Lee Bowers - A Murdered Witness

reply to post by canadiansenior70

I know the driver, Greer, has been suspected by many, but believe that to be wrong (lighting.)

Thanks for your post - one which is a great opportunity to expand on what you happened to say above. This being so, here is frame 312 from the Zapruder film, a single frame before the fatal head shot (which translates to approximately 0.6 seconds). The claim is the lighting we see next to Greer is an actual gun, but with this enhanced image, we can see it's certainly no such thing:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bf4e71336af0.jpg[/atsimg]

Notice the alleged gun is quite obviously Kellermans head?

The Zapruder film went relatively fast, and most versions of the film are low quality thus why people suspect a gun here. And I can see why because It really does look like a gun when seeing these versions, but with these enhanced images we can see It's no such thing..

Here's a zoomed in image of his left hand also, this being another suspected position of a gun:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3ab90b0e048.gif[/atsimg]

Notice the 2 red circles (these being suspected gun areas). Also notice how no gun seems to be present in either image? We can even make out the shape of his hand, not forgetting the glare from the sun is consistent with him and everyone else also.

It's for this reason I feel this theory has been debunked.

Here's another thread where I discussed this in further detail.

Hey lambros56. Thanks for your post and your kind words.

The reason I'm posting though, is because of what you said here:

I do have a feeling that the ones who ordered Kennedy`s assassination are the same Cabal who ordered 9/11.

In case you haven't see this, here's an absolutely facinating video from Jack Ruby where he practically reveals Lyndon Johnson, the man I personally believe ordered the assassination, as the man responsible. It's a very short video but It speaks louder than most:



I hope you get a chance to watch. It's very interesting.

Anyway, upon taking a further look into this, I found something very interesting. Firstly though, have you ever wondered how the man who took over the Warren Commission actually got the job? We all know it seemed to be corrupt after all.. Well, this man was called Earl Warren - hence the name of the commission. Here's a snippet explaining how he "got the job" so to speak:

After the death of John F. Kennedy in 1963 his deputy, Lyndon B. Johnson, was appointed president. He immediately set up a commission to "ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy." Johnson asked Warren if he would be willing to head the commission. Warren refused but it was later revealled that Johnson blackmailed him into accepting the post. In a telephone conversation with Richard B. Russell Johnson claimed: " Warren told me he wouldn't do it under any circumstances... I called him and ordered him down here and told me no twice and I just pulled out what Hoover told me about a little incident in Mexico City... And he started crying and said, well I won't turn you down... I'll do whatever you say."

We all know how close Johnson and Hoover, along with his infamous Hoover files, were....

Now, this being so, and after practically revealing a conspiracy had indeed taken place, one which points to the new president Johnson as a culprit, Ruby went onto request a move to a Washington jail as he was currently incarcerated for the murder of Oswald at the time and was seeing out his sentence in Texas, which is where he no longer felt safe. He claimed that if this move occurred he would reveal everything he knew.

Bearing this in mind, Isn't it ever so slightly odd that the very man who was to block this prison move, one which would have revealed a conspiracy, was none other than Earl Warren himself - this being the man bribed by Johnson in taking over the commission, swaying it in anyway he see's fit, and Johnson being the man Ruby was to reveal all he knew about.

This says to me, Johnson is, at the very least, suspected of having a hand in ordering Warren to block this move to protect himself. Oh, and before I forget, Ruby was of course to die from cancer shortly after this...

Coincidence maybe?.. My conspiracy mind says not a chance.

reply to post by A boy in a dress

It stinks... and they've got and getting away with it.

You’re 100% right here.. they have gotten away with it. But it’s this very reason why It’s so frustrating to see people post specifically to say “We’ll never know the truth.” “Give it up already” and so on..

There’s been a few of those in this thread alone. But this won’t make the conspiracy go away. We can’t just shove it under the rug and forget about it, instead we should constantly highlight it and bring it up for discussion time and time again. We should constantly analyse and question.

We're here to find the truth after all, no matter what it takes.

These deaths aren't subtle and yet, they DO send a message to others
who may have pondered letting the 'norms' know what they know.

Agreed. They do send a message to people, and I recall quite a few individuals, Lee Bowers himself, allegedly not revealing everything they knew for fear of what the consequences would be. And it’s for this reason why further analysys is always needed.

As you said before, they actually got away with it - We know this as we, as a collective whole, are debating over it still.

