The Hypocritical Christian

reply to post by IAMIAM


appreciate it again and glad you brought that up because I wanted to add a few other points regarding the invisible voice though the bright like lightning angel/cherub? on the roof thing as a kid I find pretty significant also

notice before Jesus started publically witnessing-
there came a voice from heaven

not directed at any one just a typical response I can relate to-
And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
None of us can claim we are the root AND offspring of a relative 1,000 years prior to us in our family tree.

Actually, you cannot tell another what they can or cannot claim. You can only make claims for yourself.

I AM the root and offspring of David. Before Abraham was, I AM.

I claim it.

You can choose not to believe it. You can choose not to claim it yourself. But not matter how hard you try, you cannot tell another what they themselves can claim.

I AM the Alpha and the Omega. It is because you do not understand who you are, it is because you have not looked at what lies within you beyond your flesh that you cannot understand what is being said.

You think because you were born in a particular place, with a particular upbringing, that lead you to believe Jesus is God, that he is God and you are saved for believing this?

What if you were born in a different place, with a different upbringing, with a different name for that which is all, would you still believe Jesus was God? No. Would you be damned to eternal hell fire? No.

Go beyond that which you have experienced in this life. Empty your cup and fill it with the pure spirit, that spirit which gives life to all, then you will understand what it is to be light.

How can you claim to be against religion when you argue against any and everybody who does not accept your particular dogma? Don't you know you are only pushing your own religion over all others?

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
None of us can claim we are the root AND offspring of a relative 1,000 years prior to us in our family tree.

Actually, you cannot tell another what they can or cannot claim. You can only make claims for yourself.

I'm fairly certain none of us are 1,000+ years old, but I could be mistaken...

I AM the root and offspring of David. Before Abraham was, I AM.

No, you're not Jesus Christ, you're a self-deluded liar.

I claim it.

Good for you. Still doesn't make you Jesus Christ. I can claim a trillion dollars, doesn't make my bank account grow. You're neither the great I AM, nor the "Root and offspring of David", nor did you exist before Abraham lived as the Great I AM.

Jesus did.. you're not Jesus.

You can choose not to believe it. You can choose not to claim it yourself. But not matter how hard you try, you cannot tell another what they themselves can claim.

Sure I can, I've done it many times. I'll do it again right here:

You can't claim to have pre-existed Abraham as the Great I AM.

Jesus can, you can't. You're not Jesus.

I AM the Alpha and the Omega.

More blasphemy...

It is because you do not understand who you are, it is because you have not looked at what lies within you beyond your flesh that you cannot understand what is being said.

I understand who I AM NOT though, and that's Jesus Christ. There is only one Creator, one God.

You're not Him. You're a self-deluded charlatan masquerading as a deity on internet forums for the applause of the world.

You think because you were born in a particular place, with a particular upbringing, that lead you to believe Jesus is God, that he is God and you are saved for believing this?

Jesus is God, Jesus claimed to be God, Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God, and Jesus resurrected from the dead to prove He was God.

What if you were born in a different place, with a different upbringing, with a different name for that which is all, would you still believe Jesus was God? No. Would you be damned to eternal hell fire? No.

"I am the way the truth and the life, NO MAN comes to the Father except through me."

Yes, I would be damned if I didn't put my trust in Christ's redemptive work at the cross.

Go beyond that which you have experienced in this life. Empty your cup and fill it with the pure spirit, that spirit which gives life to all, then you will understand what it is to be light.

Yeah, yeah, more New Age tripe. Nothing "new" about it, it's the same lie the serpent told Eve in the garden re-packaged for the 20th Century... "You can be Gods"

How can you claim to be against religion when you argue against any and everybody who does not accept your particular dogma? Don't you know you are only pushing your own religion over all others?

Because "Religion" is man's attempts to justify Himself to God. Christianity isn't "Religion", it's about "Redemption" as a free gift of grace from God. It's God seeking out the lost to repair the relationship. "Religion" is man seeking out God and trying to justify himself to God.

"Redemption" and "Religion" are exact opposites.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Again, you focus on the flesh. I AM talking about the spirit. Jesus was talking about the spirit. What part of Man was made in the image of the creator? Is it the flesh we know as Arnold Schwarzenegger? Is it the flesh we now as George Bush? Is it the flesh we know as Jesus? Is it the flesh we know as Moses?

No! It is not the flesh at all! It is the spirit which animates the flesh. Stop worshipping the flesh.

What is the Blasphemy that you accuse me of? For being the spirit which animates me? For claiming to be within the father and having the father within me? For asking all to love one another? For asking all to love this creation?

