The Tea Party is anti-democratic and guilty of abuse of power, page 47

reply to post by orangetom1999

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They want free markets not rigged markets.

This is the heart of the problem, they think that by eliminating the controls on corporations they are creating some sort of free market, but in fact what is being created is a rigged market, just the opposite of what they claim that they want, and all attempts to de-regulate have consistently brought the same result, widespread corruption and a rigging of the markets.

Somebody voted for GW Bush, but few of those people are willing to own up to the fact of what a big mistake that was. They continue to believe that dereg policies of the GW admin, and tax cuts for the super rich are the formulas to economic success, when over and over again it has been proven to be the formula for disaster.

Yeah, I agree that the Democrats are no better. The Democrats have even less respect for the culture that made our nation great. While the founding fathers were for individual liberty, modern democrats are all for restricting the liberty of the individual.

There are a lot of minorities in liberal ranks promoting this idea that the only reason the U.S. is successful is because we got lucky, and all of our success is because our nation has so many great natural resources, ignoring the great number of natural resources other countries have. They ignore that those resources were of no value until U.S. and European cultures developed the technology to develop those resources making them to valuable.

They want to blame slavery on the U.S. and white people, and ignore that slavery was practiced around the planet, and under far more brutal ways than ever practiced in the U.S..

They want to ignore the role of the British in eliminating world wide slavery.

They want to act as if Europeans are the only people to have conquered others, ignore the on going Muslim conquest of Africa, and arguably India, and all of Eurasia.

They want to pretend that the people who run third world nations are not far more brutal to their own people than leaders of first world nations. They want to blame Western corporations for the problems that existed long before Western first world nations became so influential.

As bad as the democrats are, the republican are even worse. They desire the power over the U.S. people that third world oligarchies enjoy.

Republicans are all for restricting individual liberty, they want to dictate how we live our lives, down to what we are allowed to do in our own bedrooms. These people are backed by religious nutcases that send money to televangelists.

At the same time, republicans support policies that allow corporations and the super rich to be above the law. All too many conservatives seem to be in favor of actually wanting to establish a new aristocracy.

They are completely and totally hypocritical in their attacks against liberals, while pretending all is fine when their leaders do far worse things. They are obstinate to a level that is asinine.

I see the Tea Party people as being stuck inbetween. They bought into the whole free market con job, and they don't want to give it up.

It is a big fact to point out, that you can not be for smaller government, while for a huge military and world wide domination. The hypocrisy is beyond the pale.

I would like to think that the Tea Party people are waking up to the reality that the politicians they support are only interested in using our tax money, and the credit of our nation, to support a global corporate empire. We have this huge army, yet we can't stop an invasion on our southern border?

I would like to think that the Tea Party people are waking up to the reality that deregulation has only resulted in Bankers taking over control of our country.

But all too often I see an mentality that seeks to ignore the crimes of the corporations, and clings to the belief that all of our nations problems are the blame of ghetto welfare mothers.

They seem to want to continue to be wage slaves, competing against people in third world nations who have no rights, forced to work for slave wages, and choose to throw away the liberties our ancestors fought to obtain for this nation.

Originally posted by poet1b

They want free markets not rigged markets.

This is the heart of the problem, they think that by eliminating the controls on corporations they are creating some sort of free market, but in fact what is being created is a rigged market, just the opposite of what they claim that they want, and all attempts to de-regulate have consistently brought the same result, widespread corruption and a rigging of the markets.

All markets can be rigged. In a minute I am going to show you how a market can be rigged while blaming some other individuals for it. And they are rigged in a manner that not one person in a Thousand or even Ten Thousand can tell how it is being done. And I mean this Republican and Democrat both.

Somebody voted for GW Bush, but few of those people are willing to own up to the fact of what a big mistake that was. They continue to believe that dereg policies of the GW admin, and tax cuts for the super rich are the formulas to economic success, when over and over again it has been proven to be the formula for disaster.

This is one of the dumbest arguments for a rigged market and suitable corrections I have ever seen yet it is the most popular mantra here on ATS. This is beyond dumb when you know the pattern of the deception. This is the standard mantra or dogma today..of Good Cop/Bad Cop...Boogyman...looking for bad guys and creating them in peoples minds when you need to prevent people from seeing the real cause of the economic problems going on around us daily.

