I Am a Straight, Married Christian Male in Support of Gay Marriage

Originally posted by Xaberz
I just wanted to add about the www.narth.com... link. It says sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations.

So, it is genetic; however, genetic in the sense that it is genetically predisposed rather than genetically predetermined.

"Dr. Collins noted that environment, particularly childhood experiences as well as the role of free will choices affect all of us in profound ways. As researchers discover increasing levels of molecular detail about inherited factors that underlie our personalities, it's critical that such data be used to illuminate, not provide support to idealogues."

nuff said.

Originally posted by anumohi
Homosexuality is an ADULT choice

A lot of the gay people I have known have some distinguishing facial features. however. I'm one of those crazy people that thinks a human can physically change with attitude. I don't know to what degree this is possible.

It's weird that men can say other men are hot but they are not attracted to them. What's the difference? Myself, I'm a bonobo. I'm attracted to everyone.

Also you should read over these excerpts from After The Ball www.article8.org... about how homosexuals plan on infiltrating the culture. It outlines their homosexual agenda!

If gays want a legal binding union to join and share property and a name, they can form a Corporation, they can legally change their names, they can marry through any willing ordained minister, better to do it in Mexico, at least you'll have a certificate with no scrutiny by the government...ITS JUST THAT SIMPLE...then keep it to your selves and everyone will be happy

Originally posted by fbipeeperjr
I'm 100% against gay marrage. Simply because I'm 100% against governmental involvement in marrage. Why do we need permission from the government?

If a church down the road wants to marry 2 guys or 2 girls, what do I care? If I don't like it, I just don't go to that church. But what if the government desides to make marrage between a man and woman illegal?

Gays are not looking for "freedom" to marry, they are looking for government permission. That's retarded. If we had freedom to marry we wouldn't need a "license"

I'm not sure why we need permission from the government. I'd assume though it's the same reason we need a piece of paper that says we own a house, or a piece of paper that says we graduated from a school. It's a piece of paper that says you are married.

I severely doubt the government would make it illegal for a man and a woman be able to marry; however, if that were to happen. People would protest and march until it was legal again. Just like when Proposition 8 made it illegal for same-sex marriage, people protested and marched to have that taken out too.

I've heard that argument before that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry because the government shouldn't go about defining people's relationships or telling people they're allowed to do this or that because they have a piece of paper. But the fact of the matter is, marriage isn't disappearing anytime soon. So, in the meantime, why should gay people not be able to share similar rights that straight people have?

Personally, the major right I wish to see gay people to have is for a gay US citizen to be able to marry a gay non-citizen and be able to sponsor them for citizenship. Right now, even with a legal same-sex marriage through a state, the couple can't sponsor the other through marriage as federally it is not accepted. So even if they're married, the US government can deport the husband or wife if their visa expires and they are unable to receive another one. I think that's horrible, especially since my mother was not a US citizen before my father sponsored her.

reply to post by rumor21


No, you know what, I don't think you need to explain anything else, we already realise that you're not quite up to... well anything.

I hope you at least understand what I was saying: your opinion is worth nothing. 0. Absolute # all. The only thing which CAN be valuable is your argument backing up your opinion. You simply posted your emotional response to something without anything else and implied that we should care.


On topic (and a nice segue from the earlier comparison) , interracial relationships were in the past seen as abhorrent and 'wrong' and therefore illegal. Though further back in Ancient Greece homosexual love was seen as the purest and most erudite form of love- so these presumptions of it being 'right' or 'wrong' are of course most likely a cultural/ socially adopted reaction or pretentious righteous indignation rather than the yield of any worthy introspection. Fundamentally, it is not something which will stop therefore making the obvious and most potent question: Is it other people's business?

reply to post by The Old American

I accept what you say about the law of contracts and the rights of people to contract a relationship. But, why try to pick a fight with folk who simply would wish to retain a time honoured status quo? To many, marriage is a traditional religious rite to which they are morally convinced and were brought up to believe is what is right and natural.

My statement is not meant with malice afore-thought. The status quo is what helps to hold community together. When the social mores of a community become radicalized to the extent that a group feels disenfranchised and uncomfortable, what happens? They go off somewhere and start something that may well end up completely beyond the pale.

