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I Am a Straight, Married Christian Male in Support of Gay Marriage

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posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by spw184

Well did you know that Right wing and antigay activists have a long track record of engaging in outright lies?
Even michelle bachman's official youtube channel (For her election) said "Gay people molest children - Sick freaks!"

The reason we somtimes lie is because we want equal rights, and im sure if you got down to the bottom of racial disputes with blacks, there was a lot of lying on both sides there too. I think this is caused by homophobia, much as people where scared of blacks.

Watch, in 100 years, sombody is going to have this SAME EXACT arugment, but its going to be about aleins or mutants or somthing


And also, HOW DOES WHAT I DO IN BED HURT YOU AT ALL?

Mmk? mmk.


So because conservatives lie sometimes it's okay for you to do it too? What kind of logic is that?




posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 10:04 AM
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Having read the posts the following questions must be asked:

Is the United States of America a nation of laws, or is it a nation that follows a primary religion?
Most of the postings would indicate, that people are wanting to have religion be a dominate factor in the laws of the US. Yet when confronted with such religious laws, like say Sharia, a set of rules and laws based off of Islam, people bulk at the very notion of such, even going so far as to get very upset.

Yet based off of the posting, that is what those who are against gay marriage are proposing, using religion as a basis to create laws to discriminate against a group who are seeking to be equal in the eyes of the law. Every excuse is used, yet the research is either biased towards a religious point of view or from sources with questionable techniques or even those that have been shown to be false fully and completely as to be fully disregarded when subjected to peer review.

The arguments that many would use against gay marriage, usually revolve around the very same ones that were once used by those who would seek to stop or make illegal interracial marriages, yet today we would condemn those very same statements.

Many would use children, the safety of the children, yet fail to ask the question, what percentage of gay couples want to have children or even deal with raising a child. And even then, there is no hard core studies to suggest or even show what the effects are, as such has really only come around just here recently. Some would say that 2 lesbians would not make fit parents, as they can not play sports or teach a boy about life. Yet it would shock most people to find out that most lesbians, usually are very good at sports, able to do and perform equal to their male counterparts, even exceeding them at all sports, able to compete, and easily beat men.

Many would compare one issue with gay marriage, yet no one has looked to see if the 2 are related or if the secondary non gay marriage issue has ever been discussed. People use the if they allow gay marriage then they would have to allow poly households, yet if the research is done, then it would be seen that very issue, the multiple marriage issue has been through the courts already, discussed, debated and determined that such is not legal in the US, over 200 years ago, when it was first brought up.

And now the next argument is that the state would dictate that churches be forced to perform gay marriages against their faith and belief, and that is also false. The US government can not force a priest or a minister to perform a ceremony that would violate their faith. It is not going to happen, they will leave it up to the individual clergyman to make that decision as to if they are capable of or willing to perform such a ceremony and leave it at that, or allow for such to happen in front of a judge, by an official paid by the local government.

There is no real reason why 2 people of the same sex can not get married, to use religion, would in effect discriminate against a lot more than just gay people, as it could be used to forbid 2 Muslims, or Hindu’s or any other faith from getting married. Today marriage is no longer in the realm of the religious, it is in the hands of the state.

To ask a group of people to act and do like everyone else, without the benefits that everyone enjoys is the very essence of discrimination.

There are only 2 ways to end this debate, either allow for 2 people who are of the same sex to get married or remove all benefits of marriage from the law books, where it is equal to everyone.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Let me let the cat out of the bag to start...I am a Christian. But I share the views of the OP. I think some of the Christians on here may be confused with the concept of "marriage". "Marriage" can clearly be sanctioned by the government and is sanctioned every day by the government, which should certainly allow for 2 gays to be married. But now you are saying "wait wait, homosexuality is a sin, no sir!" Yes, homosexuality is a sin, but this does not mean that gays can't have marriage rights. As Christians, we should have our own "marriage" ceremonies and blessings and not be worried about (from a religious perspective) what the government is sticking its nose in, as long as we retain our religious rights to consummate marriage. It's not like we have to religiously acknowledge these gay marriages. There are way too many dangers of bringing religion into governmental matters.