I never claimed to be God, you said that.

I claimed to be the Son of God. Didn't Christ himself call those who believed him to be the Son of God children of God?

If I am the Child of God and I am a male manifestation of that spirit, wouldn't that make me the Son of God?

What is that only begotten Son of God but the Spirit of Man?

You call me a blasphemer for asking all to see that spirit in each other?

You claim to believe Jesus but you refuse to do what HE asked you to do, Love all, judge none.

How can YOU claim to believe Jesus when you refuse to do what he has done.

Are you willing to sacrifice your own flesh for others?

Are you willing to NOT judge others?

Are you willing to LOVE all as you wish to be loved?

If you believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, then do what he asked you to do.

Walk in his way loving all.

Speak his truth that we are ALL children of God.

Live his life of spirit, not of flesh.

Didn't he say to do these things?

Didn't he say to do them in HIS name?

If you love jesus do as jesus has done, and do it in his name.

Or do it not, for it yours to do what your own conscience dictates. Judge me if you must, but such judgement you will receive yourself, and by what measure you mete, so too will be measured against you.

Thus, it is YOU who are the blasphemer. Not by my judgement, but by your own.

Judge not, love all, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Wow, way to miss 95% of what I said. Anyways..

No! It is not the flesh at all! It is the spirit which animates the flesh. Stop worshipping the flesh.

I worship Jesus Christ. He arose BODILY from the grave, the TOMB WAS EMPTY. He is flesh and bone sitting on the throne in Heaven as we speak. His "flesh" has holes in the hands and feet with a spear wound in the side.

Jesus rose with a resurrected, glorified body. You may call that "flesh", whatever, I call Him Jesus. He's alive today.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Wow, way to miss 95% of what I said. Anyways..

No! It is not the flesh at all! It is the spirit which animates the flesh. Stop worshipping the flesh.

I worship Jesus Christ. He arose BODILY from the grave, the TOMB WAS EMPTY. He is flesh and bone sitting on the throne in Heaven as we speak. His "flesh" has holes in the hands and feet with a spear wound in the side.

Jesus rose with a resurrected, glorified body. You may call that "flesh", whatever, I call Him Jesus. He's alive today.

Jesus is alive today?
I agree with that.

Sitting on a throne in heaven?
I agree with that also.

So answer me this, where is Heaven?

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

There is no irony in what follows that passage...

22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. 26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Final Warning

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

I AM the root of the offspring of David...

No, Jesus didn't say that, He said "I am the root AND offspring of David."

Big difference, or in other words "Iam the root of David, and I am the offspring of David."

None of us can claim we are the root AND offspring of a relative 1,000 years prior to us in our family tree.

Isn't that what i said... Hes a decendant of David, and the root of all humanity...

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Alright so first you say...

No, it's the truth. I have no righteousness other than what's been imputed by Christ. He's the hero of the story, not me.


"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


Romans 3:10"


I agree

but then a page later....

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:but the righteous into life eternal.

So that means Not one person is righteous, yet somehow the righteous will have eternal life...

Which is it....you can't have both........either no one is righteous or there are some that are...

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Jesus is God, Jesus claimed to be God

would you mind showing me where he said this...

i haven't found it so i'd like to see how you managed to...

reply to post by Akragon


No one is righteous on their own. The only righteousness the redeemed have is that which is imputed by Christ. It's His imputed righteousness.

No one in heaven has room to boast. Chapters 1-6 of Romans will help you out if you need further clarification.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Jesus is God, Jesus claimed to be God

would you mind showing me where he said this...

i haven't found it so i'd like to see how you managed to...

Here

Jesus said He came down from Heaven:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." John 6:38

Jesus claims to have pre-existed the Earth, the universe, the angels, was eternal and shared in the Father's glory:

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." John 17:5

reply to post by IAMIAM

So answer me this, where is Heaven?

There are three different "heavens" in the Hebrew, they are all translated "Heaven" in English. English is a lazy language, what can ya do right?? I'll assume you mean the third heaven, where the throne of God is located.
It's outside the known universe, my conjecture is it's a hyper-dimensional realm.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Im sorry but that doesn't say I am God....nor do any of these

I am the light of the world” (John 8:12)
•“I am the way, the truth and the life” (John 14:6)
•“I am the only way to the Father” (John 14:6)
•“I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25)
•“I am the Good Shepherd” (John 10:11)
•“I am the door” (John 10:9)
•“I am the living bread” (John 6:51)
•“I am the true vine” (John 15:1)
•“I am the Alpha and Omega” Rev.1:7,8)


so again, when did he say I AM GOD....?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

So answer me this, where is Heaven?

