Blood On My Shirt - Where Are the Real Men At?

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Firstly, star and flag for not only posting this but also for following your impulse to "be yourself".

I have found that in this kind of rather high density, coarse "reality", conflicting emotions play an active role in decision making ONLY when peripheral issues such as "Should I intervene?" are allowed to contaminate the purity of the impulse itself.

Put another way, it's my stance that "being yourself", being "who you are" is ALWAYS the appropriate route to choose. After the event has unfolded (from your point of view, of course), there will be time to second guess your actions. But always second guess with absolutely no regrets. This is an easy route to choose if you've been "true to yourself" all along.

Only by choosing to be honest with yourself in any given circumstance will you be able to come to grips with the biggest question mark within ANY event you encounter - you.

Of course, there's the old chestnut "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."; and it is here that I offer a single suggestion:

Don't you believe it.

Again, thank you so much for this tale of personal adventure. It was thoroughly enjoyed and quite instructive.

Mindpeace.

"To thine own self be true." Polonius to Laertes in "Hamlet"

and

"Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances." Mohandas Gandhi

Had I saw what you saw.....even though I am 100 lbs and 5'2 I probably would have done the same thing. It would have hurt me so bad to see him using force on women...not sure what I would have done but I can understand WHY you did. You may have saved one of their lives....you just never know.

My best friend and her mother literally fought off my Best friends Husband. It all unfolded one day and was a hell of a day. She is no longer with him...her and her mom did fight back while 4 or 5 men stood around. One was even video taping it. Not even kidding!!!! So....I also understand why you ask where are all the "real" men at.

Back in the day my Grandfather was at a baseball game and a man disrespected his father in law pushed him). He walked into the bathroom following the man and grabbed his pocket knife out of his pocket and stabbed the man in the butt. Walked off....watched the game and everything was cool. Can you believe he got away with that?? It was a different time back then. Men were the "rulers" so to speak but no way would another man get in the middle of a domestic dispute. It was to stay in the family..period. A public domestic dispute is a different thing....I think. When you bring the violence to the street and women are involved I have no idea how a man can watch a woman be abused and not do anything. Your instance and mine is just two. I am sure there are men out there who would have done the same thing you did....just so happens the men in our instances were afraid of what would happen to them, be it jail or beat up.

Growing up I had anger issues. If someone looked at me or said something the wrong way...I went off on their head. As I have gotten older I try my best to "turn the other cheek" and communicate in love no matter the situation. ....but seeing women get beat around would have dropped me to my knees or made me so upset I would have knocked him out with a bottle as well.

Peace and love to you!!!! xoxox

Jenn

Originally posted by Aeons
You know who gives up their seat on the bus? It isn't the preppy boy, and it isn't the guy in the suit. It is the construction worker whose been on his feet all day, or the boy in leather jacket with the mohawk.

Real men are often at home with their wives, not hanging out in a place where they might see this sort of thing happening. When they are, some of them do step in.

My brother stepped in once to stop a guy beating on his girlfirend in front of his apartment, while holding a screw driver. The woman attacked my brother, and the guy stabbed him with the screwdriver. Then my brother was charged for being there. Family friend lawyer got him off by talking to the prosecutor about how stupid charging him was.

I've helped stop a big juice monkey beating on his girlfriend, and she did the same thing. She physically defended her boyfriend because people were pulling him off of punching her. He was easily 240 and over six feet, and clearly on steroids. She was about 5'5 and about 120 pounds.

A couple of those instances will blow a person's mind.

edit on 2011/8/17 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

It is called "The Bystander Effect" (one of the few things that stuck with me from Psychology 360 "Contemporary Social Problems" in college). The MORE people that you have standing around having just watched someone be injured, the LESS LIKELY the person who became injured is to get helped...I know I know I never fully understood it neither as I could NEVER see myself as being one to which that would apply, but look it up yourself...it's a proven scientific fact unfortunately

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

you strike a dude with a glass bottle then quote Gandhi lol.

Gandhi was actually a master tactician. Against overwhelming force, pacifism can be literally the only effective card you can play.

He also spent is off time giving "theraputic" enemas to twelve year old girls
:/ Dont judge a book by its propoganda.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

While walking out of a neighborhood corner store I saw a man beating his pre-teen/teen daughter. Two women stepped in and tried to calm the man down and help the girl, but as he held onto his daughter's hair he proceeded to batter these two women. As these two petite women bravely fought this large out of control man, I noticed a group of four or five men just standing there watching it unfold as if it was entertaining to them. Or maybe they were too scared to do anything.

That's just appalling...that people would stand by and not get involved...even if just to yell at the guy as they call the police, etc.

Personally, I'd do pretty much just what you did (although most times, I'm packing a stun gun that looks like a cell phone, hehe...) (I walk a couple blocks downtown each night, to get to my parking space after work, and I'm not a fan of fair play when it comes to my personal safety....)

