I Am a Straight, Married Christian Male in Support of Gay Marriage

Originally posted by TsukiLunar


You must see how this makes no sense. God knew they would be gay, knew that they would engage in gay sex, and then punishes them for doing exactly what he knew they would do?

Here is some articles on a Christian apologist website that discusses God and free will

carm.org...

carm.org...

carm.org...

carm.org...

Hope that clears up the issue if you bother to read through them that is.

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
reply to post by TsukiLunar

 

I don't see apes wearing clothes, using computers, driving cars, building houses, writing books, and having any type of religion or philosophy. We are the higher life form. Animals don't build civilizations, humans do.

Oh, but they do build such things. Many primates make crude shelters. Ants make vast, intricate homes. Beavers build dams.
Apes do not need clothes. They do not need cars(a fairly recent invention, was no one worthy of being human before that? Why mention that?). They do make dolls to play with. Otters do the same. I don't see why you deny that they are similar to us. Are you scared to admit you have more in common with 'mere' animals than you once thought?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by spw184
>

Im gay and i know people who have fully functioning families with two same sex parents.

I'm straight and I know straight couples that are just so happy
until we found out otherwise

You don't know what goes on behind closed doors
I'm not at all suggesting they will do bad things to the child, please don't interpret that

But a baby needs a father figure and a mother figure

You know how many people living in ghettos complain of not having a fatherly role model?
How is a lesbian couple going to teach the kid to play fastball?
How is a lesbian couple going to teach a kid how to shave?

the list goes on and on
How would a father explain girls getting their periods to a little girl? She would feel so uncomfortable

and i'm only scratching the surface here

More like scratching at thin air.

Could you please present me some statistics that support your claims?

Of course not.

Yet I'm sure you wouldn't be against a child belonging to a father who has to work so hard that he is absent from the home; provided he is having sex with a woman regularly, that's A-Okay!

If gay people can't adopt, adoption agencies overflow. As the son of two orphans, I have to say, how DARE YOU micromanage who is allowed to have the support of a family based on what GENDER they are. Children have the right to be supported by a family construct, REGARDLESS of your "views on things". your "think about the children!" argument is so hypocritical I nearly vomited reading your post.

And on your comment about playing fastball and shaving... You obviously haven't met many lesbians.

Sorry if this comes off as "harsh", but children literally kill themselves because they have no families, and you want to deny them families because of shaving and baseball? People like you are the reason that my ATS name is what it is.

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by TsukiLunar


You must see how this makes no sense. God knew they would be gay, knew that they would engage in gay sex, and then punishes them for doing exactly what he knew they would do?

Here is some articles on a Christian apologist website that discusses God and free will

carm.org...

carm.org...

carm.org...

carm.org...

Hope that clears up the issue if you bother to read through them that is.

Heck no i wont read it. I have already read the crude rationalizations that apologist try to come up with. They fail on the basis that they cannot prove a single thing. They twist and twist until their world view seems like nothing more than a pretzel of logical fallacies and outright false hoods.

Not to mention i asked the question to you, not some apologists.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
reply to post by TsukiLunar

 

I don't see apes wearing clothes, using computers, driving cars, building houses, writing books, and having any type of religion or philosophy. We are the higher life form. Animals don't build civilizations, humans do.

Oh, but they do build such things. Many primates make crude shelters. Ants make vast, intricate homes. Beavers build dams.
Apes do not need clothes. They do not need cars(a fairly recent invention, was no one worthy of being human before that? Why mention that?). They do make dolls to play with. Otters do the same. I don't see why you deny that they are similar to us. Are you scared to admit you have more in common with 'mere' animals than you once thought?

edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

Before automobiles we used animals yoked to carts for transportation. Apes don't engineer large buildings. They don't saw down trees nail boards together and put a thatched roof on it. Apes don't don't manufacture anything, they can't build trains and airplanes. They can't invent machines. They have no concept of metallurgy. They can't forge swords or pruning hooks.