The Bible is clear that God's institution is separate and apart from the world's institution, separation of church and state if you will. And the reason for this is so God's institution does not become corrupted with political corruption and other sin. I guess my point is religious Christian marriage and governmental marriage can co-exist, but not mingle. Saying the word "marriage" is just a word anyway that has been assigned a random dictionary meaning, it does not represent the spiritual unity of a man and woman, so I really don't care if homosexual couples run around and say they are married, as long as the marriage isn't approved under the name of Christianity.

This is a hot button topic for me because my dad is a pastor in a rural community and has a high school education, and by golly I have heard the phrase "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" come out of his mouth more than one time over the years. I have come to accept that with his upbringing and intellect, he will never understand the idea of separation of church and state in this lifetime, but I have too much respect for him to tell him to his face that his view is wrong. To those Christians who think I am sanctioning sin- I am not. It is clear that we are supposed to hate the sin itself, but we are not mandated to religiously control governmental laws to prevent all forms of sin.

Finally, I know this is slightly off topic, but from a strictly secular perspective why are at least a small minority people in this country in favor of homosexual marriage or civil unions, but extremely opposed to: 1) polygamy 2) child marriage and 3) incest marriage? If two consenting gays should have the right to marry, why shouldn't these other groups?



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by jburg6
 


Being raised Catholic and understanding its values, I've always had a very large respect for people with enormous faith. But I'd like to point out that if you were gay, I don't think you would have the same feelings about how being in a homosexual relationship is a sin. For me, being in a same-sex relationship feels just as normal as a regular one. We cook for each other. We do each other's laundry. We watch TV at night together. We go out to eat every once in awhile. We hug each other and kiss each other goodbye when one of us has to go to work. It doesn't make sense that those things are a sin. The only way I feel like our relationship isn't like a opposite-sex relationship, is I can't walk down the street and hold his hand without feeling uncomfortable because parents' which children give the eye. It's really horrid...People just stare like they're seeing a person with two-heads. It's a shame, but anyway. If you were gay, and in a same-sex relationship and saw how normal it can be, then I think your perspective would be very different.

As for your question about 1) polygamy 2) child marriage and 3) incest marriage? I'm just taking a guess. For the longest time I didn't see anything wrong with polygamy. I thought if three people loved each other very much, they should be able to form a family. But then someone pointed out to me, have you ever seen a healthy polygamous relationship? And then I thought about my one friend who was in one, and then I went, oh that didn't end very healthy. And then I was like, what about the movie Vicky Christina Barcelona, then I was like oh yeah that ended horribly too. So, then I was thinking there might just be something about polygamy that doesn't work. However, if someone can prove that a person can be in a healthy polygamous relationship than sure, why not allow it?

As for child marriage, I think the answer is obvious because when you're a child, you can't make as rational of a decision like marriage. Like my younger brother when he was 8 he said he wanted to marry me. He was 8. I don't think he knew what marriage really entailed. He loves me a lot, and looked up to me as his older brother. And I think he confused that love for he should marry me. But if I were to actually be like, okay let's get married, that would be really irresponsible of me, I would think.

As for Incest marriage, I think the answer is found when a child is made between siblings the baby has a much higher chance of physical/mental problems. As for gay incest marriage, I'm not sure what the issue would be with that. I suppose opposite-sex incest marriage would feel it was unfair that same-sex incest marriage could marry but they couldn't. I suppose the government could require that the opposite-sex incest marriage be forced to have an operation so one or the other couldn't make a baby, but that might have problems, like people who don't want to have the operation get it, just so they could marry, which reminds me of people having sex-changes so that they can marry. There's something odd about it, which I just don't like.
edit on 8-9-2011 by Xaberz because: to answer the question



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by jburg6
 

In answer to your question on why Polygamy, child marriage and incest marriages are not legal, the answer is simple: Those have already been argued, discussed and been through the courts. Polygamy was decided by supreme court cases back in the 1800’s with the rise of the Mormon church. It also would fall into the bigamy laws as well, thus Gay marriage could not be consider similar to that, as the ground for such are not there.