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


people are too into themselves to help others

i don't think men care about "being a man" anymore

Another possible scenario that could still play out is that being a child/woman beater and that this thug will likely still have custody of the child or even if not he will likely hold the injury he sustained against the child and see it as the childs fault, wrongly of course. But it could very well be taken out further on the child, or even the mother (not present) at a later date. Thus extending the misery of the child.

The child could also feel gulty that her father was hit in the face with a bottle. I have seen this kind of thing first hand. It goes something like this - man abusing woman verbally or physically - onlooker beats crap out of abuser- onlooker leave's the scene- abuser then take's out the beating he got on the woman later and for an extended period. Or Abuser go's to jail then blames abusee and abuses her even more.

The key question to this story is. What are the final outcomes down the track ? Is the child now fatherless ? Or is the child being beaten again right now even worse because of what happened.

It is easy to intervene but then you must take responsibility for the results of the intervention. Did you go to the police station or ask the two women where they took the child ? Or check with the police on the welfare of the child. Because if no-one makes a statement to the police he might not be charged with anything and be home with the child by the next day to take it out on her again.

Go to the police station and check up on what is going on about it, that is what a real man would do.

Follow through, make a statement to the police so they can act against him accordingly and find out if the child is ok and with relatives.

Maybe the women abducted her. People are opportunistic, stranger things have happened.

Real men don't just walk away. We see it through to the end when we act. As soon as the guy hit the deck the cops should have been called and you should have stayed on the scene to make a statement to them.

Good job for stopping him though, I would probably do a similar thing if I seen it happenning, but I would definately follow up with the police. When you intervene you take responsibility like it or not.

Go to the nearest police station and tell them what happened and make some enquiries.

Cheers

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

I completely understand where your coming from here but I'd just like to point out two things;

1.) In Self defence, either for your own safety or that of others, your supposed to use a reasonable amount of force. I'm not in any way, shape or form condoning the man's actions (he had it coming to him really) but for your own protection I think it was unwise to bottle the guy, I don't know where about's in the world you reside but over here in the UK that would land you in serious trouble.

2.) A little family motto of mine is "Look after yourself, leave everyone else to it", that may sound a little harsh a first but I think everyone should look after number before they start looking after others (strangely enough something I fine incredibly difficult to do considering it's my own motto)

Sometimes people don't get involved because it isn't there problem, it's a sad but that seems to be the way life has become.

Also, I'd point out that sometimes people with good intentions who intervene often find the aggression then being directed at them, usually with not so great consequences....

It's a difficult task trying to define the point where you don't care and the point that as a fellow human being you have a moral obligation to get involved.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from here, like I said apart from the use of a bottle I can't really fault your actions.

Just my opinion, S+F by the way.

DK [/quote

Death Kron you are crazy. If you had been standing there.....of which you probably would have stood back and watched too.........but if you had been involved to protect the young girl, you would have used the bottle in self-defense too. It was NOT too much force. He would have crushed her if she had not done that.....she gave him no options, that is how you fight. To win. period.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


In my life experience so far, I have seen many, many men who harbor hatred for women. And I have seen men cower while women fight the battles. Many men do not respect women at all and that is how it is. As far as I'm concerned, only *real* men stand up for their women and fight beside them, and take care of their woman when she is weak and in need of support. A real man would never stand by and allow another man to beat a woman or animal. A real man is not the man who has the most toys or money. He is the man who carries himself with honor.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


But that's the thing...

This situation was a guy beating on an innocent girl who couldn't defend herself....

I'm asking, what if it was a guy beating up a innocent MAN who couldn't defend himself. It would be the exact same situation except instead of a female it would be a male. Would anyone help? And if not, why not?

Originally posted by mnmcandiez
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

people are too into themselves to help others

i don't think men care about "being a man" anymore

This is the truth. I have never seen a more lazy and complacent generation of young men and women in my life. Give them an iphone with hundreds of apps and they need nothing else much in life. They said that the 70's was the me generation but I think they got that wrong. This generation is the ME myself and I generation.

It's not really fair to say there are no real men out there, because there are good men who love their families and will do anything for them. But in general, stick a new shiny toy in front of someone and they don't have time to notice much of anything else.

reply to post by arpgme


When it comes to helping Women, society can never do enough. When it comes to helping men, well they can take care of themselves...

(That is the mentality we are dealing with in modern times.)

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Well then, if that's the case the OP and the supportive repliers aren't good people to begin with because this whole thing was rooted out of sexism...

It's a shame that people would run to protect a girl being abused but not a guy in the same exact situation. Absolutely disgusting.

