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Who needs doctrine and dogma? The important thing is to be good person.

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posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Oh, but they did die within the very same, 1,000 year, day. The Bible supports itself on this, as you well know.




posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Dear jmdewey60,

I can always count on you for setting me straight. WhereIi was trying to go was to call the soul a "divine spirit" to better match the terminology of earlier posters. Do you think the soul comes in at conception, or some other time?

Also, is there some other "divine spirit" that already has a place in theology in addition to the soul?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


I embedded a video on Christian Circular Arguments and Assumptions Debunked, page 1, by this woman on YouTube going by the name, brainouty. There is one video on her channel by her that gives a theory based, by her, on obstetrician's experiences. She says that when a baby is born, the first thing they do is clean out its nostrils, then the baby will exhale. She asks where did that breath come from to blow out before it took its first breath? She says it was a gift of God.
So my answer is, I don't know, but for right now I think her theory is interesting.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Dear jmdewey60,

I can always count on you for setting me straight. WhereIi was trying to go was to call the soul a "divine spirit" to better match the terminology of earlier posters. Do you think the soul comes in at conception, or some other time?

Also, is there some other "divine spirit" that already has a place in theology in addition to the soul?

With respect,
Charles1952


You want to know what the soul is? It's simple, really. Go look in Genesis at the creation of Man/Adam. God made a body and breathed into that body the Breath of Life. Then Adam became a living soul. That means that Adam did not have a soul, but that he was a soul. That means that you are a soul, I am a soul, everyone that breathes is a soul. That means that when you die, and breathe your last, it is not your soul that goes away, but the spirit/breath. In Hebrew and Greek, they are the same words.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by Lazarus Short
 

That's all well and good but, you know, words are not static, so when we are talking "spirit", we mean it in today's common usage, so there is a cross-over between these concepts and words as used in the Bible, and what we mean by them now.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Lazarus Short
 

That's all well and good but, you know, words are not static, so when we are talking "spirit", we mean it in today's common usage, so there is a cross-over between these concepts and words as used in the Bible, and what we mean by them now.


Yes, that is so, but Truth should not be obscured by sloppy language and vague concepts.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by Lazarus Short
 


I know what you are talking about because I was taught the exact same thing and believed it up until probably a couple months ago.
There is not a single place that says, 'Here is the truth about the soul and the spirit and of life and death.'
It is something one could come away with by using logic and come to a reasonable understanding.
You have to consider the source for your argument and you may notice it comes from the Old Testament.
You can also find in the OT, in Ecclesiastes, gems like, 'when you die it is the same as when one of your cattle dies'. Paraphrasing but it has this really pessimistic view of life where all you can hope for in life is to have children and for then to live long enough to have some themselves.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by colbe

Novastrike, thanks for your comment.

Hi, I was talking about God's presence in our soul when I said "God can't be where sin is." And there is no sin
in Heaven. Think of Mary too, she was immaculately conceived, God could not be where sin is, a perfect
example. Why the Father's greeting for Our Lord's mother was "Hail, full of grace."


If Mary was the descendant of Adam, then she had the stain of sin present within her when God "immaculately conceived" with her. This also means Jesus carries the stain of sin also since his mother (Mary), like all of us, has that sinful nature.

So yes, God can be in the presence of sin, literally.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


My view is that what God wants us to know in His Word is scattered, and therefore we must dig and study to find it. In return, Gods says that if we can find Truth in those pages, we are Kings. As Isaiah said, it is precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little. Those who build whole theologies on single verses are bound to fail. In the book I am writing on the Bride of Christ, my concepts span the entire OT and NT, and take in other sources as well - I have now written over thrity pages and just reached Deuteronomy. I've got a long way to go.

edit on 24-12-2011 by Lazarus Short because: lah-de-dah



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 

This also means Jesus carries the stain of sin also since his mother (Mary), like all of us, has that sinful nature.
Or this "stain" is not what we (or some people) think it is.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by Lazarus Short
 

. . . precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little . . .
Isaiah 28 is using that as a way to explain how government works and it is something complex that the rulers and Judges need to be sharp and have their wits about them to keep it straight, it has nothing to do with how to read the Bible to formulate doctrines.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 

May I offer a correction?

If Mary was the descendant of Adam, then she had the stain of sin present within her when God "immaculately conceived" with her. This also means Jesus carries the stain of sin also since his mother (Mary), like all of us, has that sinful nature.

