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Are republicans without conscience or empathy?

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posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


telling someone to leave a topic is real empathetic there...




posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


telling someone to leave a topic is real empathetic there...



Or forced empathy via Govt mandate.




posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


telling someone to leave a topic is real empathetic there...



Or forced empathy via Govt mandate.






That is why the left hates that nasty amendment: "Freedom of Speech"

They would prefer if all would shut up and get in line with them.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


yeah and talk about bigtory this thread is a classic disconnect they have.

hate for the rich
hate for the christians
hate for everyone who doesnt agree with their veiwpoints.

perfect examples and there are many in here.

i have never yet met a liberal democrat who has walk their talk

numerous threads on this site are the proof of this



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


telling someone to leave a topic is real empathetic there...



Neo,

I am trying to be fair and ask simple questions of the conscience.

Do you feel empathy toward low income families on welfare or toward illegal immigrants who escape their land to come here? Have you felt empathy toward gays who were not allowed to marry or serve openly in the military? Do you feel empathy toward the unemployed struggling for work and income who rely on unemplyment insurance to get by?

If you care, why might you vote against them... Wouldn't that require you to ignore conscience and empathy?

Do you find it easier to support government assistance to the wealthy over government assistance to the poor?



edit on 4-8-2011 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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I posted this prior, but needs to be repeated.



We hold these truths to be self–evident,
That all men are created equal,
That they are endowed by their Creator
with certain unalienable Rights,
That among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,
Deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Please read Spiritual Zombie. Let it marinate for a while. If you dont like it, to bad. Get use to it.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by kellynap43

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


telling someone to leave a topic is real empathetic there...



Or forced empathy via Govt mandate.






That is why the left hates that nasty amendment: "Freedom of Speech"

They would prefer if all would shut up and get in line with them.



This feels like a gang-up of hate.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by spiritualzombie

Originally posted by kellynap43

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


telling someone to leave a topic is real empathetic there...



Or forced empathy via Govt mandate.






That is why the left hates that nasty amendment: "Freedom of Speech"

They would prefer if all would shut up and get in line with them.



This feels like a gang-up of hate.


Thanks for explaining how most Conservatives feel. Hated.

I, and I do believe Neo and Kellynap do not hate you, nor anyone else. Not even those that wish to deny us our freedom.

You, express hate towards us, because we do not like Govt mandated empathy or compulsory charity.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


i do not support government assistance

i do not support ILLEGALS

dude i worked since i was 16 and when i didnt have enough money i picked up a second job and then when that didnt cut it i looked for better work a constant path of self improvement.

key word SELF

i drove 80 miles a day to and from work i did whatever it took to provide for me and mine.

my ideology was set in stone because i hated asking my dad for gas money and i swore never agian NEVER AGIAN would i ever have my hand out to anyone.

if anyone has any notion whatsoever of what FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE mean then empathy is nothing but sheer evilness.

there is no freedom or independence when you become dependent upon a government paycheck it cant happen and it will never happen

you way is a tomorrow no better than their today and no better than any of their yesterdays til they day they die.

not very empathetic pure evil.

if people cant wrap their heads around one simple concept of self reliance thats them not me and not anyone else because all that has done and has done has dragged the rest of us down since 1935..

all anyone has to do is look at the current state of the union to know the failure of empathy.

if you cant even take care of yourself how can anyone take care of anyone else case in point a 14 trillion debt and 50 trillion of "empathy" that can never be paid for.

and the bottom line is cash whose got it, who works for it and whose got their hands out for it.

meh.
edit on 4-8-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


Thank you.

I do not hate.

Just because I disagree with people, doesnt make me a hater. Or evil, or dumb.

Please try to understand that Spiritual Zombie.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Jezus
In some ways, but taxes are not punitive. They are a fundamental part of capitalism.

The only way the "capitalism game" can continue with competition is by taxing "the rich" the most.


Originally posted by macman
Just because they do not acquire assets, does not mean they benefit any less.


Actually it does. "The rich" benefit from and depend on "the government" much much more than anyone else.


That is bastardizing the Capitalist Model.
And yes, Taxes are Punitive, as with a sliding scale, the become more punitive the more you earn.


Taxing the rich more is absolutely a fundamental part of capitalism.

In capitalism wealth creates wealth. This allows individuals to obtain unlimited power. This destroys competition and balance. They can monopolize our natural resources, destroy the environment, and enslave the masses.

We can continue to play the "capitalism game" as long as "the rich" are taxed so that the government can keep enough power to prevent these extreme situations.

