Hamas' Powerful New Weapon Alters Strategic Calculations Along the Gaza Strip

Originally posted by meathed
Just because the speak in a condesending tone and you correct me for one spelling error, and then you speak down on me for my age just proves that you are a little childish in your actions and ways. And just because your older does make you wise mate.
I am far from one dimensional thanks. At least i dont hide my true self through false intentions like you do mate.
Hypocryte. ( old school spelling mate)
And when you can handle being wrong you might just grow up a little.

Peace

As much as I hate derailing a thread for a petty argument, I will respond to this and hopefully the rest will simply bypass it as the noise it is.

I had no clue about your age, it just seemed your views were young and nieve. you proved my assumption right...consider that for a moment..perhaps you are not seeing things simply based on a not fully developed viewpoint of human nature.

Each human has a balance in them..this is the oldest understanding in spiritualism..yin/yang (that asian symbol...black and white spinning around...nevermind)
To deny an entire side of yourself is a folly. instead, you must learn when it is approprate to express it, and when to nurture the other side.

Age (youth) is not some sort of curse...enjoy it, your viewpoint is simple now. black and white. never will things be as clear again as when your young. Later you find out how little you know of everything and suddenly what was once a simple viewpoint so long as you can label things simply becomes very complex. Seeing a crusade under the guise of diplomacy and politics. Seeing propaganda to fuel other religious wars under the guise of land, etc...people are today, in 2011, killing each other still over invisible friends and prophecy that people hundreds upon hundreds of years ago spoke of to some rather gullible sheep herders.

Take each moment to its fullest. If there is time to try and bring peace and love in the world, embrace it and push it forward with as much energy and purity as possible, and when there must be retaliation to stop this sewage of belief, then I say find the meanest weapon possible and use them with conviction. Until entire segments of the population stops with this endless destruction of humanity based on ancient stories, then there will never be harmony.

My hope is the elimination of religion...my positive thinking, if I could wish something away on earth, would not be our nukes, or our money system, it would be the true evil of this world...that being religious institutions. The rest would fall in line shortly after.

Meh, long paragraphs, judge me how you see yourself when you have more than one viewpoint..that makes it easier.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Read it again if your truely this confused

BTW, it's you're not your and it's truly not truely ..

Seen as how you are big on grammar I thought I'd just point that out for you..

Cheers

reply to post by SaturnFX

My hope is the elimination of religion...my positive thinking, if I could wish something away on earth, would not be our nukes, or our money system, it would be the true evil of this world...that being religious institutions. The rest would fall in line shortly after.

Religion is NOT the problem..
It's the way it is used by some as an excuse and others as a control..
If religion wasn't there these people would find another excuse IMO..

Originally posted by baconvein
reply to post by infolurker

 

You would be surprised what people will do when pushed to the very edge, where as I don't agree with it, I understand that If Israel really cared they could maybe stop destroying peoples homes and repressing a whole nation, turning human beings into monsters doing the only thing they can to get the worlds attention.

You know, people can get pushed to the edge by somebody else aiming for and destroying school buses.

Originally posted by redstripe1229
I think it's a false flag. I think it's more believable that Israel either provided the weapons under the guise of some other organization providing arms to Hamas or Israel attacked the bus themselves. This way they can further justify bombing and settling the occupied territories. The timing seems too convenient.

Israel left Gaza. It doesn't want to occupy it in the slightest.

West Bank is another issue, there are right wing colonialists who do want to take it.

Originally posted by backinblack
That makes Israel the aggressor and justifies action from Palestinians..

they...targetted....children.

if you steal my car, I may punch you in the nose if given the chance...but I promise I won't shoot your child.

if you shoot at me, I won't shoot your child

if you shoot at my child...well, all bets are off, but it would have to be intentionally shooting verses shooting at me and accidently clipped her.

You honestly believe this has anything to do with disputed areas on the border? its not.
the more the palestinians do not use violence, the more sympathy the entire world has for them...the more israel becomes the monster when they start developing.
when they use violence, all of that good will and sympathetic feelings which does indeed turn into diplomatic action to hault israel comes to a hault.

It would be a disaster if borders were respected for fanatical religious organizations...it goes against...-against- the fatwah. there will be NO peace, NO acceptance if israel at all...that is the fatwah that is still active

they cannot have peace, they cannot have respectable negotiated borders.

There are many whom do want peace...and they are constantly usurped by those religious twats that are following the 67 arab accord to destroy israel and never allow for peace.

its a jihad man, and not in some metaphoric sense, but in the people dying on the streets version.

until palestinians deal with not just their own local fanatics, but also the meddlings of other states into their affairs, then they are going to be perpetually in the front lines of this battle, willing or not.