Thanks for your post btw BIAD.

Originally posted by TheWhaler
I truly admire people who put in time to research this kind of stuff. But something as old as this do you really think any eye popping evidence will get anywhere? Id love it if it did, but realistically thinking here...

Well, to be fair, this occurred in 1963 which isn't a long time at all really...

And if I was to be really truthful with myself, I don't think uncovering the conspiracy once and for all really would change the world in anyway what so ever. Well, not in a huge way.. But it doesn't stop me looking still.

We was lied to and I want the truth. So I search it out. It's as simple as that.

reply to post by travisirius

I also read online that Roselli told Banonno's son that he did the head shot from the drain told when they were both in prison.
Now I only wonder if the umbrella man was signaling Roselli or Files because both claim the head Shot.

A drain pipe shot is possible, I just feel it's slightly implausible, but I'm planning on writing up an "In-depth" thread discussing It, as well as Roselli's claim, in a future thread. Look out for it, yeah.

In regards to your last point, I really do believe Umbrella man and/or DCM were signalers to potential shooters. Their actions are just too bizarre to be discounted completely, not forgetting the actions they took were quickly followed by the fatal head shot(s?).

It could be a coincidence of course but I'm not convinced it is, especially since we see DCM with what appears to be a radio. Something Eladio Del Valle allegedly ordered according to former CIA contract agent Robert D. Morrow's.

reply to post by doubleplusungood


I am glad to have read how on target you and a few others are with your ideas. Any one of the characters described could be mistaken. But when you think objectively about what people saw, people like Bowers officer Smith, as well as Holland and Price. There is just no way its a coincidence. They didn't all make a mistake with the things they saw. More was going on than was ever disclosed obviously. Oh and another thing, its about time people get talking more about Daltex building more! Its the missing link in the line of fire. Everyone talks about the grassy knoll ( for good reason) and the Texas School Book depository, but nobody talked about Daltex! It goes beyond the shell company set up there. The acoustical evidence studied by the House Select Committee on Assassinations was pretty conclusive that shots were likely fired from the direction of the Daltex building. It was enough to convince most everyone who studied the evidence. But! Beyond that lets not forget the characters rounded up from inside that building! Because shots were heard from that area, it was one of the first buildings to be on lockdown. From what I gather a few people were brought down to the station from that building but never charged with a crime. One of those people was Jim Braden who was tied to the mafia, and the other man doesnt even have a name! He was described as a man wearing a black leather jacket and having black gloves on. He was taken down to the police station yet there are no official records of the incident and obviously no charges against any such person............... As stated in an earlier reply, I don't wish to get too far off topic here, so if anyone chooses to discuss these other avenues further feel free to contact me. Otherwise again good job with this thread, its good to see people still have their eyes open. Its just a shame the trail is getting harder to follow over the years......

Hey doubleplusungood. Great to see you again.

I was recently looking at some info on the Daltex building. Did you know there was a broken window on the third floor of that building?

Yep. The Dal-Tex building is where my next JFK thread will be based around as well. I personally, and strongly, believe this is where the first shots came from.

Here's the Altgens photo, the building can be seen much clearer in this image:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ba0b9b8995d2.jpg[/atsimg]

Here's an image of Billy Lovelady, the man mistaken for Oswald as seen in the above image also:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/28612674e7df.jpg[/atsimg]

Anyway, this building is a much more plausible candidate for the first shots, or the first set of shots should I say. It fits by far better than the Texas School Book Depository building but Oswald, our patsy, just so happened to work there so this is where we're told the shots came from.

One person, who was arrested in Dalk-Tex building, is of particular interest also. This man was called Jim Braden as seen below:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a3f08c9ee55b.jpg[/atsimg].

I won't discuss it in too much detail though, instead I'll give you the name like I have done above. Reasoning for this is, and as I mentioned, I'm making a thread on this as we speak and I'd prefer to concentrate the discussion there when It's posted.

Feel free to discuss it further here though if you wish? The above posted posted about it also.

I think that is clear evidence that he had a massive wound in the back of his head, which fits in with the testimony of the doctors and contradicts the autopsy evidence and the Warren Comission

This is also potentially a shot from Braden himself (although I doubt he made this one).