Here..concerning rising cotton prices and how it affects the printing of paper monies.

money.cnn.com...

Notice carefully how they declare it costs 9.6 cents to produce a one dollar bill. Since no silver or gold is given for or backing the notes...and we give up 100 cents to get one...that represents a 100 cents divided by .096 cents = 1041% profit. I don't know many people who make 1041% ;profit on a business deal.

Notice that they are stating that each one..each currency note costs 9.6 cents to produce. This means that the profit on a $100.00 note is 10,000 cents divided by .096= 104,166 %
Once again I don't know anyone outside of a counterfeiter who makes this kind of profit on a business deal..even people in the drug business do not make this kind of profit.

Who is the rich here since we give up $100.00 of our labor to get a $100.00 bill.

You have to go to school and be educated to be so dumb we don't get it anymore and are stuck on a ridiculous mantra like "Tax Breaks for the Rich.

When one can create monies by Deficit spending..their competition is the American People. It is the American people on whom government must control in order to not have Americans outspend the government and get first dibs on the goods and services out here. The method of doing this is to tax our monies earned at RISK in our occupations while the government gets monies easily and without RISK. They dumb us down by such idiocy as "Tax Breaks for the Rich" so that we do not see how government cheats us and rigs the marketplace.

Those businesses who have seen and know this about government are branded as bad guys..good cop/ bad cop for surviving and doing well in this rigged system.
It is an unholy alliance and template which government uses to divide and conquer us Americans..both Republican and Democrat .

For government is the RICH when they can get money easily on the backs of the people without RISK and without work. It is the olde shell game of divide and conquer. In order to hide this from most of us "Drama Queens " they feed us bad guys to watch so we don't notice what they are doing.
It is Divisive and not Uniting. It is a phony baloney. I fault the Republicans as well as the Democrats for neither are educating or teaching the people about what is obvious.

Tax Breaks for the Rich is a phony placebo to keep our eye off of government. All you have to do is know that they do not offer any gold, silver, or even copper for your labor anymore..but phony paper fiat monies.
This also makes a cheap mockery of the other popular phony mantra of today.."We are the 99%."
You have to be educated in the system to not catch it...ie..public education.

There are a lot of minorities in liberal ranks promoting this idea that the only reason the U.S. is successful is because we got lucky, and all of our success is because our nation has so many great natural resources, ignoring the great number of natural resources other countries have. They ignore that those resources were of no value until U.S. and European cultures developed the technology to develop those resources making them to valuable.

The minorities are wrong here. Totally wrong.

continuing on in the next post as I am running out of characters here.

edit on 23-10-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by orangetom1999

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Just a short comment for now.

Notice carefully how they declare it costs 9.6 cents to produce a one dollar bill. Since no silver or gold is given for or backing the notes...and we give up 100 cents to get one...that represents a 100 cents divided by .096 cents = 1041% profit. I don't know many people who make 1041% ;profit on a business deal.

Most money does not circulate as actual cash, paper currency, most money exists as nothing but a number on a ledger, an electronic ledger these days, and costs essentially nothing to produce. It is not the government that creates the money, it is private corporations, specifically banks. That is how the fiat money system works, and the banks control the money supply, not the government.

Big bank controlled corporations get their money through the fractional reserve money system, and don't have to take risk, or do anything to make a profit, except move numbers around in their complicated banking scam. All the risk gets put onto the taxpayers, because the banks can easily buy the politicians, and get people to control them because they control the media. This is why we are getting screwed by both ends.

Eliminate the control banks have over the money supply, and we can stop, or greatly reduce the banks control over the economy, and the way to do this is raise taxes on the super rich, who control the banks, up to the ceiling, and put stiff regulations on what banks are able to do with the money they create.

It worked in the fifties and the sixties, it can work now.

You know this, I know you know this, and you should know that I know this as well.

reply to post by poet1b

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Poet1b,

Although your facts here are correct..I am going to disagree with you on the solution.

Most money does not circulate as actual cash, paper currency, most money exists as nothing but a number on a ledger, an electronic ledger these days, and costs essentially nothing to produce. It is not the government that creates the money, it is private corporations, specifically banks. That is how the fiat money system works, and the banks control the money supply, not the government.

In costing essentially nothing to produce, and you are correct about electronic monies, the profit is even higher than the numbers suppllied by me for for paper notes. Amost infinite profit.