There are three different "heavens" in the Hebrew, they are all translated "Heaven" in English. English is a lazy language, what can ya do right?? I'll assume you mean the third heaven, where the throne of God is located.
It's outside the known universe, my conjecture is it's a hyper-dimensional realm.

That's an interesting point of view my friend. I look at it a bit differently.

There is the Heaven which is the deepest part of the mind from which all thought originates.

There is the Heaven that some hope for, a goal to be obtained.

Then there is the Heaven we are in right now, this existence. It is laid out before us and we play in it's infinite wonders.

All three are the same Heaven. The only divider between the three Heavens is our own judgement.

But, that is just my view of Heaven.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Akragon


Dude, are you that blind? Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the EARTH..." Jesus asks the Father to give Him the "glory He shared with the Father before the world began. If Jesus pre-existed all creation and was eternally existent with the Father before the universe or world were created what would that make Him? He told the Pharisees He existed long before Abraham did, and took the forbidden to be spoken name that God gives to Moses from the burning bush "I AM".

Jesus was killed for blasphemy, the high priest charged Him with blasphemy, the Pharisees tried to stone Him for blasphemy, and when He was charged with blasphemy in front of Pilate, he asked Jesus if this were true. It also says Pilate was scared at this point, Hellenistic Greek culture has scores of demi-gods.

Jesus tells satan that people are to "worship the Lord thy God ONLY", yet allows Himself to be worshipped by the apostles, followers, men, women. He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. Multitudes of angels worship Jesus at His birth when He is lying in the manger! Isaiah and John both have a vision of Jesus sitting on His throne in heaven with angels worshiping Him!

His entire ministry was a demonstration that He was God in the flesh. He walked on water, gave the blind sight. Raised several people from the dead. Stopped terrible storms instantly while on the sea of Galilee. Instantly cures people with cerebral palsy. Twice fed crowds of thousands with a couple fish and loaves of bread.
And resurrected HIMSELF from the dead.

Jesus made the claim numerous times of being God. The Jews had no trouble understanding that when they killed Him for blasphemy. He was either crazy, a liar, or LORD.


Before Jesus's death who was in heaven besides God and the angels???

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." John 6:38

I'll say it again:

Jesus is God, Jesus claimed to be God, Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God, and Jesus resurrected from the dead to prove He was God.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Sure, in a figurative sense heaven can be anywhere. People use it as a figure of speech quite often. However, when spoken of as the realm and throne where God and the dead redeemed go it's hyper-dimensional. Jesus says it's not on the Earth in John 8:23:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

He says He is not from this world, He came from heaven.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


thanks for explaining everything we already know, but you still didn't answer the question.

You're trying to explain something that isn't there... NOT once, did jesus ever claim to be God. Others claimed he was God, yes....very similar to what you're trying to do....yet the man never once made that claim. Look for it all you want, try to explain it to others but unfortunatly you are the blind one if you believe this.

Lets see what he actually said though...

~ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Speaking of two entities........

~ All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him...

Again, two....

~ But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

and again...

~ And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Is NOT MINE to give.... but its prepared by who? Not Jesus....

~ And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven

Jesus was a man was he not? Call him God and you're doing exactly what he told you not to...

~ But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Did he say my kingdom? nope...

~ Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

~ And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Asking God to let his sentence pass over him.... If he was God he wouldn't have to ask...


So...theres what he actually said. I've given you seven passages that tells you he is not God... and these are only from one Book...i could have posted 100 quotes telling you hes not God..

Yet somehow you can't give me one sentence... I know why you can't find it. Its because he never once made that claim, but of course i'll give you the chance as always...

Show me where he claimed he was God...

I think these make a decent compilation in addressing the issue

She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

and the Word was God..And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us

*For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life

*Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

they said we have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God

*All I have is yours, and all you have is mine.

*I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.”

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it

Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.

"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

*Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name

“Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people.

This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach.

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us

consider others better than yourselves.

Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever.

www.biblegateway.com...

reply to post by Rustami


Perhaps a decent compelation, but it doesn't show your side of the issue...

Was Jesus God? If you believe he was, show me where he makes this claim...

If you believe he wasn't, i have no issue...

reply to post by Akragon


see *'s above, they seem clear enough and I've already addressed that plus would'nt the reasoning behind any other way, be contradicting?- like it says "specially to those who believe" "one new man out of two""first Adam, last Adam""new creation""one blood""born again""made of a woman""the least""invisible""spiritual body""spiritual man""God is Spirit"?

these ain't too shabby either-
Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.