yes" when the Great Warning
happens


what great warning?




posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by colbe
When Jesus said call no man father. He was using hyperbole.

Jesus and the Apostles referred to holy men chosen by God in Scripture as
"Father".


Again scripture please...

I don't recall any instance of them calling another man father... biologocal father perhaps...

And isn't hyperbole lying??


edit on 26-12-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


Catholicism teaches that a person must keep the “Seven Sacraments” to obtain Heaven. This of course is a lie of the Devil! You do NOT need to be baptized to go to Heaven! You do NOT need to confess your sins to a priest in order to be forgiven. No priest can forgive anyone’s sins!!! You do NOT need to go to confirmation to be saved, no sir! These are lies of the Devil. Only one person can forgive sins and that's Jesus, no man can forgive sins, no priest can, your Confession is heresy. Catholics use it as a free ticket to go and sin some more, that is not true repentance of someone that is born again in the spirit. And last but not least, each time you pray to Mary you are committing the sin of idolatry, because prayer is a form of worship.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by colbe
John 20:23
He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.


This is not as complicated as it seems. We must all confess our sins to the high priest, Jesus. And yes there is great value in confessing your sins to other believers, because there is great value in prayer. We confess our sins to others not for them to forgive us but because they can pray for us and encourage us.

Also by telling someone that I know and knows me what my sins are they can help me be accountable for those sins. So let us use the example of internet indecency. If I have a problem with this and I tell my friend he may be able to help me stay accountable by asking me how I am doing and offering me encouragement.

Doing this in secret, to a priest behind a door, is really no different than confessing to Jesus my sins and asking forgiveness.

What the Apostles are being told in John 20:23 is in reference to receiving the word of God. If anyone who is filled with the Holy Spirit and walking in the way of Christ as the Apostles were they have a right to expect that someone except the message of salvation. (You need to understand they were also healing the sick, raising the dead and performing other miracles) Since the faith of the Apostles could not be questioned anyone who refused the message was in essence refusing Jesus.

So you see they would be sharing the good news of the message and offering forgiveness to anyone who would receive it. If one does not accept the forgiveness than they were not to be forgiven. For anyone who accepted the message they were to be forgiven.

In my opinion this is the only interpretation that is consistent with the rest of the teaching of Christ. And since I see no one in the church or anywhere, healing the sick, raising the dead, or performing miracles, than it does not appear to me that anyone currently has this authority.

You see if someday the Holy Spirit would provide me the gift of healing and I were to truly heal in full view of everyone and then shared with them the good news of repentance and acceptance of the Holy Spirit, than I too would have that right. Not by anything that I am doing but because God is performing miracles through me which is clear evidence that God is at work in me. So anyone that continued to refuse my message would not be accepting forgiveness so I would not offer it to them, nor would Jesus. Because in reality it would be God they rejected and not me.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by colbe
 


Catholicism teaches that a person must keep the “Seven Sacraments” to obtain Heaven. This of course is a lie of the Devil! You do NOT need to be baptized to go to Heaven! You do NOT need to confess your sins to a priest in order to be forgiven. No priest can forgive anyone’s sins!!! You do NOT need to go to confirmation to be saved, no sir! These are lies of the Devil. Only one person can forgive sins and that's Jesus, no man can forgive sins, no priest can, your Confession is heresy. Catholics use it as a free ticket to go and sin some more, that is not true repentance of someone that is born again in the spirit. And last but not least, each time you pray to Mary you are committing the sin of idolatry, because prayer is a form of worship.


I CAN forgive anyone I want to.

Do not over step your bounds my friend. You can only say what YOU are capable of.

I forgive because all men are my Brothers and I know our struggles.

The father is the Judge.

Before him I advocate for any and all Brothers or Sisters.

Even you.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


I don't believe you can forgive a sin that does not belong to you...

Only God can... but one must forgive himself so God can also forgive...




posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 01:13 AM
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The words in John 20: 23 are, loosed, and, bound.
One way of looking at it is that Jesus as the law giver is conferring onto the Apostles the same authority, to make some laws applicable, and others to drop away as of no further use, which is what you find in the Book of Acts with the Apostolic Council gathered and determining if they have to keep circumcision.



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