What I believe is that if you want 'racial harmony' on this, still highly contentious issue, then each side should give some leeway. Marriage stays for heterosexual couples, particularly in the religious context. Gay folk should, without censure, be permitted to attain similar rights under the law on most other aspects of their relationship.

It is when you push people into a corner from their comfort zone in the centre, that they more than likely move sharply left or right of that divide. My dear brothers and sisters, have you not forgotten your own history? Wars are made out of such issues are they not?

Do you really want to see the law changed to permit gay couples to walk into a church and confronting the pastor/priest and their congregations, insist, (under a changed rule of law), that they should be permitted to marry in that place? If so, you will start a war in which people will go to gaol to defend what 'they' believe is right. Some will be prepared to die to preserve that right. In my own country, Australia, that push is now on. Believe me when I tell you that many of us will not accept it. If necessary, we would take our churches underground as they did in China, Russia and Rumania in recent history.

In this life we can never hope to have it all. Life lived successfully, is a series of compromises. That is of course, if you wish to continue to live communally. Homo Sapiens is not a rational being when he feels threatened. You can expect that even a so-called, highly educated enlightened free thinker, will still be highly irrational if you scratch his sensitivities enough.

If you want a biblical argument then I suggest let it be Christ centred. 'Love your neighbour as yourself!' That doesn't mean let him do as he wants to do on every issue but I believe it does mean, 'as far as possible - be accommodating!' In so far as each side gives some ground in the name of fairness and community.

Unfortunately, there are those among us who would 'have it all'. To quote the lyrics of that Sinatra classic, 'I did it my way!' Some folk want to ride roughshod over all. Methinks I even remember the Germans of World War I going to war with a belt buckle bearing the words, Deutchland Uber Alles, (doesn't that translate to mean Fatherland Over All?

Personally I am wary, (and learned over the years), to be a tad keerful about those who loudly shout, EQUALITY. In my experience, that often turns out to be a starting position only. Inherent in our genetic code I am sure, is a crazy piece of code that says, "F.......You Pal....What I really want is to be top dog in the feeding order!"

71 years have taught me that you cannot really have it all. What's more, you have to ask the question, "Is it right to ask for more than you are reasonably entitled to? Are we not a society of highly sensitive mammals that are known territorials and prepared to battle to the death at the drop of a hat?"

Take a look at history if you are attempting to look for a rational society. I don't think the beast every existed? If so not for long. Someone looking enviously across a border soon put paid to those notions. In conclusion of this long-winded dissertation, "Don't ask for what you wish for - You may get more than you bargained for!"

PS:
And as for Utopia in the enlightened 'New World', please pardon my mirth.

BigDenzil

I'm G.L.A.D. you're being honest.

Now then, turn to your left and say hi to Tom Cruise, then turn to your right and say hi to John Travolta.

Cause now you're all trapped in the closet, and I'm just typing here.

reply to post by The Old American




Well TOA, I haven't read your post yet, (I'm kind of gay threaded out at the moment) but i will. It looks interesting
Hope they aren't beaten ya up too bad

Marriage is a religious ceremony between a man and a woman who are relgious and who wish to put their relationship in the hands of god........there is no such thing as gay marriage......or even non religious marriage.

Originally posted by discharged77

Originally posted by spw184

Angry gay, mad that the world does not agree with you. Why cant you except the fact that not everyone is going to agree with your behavior.? I am Russian Orthodox and i am so glad we do not except this kind of crazy nonsense. America is racing to the finish with this type of BS, its turning into a society where anything goes just like ancient Rome.

Good point. I guess people just don't see the push for the US of A to become the modern Soddom and Gemorrah, or the modern Wicked City Babylon.

The entire "Gay Marriage" issue is political theatrics. The solution is self apparent, allow gays to "marry" just give the contract a different name to appease the religious and old-fashioned.

I trip on how people do not see the social engineering going on, how TPTB have been programming us via the airwaves, cable stations magazines and movies, to accept or even glorify what has been traditionally abbhorent behavior. Why would they do this, some of you may ask, to morally degrade society of course.
We used to have family units, sometimes LARGE family units, and even larger extended family units, all living together on farms and other large tracts of land. Towns and cities sprang up that way. Then when the government became corporatized, LITERALLY, TPTB at the time began the destruction of the family unit, and push for the "individualism" someone mentioned.

