Hippies lying down in front of cars getting run over.

reply to post by jvm222


I think you and others are sidestepping the point here (though most likely not intentionally). I don't think this is about what they are protesting or that they are doing it at all. it doesn't matter if you agree with their cause or not. I think the question should be, is it okay to run them over if it is in your power to avoid doing so after they lay down in the road just because they are stupid and you have somewhere to be.

Let's imagine some stupid kids playing around in the street. They aren't protesting anything. They are just playing in their neighborhood and do something retarded like lie down in the road as a car is coming to try to mess with the driver and make his or her probably already bad day worse. If the driver stops but the kid refuses to move, does that give the driver the right to run him over?

Originally posted by AliceBlackman
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Jean Paul,

they will put you in jail if you don't file and pay, very very few folks have actually managed to fight this and win on the actual legal basis as you correctly state.

Had the Founders of this nation lost the American Revolutionary War, they would have been hanged, and they were fully aware of this. Even so, they stood by the convictions of their actions, and not by sitting poutily in front of carriages and horses protesting tax on teas. The were cause over their complaints, and now here we are today a nation of people willingly calling ourselves "taxpayers" and filing personal information regarding our persons. Under the tyranny of King George of England income tax was non existent and our the Revolution was sparked by a tax on tea...a tax on tea!

Today, far too many Americans pay a tax on income they don't even owe in order to fund this behemoth "superpower" tyrannical nation it has become. The United States imprisons more people than any other industrialized nation in the world, they are involved in several different wars and excursions and all of this is paid for by this odious "income" tax. As Chief Justice Marshall once said: "The power to tax is the power to destroy", and We the People, in accepting liability for an "income" most of us are not even liable for, have destroyed our nation.

How do we fix this? Sitting down in the middle of traffic waiting for someone to run us over? Really? Seriously? This is our courage today?

any protest against anything bad is better than no protest IMO. Might seem 'dumb', but its brought it to the attention and at least they are doing something, most folk just sit on their ass doing nothing but complain. Its about time we all did a protest, (ok, maybe not lying down infront of cars) but something

reply to post by Michelangelo


All Citizens and their future generations pay the price of these Wars one way or another not to mention human beings all over our "global economy" , so I fail to see how they can not claim the wars as a cause, especially since as soon as they get a job (may already have jobs), they too will be contributing the fruit of their labor to these wars.
There is no widely agreed on figure for the number of people that have been killed so far in the War on Terror as it has been defined by the Bush Administration to include the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, and operations elsewhere. Some estimates include the following:

Iraq: 62,570 to 1,124,000 A minimum of 62,570 civilian deaths reported in the mass media up to 28 April 2007 according to Iraq Body Count project. 4.5 million refugees and cost the US more than the sum needed to pay off the debts of every poor nation on earth. What is certain is the wretched state of health care in Iraq. In March 2006 the campaign group Medact reported that 18,000 physicians have left since 2003; an estimated 250 of those that remained have been kidnapped and, in 2005 alone, 65 killed. Medact also said that "easily treatable conditions such as diarrhoea and respiratory illness caused 70 per cent of all child deaths", and that "of the 180 health clinics the US hoped to build by the end of 2005, only four have been completed and none has been opened". In May, a survey by the Iraq government and Unicef reported that a quarter of all Iraqi children suffer from malnutrition.

Afghanistan: between 10,960 and 49,600 , between 3,100 and 3,600 civilians were directly killed by US Operation Enduring Freedom bombing and Special Forces attacks between October 7, 2001 and June 3, 2003. This estimate counts only "impact deaths"—deaths that occurred in the immediate aftermath of an explosion or shooting
Pakistan: between 1467 and 2334 killed in U.S. drone attacks as of May 6, 2011
Somalia: 7,000+
In December 2007, The Elman Peace and Human Rights Organization said it had verified 6,500 civilian deaths, 8,516 people wounded, and 1.5 million displaced from homes in Mogadishu alone during the year 2007.[
Total American casualties 54,800 +
A March 2011 Congressional Research Service report, “The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War on Terror Operations Since 9/11,"
The report states that the price tag through fiscal year 2011 for such purposes as military operations, base security, reconstruction, foreign aid, embassy costs, and veterans’ health care will be $1.283 trillion. If the fiscal year budget for 2012 is approved, the total global security and conflict-related costs will be $1.415 trillion.