The number one borrower of fiat monies issued is the Government. When we borrow monies from a bank we must offset this over time...with our labor. Amortization if you like..at interest. When the government borrows on the backs of the public..we Amortize that as well. But the Government borrows unlimited off the banks and at the expense/Risk of the public.

Thus it is easy in this "one hand washes the other " system of fiat money borrowing by government.

The way to break this is to force the government and banks to go back to real hard monies which cannot be created out of thin air.

This is why Gadaffi had to go. He was proposing for Africa ..a gold coin which would have been a preferred monies over fiat issued currency by the major banks. It would have showed up their phony system and put Africa in the seat of economic and hence political power...for Africa has yet a huge untapped amount of resources.
It would have made Africa a power to contend with the big banking houses and governments of Europe and America...who do the dirty work for the banks and their investments.
Saddam Hussein was doing similar in selling the "Oil for Food." He was making himself independent in an Oil Rigged marketplace. And this marketplace of oil and banking does not tolerate independents.

It is similar to four drug dealers at a four way intersection. One of them undercuts the price of the others...eventually the others will join and turn on the one to get rid of his competition. When it is over ..it is back to business as usual.

Oil, like banking, diamonds, and other commodities, is a rigged marketplace. Governments are the boot lackeys to this system and get all the monies they want if they play ball to these systems.

Solid monies is what keeps this system in check. A substance used as monies which cannot be created out of thin air...A just weight and measure much like measuring spoons or measuring cups in Moma';s kitchen. You are measuring real stuff as money..not a recipt on a piece of paper for monies kept somewhere..but you never see it.

And "Modern Money Mechanics " by the Federal Reserve will tell you that what is backing money today has little but booking significance.

You have to go back to a money which measures real stuff..not easily created monies on a ledger or printed numbers on notes. This keeps both the government and the banks in check because they cannot create this out of thin air.

You also need to have banks on a system where they cannot create monies by loans..but give out real substance when they loan. This way banks cannot create moneys by creating loans. Because under our current system ..the biggest customer of the banks is government. And Government is heavily in competition with its citizens in the one marketplace which exists out here.

And this government will sell the very souls of its citizens to keep and maintain power ..while trying not to be seen for the "Wildlife" that they are. Republicans and Democrats both.


Thanks,
Orangetom

edit on 25-10-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by orangetom1999

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And this marketplace of oil and banking does not tolerate independents.

YEP, you got it. This is the hard reality that the tea party people are not facing IMO.

Free market policies put all the power into the hands of the International Corporate Bankers.

Oil, like banking, diamonds, and other commodities, is a rigged marketplace. Governments are the boot lackeys to this system and get all the monies they want if they play ball to these systems.

I think you got this part right and part wrong.Yes, these markets are completely rigged, and, once again, this is a direct result of free market policies. The most rigged market of all these days is labor. That big military budget where most of the fed budget goes to, exists purely to maintain that cheap labor market for the ICBs. Notice how the free market preaching politicians keep the U.S. military budget as their sacred cow? 9-11 and the Mexican invasion have proven that our military does nothing to protect the people of the U.S. or our borders.

The thing is, government doesn't get money in these system, government borrows the money from the ICBs, and thus becomes the servant of the ICBs. This is the main goal of those who want to shrink the U.S. government down to the size, where they can drown it like a baby in bath water.

The whole gold reserve currency belief, is IMO, nothing but smoke and mirrors. A completely impossible scenario to keep people off the trail, and away from the real solution. Gold is a valuable commodity best used in electronics, or as jewelry, not kept in vaults.

A better answer is to tell the ICBs they are on their own, and start using our own U.S. Treasury Notes. Make the ICBs pay back all the fed res debt. The money was borrowed for them, so they should pay back that money. They are the ones doing the floating of the whole international currency scheme. They should be the ones who have to maintain it.

The problem then becomes, what do we base the value of our currency on?

There are two things humans produce that create all wealth, labor and ideas. In other words, goods and services, and technology. Essentially, this is what the value of a nations currency is based on.

The problem is debt creation. Debt is the blood of the ICBs, so the more debt, the happier they are, and the more screwed the rest of us are. Want to get a job, get buried in debt to pay for college. Want to buy a house, get buried in debt again. Need a transportation source, once again, borrow money.

If debt was limited, the price of all of these items would be a small fraction of what they currently are. Loose lending policies only drive up the prices on everything.