And until the arab nations all come together, all the leaders, all of the top imams and clerics, remove the fatwah, embrace unanimously the state of israel, define the borders, and with no uncertain terms demand all of islam respects and even enforces the jewish state of israel for all time, then there will be no change.

Originally posted by backinblack
Religion is NOT the problem..
It's the way it is used by some as an excuse and others as a control..
If religion wasn't there these people would find another excuse IMO..

To the guy wearing a suicide belt, it is the problem/reason
To the person ready to shoot the heratic brown man, it is the problem/reason.

To the ruler of a nation, it is the tool..remove the tool, and that ruler is just a fat man in funny attire.

The ruling class use religion as a tool to have the people respond how they want them to. the middle east dictators use it, along with enforcing a medieval mindset on their citizens, to gain whatever they want as the outcome..be it resource control, or simply domination over the rest of the middle east...but, again...if the most powerful ruler lacked the tool to control the population, they would quickly see their power evaporate into nothing

There is no reason as powerful to a middle eastern man with nothing that compares to candy in heaven if you do as god tells you to and blow up a nightclub...there is no reasoning with that mentality.

reply to post by SaturnFX

they...targetted....children.

There is ZERO proof of that...

But you go on about what you would do if someone wronged you yet fail to recognize the obvious..
That is that Israel has oppressed the Palestinians for decades..
They have taken over 50% of their land and treated Palestine like a prison..
And don't go blaming Hamas..
This has been going on well before Hamas came into power..

The figures don't lie..
NONE of them leave any doubt that Israel is the aggressor..

reply to post by SaturnFX

To the guy wearing a suicide belt, it is the problem/reason
To the person ready to shoot the heratic brown man, it is the problem/reason.
To the ruler of a nation, it is the tool..remove the tool, and that ruler is just a fat man in funny attire.
The ruling class use religion as a tool to have the people respond how they want them to. the middle east dictators use it, along with enforcing a medieval mindset on their citizens, to gain whatever they want as the outcome..be it resource control, or simply domination over the rest of the middle east...but, again...if the most powerful ruler lacked the tool to control the population, they would quickly see their power evaporate into nothing
There is no reason as powerful to a middle eastern man with nothing that compares to candy in heaven if you do as god tells you to and blow up a nightclub...there is no reasoning with that mentality.

And what of American leaders?
They don't use religion..
They use this "fake" war on terror to control their citizens and con them into believing their loss of freedom and control of every aspect of their lives is for their own good..
It's also the excuse used to invade countless countries,killing thousands of innocent civilians..
No, the Americans don't use suicide bombers because they don't have to..
They have precision bombs with DU heads..
So see, without religion it's just a case of our whackjob leaders finding another excuse..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

they...targetted....children.

There is ZERO proof of that...

But you go on about what you would do if someone wronged you yet fail to recognize the obvious..
That is that Israel has oppressed the Palestinians for decades..
They have taken over 50% of their land and treated Palestine like a prison..
And don't go blaming Hamas..
This has been going on well before Hamas came into power..

The figures don't lie..
NONE of them leave any doubt that Israel is the aggressor..

edit on 13-4-2011 by backinblack because: (no reason given)

I don't want to give you a lecture on history...but just a quick snippit is needed

the 1973 Arab-Israeli War and the Fourth Arab-Israeli War, was fought from October 6 to 25, 1973, between Israel and a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria. The war began when the coalition launched a joint surprise attack on Israel on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in Judaism, which coincided with the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Egyptian and Syrian forces crossed ceasefire lines to enter the Israeli-held Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights respectively, which had been captured and occupied since the 1967 Six-Day War. The conflict led to a near-confrontation between the two nuclear superpowers, the United States and the Soviet Union,[25] both of whom initiated massive resupply efforts to their allies during the war.

Long story short
UN sections off a relatively uninhabited place for jews to call home after WW2.
Arabs see this bit of sand and realize the koran didn't mention the jews would be coming back...they get together
in 67, the arab coalition gets together and decided no..they will not accept jews in their backyard (few skirmishes before, nothing incredibly bad)
in 73, a bunch of arab nations attack the jews
they almost win due to the suprise nature.
Jews fight back, give all their surrounding neighbors a pounding...they are poised to all but take over the middle east, from egypt up to syria...the US and USSR are using this as a proxy war for the lulz but get a bit nervous when it gets to a point where each side starts eyeing the nuke button...so they call it off

Israel gives back -most- of the land
the arabs are happy with that
the arabs are not happy with that and want all land completely to be given back
the arabs are wanting to sneak attack israel and push them into the sea..

history repeating itself. What is needed is for those original arab states to get together and -call off- the bloody war, and to accept israel as legitiment straight across the board..

this is a religious fight for those on the ground, and for the ones in power...well, I have yet to understand what the point is beyond domination over the big power in the area that threatens their own desires for ultimate middle eastern power.

