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Hamas' Powerful New Weapon Alters Strategic Calculations Along the Gaza Strip

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posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Proto, you love doing researches don't you?
Since you don't trust my knowledge on that subject, why don't you find an unbiased expert, an ex soldier who have seen action and witnessed first hand this kind of AT damage, so he can tell you how nasty it gets from the inside.

This by the way is a penetrating hole made by an RPG 7, which is inferior to Kornet by all measures, but lethal none the less. More advanced RPG is the 29 type (tandem) capable of penetrating reactive armor.

Your attempt again to make it look like a false flag or god knows what, after you were shown sources that it was a deliberate attack by Hamas, including their own official web site, is Dumb Dumb DUMB.
If you continue with this line, consider this my last response to you on this matter.


Says the man deliberately posting claims of the most dubious nature.

A. You have not established your credentials as an expert.
B. Your study based on one picture from an Italian Web Site written in Italian is cleary not a tank hit by a missile.
C. You claimed the tank hit by an RPG of unknown origin and manufacture is typical of the damage caused by anti-Tank Missiles

So in all reality it looks like you either scoured the Internet for 'a' picture of the very least damaged tank you could find to misrepresent as a study of 'averages', or you simply picked up the link and talking points from some other Web Site like the Israeli Internet Defense Force that provides such garbage and talking points for it's force of volunteer bloggers.

So rather than admit the truth, that no, you conducted no study, no this picture does not depict a tank hit by the kind of missle that Israel is claiming hit the bus, and that you simply looked for a picture of a tank with the most minimal damage you can find or accepted one from a organized propaganda force you want to question my intelligence in noticing and or factoring in all of the above?

Probably your only move left as when your defense fails your last and only option is to go on the offense.

However I would point out that the posting of such blatant manipulations really doesn't help your cause, and only casts more suspicion on those people, who are by and large posting blatant misrepresentations and falsehoods and then simply personally attacking people observant, studied and wise enough to know that they are actually bold faced lies.

You are the one not well served going down that path, and while with this kind of subject 'popularity stars' factor into what is starred and not, it doesn't say much about the kind of people who would star your easily debunked picture and premise as being either critically minded, thorough or honest.

Thanks.




posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by baconvein
reply to post by infolurker
 


You would be surprised what people will do when pushed to the very edge, where as I don't agree with it, I understand that If Israel really cared they could maybe stop destroying peoples homes and repressing a whole nation, turning human beings into monsters doing the only thing they can to get the worlds attention.


Bullfarts. That's not even solid enough t qualify as BS, so it's bullfarts.

NO ONE external to yourself can "turn you into a monster". Only YOU can do that.

People need to own their own shortcomings, rather than lamely tying to blame them on someone else. If these people are "monsters", they have made themselves so, and no one else can take credit or blame for it.



So, are you saying that Hamas is Israel's golem?



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by randomname


What a tear-jerker.



what would you do if these were your kids.


I sure as hell wouldn't target busload of THEIR kids, who, after all, aren't the one who killed mine. Of course, if I can manage to kill enough of their kids, I suppose the survivors would grow up big and strong, and scared enough to kill some more of mine a few years down the road. What a wonderful way to perpetuate war forever! /sacrcasm



you'll never know or dream to understand what the palestinians are going thru. what would you do if you were picking up pieces of your kids from a school yard, and the people responsible are thousands of miles away dining at state diners and posing for pictures calling each other best friends. don't judge, pray.


Oh, I suppose I'd just opt to safely off a few of THEIR rugrats, rather than take the battle to the real enemy. No point in putting MYSELF in danger over a few dead kids, eh? I can always make more... /sarcasm again.



the israeli's are the aggressors,


In war, EVERYONE is "the aggressor". Static defense means certain death. It's disingenuous to blame only one side, as if the other never goes offensive.



the palestinians are abandoned and left to dry by an powerless international community that can't do anything as long as the u.s. vetoes every attempt to end this.


Well now, the proper end is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? No one wants NOT to end it, but it's a matter of what folks are willing to accept to do so. So far, the Palestinians have kept the price too high.



this isn't a religious war. this is so far away from God it might as well be hell.


