Ron Paul A Distaster For The USA. Hes Always Wrong. Why Is There So Much Love For Him ? Wrong Paul

The thread creator (OP?) is probably Ron Paul's opposing party. Trying to start a smear campaign!

Originally posted by gorgi

Even thought the treasury make the money, the Fed works with them on a lot of issues. If the states were going to have the same power then they would be making their own money as well.
We have the option to expand the money supply or contract it. It depends on the situation of the economy and what needs to be done. Right now we need expansionary monetary policy.

Expanding the money supply is a bad idea because it will create inflation. Sure a few jobs may spring up here and there and some people may go off unemployment, but in the long run it is detrimental.

What should have been done is stop allowing big corporations the right to go overseas to exploit cheap labor. In other words stop shipping job overseas. Why do we not hear about this anymore? We did about a decade ago. Did people give up?

Put high tariffs on all american brand merchandise produced overseas and see how fast the economy will get back on track. In the short term corporations may suffer losses but sooner or later everything will balance out. To be honest I could not care less for those that play the stock market. Investing a few grand and hopping to tripple your money within a year is incomprehensible greed and creates dependency. Dependency to work less and make more. This is the inheritant problem of capitalism!

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by gorgi

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by gorgi

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by gorgi

 

That's insane. Why would you need a separate currency to hold your own state reserve and set your own interest rates?

Look at EU nations. They all use the Euro but the central banks of each nation can set their own interest rates.

edit on 14-5-2011 by Cuervo because: EU Addition.

Because then each state would have different rates and that would be insane. How would states walter the money supply. If texas prints more what will stop new york from printing even more. By that rate post WW1 Germany would look good.
Set what reserve? Gold? Another joke.

Have you seen the Euro recently ? How many countries are going under ? The separate Euro countries cannot alter their money supply. The Euro might even collapse.

Why would the states be able to alter their money supply by printing money? Every problem you bring up about a state level are the same problems we have on a federal level. How does the US alter it? We print a crap load of money. You think that's a better solution?

Even thought the treasury make the money, the Fed works with them on a lot of issues. If the states were going to have the same power then they would be making their own money as well.
We have the option to expand the money supply or contract it. It depends on the situation of the economy and what needs to be done. Right now we need expansionary monetary pol;icy.

You say all of that like it's a good thing! You are assuming that states would do that. Do you think 50 separate entities would make the same tried and true mistake that the feds made? I can imagine one, maybe two states imitating federal policy. The rest know better and would be much more fiscally sound. If not, they'd at least be isolated and not screwing over the other 49 states.

In order for the states to have similar or the same power the Fed does, each state would have to have its on currency. The Euro example doesnt work because The countries that use the Euro do not have the same power the Fed does here, They have less.

The likely hood of the states controlling the dollar and it not sinking like a lead balloon are the same odds as Ron Paul being sane or correct.

Originally posted by Flying Sorcerer
reply to post by gorgi

 

... yes I think the Fed just sits there printing money all day...

ok now that the sarcasm button is off - NO, it was a generalisation. Of course I don't think that, no one here is as daft as you to be so narrow minded.

The Fed borrows money with nothing to back it up, they borrow money to foreign banks too.

Are you still defending your claims of the Federal Reserve being part of the government??

Yes I am still defending the Fed being part of the government. You all listen to Dr. Paul as if he knows anything about economics. This might come as a shock but he doesnt.

reply to post by gorgi


The federal reserve is not part of the federal branch of government.....

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by gorgi

Even thought the treasury make the money, the Fed works with them on a lot of issues. If the states were going to have the same power then they would be making their own money as well.
We have the option to expand the money supply or contract it. It depends on the situation of the economy and what needs to be done. Right now we need expansionary monetary policy.

Expanding the money supply is a bad idea because it will create inflation. Sure a few jobs may spring up here and there and some people may go off unemployment, but in the long run it is detrimental.

What should have been done is stop allowing big corporations the right to go overseas to exploit cheap labor. In other words stop shipping job overseas. Why do we not hear about this anymore? We did about a decade ago. Did people give up?

Put high tariffs on all american brand merchandise produced overseas and see how fast the economy will get back on track. In the short term corporations may suffer losses but sooner or later everything will balance out. To be honest I could not care less for those that play the stock market. Investing a few grand and hopping to tripple your money within a year is incomprehensible greed and creates dependency. Dependency to work less and make more. This is the inheritant problem of capitalism!