Anyway, please also see this fascinating video from Bob Harris. You might find it particularly enlightening. (You actually linked me to his forum in your last post. )

Originally posted by Qwenn
I think that ATS should archive all of your threads about this into one special area, so that the information is grouped for those who would like to follow it on with further research.

lol, well, if they feel It's necessary to add them all in one place (particularly when I've finished my series of looking at the possible shooting positions and assassins), then they can feel free to do so.

I'm looking to set up a podcast one day with another member though, so I'll be discussing everything I've posted about instead of using a thread, maybe that would be better?

I have boxes of videos from the last 20 years or so, some of which contain documentaries and specials on this subject, I am sure that you have seen most/all of these, but when I get them all togeather I will PM you and if you want them, I will transfer them onto disc and send them to you, via a safe address which you can supply a a later date, if that is ok. Keep up the good work !

It's fine by me. The more research and information I can get my hands on, the better.

reply to post by Rising Against


jaysconspiracy has a point and if I may, I will show it in this short tale.
The Warren Commision says their no indication of a conspiracy and yet,
placing the the information -that are deemed facts into a row, it seems
utterly crazy to arrive at any conclusion -other than a conspiracy.
Here we go...

Let's pick a guy... a guy who doesn't like the country he lives in, someone
who struggles to 'fit in' and after being left in a orphanage as a kid and getting
into scrapes, one psychiatrist sees our guy living in a:

...vivid fantasy life, turning around the topics of omnipotence and power, through
which he tries to compensate for his present shortcomings and frustrations...

This guy... who struggled and had failed many times during his life has a chance...
one chance to gain the 'omnipotence and power' that he craved.
By blind-ding-dong-luck, he happens to get a job in a building where one of the most
important men on the planet was driving by without any protection and our chap took
that chance and slayed the VIP.

Our chap ain't dumb, so as not to be seen as sinister, he leaves via the front door,
he takes a bus and cab to his temporary lair and holds up... for around forty-five minutes.

Our guy decided to leave the safety of said-abode and wander down the street, where a
cop -who's patrol car was the only one unaccountable to the Station at that time, pulled up
and in a panic, our man shot him too.
Our guy may have pondered how he could've kept his nerve when taking on a loved-President,
a Secret Service organisation, a general public AND the comrades and friends of the cop
he had just shot, and yet pulled his Smith & Wesson at the first hint of trouble.

So, he's caught and held for killing the Patrolman and seemlingly unknowingly for killing
the President. The Law Officers lead him out to be taken away and there, for all the world
to see, our guy is killed by a man who's history is as checkered as our guy's.
The darn bad luck was that even though our guy reckoned he was innocent, nobody thought
to write anything down.

Then after all the connections that swarm in, all the shady characters who were in the
vicinity at the time and the fact that our guy could be connected to 'mobsters' and enigmatic
'G-men' it's decided that he worked alone and came up with this long-winded plan by himself.

It seems that at every turn, the characters in this tale are in some way connected to either
The Mafia, The CIA, The FBI, The Russians or Cuba... even the guy's wife is Russian!

Ah yes! -you say, he went to Russia and came back, and it may be that he had unknowingly
rubbed shoulders with some seedy folk of the underworld, but you can't blame the powers-that
-be?
True, the climate then -implied that he should be monitored due to his beliefs and behaviour.
True -he met with or came in contact with folk that moved in mysterious circles.
True, our guy wanted this kind of attention.

But, some people saw what happened and to them, the official story didn't seem right
and they said so.
One-by-one, people who witnessed, overheard, talked to the killers in the tale, or even theorised
about what happened, began to turn up dead and yet the same powers-that-be shake their
collective heads and say 'coincidence'

The public is told he worked alone and the Leader of The Free World is laid to rest without
his brain... an allegory in itself, I'm sure you'd agree.
Time moves on and things get left and forgotten...

Did I get everything?

Thanks for spending time putting this together, very interesting stuff. It is hard to believe that it was a lone gunman.