Bring back usury laws against high interest rates, and make credit rating a government function, that is done in a fair manner, requiring proof of legitimate debt and failure to pay. Private businesses should not be empowered to take property away from people, and they should not be in charge of something like credit. The current credit rating system is corrupt, and completely insane. The ICBs love this system, you can tell by the massive numbers of commercials they put out. Your credit rating is your slave score.

Tech is the biggest producer of wealth, and always has been, and probably always will. If the worlds greatest tech innovators were also the worlds riches men, then I would agree they earned their money, but the worlds richest are primarily the worlds most underhanded con artists.

When the Tea Party wakes up to that reality, then maybe we can get our country, and then our economy, back on the right track. Then we can come together in the middle, start our own party, and elect representative politicians who get our government back to doing what it is supposed to do, which is protect the rights of individuals, over the ICBs.

reply to post by poet1b

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Free market policies put all the power into the hands of the International Corporate Bankers.

This is a misnomer...it is only a sales pitch..it is not a free market..it is a rigged market. People have always tried to rig the markets..even when there was gold and silver coinage in circulation. Let the buyer beware.
Like politics..the product is not the product advertised.

Although It has been years since I read it..I have in my private collection a book titled "One Way Pockets"


www.amazon.com...


As I recall this book was written in the 1920s. It tells how the markets are rigged against ordinary peoples.

Education is the key..and not a public education..but a "Real" education. A concept you will not get from the Politicians who finance public education.

The whole gold reserve currency belief, is IMO, nothing but smoke and mirrors.

The gold reserve currency is indeed smoke and mirrors. This is different from a "Lawful Tender" Gold and silver and copper coinage by wieght and fineness of the "Substance." There is a difference in a legal tender and a lawful tender. Also in Lawful Monies.

A reserve currency as the dollar is being used today..is a bit different. However ..when the world decides not to use the dollar as the international standard or reserve currency ..this nation is going to be in huge trouble as then people will find out what is hyperinflation. And then the "Whorish" spin doctors will be giving us all kinds of excuses/enemies to protect and hide those who are causing it.

I just finished reading a book titled.

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.
by
John Perkins.

www.amazon.com...

This has been a very interesting book as he details in it how banks and firms loan monies to foreign governments for improvement projects and then proceed to get these governments into deeper debt of which they can never get out.

What is interesting to me is the template he describes by which only a handful of nation did not follow this debt template..one of which is Iran and the other Iraq..under Saddam. Also today ..Libya. And we see what happened to most of these nations. Iran is bad juju in the media...and they daily brainwash us with good cop/bad cop about Iran.
Not that I believe Iran is a good guy..but also I know for sure that neither is our own government here in the states. What we have here is two bad guys going at it and dragging their own people into the sewer while going at it.

Also the author describes the banking involvement in subverting the government of Ecuador, and also Panama and for lucre and power.
Those nations which try to get out of the international banking control and designs are often brought to war/'economic collapse...by conflict with their neighbors..such as is the case with Ecuador and Peru. A war in which most of America knew nothing.

The relationship between the bankers ...the NSA/CIA and the Military. The military is the last one called in when things go really bad and the others cannot handle it. Subversion of a government...overthrow and revolution is the fingerprint usually used...as is or was done in Egypt and Libya. Cultivating and financing the overthrow and destabilization of a government and replacing it with the desired government. Not necessarily one suitable to the American Public but one useful and controllable by the Bankers.
That is when companies/construction companies go in after the loans are finalized and set up shop to build all these projects on the loans. Some in these nations are enriched but many are not.

It was very very interesting reading.

There are no good guys in this type of thing.

This type of system is Luciferian in its nature. For those in the know it is sometimes described as
a "Sun Clothed Woman with the cup of the wine of fornication in her hands."
A "Sun Clothed Woman" for whom all the nations have drunken of her wine and delicacies.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by NoHierarchy

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The Tea Party is not the republican party. They do not like us and we do not like them. The Tea Party people you see on the on the MSM and Fox are not the Tea Party. The Tea Party Express in not the Tea Party, The Tea Party Nation is not the Tea Party. All of those types of groups are not the Tea Party. My Tea Party Group is less than a 100 people, throw the smaller town and the College Town make 200 or so people..I live in a small rural town . No head guy, a couple people that will bring a guest speaker.