Also, taxes are not in anyway punative. It doesn't matter how you get the money; it is about faciliting the society that you used to obtain the money.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
if anyone has any notion whatsoever of what FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE mean then empathy is nothing but sheer evilness.

there is no freedom or independence when you become dependent upon a government paycheck it cant happen and it will never happen


You still don't understand that "the rich" are the most dependent on "the government" for their life style?

"The rich" benefit the most from "the government"; by far.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Jezus
In some ways, but taxes are not punitive. They are a fundamental part of capitalism.

The only way the "capitalism game" can continue with competition is by taxing "the rich" the most.


Originally posted by macman
Just because they do not acquire assets, does not mean they benefit any less.


Actually it does. "The rich" benefit from and depend on "the government" much much more than anyone else.


That is bastardizing the Capitalist Model.
And yes, Taxes are Punitive, as with a sliding scale, the become more punitive the more you earn.


Taxing the rich more is absolutely a fundamental part of capitalism.

In capitalism wealth creates wealth. This allows individuals to obtain unlimited power. This destroys competition and balance. They can monopolize our natural resources, destroy the environment, and enslave the masses.

We can continue to play the "capitalism game" as long as "the rich" are taxed so that the government can keep enough power to prevent these extreme situations.

Also, taxes are not in anyway punative. It doesn't matter how you get the money; it is about faciliting the society that you used to obtain the money.


No, it is not. It is the game of the Nanny Govt to tax the wealthy.
The is no definition within capitalism stating such.
Capitalism is the vessel, plain and simple. A vessel to allow an individual to create a widget/service, manufacture it and sell it. It is based on personal growth and wealth, not communal or the collective.

Again, bastardization of capitalism to form what a Nanny Govt, or Parent, deems fit.


And yes, taxes are punitive. It is applied as a sliding scale. The more you earn, the more that is taken from you.

If the taxes were flat, being all paid the same amount no matter what, then they would not be punitive.


edit on 4-8-2011 by macman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Jezus
In some ways, but taxes are not punitive. They are a fundamental part of capitalism.

The only way the "capitalism game" can continue with competition is by taxing "the rich" the most.


Originally posted by macman
Just because they do not acquire assets, does not mean they benefit any less.


Actually it does. "The rich" benefit from and depend on "the government" much much more than anyone else.


That is bastardizing the Capitalist Model.
And yes, Taxes are Punitive, as with a sliding scale, the become more punitive the more you earn.


Taxing the rich more is absolutely a fundamental part of capitalism.

In capitalism wealth creates wealth. This allows individuals to obtain unlimited power. This destroys competition and balance. They can monopolize our natural resources, destroy the environment, and enslave the masses.

We can continue to play the "capitalism game" as long as "the rich" are taxed so that the government can keep enough power to prevent these extreme situations.

Also, taxes are not in anyway punative. It doesn't matter how you get the money; it is about faciliting the society that you used to obtain the money.




Ask early 20th century Russia how the "faciliting of society" worked out for them. Give you a heads up, it wasnt good for them.




posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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written after the BP Disaster, but i knew this long ago in 1972.

Thoughts Towards the End by Rev. Ray (Sharky) Gorton


Cultures that do not recognize that human life and the natural world have a sacred dimension, an intrinsic value beyond monetary value, They cannibalize themselves until they die. They ruthlessly exploit the natural world and the members of their society in the name of progress until exhaustion or collapse, and build to a fury of their own self-destruction.

The Oil that poured into the Gulf of Mexico is part of the foolish death march. It is one more blow delivered by the Corporate State, the trade of life for gold.
But this time collapse, when it comes will not be confined to the geography of decayed civilization. It will be Global.

Those who carried out this Global genocide have followed what Sigmund Freud recognized as Thanatos or as we read in Enoch (the Evil Spirits of the children of the fallen watchers who were cursed to roam the Earth till the end of days)

These deformed individuals (weak willed in either party) have propelled the annihilation of all living things, including themselves.
They lack the capacity for empathy. They are banal and dangerous. They possess the peculiar ability to organize vast destructive bureaucracies and remain blind to the ramifications.
The death they dispense, whether in the pollutants and carcinogens that have made cancer an epidemic, the dead zone rapidly being created in the Gulf, the melting of the polar ice caps or the deaths of 45,000 last year without the ability to afford medical coverage, is part of the cold and rational exchange of life for money.
The Corporations and those who run them, consume, pollute, oppress and kill.