For Heaven's sake, that girl could've been someone's daughter, sister and boyfriend, she get ran over, probably all her ribs and spinal broken and all organs destroyed, made vegetable for the rest of her life. I don't want to be a human anymore!!! I just realized we're savage animals.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


In my opinion, you seem to advocate violent protest's, instead of peaceful protest's; such as sit in protest's on a road.

Originally posted by Erno86
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

In my opinion, you seem to advocate violent protest's, instead of peaceful protest's; such as sit in protest's on a road.

Not at all, and in my opinion you seem to want to frame my arguments as such because it fits nicely with the modern proclivity of the military industrial complexes assertion of "homegrown terrorism". Ironic no, that your own cognitive dissonance has you now attempting to defend war protestors limp wristed strategy by acting as a tool for the military industrial complex and working towards shutting down speech you don't agree with. Hmmmm, interesting.

I am on record in this site as an advocate of velvet revolution, or peaceful revolution. I am indeed an advocate of CAUSE, and it is interesting that because I clearly am, you attempt to frame that CAUSE as "violent protest". I respectfully submit that "violent protest" is nothing more than temper tantrum, but that CAUSE is action that works.

reply to post by dolphinfan

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Indeed. I find it no different than the Rachel Corrie business. You kneel down in front of a bulldozer and bad things are going to happen to you. Thats the thing with shields, including the human type. They get hit with things, thats kind of their purpose.

I have to laugh at the term "Hippies" - they, the real hippies, are in their late sixties now at least. We're talking colostomy bags and dentures. Most are in South Florida are now sucking mojitos thru a straw after "selling out" and making retirement age.

FYI: I am in my late fourties and working still.

These appear to be younger ppl than I who are acting stupidly, no doubt because some wonderful rainbow vision of the 60's was painted in their minds as they were growing up.

An irresistible force definitely trumps a small pink bag of flesh in a conflict. Unless that flesh bag is well armed.

I was heading home on leave, early eighties, going through O'hare in Chicago to Norfolk VA from the west coast. My mother was ill and in the hospital. Any one here remember the Hare Krishnas? Shaved headed assholes who smelled bad and banged tamborines? Like the rainbow people.

I had to get from one side of O'hare to the other in 25 minutes or face 10 hour plus layover with my mom in the hospital; this was the early eighties. A crowd of these useless Hare asslickers got in my way, escorted by Chitown PD to keep the peace. I swear to God every cop there developed sudden and accute blindness. I made it through on time.

reply to post by Jonas86


well maybe her parents should have told her that roads can be dangerous...regardless of your political outlook and that lying down on one, let alone leaping in front of a moving vehicle (vid 2) can be very dangerous and should be avoided!

Fortunately, (according the videos) no one died, nor were they seriously injured, we should all be thankful of that and teach our children that if they undertake dangerous protests they might get hurt!

Let us all find another way to make our voices heard!

And I'll just say it again even though 5 posts ago I said I wouldn't....I do not condone motorists running over protesters lying in the road, just so they can get to work on time (or any other reason if it was deliberate) But protesters should also understand that there are circumstances where you should not block a road as you may inadvertantly cause pain and suffering or even death to someone else who needs to get through that road urgently!

reply to post by Somehumanbeing


I know this thread was written tongue in cheek but some of these responses are downright inhuman. come on folks. its never cool to hit someone with you car, especially when you know they're right in front of it. even if you disagree with them. even if you think they are "dirty hippies."

BUT especially if you are late to work. if your boss wont accept "i was blocked by a sit in and it was 'run over another human being' or 'be late to work'" as an excuse, then they aren't a person you should work for. Yes, we all have families to support. then again, if my daughter was in front of a car protesting, misguided or not, I'd hope the tardy workman driving would remember that the girl blocking him is someones daughter, just like the one he supports by working.

this sort of "Us Vs Them survival of the fittest" extremism is however, I must admit, a great example of whats wrong with many societies today.

Originally posted by chaeone86
reply to post by Somehumanbeing

 

I know this thread was written tongue in cheek but some of these responses are downright inhuman. come on folks. its never cool to hit someone with you car, especially when you know they're right in front of it. even if you disagree with them. even if you think they are "dirty hippies."