Expansionary monetary policy can have a slight effect on inflation. Its not anything to worry about. This kindn of policy is what allows the govt to help reverse the damage of a recession. The Fed can use contractionary policy in a boom period.

Slapping tariffs on goods will just result in a trade war. No one wins in a trade war. This will cause trade to decrease and there goes exports. Thats an excellent way to spur the economy.

Congressman Ron Paul
U.S. House of Representatives
July 16, 2002

“Mr. Speaker, I rise to introduce the Free Housing Market Enhancement Act. This legislation restores a free market in housing by repealing special privileges for housing-related government sponsored enterprises (GSEs). These entities are the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie), the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie), and the National Home Loan Bank Board (HLBB). According to the Congressional Budget Office, the housing-related GSEs received $13.6 billion worth of indirect federal subsidies in fiscal year 2000 alone.

One of the major government privileges granted these GSEs is a line of credit to the United States Treasury. According to some estimates, the line of credit may be worth over $2 billion. This explicit promise by the Treasury to bail out these GSEs in times of economic difficulty helps them attract investors who are willing to settle for lower yields than they would demand in the absence of the subsidy. Thus, the line of credit distorts the allocation of capital. More importantly, the line of credit is a promise on behalf of the government to engage in a massive unconstitutional and immoral income transfer from working Americans to holders of GSE debt.

The Free Housing Market Enhancement Act also repeals the explicit grant of legal authority given to the Federal Reserve to purchase the debt of housing-related GSEs. GSEs are the only institutions besides the United States Treasury granted explicit statutory authority to monetize their debt through the Federal Reserve. This provision gives the GSEs a source of liquidity unavailable to their competitors.

Ironically, by transferring the risk of a widespread mortgage default, the government increases the likelihood of a painful crash in the housing market. This is because the special privileges of Fannie, Freddie, and HLBB have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans.

However, despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government’s interference in the housing market, the government’s policies of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing. Like all artificially-created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing.

Perhaps the Federal Reserve can stave off the day of reckoning by purchasing GSE debt and pumping liquidity into the housing market, but this cannot hold off the inevitable drop in the housing market forever. In fact, postponing the necessary but painful market corrections will only deepen the inevitable fall. The more people invested in the market, the greater the effects across the economy when the bubble bursts.

No less an authority than Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has expressed concern that government subsidies provided to the GSEs make investors underestimate the risk of investing in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Mr. Speaker, it is time for Congress to act to remove taxpayer support from the housing GSEs before the bubble bursts and taxpayers are once again forced to bail out investors misled by foolish government interference in the market. I therefore hope my colleagues will stand up for American taxpayers and investors by cosponsoring the Free Housing Market Enhancement Act.”

The Bill He Was Speaking Of

Yep, Ron Paul is always wrong......

They see you trolling, they laughing....

reply to post by gorgi


You are simply wrong. The EU states have the power to set their own interests rates within their own central banks. Next, you'll say how they are failing... which is even more reason why we should be less centralized.

Originally posted by gorgi

Expansionary monetary policy can have a slight effect on inflation. Its not anything to worry about. This kindn of policy is what allows the govt to help reverse the damage of a recession. The Fed can use contractionary policy in a boom period.

Why would they use contractionary policy in a boom period?

That would only create a recession and no one really wants a recession except the big time traders on wall street. Yep buy cheap and sell expensive.

Slapping tariffs on goods will just result in a trade war. No one wins in a trade war. This will cause trade to decrease and there goes exports. Thats an excellent way to spur the economy.

Sorry I meant tariffs on AMERICAN BRAND products produced overseas(outside USA). I did NOT mean across the board tariffs on all imports. Indeed the second choice would start trade wars and be a disaster. The idea is discourage american companies from opening new manufacturing plants in asia, south america and africa to expolit cheap labor and transitionary eco-policies.

We need to keep jobs in america, corrrect?

The Marxist (AP) media will get behind and support 'flip-flop' Ron, making him another "darling of the press"...Like (RINO) McCain ..they know that he is the only one Obama can beat!
And after he is nominated...they will destroy him.

