Ron Paul A Distaster For The USA. Hes Always Wrong. Why Is There So Much Love For Him ? Wrong Paul

Originally posted by origamiandurbanism

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by origamiandurbanism

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by origamiandurbanism
I agree that certain parts of the government should be reduced. Spending should be reduced in certain areas (and perhaps raised in others, like on the infrastructure of the country). But no way do I support a flat tax.

It's policies like that which will make it impossible for me to ever vote for Paul. It's policies like that which will make this country worse. That just means more money for the wealthy (who are getting continually richer, regardless) to soak up.

What do you think "flat tax" does? Do you think it means everybody pays $X.00, no matter what their incomes are? You understand it just means a flat percentage for everybody, right?

I understand what it is.

A flat tax would shift even more of the tax burden on the middle and lower classes because the rich would then not be paying what proportionally they earn. Not only that but it would it still mean wages are being taxed twice - payroll and income. But unearned income would not be. Again, no thanks!

It's like a sales tax, which again, shifts more of the burden on the middle and lower classes.

I don't understand how people that say "Down with the Elites!" would be in support of this. It makes no sense.

edit on 11-5-2011 by origamiandurbanism because: (no reason given)

How would the rich not be paying proportionally what they earned?

And sales tax? Why doesn't that make sense? I'd prefer a complete sales-tax society. He who consumes more, pays more. That totally makes sense to me. Wouldn't that mean the people who buy luxury items would be taxed more? Often, in states with sales tax (like Washington), certain items don't even get taxed because they are necessary to survive.

I could be wrong but if everyone is paying the same percentage in taxes, that's not proportion, that's percent. Let's say everyone is getting taxed 15%. For someone that makes $20,000 a year, that 15% is going to effect them MUCH more than someone that makes $500,000 a year. It's not really based on what they proportionally make.

I believe the way the way the tax system is now is based more on what people proportionally make, thus the reason why the wealthy pay more in taxes (but not really that much more now a days!).

It's funny that you brought the Washington state sales tax because in a recent state election Bill Gates' father was a strong proponent of lowering the state sales tax and instituting a state income tax on the wealthy. The reason for it was because he believed the burden was unfairly on the middle and lower classes in the state due to the high sales tax. I agree.

The argument you laid out for a sales tax based system is one I've heard before but I just don't agree. I'm pretty sure that someone that is making $500,000 isn't going to be spending nearly the amount proportionally to what they earn vs. someone who makes $20,000 on taxed items. It's going to hit the person who makes way less much more.

I could not have said it better myself. His idea of a flat tax will hurt the average person, while it favors the rich. Its a very unfair tax. Progressive tax systems work better, thats why it is used most often.

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by origamiandurbanism

 

Then again, we are talking about on a federal level. A flat tax and a sales tax would happen in the scenario of drastically reduced federal government (replaced by respective state governments). I'd imagine virtually all of your taxes would be going to state at that point and not the feds. Each state would obviously have their own flavors for taxing, just as they do now.

On a state level, I do not agree with a flat tax. We are talking about a federal level, though. So, what you are saying isn't something I'd disagree with; we are just talking about two different entities doing the taxing.

What are you trying to say? There would be a flat tax for the federal government and then a sales tax on items bought. Thats really harsh on the lower classes.

Originally posted by Foodman
the dollar rallied again today. will ron paul ever be right on the dollar. its been over 3+ years hes been wrong. lmao @ 'ron paul' ALWAYS

watch as the cpi released this friday shows little inflation. which is good. a little inflation is good for economy. ron pauls deflation will ruin our country.

The dollar did rally and commodities have dropped. The margins were raised on gold, silver, oil ect... and thats why they have crashed. Its not completely the fault of the dollar falling as is claimed.

The inflation rate will be low again for the overall economy. Its good to have a healthy 2-4% inflation rate and deflation is very very very bad.

Originally posted by Foodman
There is no chance at all Iran will be attacked this year. ron paul will be wrong again. With oil this high, or even if oil was trading @ $80, a attack on Iran will make oil soar, and as a result destory our economy. All the trillions we have spend through bailouts/stimulus and all the qe would have been wasted. There is no chance the usa will allow a attack on iran.

An attack on Iran would send the price of oil so high that the US economy would crash. Ron Paul said we were going to on the very reliable alex jones show back in '08 and it never happened.
Ron Paul claims Iran attack

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

The american government is wayyyyyyy toooooooo biggg regardless how you look at it. I am socialist and say this! Billions get wasted that could be put to much better use taking care of american citizens in the form of state welfare.

RIGHT, Not to mention all the people who have been thrown in jail who never hurt anyone! The USA has the highest prison population.

My local town newspaper just ran a story on a girl who brought a 2" long knife to school to cut up her food. She was tossed in jail, suspended from school FOREVER and just had her court hearing. Yet in that same town court house the felon with four prior convections will get a two month suspended sentence for theft of my semi truck and trailer rig! Despite locating the guy THREE times for the cops it took them SIX years to final catch him


The US has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world, and incarcerates more of its youth than any other country. Sixty-five million Americans—or one in four adults—have a criminal record.