Throwing sticks together to create a crude shelter or digging a hole in the ground is a far cry from the engineering feats of mankind. If a squirrel learns how to construct a computer, rocket, and place a satellite in space for squirrel communication I'd be impressed but they can't so your argument is mote.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by TsukiLunar


You must see how this makes no sense. God knew they would be gay, knew that they would engage in gay sex, and then punishes them for doing exactly what he knew they would do?

Here is some articles on a Christian apologist website that discusses God and free will

carm.org...

carm.org...

carm.org...

carm.org...

Hope that clears up the issue if you bother to read through them that is.

Heck no i wont read it. I have already read the crude rationalizations that apologist try to come up with. They fail on the basis that they cannot prove a single thing. They twist and twist until their world view seems like nothing more than a pretzel of logical fallacies and outright false hoods.

Not to mention i asked the question to you, not some apologists.

edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

I pointed you towards the answers you seek. You don't just want to read anything that already goes against your established beliefs.

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
reply to post by TsukiLunar

 

I don't see apes wearing clothes, using computers, driving cars, building houses, writing books, and having any type of religion or philosophy. We are the higher life form. Animals don't build civilizations, humans do.

Oh, but they do build such things. Many primates make crude shelters. Ants make vast, intricate homes. Beavers build dams.
Apes do not need clothes. They do not need cars(a fairly recent invention, was no one worthy of being human before that? Why mention that?). They do make dolls to play with. Otters do the same. I don't see why you deny that they are similar to us. Are you scared to admit you have more in common with 'mere' animals than you once thought?

edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

Before automobiles we used animals yoked to carts for transportation. Apes don't engineer large buildings. They don't saw down trees nail boards together and put a thatched roof on it. Apes don't don't manufacture anything, they can't build trains and airplanes. They can't invent machines. They have no concept of metallurgy. They can't forge swords or pruning hooks.

Throwing sticks together to create a crude shelter or digging a hole in the ground is a far cry from the engineering feats of mankind. If a squirrel learns how to construct a computer, rocket, and place a satellite in space for squirrel communication I'd be impressed but they can't so your argument is mote.

So, we are smarter. How does intelligence make us not animals. More importantly, how does it makes us better? We certainly are a successful species, but so are others.`

You are wasting the only advantage you have over other animals. Think for yourself man.

reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33


Actually you pointed to carm.org

Which is the most biased thing you could've possibly presented.

Whats next, Fox News? Nancy Grace?

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by TsukiLunar


You must see how this makes no sense. God knew they would be gay, knew that they would engage in gay sex, and then punishes them for doing exactly what he knew they would do?

Here is some articles on a Christian apologist website that discusses God and free will

carm.org...

carm.org...

carm.org...

carm.org...

Hope that clears up the issue if you bother to read through them that is.

Heck no i wont read it. I have already read the crude rationalizations that apologist try to come up with. They fail on the basis that they cannot prove a single thing. They twist and twist until their world view seems like nothing more than a pretzel of logical fallacies and outright false hoods.

Not to mention i asked the question to you, not some apologists.

edit on 8-9-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

I pointed you towards the answers you seek. You don't just want to read anything that already goes against your established beliefs.

First off, i am here reading your post. They go against my beliefs. Second, i asked you what you think. Or did you just copy and paste their rationalizations on to yourself? Third, didn't i just say i have already read those rationalizations? Why would i read them again?

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

So, we are smarter. How does intelligence make us not animals. More importantly, how does it makes us better? We certainly are a successful species, but so are others.`

You are wasting the only advantage you have over other animals. Think for yourself man.

You just answered your own question It's because of our intelligence that we aren't animals. We don't just wonder around and act without thinking because we have intellect. Animals don't have the concept of consequences or foresight into actions they do.