These little Eichmanns who manage them reside in a parallel universe of staggering wealth, luxury and splendid isolation that rivals that of the closed courts of Versailles.
These Elite, sheltered and enriched, continue to prosper even as the rest of us and the natural world start to die. They are numb. They will drain the last drop of profit from us until there is nothing left.

These technocrats mistake the art of manipulation with knowledge.
Our ruling class of Technocrats is effectively illiterate. They can not recognize the necessary relationship between power and morality.

Moral traditions are the product of civilization and they have little knowledge of their own civilization.
Call them “ Hedonist’s of power”.
They have the inability to link their power to the public good and make this power an abstract force, a force that works, more often then not, at a cross purpose to the real needs of a painfully real world.

Our Corporate State has gutted environmental regulation as tenaciously as it has gutted financial regulation and habeas corpus. Corporations make no distinction between our personal improvement and the impoverishment of the ecosystem that sustains the human species.


Karl Marx understood that unfettered capitalism is a revolutionary force.

This force is consuming us.

Karl Polanyi in 1944, laid out the devastating consequences:

The depressions, wars and totalitarianism, will grow out of a so called self regulated Free Market.
He grasped that “Fascism, like Socialism, was rooted in a Free Market Society” that refused to function.

Karl Polanyi warned, “That a financial system always devolved without heavy government control into a Mafia capitalism and a Mafia political system”, which by the way is a good description of our corporate government.
He also warned, “that when nature and human beings are objects, whose worth is determined by the market, then humans beings and nature are destroyed”.

Speculative excesses and growing inequality always dynamite the foundation for continued prosperity and ensure “the demolition of society”.

Robbed of the protective covering of cultural institutions, human beings would perish from the effects of social exposure; they would die as victims of acute social dislocation through vice, perversion, crime, and starvation.
Nature would be reduced to its elements, neighborhoods and landscapes defiled, river polluted, military safety jeopardized, the power to produce food and raw materials destroyed.

This could very well be “The End of Days” if not “the End of the World as You knew it”

It is for we who still have a sense of Moral Equity and Justice for all living beings whether it be Animal, Vegetable or Human that can change these who would see the Demolition of Society.

But you must Act before time runs out on Earth our only Home.

As for me I am a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT.
Social as in being for all people by their elected officials.
Democrat as in being for an elected body that represents the People not Corporations.

But since I believe in a Greater Power and the teachings of that Power many find me MAD, but there is a method to my madness and that is Loving all of Humanity made of Flesh and blood, unlike many here on ATS.,



Copyright 2009 by Rev. Ray Gorton



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 



Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by spiritualzombie


Honestly this all sounds like your excuse for remaining cold toward others. And maybe that's what I was asking for... for you to admit your lack of care toward others and give reasons for it, which you have. I find those reasons far from noble... far from selfless... in fact, very cold and often selfish. But you definitely have your reasons to block empathy from the equation.

That is what I have seen through these discussions... reasons to toss empathy aside which is what I suspected in the first place.

It is weak and insulting to help people, because in doing so, we internally feel resentment and think of them as children. Nevermind that a lot of people are able to offer assistance without those judgements against those in need. It seems more there is a problem with giving to poor without feeling resentment.

You guys can spin all you want, but it's clear in the way you label people as lazy, or make judgements against people who are struggling or suffering from inequalities, that there is much resentment and lack of compassion. And yet, time and time again, republicans justify government assistance to the wealthy.

I come from a place of wanting to help, and I vote from that desire to see equality and fairness played out... It seems republicans vote for themselves and money. I have yet to see republicans take a stance that would in anyway appear without greed or hate.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by spiritualzombie

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


telling someone to leave a topic is real empathetic there...



Neo,

I am trying to be fair and ask simple questions of the conscience.

Do you feel empathy toward low income families on welfare or toward illegal immigrants who escape their land to come here? Have you felt empathy toward gays who were not allowed to marry or serve openly in the military? Do you feel empathy toward the unemployed struggling for work and income who rely on unemplyment insurance to get by?

If you care, why might you vote against them... Wouldn't that require you to ignore conscience and empathy?

Do you find it easier to support government assistance to the wealthy over government assistance to the poor?


edit on 4-8-2011 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)


I know you were replying to Neo but I feel inclined to butt in.
Have you even read my post in this thread?
ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS DO NOT HELP THOSE WHO GET ON THEM.
People with your mindset are actually helping turn these people into modern day slaves.