I guess it is a lot easier and safer to go after a girl in school.

It really is time to streamline the system and get rid of the bloat. Do we really need to toss prostitutes and guys who smoke pot in jail while we let some one who hurt someone by stealing their livelihood get a slap on the wrist???

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

The american government is wayyyyyyy toooooooo biggg regardless how you look at it. I am socialist and say this! Billions get wasted that could be put to much better use taking care of american citizens in the form of state welfare.

RIGHT, Not to mention all the people who have been thrown in jail who never hurt anyone! The USA has the highest prison population.

My local town newspaper just ran a story on a girl who brought a 2" long knife to school to cut up her food. She was tossed in jail, suspended from school FOREVER and just had her court hearing. Yet in that same town court house the felon with four prior convections will get a two month suspended sentence for theft of my semi truck and trailer rig! Despite locating the guy THREE times for the cops it took them SIX years to final catch him

The US has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world, and incarcerates more of its youth than any other country. Sixty-five million Americans—or one in four adults—have a criminal record.

I guess it is a lot easier and safer to go after a girl in school.

It really is time to streamline the system and get rid of the bloat. Do we really need to toss prostitutes and guys who smoke pot in jail while we let some one who hurt someone by stealing their livelihood get a slap on the wrist???

Thats an issue with the American justice system which I agree is very messed up. I have seen people go to jail for the smallest thing and people who commit serious comes get a slap on the wrist. It does need to be fixed. I do agree with you for once.

Originally posted by Foodman
the dollar rallied again today. will ron paul ever be right on the dollar. its been over 3+ years hes been wrong. lmao @ 'ron paul' ALWAYS

watch as the cpi released this friday shows little inflation. which is good. a little inflation is good for economy. ron pauls deflation will ruin our country.

We need deflation of the currency, not inflation! Inflation means the money is worth less because too much money is in circulation. The economy can grow regardless of the value of money, but when money is worth more it will grow faster because purchasing power in relation to wages would be high.

This stuff is really cut&dry and the fact that ivy league economists cannot understand what high school graduates can certainly proves there is a conspiracy to defraud the middle and lower classes by big industry, banking and the illuminati who wants to install a one world government.

Republicans create the problems and democrats whine about them.

Originally posted by crimvelvet

RIGHT, Not to mention all the people who have been thrown in jail who never hurt anyone! The USA has the highest prison population.

Thats what happens when prisons are privately run, for-profit businesses. Everyone makes a buck, including the cops and judges, while under a public incarceration system those people tend to stay out because they create too much paperwork for the state.

My local town newspaper just ran a story on a girl who brought a 2" long knife to school to cut up her food. She was tossed in jail, suspended from school FOREVER and just had her court hearing. Yet in that same town court house the felon with four prior convections will get a two month suspended sentence for theft of my semi truck and trailer rig! Despite locating the guy THREE times for the cops it took them SIX years to final catch him

Well the guy had four prior convictions, don't you think its fair he gets a lighter sentence this time? I mean really how many times can you FRAME the same person for DIFFERENT CRIMES?

It really is time to streamline the system and get rid of the bloat. Do we really need to toss prostitutes and guys who smoke pot in jail while we let some one who hurt someone by stealing their livelihood get a slap on the wrist???

I am pretty sure maximum security prisons are more expensive to build and operate, so it makes sense that the system would go after misdemeanors and look the other way when it comes to felonies. Or they could just dump everyone into a minimum security complex but unfortunately there would be too many experienced criminals raping the unexperienced, so again not fair!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Foodman
the dollar rallied again today. will ron paul ever be right on the dollar. its been over 3+ years hes been wrong. lmao @ 'ron paul' ALWAYS

watch as the cpi released this friday shows little inflation. which is good. a little inflation is good for economy. ron pauls deflation will ruin our country.

We need deflation of the currency, not inflation! Inflation means the money is worth less because too much money is in circulation. The economy can grow regardless of the value of money, but when money is worth more it will grow faster because purchasing power in relation to wages would be high.

This stuff is really cut&dry and the fact that ivy league economists cannot understand what high school graduates can certainly proves there is a conspiracy to defraud the middle and lower classes by big industry, banking and the illuminati who wants to install a one world government.

Republicans create the problems and democrats whine about them.

Deflation is very very bad. You obviously do not have any understanding of economics if you want deflation. You really have no idea what you are talking about. "cut and dray economics" in what world is deflation good ?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by crimvelvet

RIGHT, Not to mention all the people who have been thrown in jail who never hurt anyone! The USA has the highest prison population.

Thats what happens when prisons are privately run, for-profit businesses. Everyone makes a buck, including the cops and judges, while under a public incarceration system those people tend to stay out because they create too much paperwork for the state.

My local town newspaper just ran a story on a girl who brought a 2" long knife to school to cut up her food. She was tossed in jail, suspended from school FOREVER and just had her court hearing. Yet in that same town court house the felon with four prior convections will get a two month suspended sentence for theft of my semi truck and trailer rig! Despite locating the guy THREE times for the cops it took them SIX years to final catch him

Well the guy had four prior convictions, don't you think its fair he gets a lighter sentence this time? I mean really how many times can you FRAME the same person for DIFFERENT CRIMES?