The umbrella man had IMO one simple task to do...if the shots from the rear (which Oswald was set up for) had missed and Kennedy was still alive when he passed by that spot then the umbrella was to signal ..TARGET NOT TAKEN OUT ..FIRE!..if Kennedy had escaped from Dealy Plaza after shots had been fired then they knew they would never get near to him again...i believe that the shooters from the front were there as a worst case option..the second guy with the shooter was just there to watch the umbrella while the marksman had his scope on the target..if the umbrella had stayed down then they would probably have just slipped away quietly without having fired a shot. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was at least one more team beyond the underpass if the "Grassy Knoll" team failed as well. Also..not many know that there was another young man in Dallas that day who opened the trunk of his car to find a rifle that he had never seen before...i can't recall his details but the suggestion was that he may have been Patsy No.2 in waiting

reply to post by A boy in a dress


Speaking of Oswald, and sorry if I linked this to you before, but I've discussed him in detail already you see. I have, what seems to be considered as some "out there" ideas on him but I tried to explain why I believe what I believe as best as I could in the below thread. You may enjoy the thread.

An Analysis Into the Mind of a Suspected Killer

Anyway, the story of Oswald is quite an interesting one. He sometimes claimed to be a commie, even at young life, something used against him to this very day, and yet from an early age he joins the military - a rather patriotic act, yes? It's also at around this time that Oswald, still at a young age, becomes Obsessed with a man who became his long time hero.

This man was an agent working for the Unites States of America, particularly one who for a great part of his life pretended to be a commie also, eventually infiltrating commie groups of interest. This man's name is Herbert Philbrick - someone very important to Oswald.

Anyway, long story short (see my thread for the long version), Oswald goes onto join the military, particularly the marines, he is stationed in Japan and informs his superiors of people of interest - this is what led him to quite possibly begin working with the U.S government, much like Philbrick, to obtain secrets for them.

It was this why he eventually went to Russia, in fact, please see this interesting story from an old Army Buddy of Oswalds:

Recently, a former Marine who had served with Oswald in Santa Ana, California, after Oswald had returned from Atsugi, began to talk about his discussions with him. His name is David Bucknell…

Bucknell told me that one day he and Oswald went to a tavern near the base to drink a few beers. Two women approached them. Later that day Oswald told Bucknell the incident with the women reminded him of a experience he had had at Atsugi. Oswald had been alone in a bar when an attractive Japanese woman approached him, he told Bucknell. She asked him some questions about his work on the base. That work was, of course, with the supersecret U-2 program. Oswald,predictably, reported that conversation to his superior officer, who then arranged for a meeting on the base between Oswald and a man dressed in civilian clothes.

The man, a “security” or “security-intelligence” operator, explained to Oswald that he could do his country a great service. Oswald was told that the woman was a KGB contact and that he would be given false information to pass on to her. Oswald agreed, and while still a teenager in the Marine Corps he became an intelligence operative. His liaison with the woman continued; he was given money to spend at the Queen Bee, and apparently encouraged by American intelligence to enter into a sexual relationship with the woman

Regarding Oswald’s tour of duty in Japan, Bucknell can only report what Oswald recounted to him. However, he was involved directly with Oswald in an intelligence effort when they both were at MACS-9. In1959 Oswald, Bucknell and others were ordered to report to the Criminal Investigation (CID) at the base. There a civilian began an effort aimed at recruiting those present for an intelligence operation against “Communists” in Cuba. Oswald was selected to make several additional trips to CID. Later he told Bucknell that the civilian who served as his contact or control at Atsugi had taken over the same job at Santa Ana. Still later, Oswald confided to Bucknell that he, Oswald was to be discharged from the Marine Corps very soon and that he would surface in the Soviet Union. Oswald told Bucknell that he was being sent there on assignment by American intelligence and that he would return to the United States in 1961 as a hero.

(Source)

I'll also note that he was set to come back in 1961 (he wrote to his mother telling her he wanted to come back then anyway - his mother also believed he was an agent) but as you're about to read, he was delayed.

He failed his original mission and it's this why I believe he committed suicide. He was actually allowed to stay here, although under observation in Minsk after this in fact as opposed to Moscow which was his original destination of choice.

This also distressed him greatly according to his friend in Moscow (his original tour guide whom he had informed he would like to stay as opposed to returning to America):

Rimma Shirakova states that he was deeply disappointed; Oswald hoped he would be allowed to study in University in Moscow. He wept bitterly, she said.

On January 4, 1960, Oswald was issued a Soviet internal passport, citing his citizenship as "stateless." It was valid for one year. He was given a one-time grant of 5000 old rubles ($500) to settle his hotel bill and purchase a train ticket for Minsk. There would also be a monthly subsidy of 70 new rubles ($70) from the Soviet Red Cross.