You seem to be confusing the Immaculate Conception with the Virgin Birth. The Immaculate Conception was Mary's birth without that stain your talking about. Jesus' birth was the Virgin Birth.

That might cause you to adjust your position a bit.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Yeah, I've always heard them referred together, my mistake.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by colbe

Novastrike, thanks for your comment.

Hi, I was talking about God's presence in our soul when I said "God can't be where sin is." And there is no sin
in Heaven. Think of Mary too, she was immaculately conceived, God could not be where sin is, a perfect
example. Why the Father's greeting for Our Lord's mother was "Hail, full of grace."


If Mary was the descendant of Adam, then she had the stain of sin present within her when God "immaculately conceived" with her. This also means Jesus carries the stain of sin also since his mother (Mary), like all of us, has that sinful nature.

So yes, God can be in the presence of sin, literally.


Hi,

Mary is the exception. God makes exceptions because He can, really.
Look at Elijah and Enoch. Mary was Immaculately conceived. She
has no sin, no Original Sin like the rest of us because she would carry
God inside her.

God the Father greeted her, read in Luke Chapter 1. His first words
from the messenger, the Archangel Gabriel:

"Hail Full of Grace." Grace is God's presence. Mary is full of God,
she has no sin. Makes sense, God's exception.


blessings and Merry Christmas novastrike,


colbe



posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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'The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?' Jeremiah 17:9



posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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Jesus is not doctrine and dogma. His words were quite simple to understand and follow.

There is no such thing as a good person, would a good person commit murder?

Well all sins are seen equally bad in the eyes of GOD.

So if you Lie or steal you obviously are not a good person.

Everyone sins and needs Jesus as there savior, so there sins can be forgiven by GOD.

We were born into sin, the question is will you die in sin, or will you change?
edit on 25-12-2011 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Jesus is not doctrine and dogma. His words were quite simple to understand and follow.

There is no such thing as a good person, would a good person commit murder?

Well all sins are seen equally bad in the eyes of GOD.

So if you Lie or steal you obviously are not a good person.

Everyone sins and needs Jesus as there savior, so there sins can be forgiven by GOD.

We were born into sin, the question is will you die in sin, or will you change?
edit on 25-12-2011 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


RevelationGeneration, Hi,

All sins are not equal. Scripture says that and logic too. Stealing a piece
of candy is not the same as ruining someone's reputation by gossip, calumny. Another example would be acts of physical violence.

_ _ _

Scriptures contain several references to sins being greater or lesser than other sins. In Genesis 18:20, God says that the sin of Gomorrah is “very grave.” If all sin were the same, this statement would be meaningless. The New Testament also records such an instance:



So Pilate said to him, "You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?" Jesus answered him, "You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin." (John 19:10-11)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 

Jesus is not doctrine and dogma. His words were quite simple to understand and follow.

"doctrine and dogma" can be "quite simple to understand and follow".



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by autowrench
 


Oh, but they did die within the very same, 1,000 year, day. The Bible supports itself on this, as you well know.


That sounds like circular logic, friend. The Bible relates how there were generations born of the line of Adam. So they obviously didn't die on the same day. And who were the people that Cain took a wife from? Who were these "other people?"



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 

Jesus is not doctrine and dogma. His words were quite simple to understand and follow.

"doctrine and dogma" can be "quite simple to understand and follow".


Not only that, but doctrine and dogma are followed, blindly, I might add, by many people in this very forum. They keep pushing the idea of this man at us, but have no evidence of the man, save doctrine and dogma. Medieval society and its official Church Dogma taught of a radical salvation religion. Salvation was solidly grounded in a strict sacramental system, and still is today, and was not at the time considered problematic for conforming participants. This Church had rules too, either conform, or die. Any kind of “religions of the heart,” or the finding of the Divine within one's self was considered heretic, or heresies, even today one can hear these words used on those who think differently from the devout. “Cult” leaders and their followers, who are viewed by critics as alienating new converts, are always in search of new conversations to the "Faith."

When is a religion a cult?
When it brain washes people to join the religion by showing Love, and makes it very difficult to leave because of Fear. A hypnotist by the name of Dick Sutphen has written a text about this. He declares much of Christian evangelism came from the practices in the the 18th century. Specifically religious revivalists used guilt and fear to brain wash people into believing they were sinners in need of repentance. A major theory is that brainwashing can take an ordinary sensible person with rational beliefs and turn that person into a raving fundamentalist with irrational ideas and practices.




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