It really is time to streamline the system and get rid of the bloat. Do we really need to toss prostitutes and guys who smoke pot in jail while we let some one who hurt someone by stealing their livelihood get a slap on the wrist???

I am pretty sure maximum security prisons are more expensive to build and operate, so it makes sense that the system would go after misdemeanors and look the other way when it comes to felonies. Or they could just dump everyone into a minimum security complex but unfortunately there would be too many experienced criminals raping the unexperienced, so again not fair!

If the state is going to put some one in prison and take away some ones liberty they should house the person. Private prisons are for profit. They do not care about the prisoners well being, only money. Thats where the problem is. No jobs are really made by having a private prison, instead of working for the state they then work for a for profit company. its just a transfer of money.

I'm convinced Ron Paul is the only candidate who is real enough to stand up for the real solutions. ABC news yesterday ran a segment on Republican candidates putting Newt Gingrich in the best light, and showed a clip of Republican debaters, and they picked the worst possible clip of Paul they could find. I knew it wasn't his best moment during the debate, but they definitely picked up on it and used it to make him look ridiculous. I was out in public watching on a flatscreen and laughed out loud because it was so obvous what they were doing. Unfortunately, the masses may not know this tactic.

Hey, I wonder whats going on with the idea of the Jesse Ventura-Ron Paul 'ticket' for 2012? I listened to Jesse on Alex Jones show recently (Jesse was in Mexico) and didn't hear any mention of an alternate candidate run. My vote is NOT going for anyone uder Democrat or Republican, but I don't want to sit home and not vote, too.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Yet republicans spend at least twice as much as democrats and most of it goes to the military-industrial complex.

Have you got something to back up that statement? Cause it is looking like personal opinion to me. Did you mean when a Republican is a sitting President or when Republicans control the House and the Senate? How about when the Democrats gained control over both houses? Did we get control over spending when the Democrats got control over both Houses and the Presidency? Did not a Democrat POTUS just get us into a THIRD war and increasing spending on the military? Who was in charge when all the entitlements that spend no matter who is in the WH were set up?

If you respond, please do not resort to Huffpo, DailyKos, or any Soros instrument of media.

fyi the democrats are spending over 2.5 trillion on just social security and medicare and thats not including medicaid

or any other government subsidy.

i am so sick of the military industrial complex bs.

give it a rest

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Ron Paul is The Man. He is on the side of the american people. As for wrecking the economy, that's what the presidents have done in the past, wrecked us. You got a job? Are you doing better than you were since Obama's Big Changes have come?? Has your house been foreclosed on? Do you have problems putting food on the table? Yes We Can, walk to the to the store because the price of gas is so high, we can't afford to drive!

Originally posted by 1truthseeker50
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

Ron Paul is The Man. He is on the side of the american people. As for wrecking the economy, that's what the presidents have done in the past, wrecked us. You got a job? Are you doing better than you were since Obama's Big Changes have come?? Has your house been foreclosed on? Do you have problems putting food on the table? Yes We Can, walk to the to the store because the price of gas is so high, we can't afford to drive!

Under el presidente Bush, when the economy was going under in 2008, I lost my job. I got another one in 2009. A better one. The gas prices were high before under president bush. Remember 2008 ?

There is no logical reason to believe that using Pauls insane policies that bad stuff will not happen. Less regulation will cause more problems. If we had more oversight, we may not be in this mess right now.

In case yall might have missed it. It is official now, time to win the country back!

Originally posted by TKDRL

In case yall might have missed it. It is official now, time to win the country back!

edit on Fri, 13 May 2011 14:24:43 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

I didnt miss it. I sad that people do not see though the guy and look at what he is saying and the consequences of his intentions.

Originally posted by gorgi

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Foodman
the dollar rallied again today. will ron paul ever be right on the dollar. its been over 3+ years hes been wrong. lmao @ 'ron paul' ALWAYS

watch as the cpi released this friday shows little inflation. which is good. a little inflation is good for economy. ron pauls deflation will ruin our country.

We need deflation of the currency, not inflation! Inflation means the money is worth less because too much money is in circulation. The economy can grow regardless of the value of money, but when money is worth more it will grow faster because purchasing power in relation to wages would be high.

This stuff is really cut&dry and the fact that ivy league economists cannot understand what high school graduates can certainly proves there is a conspiracy to defraud the middle and lower classes by big industry, banking and the illuminati who wants to install a one world government.

Republicans create the problems and democrats whine about them.

Deflation is very very bad. You obviously do not have any understanding of economics if you want deflation. You really have no idea what you are talking about. "cut and dray economics" in what world is deflation good ?

I have a feeling your not capable of thinking for yourself and your not even a good troll. I have met MANY TROLLS here on ats and usually they make a half-way descent arguement, you don't even try! Your one of those people that takes shorthand notes(like all good female secrataries do) and "good" in reading the teleprompter.

No, no, no. Ron Paul is a good conservative that wants to cut government spending and its intrusion into the lives of its subjects, not an angry fascist monster-alien who wants to internally destroy the United States, as your article suggests.

Peace,
SeraphNB