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

So, we are smarter. How does intelligence make us not animals. More importantly, how does it makes us better? We certainly are a successful species, but so are others.`

You are wasting the only advantage you have over other animals. Think for yourself man.

You just answered your own question It's because of our intelligence that we aren't animals. We don't just wonder around and act without thinking because we have intellect.

Well duh.

Animals don't have the concept of consequences or foresight into actions they do.

Are you serious? Get a pet.

After that, re-relate this to the topic please, because it makes no sense to me at the moment.

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

So, we are smarter. How does intelligence make us not animals. More importantly, how does it makes us better? We certainly are a successful species, but so are others.`

You are wasting the only advantage you have over other animals. Think for yourself man.

You just answered your own question It's because of our intelligence that we aren't animals. We don't just wonder around and act without thinking because we have intellect. Animals don't have the concept of consequences or foresight into actions they do.

That is simply not true. My cat wont jump off a cliff, it knows it will get hurt. It can also decide whether or not it wants to go outside. So... debunked you are.

Pet's don't have the concept of consequences. Do you think they know they will get in trouble when they chew up your dvd collection? They can be conditioned to know not to do it but they won't know it's 'wrong'

Originally posted by Partisanity

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

So, we are smarter. How does intelligence make us not animals. More importantly, how does it makes us better? We certainly are a successful species, but so are others.`

You are wasting the only advantage you have over other animals. Think for yourself man.

You just answered your own question It's because of our intelligence that we aren't animals. We don't just wonder around and act without thinking because we have intellect.

Well duh.

Animals don't have the concept of consequences or foresight into actions they do.

Are you serious? Get a pet.

After that, re-relate this to the topic please, because it makes no sense to me at the moment.

edit on 8-9-2011 by Partisanity because: (no reason given)

I said pretty much the same thing. I wonder if this guy is just not wanting to acknowledge that we are animals too. Perhaps he is scared of the truth.

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
Pet's don't have the concept of consequences. Do you think they know they will get in trouble when they chew up your dvd collection? They can be conditioned to know not to do it but they won't know it's 'wrong'

Gah, dude that is stupid. Your conditioning statement is true though. They don't know whats wrong until they are taught. Then they know what they are doing is wrong, they do it anyway. Kind of like humans, huh?

reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33


Your kind of a bible thumper and If I may add, not a very good one. Your posts lack basic grammar and structure and your arguments are just ringing through at least to me, as hollow.

I understand you believe in God, as do I, that said, I fail to understand what you are trying to accomplish with your posts, your direction and focus elude me because it seems completely random, as though you just say what pops into your head at the time.

Not berating you but trying to understand where your coming from before I write you off as a religious loon.

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
Pet's don't have the concept of consequences. Do you think they know they will get in trouble when they chew up your dvd collection? They can be conditioned to know not to do it but they won't know it's 'wrong'

Okay.

You've never had a pet.

That or you have serious observational difficulties.

It's apparent.

Of course they know they will get in trouble for chewing my stuff. That's why they do it when I'm not there.

Kind of like humans and drug laws.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


I think he is just adhering to his political subscriptions for the purpose of being a devout sheep.

Nobody is more devout than those who still proclaim their righteousness even when proven wrong.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


Doublepost

Originally posted by Partisanity

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
Pet's don't have the concept of consequences. Do you think they know they will get in trouble when they chew up your dvd collection? They can be conditioned to know not to do it but they won't know it's 'wrong'

Okay.

You've never had a pet.

That or you have serious observational difficulties.

It's apparent.

Of course they know they will get in trouble for chewing my stuff. That's why they do it when I'm not there.

Kind of like humans and drug laws.

edit on 8-9-2011 by Partisanity because: (no reason given)

Actually, he is completely right about this, you are wrong. They know they will be punished which is why they don't do it in your presence but they lack the intelligence to understand that you will still be angry about it when you get home and further more, they won't even know why you are upset.

Animals are alot dumber than you think. At least compared to humans.