They then set up Huckabee (even though he knew he couldn't get elected)to block anyone else from moving up...I think they will be using Gingrich as the block person, this time...Neither of these two people can beat this ,lying, illegal, treasonous "Criminal-In-Chief!" Barry Hussein Soetoro Obama!

That's just how 'socialist brainwashed' the people in this country are at this point!

They are voting away their rights, money and freedom!

You young people that thinks it's cool (or whatever) to be a socialist liberal...Guess what..You better be ready to work till you drop..You will have No social security; No medicare, No inheritance ( Remember: Distribute the wealth--Democrats love the fruits of your labor) and I'm not going to feel sorry for you, because you can't say you haven't been warned and that the information was not available.

You have to take your blinder's off, first!...LOL!

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by gorgi

 

You are simply wrong. The EU states have the power to set their own interests rates within their own central banks. Next, you'll say how they are failing... which is even more reason why we should be less centralized.

Your wrong cause I live in an EU member "state" and we all take orders from the ECB in germany.

What you are describing was the case before the EU and ECB took shape and became enforceable. In other words each NATION had its own currency with its own private central bank. Not any longer, but I do yearn going back to national currencies. I think the whole idea was to make a strong currency to combat the dollar monopoly, but in effect its not workable due to the fact that each member nation has its own needs and wants that is not compatible with central policy.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by gorgi

 

You are simply wrong. The EU states have the power to set their own interests rates within their own central banks. Next, you'll say how they are failing... which is even more reason why we should be less centralized.

Your wrong cause I live in an EU member "state" and we all take orders from the ECB in germany.

What you are describing was the case before the EU and ECB took shape and became enforceable. In other words each NATION had its own currency with its own private central bank. Not any longer, but I do yearn going back to national currencies. I think the whole idea was to make a strong currency to combat the dollar monopoly, but in effect its not workable due to the fact that each member nation has its own needs and wants that is not compatible with central policy.

Wow, I'm getting outdated! I didn't realize how close you guys were getting to emulating the US's screwed up federal reserve. Sucks for you guys. I remember thinking the EU was a cool idea in the sense of ease-of-travelling through Europe but man... it's starting to back fire, huh?

Again... decentralization is the key. The EU and the US are both becoming too bloated, like the USSR.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by gorgi

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by gorgi

Originally posted by DAVID64
Just the fact that you think the Federal Reserve and Homeland Security are good ideas is enough for me to dismiss your thread as a waste of time. The Fed is one of the big reasons the economy is in the shape it's in. Before you continue spouting pro government propaganda, you should wake up to the damage they're doing.

Do you know why the Fed is important ? The Fed was created in response to major financial panics. There were many panics leading up to its creation in 1913.

Do you know what the Fed does ? The Fed controls the monetary policy of the US. It tries to maintain price stability and stable interest rates for the long term ect...

The Fed is not a private bank either, which I see people here have a misconception about. The Fed is an independent, but is still part of the government and has congressional oversight and its Board of governors are chosen by the president and confirmed by the senate.
What this means is that he Fed does not keep any profits it earns or sends it to Bernakes private account hidden in Switzerland either. When the Fed makes a profit it usually turns most of it to the Treasury.

Ok... seriously, give me a straight answer here. Name one positive thing the feds can do that we can not do on a state level.

The states cannot alter the money supply. The states cannot control the interest rates. There, I named two things. Do you want more ?

Why can't they? They can't alter their own money supply or their own interest rates? Why not?

So you want 50 seperate currencies just for the USA? If you don't understand how problematic this is, then I guess you may want each state to be a nation of its own, like the former soviet union disintegrated into 20 countries post soviet era.

Or like eta in bosque province of spain, or the split up of yugoslavia into tiny individual nations, etc.

I don't support world government but some people want to split up america into nation-states? Seems very irrational! There is a better alternative, we need to deincorporate the american government and the FED. Problem fixed!!!!!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


There's no need to have separate currencies to have separate central banks.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by gorgi

 

You are simply wrong. The EU states have the power to set their own interests rates within their own central banks. Next, you'll say how they are failing... which is even more reason why we should be less centralized.

Your wrong cause I live in an EU member "state" and we all take orders from the ECB in germany.