The individualism is not real, it is programming, it is part of the divide and conquer strategy they have going. The array of "gay" issues in the media are seriously misrepresented, and they do everything they can to increase the controversy over these issues such as DADT and gay marriage, including straight out lying about them. Keep the herds and flocks distracted and entertained, while TPTB write more oppressive laws, then set up more false flag events, to get the laws passed...

reply to post by BigDenzil


I like the way you talk, but i just don't understand. You said:

I accept what you say about the law of contracts and the rights of people to contract a relationship. But, why try to pick a fight with folk who simply would wish to retain a time honoured status quo? To many, marriage is a traditional religious rite to which they are morally convinced and were brought up to believe is what is right and natural.

Even though gay couples have gotten married already, to you…in your heart, do you not still believe that marriage is a traditional religious rite to which you are morally convinced and were brought up to believe is what is right and natural?
How does that change?

Do you think if tomorrow THEY DECIDED all gay people have the right to get married, you’d have a bunch of gay dudes getting married in your church?

Aren’t there enough diverse churches out there to support gay couples?

Originally posted by Viking9019
Marriage is a religious ceremony between a man and a woman who are relgious and who wish to put their relationship in the hands of god........there is no such thing as gay marriage......or even non religious marriage.

So, why do atheists marry, then?

There is religious marriage and then there is legal marriage, which is not religious in any way.

reply to post by The Old American


I am glad you have changed your mind through your experiance in life, i am a lesbian mother raising a normal child, my partner is my equal inside and out and she is the air on my lungs and the blood in my vaines, she is whhy i live another day rather then killing my self, i want to have a dream wedding with her, im sick of the Australian government putting it off when it comes to same sex marriage, there are even religions who support it, 70% of australians support it but the polliticians dont, well, most of them, mostly people need to realise Love is love, people are people, and we all deserve a ;life without descrimination, i cant stand not being able to make my partners dreams come true by marrying her, we are as commited as allot of 80 yr old married couples and also im sick of people like this anti gay and lesbian american lady rebecca something saying BS like gay marriage will lead to mariage between pedophiles and kids, thats a totally seperate thing, and its a factless insult and also defermation,its really hurtful people make acusation like this, and i hate the fact we have to be treated like second class citizens.

reply to post by The Old American


Good for you! The Gay Marriage topic is something that will always have a heated debate behind it.

I'm Christian, I read my Bible, and pray nightly, and I support gay marriage.

The thing that gets me is, if 2 men or 2 women want to get married, why should we get upset about it? It in no way, shape, or form effects us, so why all the hate? For the religious, we're told not to judge others and turn the other cheek. If God is against gay marriage, then let him take care of it on their Judgment Day. Also thinking about it even further, we've much more pressing issues to worry about, yet we exhaust our efforts on trivial things. Good job, America...Good job, you've got your prioritize set!

reply to post by ModernAcademia



Remember back in the day all the flack a child in a single parent family would get purely for only having a single parent?

This is praticaly non-existant today, save it being used by a bully that cant think up any other insults.


Gay couples get put thru even more scrutiny, discrimination and hard-arse scoring when they go to try to adopt. This is becuase alot of the population is still against the idea of people being gay and the thought of something they dont like having the same rights/rules as themselves seems to offend them.


Even with mother nature, its common for animals to pair up in same-sex couples, even raise the young thats completely and utterly non-biologicaly related to them. And they do it just as well as a hetrosexual animal couple.


I think, if two men, or women, want to go get married, let them.

If two men, or women, whom are married, want to adopt, let them.


Currently, because of all the hoops and juggling acts they must perform to get to the point where the adoption agency will say yes - we'll allow you to adopt a child - the child, if old enough to be aware of the world and speak - can simply say - no i dont want two dads/moms and zing - instantly off the list of children that they can adopt from.


Being gay, right now is like being a black person in america during the period shortly after they abolished slavery.

So much hate, so much unfairness, so much crap, all over a stupid grudge/personal dislike. One, which over time (as ive seen myself from growing up - and im only 25) is becoming more and more accepted/tolerated. In another 20 years we will look back on things like this and think wow - how primitive of us.

While at the exact same time, we will be displaying this same hatred, intolerance, and cruelty to something completely different - the new flavor of the month, so to speak.