(Source)

Oswald then remained here for a short while before finding Marina - his eventual wife. In fact, they met and married with-in months. I suspect she became a new mission for Oswald - her father who she lived with at the time was working as the equivalent of the FBI after all. Anyway, It's just an idea of course.

They eventually came back to America with incredible ease in fact. They practically just picked up and left. Now, Isn't this odd? Oswald was a traitor to America at this point but then again, he was allowed back in, along with a new wife and child, incredibly easily.

Well, a possible explanation for this can be found here in this interview from an ex agent who claimed to have seen Oswalds De-friefing papers - ones showing he was working with the Unites States all along:

This is a video merely showing the interview half way through, It also mentions all of the above I discussed also:



In regards to the day of the assassination well, when some of the police officors, stormed the building immediately after the assassination, they even saw Oswald on the second floor "standing around calmly and drinking a coke". And what did one of the police Officers do at this time? Yup, he pointed a gun at Oswald (I believe their was others in this lunchroom at the time also).

Motorcycle officer Marrion L. Baker was the one who went in and is said to have shouted at him (Oswald) and then pointed his gun. One of the other men with him (I believe he was called Roy S. Truly - the TSBD Inspector and was Oswalds own boss who previously ran into Baker) noticed who It was and It was only this which had seemingly caused the men to bypass the obviously shaken Oswald to proceed forward up the building only to resurface around 5-10 minutes later.

It was then upon their return, Baker immediately claimed Oswald had disappeared and called it in. Quite suspicious behaviour towards Oswald It would seem as he was a complete unknown to Baker and didn't seem to be acting suspiciously himself at this time. Around 15 others who worked here are said to have been missing at this time also I believe.

Perhaps though Oswald was involved in some way or another still and he realized he couldn't stick around. But It seems as though he was certainly in no position to shoot anybody at anytime.

He was even spotted at 12:25 in this lunchroom second floor I believe. The assassination occurred at 12:30 on the 6th floor.

Anyway, as you rightly say, Oswald then got on a bus (odd for someone who just killed the president, IMO.), noticed it was moving slowly and then proceeded to hail a cab. The interviews with the cab and bus driver can be found here:

Bus driver:



Cab Driver:



Oswald eventually arrived at his rooming house where a women called Earlene Roberts lived. What's particularly interesting about her is she claimed that Oswald ignored her after walking in the house. In fact, I believe he just went to his room.

She then noticed a police car turn up outside, beep it's horns twice, and then speed off. Oswald left not long after this, again ignoring her. I heard she also claimed the number of this car fit the number that was on the car of none other than Officer Tippit at the time but I can't confirm this.

Anyway, Oswald then started his long journey to the cinema where he was arrested in. Tippit on the other hand was behaving oddly before Oswald made it there. He was just sitting in his police car looking worried according to witnesses. He then got out, ran to a local shop, barged ahead of everyone and asked to use the phone.

It's claimed no one answered, and he quickly left again, even more worried.

Then according to a man called James A. Anderson, Tippit came up behind him shortly after this incident, and physically caused him to stop by the roadside by cutting directly in front of his car.

He then ran out to the car, frantically looked inside, and once more looked extremely disappointed. Without saying a word to Anderson, he got back inside his own car and sped off. It was after all of this incredibly suspicious behavior that Tippit supposedly had his encounter with Oswald - or "a man" where he was shot dead.

Oswald was then found in the Cinema after running away from the scene. What's odd about his behavior here though is he didn't try to hide exactly. Witnesses in the cinema claim he was moving from seat to seat - by the end where the police officers came in, he had sat to almost everyone at one point.

It's possible he was supposed to meet someone here that day. Presumably after the assassination occurred and Oswald could be payed for playing whatever role he played. But again, that's just an idea..

He was then arrested, and of course history is made. Like I said before, please do see my thread as I went into all of this in much more detail.

I missed out quite a bit of information here also, particularly the Mafia connection, but I don't want to bore you with everything.

Either way, we know not everything is as it seems. Oswald most certainly was involved, but to what expect, we don't know..

Certainly no disrespect to Lee Bowers and maybe this will be
beneficial with your other thread, but...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bd007d1a2402.jpg[/atsimg]

Jim Braden

and this chap who was purported to be Oswald in Mexico.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/60de3622433d.jpg[/atsimg]

This mysterious man supposedly left a note to... a Mr. Hunt.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/10172879a5e7.gif[/atsimg]

Dear Mr. HUNT: I would like information concerding (sic) my position.
I am asking only for information. I am suggesting that we discuss the
matter fully before any steps are taken by me or anyone else.
Thank you LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

Could they be the same guy?
Hunt IS mentioned in both accounts.