What you are describing was the case before the EU and ECB took shape and became enforceable. In other words each NATION had its own currency with its own private central bank. Not any longer, but I do yearn going back to national currencies. I think the whole idea was to make a strong currency to combat the dollar monopoly, but in effect its not workable due to the fact that each member nation has its own needs and wants that is not compatible with central policy.

Wow, I'm getting outdated! I didn't realize how close you guys were getting to emulating the US's screwed up federal reserve. Sucks for you guys. I remember thinking the EU was a cool idea in the sense of ease-of-travelling through Europe but man... it's starting to back fire, huh?

Again... decentralization is the key. The EU and the US are both becoming too bloated, like the USSR.

I am pretty sure the same people screwing europe are the same people screwing america. Alien-Illuminati agenda is the NWO(New World Order) with its plan for one world government dictatorship, digital world currency, verichip implants and a host of other horrible ideas.

Transnational corporations and state capitalism is the tool of the day...and always has been! For that reason I believe in free market socialism and sovereign nations with sovereign governments. No more puppet bs!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
For that reason I believe in free market socialism and sovereign nations with sovereign governments. No more puppet bs!

Alright, man. I see where you stand and it's pretty much on my feet.

I'm with you on what you said right there.

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

There's no need to have separate currencies to have separate central banks.

So you would have one central bank competing against another central bank for what purpose exactly?

To prevent corruption? I have five gasoline stations in my town but somehow the difference is less than 5 euro cents per brand/station.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
For that reason I believe in free market socialism and sovereign nations with sovereign governments. No more puppet bs!

Alright, man. I see where you stand and it's pretty much on my feet.

I'm with you on what you said right there.

I understand americans hate "socialism" and europeans hate "capitalism". Nothing new really! Its been like that for decades. Capitalism=freedom and Socialism=slavery...or something like that. Christians are better than muslims and jews are better than both.

Blah, blah. I used to hate socialism till I went to europe and figured out its not that bad, I used to love christianity till I figured out how many controversial books got banned and built an interest in ufos&aliens, I used to blame zionism for all the worlds ill till I built an interest in alien-illuminati conspiracy theory.

Nothing remains the same friend, at least not with me. Anyway thanks for the discussion, always a pleasure to debate people with different ideas and hopefully a middle ground can be reached.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
For that reason I believe in free market socialism and sovereign nations with sovereign governments. No more puppet bs!

Alright, man. I see where you stand and it's pretty much on my feet.

I'm with you on what you said right there.

I understand americans hate "socialism" and europeans hate "capitalism". Nothing new really! Its been like that for decades. Capitalism=freedom and Socialism=slavery...or something like that. Christians are better than muslims and jews are better than both.

Blah, blah. I used to hate socialism till I went to europe and figured out its not that bad, I used to love christianity till I figured out how many controversial books got banned and built an interest in ufos&aliens, I used to blame zionism for all the worlds ill till I built an interest in alien-illuminati conspiracy theory.

Nothing remains the same friend, at least not with me. Anyway thanks for the discussion, always a pleasure to debate people with different ideas and hopefully a middle ground can be reached.

Little do Americans know they have the worst of socialism and the worse of capitalism already. If we weren't too prideful to look at some model democracies, we would see that. Norway is a shining example of how I'd like to have my state ran.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by gorgi

Expansionary monetary policy can have a slight effect on inflation. Its not anything to worry about. This kindn of policy is what allows the govt to help reverse the damage of a recession. The Fed can use contractionary policy in a boom period.

Why would they use contractionary policy in a boom period?

That would only create a recession and no one really wants a recession except the big time traders on wall street. Yep buy cheap and sell expensive.

Slapping tariffs on goods will just result in a trade war. No one wins in a trade war. This will cause trade to decrease and there goes exports. Thats an excellent way to spur the economy.

Sorry I meant tariffs on AMERICAN BRAND products produced overseas(outside USA). I did NOT mean across the board tariffs on all imports. Indeed the second choice would start trade wars and be a disaster. The idea is discourage american companies from opening new manufacturing plants in asia, south america and africa to expolit cheap labor and transitionary eco-policies.

We need to keep jobs in america, corrrect?

The idea behind a contractionary monetary in a boom time is that inflation will rise. Reducing the money supply will lower the inflation rate.