And no, i'm not gay, before someone wants to throw in that accusation and call me names. kthx

Im a straight male and Im for gay marriage because I dont care what people do in their own bedroom. Marriage shouldnt even be mandated by the state it is a religous issue. Seperation of church and state much? I dont need government to tell me I can get married and neither should gay people.

Freedom. Even if you dont agree with it.

Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by The Old American

 

Prove it or move along. Gay activist's and their leftist supporters have a long track record of engaging in outright lies, distortions and ignorance of the truth.

If gay's are such great parents why does the PC universities steer far studying them? Or why is the fact that lesbian relationships have the most DV in them out of any other type of relationship?

Or how about gay's homosexual agenda to insert homosexuality into every media outlet as a form of mass desensitization campaign.

And frankly your long winded original topic material reeks of an over zealous, lieing activist.

Pics or it didn't happen, huh? Well, my friend, that would require me breaking my anonymity for you, and you aren't worth breathing my oxygen, much less putting my family at risk of exposure to intolerant, hate-filled extremists.

I have no agenda here. I posted my thoughts on the subject to let people know that their are actually rational people in the world. Nobody has to accept homosexuality in and of itself to accept that it exists, is natural, and isn't ever going away. And as a Libertarian, and a thinking human being, my belief is such that everyone should have a truly equal chance at opportunities afforded other people in the same situation.

/TOA

Originally posted by BigDenzil
reply to post by The Old American

 

I accept what you say about the law of contracts and the rights of people to contract a relationship. But, why try to pick a fight with folk who simply would wish to retain a time honoured status quo? To many, marriage is a traditional religious rite to which they are morally convinced and were brought up to believe is what is right and natural.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. Unless showing support for an underdog is picking a fight. Then I guess I am guilty as charged.

Do you really want to see the law changed to permit gay couples to walk into a church and confronting the pastor/priest and their congregations, insist, (under a changed rule of law), that they should be permitted to marry in that place?

I'd like to see the law changed to allow the liberty of contract extended to two people that want the same benefits as traditionally married couples.

Personally I am wary, (and learned over the years), to be a tad keerful about those who loudly shout, EQUALITY. In my experience, that often turns out to be a starting position only. Inherent in our genetic code I am sure, is a crazy piece of code that says, "F.......You Pal....What I really want is to be top dog in the feeding order!"

I am just as wary. I don't even believe we are all equal. But equal opportunity should be allowed for all. But on terms that one should be able to make it on their own without government, religious, intervention. Right now gays do not have that opportunity because our fine, upstanding government says it's illegal. And that's mainly because they've been pressured by intolerant Neanderthals who can't see past their own self-loathing and guilt to see that people of all walks of life can actually hold a deep, abiding love for each other.

I'm not some Progressive Democrat here, FYI. I am a right-of-center Libertarian. Some people on this very thread that know my post history probably spit out their drink when they read my view on this. On some things I'm a right-of-right Libertarian! But there are subjects in which my leftist, tree-hugging, Spotted Owl loving side comes out.

Gay marriage, or civil unions, whatever you want to call it, should allowed through the liberty of contract. My stance is that simple.

/TOA

Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by The Old American

 

Prove it or move along. Gay activist's and their leftist supporters have a long track record of engaging in outright lies, distortions and ignorance of the truth.

If gay's are such great parents why does the PC universities steer far studying them? Or why is the fact that lesbian relationships have the most DV in them out of any other type of relationship?

Or how about gay's homosexual agenda to insert homosexuality into every media outlet as a form of mass desensitization campaign.

And frankly your long winded original topic material reeks of an over zealous, lieing activist.

Well did you know that Right wing and antigay activists have a long track record of engaging in outright lies?
Even michelle bachman's official youtube channel (For her election) said "Gay people molest children - Sick freaks!"

The reason we somtimes lie is because we want equal rights, and im sure if you got down to the bottom of racial disputes with blacks, there was a lot of lying on both sides there too. I think this is caused by homophobia, much as people where scared of blacks.

Watch, in 100 years, sombody is going to have this SAME EXACT arugment, but its going to be about aleins or mutants or somthing

And also, HOW DOES WHAT I DO IN BED HURT YOU AT ALL?

Mmk? mmk.