Gotta say, I'm kinda crushin' on the OP. I'm 25, married and have a baby, but you make me want to rob the cradle, dude! How completely intelligent and just really well thought out. I'm amazed that you're so young and have so much knowledge and passion about this. And intrigued that you're British and care so much about some other country's president. I wish all ATS threads, or even just like half of them, at least, were this thought provoking.

The DCM and umbrella man have me so creeped out that I don't know if I can sleep. WHY is he holding an umbrella up? That goes beyond suspicious and quickly delves into morbid, surreal and creepy. I have no doubt in my mind that they were signaling the shooter(s). That and then to see them just sitting so casually while chaos ensues around them. I have the chills.

Also really intrigued by the look of shock on Bowers' face postmortem. I don't understand how his being drugged would explain that. I'm trying to understand why he'd look shocked to an odd extent at the time of his death.

reply to post by jackieisinlove


If you believe the statements made by the man ( Louis Witt ) who says he was the umbrella man. He says that it was a political statement. Its an obscure stretch in some peoples opinion, but he says he was basically heckling the president over his appeasment of the policies of then British Prime Minister Nevill Chamberlain. IT was said that Kennedy's father also was soft on Hitler during the war times...
So then the question becomes. Was it creepy signals given to shoot again, or some guy making a political statement?? To form an answer to that question, I would suggest trying to review his political "aggressiveness" before this event to kind of create a profile of the man. Lets ask ourselves a few questions such as ; was he an active voter? Was he affiliated with any political parties? Is there any history of him making "political activist" statements or actions prior to this incident? If he was a highly involved person who voted every year and rallied for his beliefs and candidates, then we'd have to say there is a high probability that he'd use that political platform to make his statement... But, on the other hand. If we find that he hardly ever voted and showed low or no prior passion for being a political activist, then I"d say his behavior that day would be labeled as highly suspicious considering the lack of rain that day!

reply to post by Rising Against

Watch this video......did the DRIVER do it??????

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Rising Against


RA has an admirer oooooooo and dammit i thought i was the only one

Originally posted by aquarianmind
reply to post by Rising Against

 

Watch this video......did the DRIVER do it??????

www.youtube.com...

No he did not. I've posted this already but It's obviously needed again...

Anyway, here is frame 312 - 0.6 seconds before the fatal shot struck. This image has been enhanced for clearer viewing:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bf4e71336af0.jpg[/atsimg]

I see no gun. I see the sun reflecting off of Kellermans head.

Here is a zoomed in shot of Greer's left hand also. Again, no gun is present:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3ab90b0e048.gif[/atsimg]

You'll notice you can just make out fingers and even his thumb. Not forgetting the glare is quite clearly consistent as well proving no gun is present.

I'm also working on my own video hopefully debunking this theory which I'll post on youtube sometime tomorrow.

reply to post by jaysconspiracy


Great points. Does anyone know any of the answers to the questions you raised?

Also, RisingAgainst, I'm admittedly no expert on any of this stuff. I watched a show on grassy knoll theories on History once and that's about the extent of it. However, after reading this stuff, I read a lot of your other posts and some other threads on here and saw that a lot of people are saying that Kennedy's first reaction... frame 229, clutching his chest and throat... was before the first shot was fired. I thought it was a reaction to the first shot, then found it odd that no one else really reacted until the second shot. JFK first clutches at his throat and seems to be having some sort of problem, then Jackie just holds his elbow/arm reassuringly and doesn't really seem concerned when he leans into her until the shot that hit his head. If he clutched at his throat because he was shot, you'd think it would've been more obvious before the next shot.

What is your opinion on people saying that he was first clutching at his throat and doubling over before he was shot? If this is the case, I'd think he was poisoned before being shot or something. It's especially weird in light of the car very obviously slowing down while all the shots are coming in. Sorry if I missed any of your posts on this.

Wow, awesome thread man. From now on you had better watch out for black cars and drugged coffee XD. Before I read this I was satisfied with the 1 shooter theory, but I've read about angry mobsters, angry LBJ, angry NWO etc. What's your theories on motives?