At least the jews have united the arabs...breaks up their thousand + year old endless warring with neighbors to become the supreme voice of the land.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

To the guy wearing a suicide belt, it is the problem/reason
To the person ready to shoot the heratic brown man, it is the problem/reason.
To the ruler of a nation, it is the tool..remove the tool, and that ruler is just a fat man in funny attire.
The ruling class use religion as a tool to have the people respond how they want them to. the middle east dictators use it, along with enforcing a medieval mindset on their citizens, to gain whatever they want as the outcome..be it resource control, or simply domination over the rest of the middle east...but, again...if the most powerful ruler lacked the tool to control the population, they would quickly see their power evaporate into nothing
There is no reason as powerful to a middle eastern man with nothing that compares to candy in heaven if you do as god tells you to and blow up a nightclub...there is no reasoning with that mentality.

And what of American leaders?
They don't use religion..
They use this "fake" war on terror to control their citizens and con them into believing their loss of freedom and control of every aspect of their lives is for their own good..
It's also the excuse used to invade countless countries,killing thousands of innocent civilians..
No, the Americans don't use suicide bombers because they don't have to..
They have precision bombs with DU heads..
So see, without religion it's just a case of our whackjob leaders finding another excuse..

edit on 13-4-2011 by backinblack because: (no reason given)

Hey, don't get me wrong, I stated a few posts earlier, at least I give credit to islam for using the sword and being up front about their jihad...the crusaders have switched to the pen (war on terror, legislation against religious and cultural aspects, etc).

The popes crusades went nowhere...just changed its suit to look like something else, but its still going on with different weapons being used in christendom.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by backinblack
That makes Israel the aggressor and justifies action from Palestinians..

they...targetted....children.
if you shoot at my child...well, all bets are off,

Well as i see it that is where we are.
The Palestenians are zero for 10 and every time there is an "attack" on israelis, israel replies by blowing up women and children.
But you are right, religion sucks.
It is nice to have something better to believe in but not at the cost of fanaticism.

reply to post by SaturnFX

I don't want to give you a lecture on history...but just a quick snippit is needed

There's been a few wars in the area..
With Israel starting or inciting the their fair share.

But that doesn't affect the agreed borders which Israel refuses to stick to..

Originally posted by mayabong
How dare they have real weapons to actually fight back, this is a travesty!

You call blowing up a school bus fighting back?

Sickening. Hamas have no scrupples at all and this is just another example.

Specifically targetting school children? Wtf?

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I don't want to give you a lecture on history...but just a quick snippit is needed

There's been a few wars in the area..
With Israel starting or inciting the their fair share.

But that doesn't affect the agreed borders which Israel refuses to stick to..

They never flipping agree...thats the issue

how many presidents in america have brought the two sides together and broke out a map, saying...ok, name it and agree

and how often has moron decided against it no matter what.

its because its not as easy as simply deciding where the property line starts and ends and arafat knew that...there is no walls acceptable, no border acceptable, because the 67 accord stated very crystal clearly nowhere...none..period. the proper wall would be one right in the center of the medeterranian and the jews can live on a boat.

if it was simply a land border deal, then this would have been over in 1988 and everyone simply gone on with life.

Its not in the hands of any one leader...Joe Arab can totally agree to a perfect line across and make a border tomorrow with Jack Jewish and shake hands, all that
and then the following day, some organization will be launching nades and whatnot into the new area and demanding the jews go away...along with potentially killing joe arab for agreeing to something against the arab coalition.

this will not be resolved by any involvement by the US, or China, or anywhere except for the original warfare arab states and offical voices if islam (as offical as they get) defining the borders and all sides agreeing...until then, there is no borders...only the original call

and they will war for a thousand years until such time comes.


Now, this list is a oldie but goodie nonetheless to get things in perspective
keep in mind, this is not how the average muslim thinks, but it is how muslim rulers rule and see israel

1. Israel became a state circa 1030 B.C., more than two millennia before Islam.

2. Arabs from Israel first began to be called "Palestinians" in 1967 by Yasser Arafat and other Arab leaders, two decades after modern Israeli statehood.