Agreed, to a point. You do seem to have confused the Christian and Jewish "God" with the Islamic "Allah", though. In any event, it's not about religion - that's just a cover story. It's what all wars are about - someone trying to force their ways on someone else.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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The main point of this whole thing is a bus load of school kids got attacked and innocent people got killed,hamas are monsters for doing this and should be dealt with acordingly,what i dont get is why does israel get billions of dollars of america,israel does nothing for this money and provides the world with nothing,if im wrong and israel actualy makes or does something for the world then enlighten me plz



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Proto, you love doing researches don't you?
Since you don't trust my knowledge on that subject, why don't you find an unbiased expert, an ex soldier who have seen action and witnessed first hand this kind of AT damage, so he can tell you how nasty it gets from the inside.

This by the way is a penetrating hole made by an RPG 7, which is inferior to Kornet by all measures, but lethal none the less. More advanced RPG is the 29 type (tandem) capable of penetrating reactive armor.

Your attempt again to make it look like a false flag or god knows what, after you were shown sources that it was a deliberate attack by Hamas, including their own official web site, is Dumb Dumb DUMB.
If you continue with this line, consider this my last response to you on this matter.


Says the man deliberately posting claims of the most dubious nature.

A. You have not established your credentials as an expert.
B. Your study based on one picture from an Italian Web Site written in Italian is cleary not a tank hit by a missile.
C. You claimed the tank hit by an RPG of unknown origin and manufacture is typical of the damage caused by anti-Tank Missiles

So in all reality it looks like you either scoured the Internet for 'a' picture of the very least damaged tank you could find to misrepresent as a study of 'averages', or you simply picked up the link and talking points from some other Web Site like the Israeli Internet Defense Force that provides such garbage and talking points for it's force of volunteer bloggers.

So rather than admit the truth, that no, you conducted no study, no this picture does not depict a tank hit by the kind of missle that Israel is claiming hit the bus, and that you simply looked for a picture of a tank with the most minimal damage you can find or accepted one from a organized propaganda force you want to question my intelligence in noticing and or factoring in all of the above?

Probably your only move left as when your defense fails your last and only option is to go on the offense.

However I would point out that the posting of such blatant manipulations really doesn't help your cause, and only casts more suspicion on those people, who are by and large posting blatant misrepresentations and falsehoods and then simply personally attacking people observant, studied and wise enough to know that they are actually bold faced lies.

You are the one not well served going down that path, and while with this kind of subject 'popularity stars' factor into what is starred and not, it doesn't say much about the kind of people who would star your easily debunked picture and premise as being either critically minded, thorough or honest.

Thanks.


You cant hold his arrogance against him.
He might have one of the those new computers that has a Jewish war crimes blocker on it.
You would be suprised how many Jewish people own them nowaday's.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by g146541
 


"Genocide" is a grossly over used, and generally misused, term. I won't deal in it until it actually happens somewhere.

There aren't ANY "good guys" or "bad guys" War isn't a bunch of kids playing cowboys and indians. There are only two opposed sides. If your looking for one to be "good" and the other to be "evil", you are destined for perpetual disappointment.

"Evil" is found entirely in the actions of an individual, not as an entire "side" in a conflict. General application of the term to one entire side or the other is a bedtime story that politicians use to put the masses to sleep.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by ADVISOR
 


An anti tank missle is usually used against tanks. If Israel keeps it's tanks out of Gaza they will be safe.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by KDM_Souljah
The main point of this whole thing is a bus load of school kids got attacked and innocent people got killed

Which people are we talking about?
2 on the bus were injured, not killed.
The only people killed so far were palestenians.
They died from israeli weapons.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by manna2

So, are you saying that Hamas is Israel's golem?


Golem?

I missed that movie. Can you fill me in a bit on what you're getting at?



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by manna2

So, are you saying that Hamas is Israel's golem?


Golem?

I missed that movie. Can you fill me in a bit on what you're getting at?



Here's a thread on that, Israel funded Hamas as a counter balance to the PLO
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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If you're interested in the history of rocket attacks on Israel and how they are most likely false flags, then check out this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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lol. "Fate or perhaps by design". Yeah. Or perhaps the Israeli government staged the hole school bus thing? So they had an excuse to bomb Gaza for a few hours and "Show off" their new "Iron dome"? Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
edit on 13-4-2011 by Ryanssuperman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by filosophia
 


Searched that thread. Didn't find out what a "golem" is or how it applies.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Ok on the term Genocide, we will have to disagree.
And while there are no real good guys there most assuredly are bad guys.
I will lump the folks reacting on their peoples behalf as the good guys, this we will just have to disagree on as well.
And you are correct it is not kids playing cowbots and indians, it is kids playing P.L.O. and israelis, then the helicopters and jets show up and blow up said school yard where said children were playing.
Good, evil these terms will be defined in the future when and if we ever find out if Palestinians were freedom fighters or terrorists, we do not know yet, neither side has been extinguished yet.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by filosophia
 


Searched that thread. Didn't find out what a "golem" is or how it applies.