The problem with progressives is they do not have the same group of people. OWS? I do not think so. I am a reformed democrat who tends to be more Libertarian on a lot of things.

If The democrats do not like the Tea Party then start your own... The facebook page that tried to start the coffee party did not make it..... I do not have a link because this is just my fealings

reply to post by poet1b

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We have not been on the gold standard since Richard Nixon in 1971 it is all funny money

reply to post by orangetom1999

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Using the con of the free market, over the last thirty years, the bankers have resurrected a great deal of the policies in place during the twenties, back when Coolidge was promoting the idea that "The business of America is business", and bankers ruled the planet.

It is not just the U.S. bankers pulling this scam, this is international. They are all pulling their own scams. The people who run the third world nations typically are even more corrupt than the people who run the first world nations. Iran and Iraq did not follow this scheme because they were even too radical even for the bankers, and the same is true to Libya.

The way to solve this problem is to do just the opposite of what the free market people preach. Develop and start enforcing strong effective regulations of bankers, and re-instate the laws against usury, restricting what interest rates can be charged.

Banks shouldn't be able to take money out of peoples accounts, unless it has been specifically approved. It is time to end all these ridiculous fees banks are charging, and eliminate the insane credit rating policies, and instate a system that is fair.

While we are at it, time to raise taxes on the super wealthy up the wazoo, until our national debt is back to a reasonable amount. The most effective way at this point would probably be to create wealth taxes.

Corporations should be paying high taxes on goods and services that cross state and national borders. The costs of those goods and services should reflect the cost of government regulation, and that big military protecting the international trade. That way small businesses wouldn't be forced to continue to subsidize big corporations, and individuals wouldn't be subsidizing the exportation of their jobs.

reply to post by poet1b

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poet1b,

It has been awhile since I have posted on this thread.

However I have not forgotten it.

It is not just the U.S. bankers pulling this scam, this is international. They are all pulling their own scams. The people who run the third world nations typically are even more corrupt than the people who run the first world nations. Iran and Iraq did not follow this scheme because they were even too radical even for the bankers, and the same is true to Libya.

What you say about the banks being international is true. The problem with these internationalists is that they don't like other banking systems which are operating independent of them ..Iran, Iraq, and Libya et al.

They prefer everyone under one happy over regulated system..where the big internationalists are using/ misusing governments to do their dirty work for them. Let us translate that as rigging the marketplace for them and their profit.

When you say they are all pulling their own scams...you can translate that as rigging the marketplace...with governments doing the regulating/rigging for them. Governments are their institutions..their private fiefdom. And you think government is going to set things aright.....I don't think so.

Only a sound money system and a truly free market will take care of this. A true free market where competition abounds..the very thing government and internationalists don't want.

Competition is what lowers prices and makes good and services available...not rigged marketplaces. Rigged marketplaces only raise prices and reduce the availability of goods and services.

And competition arises when you have honest monies..not the government rigging and stealing from everyone in the marketplace by fiat and fast money creation.

A truly free market..where the market determines..not internationalists.

Government rigging/scamming of the marketplace for the internationalists..is the problem..under both democrats and republicans. No difference.

For Internationalists have no loyalty to any nation..but only to their profits/control.

They...through their government lackeys... will sell the very souls of any nations and any peoples for profit and control. History has amply proven this out..through the centuries.

Thanks,
Orangetom

edit on 17-11-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by orangetom1999

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What you need to recognize is that as Government has backed off from regulating the banks and the finance sector, the banks and the finance sector has stepped up its regulation of individual liberties, stacking insane rules impossible to follow into every contract and stripping people of their property on a continuous bases.

The biggest problem with our government is that people vote for politicians preaching this free market scam, who then turn over all power to the International Corporate Bankers, and work to eliminate democracy.

There is no such thing as a free market, it is a scam. The ICBers rig the markets by getting government to eliminate the rules that the bankers are supposed to follow. The ICBers then write their own rules, vastly in their favor, and we all get screwed, except the ICBers. This should be obvious by now.

For competitive markets to exist, we need an evenly enforced fair set of rules to maintain competition, just like professional sports. The only way to establish this is through representative government. While the ICBers get by with these scams through various periods in history, representative government has also succeeded in in putting those ICBers back into check, and setting up a legitimate system based on a fair set of evenly enforce rules. That is what we need to do again.

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