Child Marriages: Those are covered in the age of consent laws through out the US, as they vary in age of the child, but at the same time, there is the fact that in some states a child as young as 16 can enter into the contract of marriage. But most of the time, as it is a contract, children can not legally enter into such. Side note, it seems as though polygamy marriages and child marriages, seem to be happening at the same time in the US, say with the group ran by Warren Jeffs.

Incest marriages: That is a tough one, but lets take a look at that issue. Beyond the scientific evidence that incest is a bad idea, that people with the same genetic heritage and are related, should not marry, as evidence by the royal families of Europe and the rise of Hemophilia, first cousins can marry. In all states, close blood-relatives that fall under the incest statutes include father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, and in some states, first cousins, although Rhode Island allows uncles to marry their nieces if they are part of a community, such as orthodox Jews, for whom such marriages are permitted. Many states also apply incest laws to non-blood relations including stepparents, step-siblings, and in-laws
But this is a separate issue, here again, this has been already debated and discussed, as well as the laws have been passed already. However, if you want more evidence as to why such is a bad idea, apart from World War I, where the leaders of countries that had monarchies, who were all related, then I would refer you to the Doma people: en.wikipedia.org...
And mind you that their condition is due to inbreeding and pretty much incest is the main root cause of their condition.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


It was made in cooperation with the ACLU! It is not slandering, it has entire chapters devoted to homosexuality. It just pointed out a problem through empirical data.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by moonzoo7
 


I don't think you read my post. I have no desire to impose my will over anyone's free will. Homosexuals can go get "married" if they want and unorthodox Churches can perform them. The only point where I have a problem is when others expect me to accept a definition of marriage contrary to the Bible and Orthodoxy, or worse yet: try and force the Church to perform the marriage. I know gay people, I'm friends with gay people; I am not afraid of homosexuals, I just don't condone their lifestyle. The world is what it is, but I don't have to conform to it or run away from it. I also resent that crass description of monastics.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by yes4141
reply to post by rumor21
 


No, you know what, I don't think you need to explain anything else, we already realise that you're not quite up to... well anything.

I hope you at least understand what I was saying: your opinion is worth nothing. 0. Absolute # all. The only thing which CAN be valuable is your argument backing up your opinion. You simply posted your emotional response to something without anything else and implied that we should care.


On topic (and a nice segue from the earlier comparison) , interracial relationships were in the past seen as abhorrent and 'wrong' and therefore illegal. Though further back in Ancient Greece homosexual love was seen as the purest and most erudite form of love- so these presumptions of it being 'right' or 'wrong' are of course most likely a cultural/ socially adopted reaction or pretentious righteous indignation rather than the yield of any worthy introspection. Fundamentally, it is not something which will stop therefore making the obvious and most potent question: Is it other people's business?


I must of hit a nerve with you. I'm not saying not to love your brother , just saying parts don't fit and Im sure in ancient greece it was homosexuals who would say it was pure. You must be homosexual, and i'm sorry my comment upset you but my religious view is it's an abomination and maybe you have issues with it.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by rumor21
 


You know whats an abomination? Your twisted world view. You are no better than Hitler if your willing to base your opinions on fairy tales.
edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by rumor21
 


You know whats an abomination? Your twisted world view. You are no better than Hitler if your willing to base your opinions on fairy tales.
edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)


And here we go with the Hitler/Nazi comparison. It's called Godwin's law en.wikipedia.org... please enjoy the read through.



It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%)." In other words, Godwin put forth the hyperbolic observation that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by rumor21
 


You know whats an abomination? Your twisted world view. You are no better than Hitler if your willing to base your opinions on fairy tales.
edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)


And here we go with the Hitler/Nazi comparison. It's called Godwin's law en.wikipedia.org... please enjoy the read through.



It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%)." In other words, Godwin put forth the hyperbolic observation that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis.