3. After conquering the land in about 1250 B.C., Jews ruled it for more than 1,300 years and have maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

4. For over 3,000 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

5. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible, but not once is it mentioned in the Qur'an.

6. King David founded Jerusalem; Mohammed never set foot in it.

7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

8. In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Jewish presence—some 70% of them fled without ever being ordered by Israel to leave, most of those without ever having seen an Israeli soldier.

9. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

10. Some 650,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while about 850,000 Jews were forced to leave Muslim countries.

11. In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees from Palestine were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War II, they are the only group to have never integrated with their coreligionists. Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey.

12. There are 22 Arab countries (with 800 times the land mass of Israel), not counting the Palestinian territories. There is only one Jewish state. Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

13. The Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel. Israel has agreed under several proposals to cede most of the West Bank and all of Gaza to the Palestinian Authority, and even supported the arming of its police force after the Oslo Accords in 1993.

14. During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths and maintained in good order at Israel’s expense.

15. Out of 175 United Nations Security Council resolutions up to 1990, 97 were against Israel; out of 690 General Assembly resolutions, 429 were against Israel;

16. The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the Temple Mount and Western Wall (Kotel).

Again, not about hating the average muslim...the typical muslim is actually friendly, honorable, and peaceful whom will face to face tell you of their disgust at their leaders and how their religion is weilded as a disgusting weapon. I lived in Egypt for awhile and got to know 1 kid (I say kid...he was 24 at the time) whom was like anyone else...the ruling class arabs are on a different level than the commoner
and keep in mind a couple points
1) Arab youth must join the military
2) you do not go against military orders...ever.

That list of 16 points is the mindset of the middle east leadership..it is bent on one thing, the humiliation and destruction of israel, and the propaganda war that -many- are falling for is one of their swords they use (both sides use propaganda mind you, so find your truth in the facts and actions verses the words day to day)

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I don't want to give you a lecture on history...but just a quick snippit is needed

There's been a few wars in the area..
With Israel starting or inciting the their fair share.

But that doesn't affect the agreed borders which Israel refuses to stick to..

If by insiting, you mean existing...then sure, but technically speaking, and by technical, I mean anything not totally spun on its ear...they started none, they did finish them all though.

And today they are arguably inciting a war...because they still exist.

reply to post by backinblack

There is ZERO proof of that... But you go on about what you would do if someone wronged you yet fail to recognize the obvious..

In my opinion I believe we are subject to emotional stories like these to solicit a specific response and proper emotional affiliation with their desired target. We hear of a school bus being fired upon by (choose your entity) and we immediately imagine our own children being put in harms way by that very same entity. Then we conjur the imagery of what we would do to that entity if they ever endangered our children like that. They have successfully implanted in you an image with an entity and that image brings about the emotions that they desire in you.

The first information that we get creates massive distortion with any kind of accurate ideas that we may have initially and even after more substantial and believable information keeps pouring in the initial damage has already been done because we consumed it and reacted to it. We then begin to unknowingly create more confidence in our initial stimulus and thereby allow this initial stimulus to distort all present information. Our initial interpretation is maintained at all costs.

Tons of information can be presented to clearly show the truth of the matter but the information needed to make a first impression is far far less. The interpretations and affiliations that they required you to have are branded in and will endure. So be careful of journalism that illicits an emotional response like this one.

Fight back? Against a School BUS!

So, laser guided .... I assume they were AIMING for the school bus. What Pieces of Shlt they are.

And you wonder why there is such little sympathy for these POS animals.

Was basically going to give the same answer, but then we'll hear "Well, the Israelis bulldozed the houses, etc."

Simple fact is, NEITHER side can claim the high ground here. Both sides need to compromise and both have done horrific attacks on civilians. Historically, I've seen Israel offer up quite a bit for the Palestinians to then just storm from the table. Hamas and the PLO want the Israelis wiped out, and they want Jerusalem to be the capital of a new Palestinian state. That just isn't going to happen, but they will never wake up to that reality...and refuse to accept nothing less. You can't bargain or deal with that kind of stance, which is why I have to side with the Israelis on this issue. At one time, they offered to meet nearly 90% of the PLO's demands, and yet they still balked.

Just like any other conflict, the weapons escalate on each side until something major enough happens for the world to intervene and then try and make nice.

This will surely escalate the conflict between these two countries! Now it's just a wait and see who strikes a devastating blow first to start an all out war.