BUT especially if you are late to work. if your boss wont accept "i was blocked by a sit in and it was 'run over another human being' or 'be late to work'" as an excuse, then they aren't a person you should work for. Yes, we all have families to support. then again, if my daughter was in front of a car protesting, misguided or not, I'd hope the tardy workman driving would remember that the girl blocking him is someones daughter, just like the one he supports by working.

this sort of "Us Vs Them survival of the fittest" extremism is however, I must admit, a great example of whats wrong with many societies today.

Oh my, it took 17 pages for someone to get it . Anyway yeah, I agree with you, by deserved I meant that it is expected that something negative would occur, so their initial shock at having something occur dumbfounded me. You can't protest peacefully against people that are so hopelessly dependant on the government.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Thomas Paine, sitting in the comfort of his own home, wrote Common Sense and inspired a population to revolution. Thomas Jefferson, who never fought in that American Revolution, wrote the Declaration of Independence in defense of this revolution. What Paine, Jefferson did, and I am now doing is praising causative actions that actually fix problems. Sitting in front of traffic is not cause, it is foolish effect, and is most assuredly limp wristed.

I believe here we can say that the "Pen is mightier than the sword" for the pen in many cases gives cause to use the sword. But only because that Cause was sought after by not just a small group of peoples. While I respect the convictions that these "hippies" as they are called have, they are not effecting anything beyond their own sphere of influence.

What is the cause of such acts to knowingly martyr yourself under the guise of "protesting" when all it will do is get a 5 second sound bite on the local news or a poorly written article in the local rag? This is children thinking they are being profound. They aren't. They are filled with this sense of idealism and grandeur thinking they know how to fix things. I am not saying all, but this type of "protest" only shows the stupidity of the youth that is engaging in it.

It has made me realize we have moved so far back in sophistication that we have forgotten the power we hold when we use our brains. Instead we hope to affect change by throwing a temper tantrum.

On a more personal note and I will explain that Jean Paul and I are friends. With that disclosure I will explain how we became friends. Mainly this is directed towards those that think he is advocating 'violent' means, which is far from the truth as I understand it.

Over a year ago I joined this site and was set in my ways that there was no other way to fix anything other than start anew and that the only means to achieve that was going to be a violent uprising of the People. Throughout my first couple of months I was engaged by Jean Paul and his opinions that the ways to change the system do not always start with the gun nor do they have to. He has constantly advocated for change but not through violent means. At first I was not quite understanding the principles of such thought but realized that by using the very systems in place we can effect change far greater than taking arms against our brothers.

Eventhoguh these protesters methods may have been misguidied for some to find the pain and suffering of others amusing they must have somethng wrong with them .

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Thomas Paine, sitting in the comfort of his own home, wrote Common Sense and inspired a population to revolution. Thomas Jefferson, who never fought in that American Revolution, wrote the Declaration of Independence in defense of this revolution. What Paine, Jefferson did, and I am now doing is praising causative actions that actually fix problems. Sitting in front of traffic is not cause, it is foolish effect, and is most assuredly limp wristed.

I believe here we can say that the "Pen is mightier than the sword" for the pen in many cases gives cause to use the sword. But only because that Cause was sought after by not just a small group of peoples. While I respect the convictions that these "hippies" as they are called have, they are not effecting anything beyond their own sphere of influence.

What is the cause of such acts to knowingly martyr yourself under the guise of "protesting" when all it will do is get a 5 second sound bite on the local news or a poorly written article in the local rag? This is children thinking they are being profound. They aren't. They are filled with this sense of idealism and grandeur thinking they know how to fix things. I am not saying all, but this type of "protest" only shows the stupidity of the youth that is engaging in it.

It has made me realize we have moved so far back in sophistication that we have forgotten the power we hold when we use our brains. Instead we hope to affect change by throwing a temper tantrum.

On a more personal note and I will explain that Jean Paul and I are friends. With that disclosure I will explain how we became friends. Mainly this is directed towards those that think he is advocating 'violent' means, which is far from the truth as I understand it.

Over a year ago I joined this site and was set in my ways that there was no other way to fix anything other than start anew and that the only means to achieve that was going to be a violent uprising of the People. Throughout my first couple of months I was engaged by Jean Paul and his opinions that the ways to change the system do not always start with the gun nor do they have to. He has constantly advocated for change but not through violent means. At first I was not quite understanding the principles of such thought but realized that by using the very systems in place we can effect change far greater than taking arms against our brothers.

The problem isn't the method they used at all.