I will only say this to that, if people get involved especially men the law book gets thrown at them.
Thats certainly how its done here.

reply to post by arpgme


I can't speak for other posters, just saying that seems to be the general attitude when it comes to these kinds of situations.

Originally posted by arpgme
But that's the thing...

This situation was a guy beating on an innocent girl who couldn't defend herself....

I'm asking, what if it was a guy beating up a innocent MAN who couldn't defend himself. It would be the exact same situation except instead of a female it would be a male. Would anyone help? And if not, why not?

I have called 911 on thugs that were beating on a male kid down the street. Obviously, I wouldn't physically intervene unless I had at least one super power, if not some martial arts skill. People do help. Regardless of gender. And in many forms. It doesn't always arrive in the form of a justified beat down.

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman
This is the truth. I have never seen a more lazy and complacent generation of young men and women in my life. Give them an iphone with hundreds of apps and they need nothing else much in life. They said that the 70's was the me generation but I think they got that wrong. This generation is the ME myself and I generation.

Here here. What about the Entitlement Generation. Everything is expected with minimal or no effort. Feeling entitled seems to promote being completely self absorbed, in little bubbles, waving hands away and saying "it's not MY problem". Unfortunate.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
When it comes to helping Women, society can never do enough. When it comes to helping men, well they can take care of themselves... (That is the mentality we are dealing with in modern times.)

I see a lot of posters speaking of humans. Both men and women with regard to social responsibility. I'm not sure how you arrived at this assumption.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Anyhow... The old man took off into the milk bar. As this is where I was going in the first place to buy a newspaper and milk, I went in to see if the old man was ok. It turned out he owned the milk bar. He didn't say thank you and the old prick charged me full price for my paper and milk. I quickly realised how an old ass like this got himself in that situation in the first place. I said to him... "no problem mate" as if to spur him into acknowledging what I just did for him... nup.. still no thank you. It's like it never happened.

Two words.... NEVER AGAIN!

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


I get it why you would say never again. But you never intervened for a reward, or acknowledgement. it would have been nice....however the point here is you intervened because what you saw happening was wrong. Regardless of whether someone appreciates it or not, Clearly your morals and standards are of a higher degree than others, even those you end up trying to help.

If you, by saying never again, choose to simply stand around next time you see something very wrong happening, how does that make you any better than those very people we all criticise for standing around doing nothing, when it counts the most?

PH

reply to post by RisePh03nix


I'm certainly not getting any younger and I have my own family to care about now. With all the news stories of people who have been turned into vegetables for intervening in 'domestic disputes', I would be more hesitant these days. My little girl is the most important thing in my life now and I want to be there for her into the foreseeable future. I'm not the risk taker I used to be. I think it's time for the next generation to step up!

IRM

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

In my life experience so far, I have seen many, many men who harbor hatred for women. And I have seen men cower while women fight the battles. Many men do not respect women at all and that is how it is. As far as I'm concerned, only *real* men stand up for their women and fight beside them, and take care of their woman when she is weak and in need of support. A real man would never stand by and allow another man to beat a woman or animal. A real man is not the man who has the most toys or money. He is the man who carries himself with honor.

I agree with what you say but women harbor the same amount of hatred towards me. your second to last sentence hits the nail on the head. mens priorities are messed up. most men today never grow up to be men they remain boys and that's why we have so much mistreatment of women. part of it is due to our conditioning in the world. look at how tv shows and movies depict men. men are depicted as incompetent meat heads who only care about sports cars and beer. (married with children home improvement shows like that are examples.) in other instance they are depicted as feminized weaklings that get ridiculed by children and women. (how I met your mother is an example.). even movies where the guy is a bad ass they all seem to be #ty husbands or fathers or just nasty to women. look at almost anyshow where the man ismarried to his work mad men comes to mind and brotherhood.

these shows mold the minds of men... and the people are surprised why we have spineless drunk sports chumps sports buffs who get bullied by men women and children... or drunks violent men who beat on women and children.

this is not to say women are peachy, but the corruption of men lead to how crappy women can be today.

In my life experience so far, I have seen many, many men who harbor hatred for women. And I have seen men cower while women fight the battles. Many men do not respect women at all and that is how it is. As far as I'm concerned, only *real* men stand up for their women and fight beside them, and take care of their woman when she is weak and in need of support. A real man would never stand by and allow another man to beat a woman or animal. A real man is not the man who has the most toys or money. He is the man who carries himself with honor.

Enough with the "real man" thing. If you are above a certain age, you are a man, regardless of what you think.

@yaluk: The solution? Have kids stop watching TV and they wouldn't grow up with those misconceptions. I haven't watched TV in years. I try to be myself and nothing more. And who's fault is it really? While the "real man" is at work the mom can just sit her kid down, turn the tv on and then do whatever. I've seen it on many occasions. Hell I've seen my mom do it more than once...