It's really very simple, if you keep providing for someone you make them dependant on you. They will look to you to fill their needs. That's what these progams are in place for. Not to "help" but to enslave.

Be honest with yourself, if the government truly wanted to help then they could have used that money constructively years ago to help these people.

Yes, we want to help people. We want to teach them to be self sufficient, not wait for someone to send them a check in return for a vote.
You really are not helping these people with your current line of thinking, your just adding to the problem.
Dry your eyes, bandage the bleeding heart and WAKE UP!
Quad



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Quadrivium

Originally posted by spiritualzombie

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


telling someone to leave a topic is real empathetic there...



Neo,

I am trying to be fair and ask simple questions of the conscience.

Do you feel empathy toward low income families on welfare or toward illegal immigrants who escape their land to come here? Have you felt empathy toward gays who were not allowed to marry or serve openly in the military? Do you feel empathy toward the unemployed struggling for work and income who rely on unemplyment insurance to get by?

If you care, why might you vote against them... Wouldn't that require you to ignore conscience and empathy?

Do you find it easier to support government assistance to the wealthy over government assistance to the poor?


edit on 4-8-2011 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)


I know you were replying to Neo but I feel inclined to butt in.
Have you even read my post in this thread?
ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS DO NOT HELP THOSE WHO GET ON THEM.
People with your mindset are actually helping turn these people into modern day slaves.

It's really very simple, if you keep providing for someone you make them dependant on you. They will look to you to fill their needs. That's what these progams are in place for. Not to "help" but to enslave.

Be honest with yourself, if the government truly wanted to help then they could have used that money constructively years ago to help these people.

Yes, we want to help people. We want to teach them to be self sufficient, not wait for someone to send them a check in return for a vote.
You really are not helping these people with your current line of thinking, your just adding to the problem.
Dry your eyes, bandage the bleeding heart and WAKE UP!
Quad


I come from a family of welfare. I have seen the help it provides and have also experienced everything it does not provide. I am proud to say that my mom who raised both myself and my sister while on food stamps, managed to improve her education and find a good paying job. She has been working that same job now for over 25 years and now owns her own condo. It may not be the house she always dreamed of, but it's hers and she earned it.

I will never forget the day my mom tried to explain to me with so much happiness in her eyes, what it meant that she would no longer need food stamps, and all the things we would now be able to afford. I was about 10 at the time and didn't fully understand, but I could absolutely recognize her joy at freeing herself from welfare. My sister and I have only grown from there and it's only been as an adult that I could look back with extreme admiration at all the hard work she did even with that limited assistance to help us get out of that situation.

I absolutely resent the generalization that unemployment or welfare does not help. It was there when we needed it and I would hope it would always be there for others who need it too.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by macman
No, it is not. It is the game of the Nanny Govt to tax the wealthy.
The is no definition within capitalism stating such.
Capitalism is the vessel, plain and simple. A vessel to allow an individual to create a widget/service, manufacture it and sell it. It is based on personal growth and wealth, not communal or the collective.


I understand how that rationlization might make sense to you.

But you need to to think about capitlism within society. It is just a concept; and the main point of the concept is competition. Capitlism does not mean plutocracy.

You aren't dealing with reality.


Originally posted by macman
Again, bastardization of capitalism to form what a Nanny Govt, or Parent, deems fit.


Destroying the enviornment and enslaving the masses is bad for everyone...not just "the government".


Originally posted by macman
And yes, taxes are punitive. It is applied as a sliding scale. The more you earn, the more that is taken from you.

If the taxes were flat, being all paid the same amount no matter what, then they would not be punitive.


That isn't what punitive means...

It is not punative because it doesn't matter how you get it.
edit on 4-8-2011 by Jezus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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I believe in individual freedom. Freedom from state-sanctioned oppression. The freedom to make whatever good or bad decisions you wish, and therefore the inherent responsibility of living with the consequences, good or bad.

I believe in respecting all life and selflessness and abhor selfishness. I don't hunt. I don't kill any creature unless those that are entrusted to my care are in danger.

I believe in individual achievement, kindness, and the burden of passing wisdom and knowledge on to those I'm in a position to teach. (I teach University-level physics, so that part is easy).

I believe socialism and communism reward laziness, but that doesn't blind me to real need.

I volunteer, I donate what I can (the more the government takes from me, the less I have to donate, as I have to measure that against what it takes to ensure the security and well-being of my family).

I'm a conservative.

I fly Admiral Gadsden's flag outside my home. I own a lot of firearms. I served in the military. I'm a Tea Partier. Do with that what you will.



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