Social media is far more influential than books these days...

and a 80 year old metaphorical cliche isn't going to agree but I am okay with that.

These kids got heard, the problem is much deeper.

Nobody wants to listen, they would much rather bitch at each other and call the kids or the drivers stupid.

those kids shouldn't block traffic like that - what if someone urgently needs to go to the hospital but can't cause he/she is stuck in a traffic jam caused by these kids who think they're part of something big...but the guy overreacted when he ran them over (he looked older, perhaps he was scared by the people)

These protestors must be stopped for causing anguish to ordinary citizens.What if the citizens they are terrorizing and stopping from driving their cars have heart conditions,prone to seizures...It cannot be tolerated that ordinary citizens be treated like this from these protestors.They dont care about other peoples lives,or the damage they do.Stop these monsters.

reply to post by TheOrangeBrood


Even the simple minded understand that "stupid is as stupid does". The misguided actions of stupidity may or may not have been "heard", but they accomplished nothing but personal sacrifice. Sacrifice is insane. Ironically, while you lament the fact that many are arguing with each other over who was more stupid, you seem to also have the problem with a call to action. Real CAUSATIVE action that will not only be heard, but work.

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood
The problem isn't the method they used at all.
Social media is far more influential than books these days...

and a 80 year old metaphorical cliche isn't going to agree but I am okay with that.

These kids got heard, the problem is much deeper.

Nobody wants to listen, they would much rather bitch at each other and call the kids or the drivers stupid.

If social media is much more influential, then why did they resort to this method. These kids were not the lone protester in Tienanmen Square standing squarely in front a tank. This man was taking a stand in front of the cause. Not hopes to get some attention from the media. That is protest. He stood for a greater cause and while some may try to make a connection between such action and these kids there is none.

The notion that people don't want to listen is absurd! The problem is people don't know how to effectively rouse the people to listen, to care, to rise to action. Communication it seems in the common world of instantaneous expression of ideas died out a long time ago.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Direct Income Tax Civil disobedience massive enough to make any difference for any cause , I think would only occur if a majority of citizens believed they had nothing left to lose. If they had nothing left to lose, they probably wouldn’t be paying Income tax.

I guess from those kids point of view it's no good them not paying taxes, especially if they do not work, if they do they will most likely be jailed and that doesn't tend to make sensational headlines, jailed for tax evasion, so no publicity for the cause. Most Americans I think accept (and maybe some grumble) about the ongoing military interventions.
There are some folks out there that are fighting this income tax stuff, but obviously they end up incarcerated and have their assets seized ;a few folks according to u-tube video’s claim to have proved that there is no actual law saying we have to file a tax return and been found not guilty.
But get in front of most juries and you will be found guilty of not obeying tax code and they will jail you. We've all heard about the celeb cases.
Some folks quoting case law say the law only defines income as basically corporate profits.

Of course our taxes do pay for social services benefits (as the govt borrowed from our payroll deducted funds), so it would create a lot of hardship to folks if the Govt did not get their money and so did not send out the checks to our seniors the unwell and poverty stricken children.

Of course our taxes do also pay for social services benefits etc so it would create a lot of hardship to folks if the Govt did not get our money, it would take an awful lot of organizing to protect those folks.

www.youtube.com...
www.famguardian.org...

HAHAHA CLASSIC!!!!!

I was a part of the "reclaim the streets" movement back in the UK when I was about 17-19 yrs of age.

What we did was take two huge trucks complete with dj's and sound system.. we would all march behind the trucks with our banners etc.. then we would choose the busiest road and park the two trucks (one at the beginning of the road and one at the other end to block all traffic) then crank the choons and have a street party..

when we were finally moved along.. we would simply move to a local park or field and continue our party throughout the weekend celebrating our win/loose/waste of time .. (lol) etc.... I remember one year about 100 officers actually followed us to the after party complete with riot gear and ... wait for it..... wearing no numbers and getting very agro with us all. They promissed us forced action if we turned on our sound systems again.

It was a lot of fun and a damned sight safer than lying down in front of cars.... i mean you have to be pretty damned stupid to do that crap!

Bloody students thinking they can change the world by dying in front of a car... well I guess they can change the local headlines from "Bankster busted" to "stupid prat dies by being a complete tool and not changing a thing in the process with a tiny wee mention of what they were supposed to be doing in the first place"

a big phat meh from me on this one! hehehehehe