What your point? Hitler is a prominent figure. Also, he is considered a point of contrast. Oh, he hated gays too. So...your point?
edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by kallisti36
 

We should not ask any church to violate its doctrine of faith, as that is not correct nor can it be enforced. To ask a priest or minister of any type to perform a ceremony that would violate such would be a far worse thing than allowing 2 people of the same sex to wed. However, as not all marriages are performed under a religious banner, some are civil weddings, those should be open to all who would desire such, without fan fare or the people getting involved in such.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


Read the article I posted a link to and you will see what the point is.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by rumor21
 


You know whats an abomination? Your twisted world view. You are no better than Hitler if your willing to base your opinions on fairy tales.
edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)



I'm no better than Hitler? Are you kidding me with this i never said i hated gay people, I have gay friends an we have this discussion all the time. I guess i base my twisted world view to the fact that god made men and women. Take it easy gees my friends don't even get this upset.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I am fine with gay marriage
btw, good luck haha

I am not fine with gay couples adopting though
It's not that I have anything against gays it's just that I feel a mother and father are needed
that's just my opinion though

and I think gays in the military is beyond stuipid
not because I think gays shouldn't be soldiers but because i'm anti-war
and gays screaming "Hey let us illegally invade countries and kill civilians too" just sound stupid to me

bad timing
my two cents


THIS^^^^^^^^^^^ I could care less if two gay people want to contract themselves through the state.... Good luck with that. I feel like they should call it something else besides marriage because I think they do this just too piss people off who believe in God.

That said, letting them adopt children is the the single most retarded thing I have ever heard in my life. I could go into all the reasons why but they are painfully obvious to anyone who isn't gay so I won't waste my time. As for the military..... Pffff, go for it
edit on 8-9-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by rumor21

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by rumor21
 


You know whats an abomination? Your twisted world view. You are no better than Hitler if your willing to base your opinions on fairy tales.
edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)



I'm no better than Hitler? Are you kidding me with this i never said i hated gay people, I have gay friends an we have this discussion all the time. I guess i base my twisted world view to the fact that god made men and women. Take it easy gees my friends don't even get this upset.


Bro, all I'm sayin is your avatar colors are purple and hot pink............ Just sayin.........



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Domo1
 



In reality, what we need is a return to 1-income families, and somebody making sure that all those groceries are getting cooked, the laundry is ready, and all that homework is getting done, instead of eating out, using a dry-cleaner, and a tutor. Gay Marriage isn't the problem. Greed and Debt-Slavery are the problems.



soooooo you're saying we have to go back to Leave it to Beaver times or Andy Griffeth times where the /man/ worked and the /woman/ stayed home in the kitchen, doing cooking, laundry and tending the kids?

loooooooool. I miss those days and I was born in 73 so I missed the 30s-50's - but they're days long gone for a reason. I HOPE I don't have to get into Equal Rights and Womens Lib and all that crazy crap. People can't survive on one income. Though I'm a single mom to an almost 17 year old son and we get by on my 17 hours a week min wage job...... shrugs. You do what you can. My kid grew up just fine, straight A student, preapproved into a good college..... Not bad. His father was never really around for him. All is fine.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by rumor21

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by rumor21
 


You know whats an abomination? Your twisted world view. You are no better than Hitler if your willing to base your opinions on fairy tales.
edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)



I'm no better than Hitler? Are you kidding me with this i never said i hated gay people, I have gay friends an we have this discussion all the time. I guess i base my twisted world view to the fact that god made men and women. Take it easy gees my friends don't even get this upset.


Bro, all I'm sayin is your avatar colors are purple and hot pink............ Just sayin.........


That's because I'm a girl and like pink



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by rumor21

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by rumor21

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by rumor21
 


You know whats an abomination? Your twisted world view. You are no better than Hitler if your willing to base your opinions on fairy tales.
edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)



I'm no better than Hitler? Are you kidding me with this i never said i hated gay people, I have gay friends an we have this discussion all the time. I guess i base my twisted world view to the fact that god made men and women. Take it easy gees my friends don't even get this upset.


Bro, all I'm sayin is your avatar colors are purple and hot pink............ Just sayin.........


That's because I'm a girl and like pink


Sorry, still gay.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 




not gay

edit on 8-9-2011 by rumor21 because: (no reason given)



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