Well if by Golem you mean a strong arm then no, it has nothing to do with being a golem, but if golem means a lever by which it can achieve political power then yes, it uses Hamas to give justification to invade Gaza, not completely, as they don't want to totally destroy their crop of "terrorists" (i.e. people they hate).



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Oaktree

Quite a few news outlets calling the attacks "rocket" attacks, as well as the IDF.
Here is the rocket:



Capabilities: The manufacturer claims penetration of 1,200mm of steel armor or 4.5 meters of concrete.
1200 mm equals 4 ft. of steel armor
4.5 meters equals over 14.5 ft. of concrete.

And here is the school bus:



Not really trying to be an apologist for anyone, but this doesn't add up, imo.


"Penetration" is the key word there. AT weapons generally employ a "shaped charge" warhead for penetration of armor. It works by punching a hole through the armor, then unleashing the explosive force inside a confined area, such as the interior of a buttoned-up tank.

If the area is not so well confined, most of the force escapes (i.e. though open hatches, or in this case windows) rather than creating maximum damage.

As a light weight example, shake up a can of Coke then shoot it with a .22. KA-POW! It blows it all to flinders, Shake up another one, then pop the tab to allow for a pressure release, then shoot it with the same .22.

Compare the damages between the two, and you'll have a practical example of how it works, and why the damage appears lighter in flimsier targets.


edit on 2011/4/13 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by KDM_Souljah
The main point of this whole thing is a bus load of school kids got attacked and innocent people got killed,hamas are monsters for doing this and should be dealt with acordingly,what i dont get is why does israel get billions of dollars of america,israel does nothing for this money and provides the world with nothing,if im wrong and israel actualy makes or does something for the world then enlighten me plz

Then the main point of point of this whole thing is flawed. There was only one child reportedly on the bus and he did not die, the driver suffered minor injuries. Why would Hamas wait until right after the bus was unloaded to attack it? Makes no since if they were responisble and intended on targeting children.
Worked out well for Israel though, they only had to sacrificially injure one 16 year boy and got loads of support to carry out pre-planned attacks on Palestinians. Then the internet is flooded with people talking about how the evil muslim arab terrorists fired missiles at a bus full of kids.
So far the only evidence this was Hamas is an article claiming that some leader in a Hamas cell took responsibility. Does this person even exist? Is he really Hamas and was he really responsible? Does it even matter now? No, Israel already carried out their attacks and the media successfully laid blame on the very people they targeted.
edit on 13-4-2011 by PplVSNWO because: typo



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
That's crossing the line, they and who ever gave them those munitions can be expecting some serious retaliation.

Not cool, overkill and now it is going to get ugly. Expect it to get hot over there this summer, maybe even spring with that kind of escalation of force.


Have you people ni common sense? Russia did not sell, as Hamas probably has little to no "money" or gold or anything else to trade with, and they did not lend or did they send "laser guided missiles" to Hamas.

Come on man, please, okay, so explain to me HOW they would get these INTO israel? How would they "set-up" these devices or be able to hide them out of sight and without detection?

If you can control BOTH sides of a conflict, you can easily "steer it" in any direction you want. It is MY opinion that Israel does these things to their people in order to be able to retaliate and ethnic cleans and rid the world of the TRUE hebrew blood line that the Palestinians HAVE and the Israelis do not. Jealousy and fear thqat if the wordl finds ouyt or figures out that the Palestinians are the true Hebrews, then Israel and the Jews are DONE!!

I hope so, I am so sick of the BS governments and the Elite pyschopathic megalomaniacs destroying life and liberty for their own games and entertainment.

Ignorance is bliss? So they say. Use some common sense here people. WHO BENEFITS? WHO LOOKS FOR SYMPATHY? WHO HAS THE TECHNOLOGY?

ISRAEL AND THE MOSSAD



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by PplVSNWO

Originally posted by KDM_Souljah
The main point of this whole thing is a bus load of school kids got attacked and innocent people got killed,hamas are monsters for doing this and should be dealt with acordingly,what i dont get is why does israel get billions of dollars of america,israel does nothing for this money and provides the world with nothing,if im wrong and israel actualy makes or does something for the world then enlighten me plz

Then the main point of point of this whole thing is flawed. There was only one child reportedly on the bus and he did not die, the driver suffered minor injuries. Why would Hamas wait until right after the bus was unloaded to attack it? Makes no since if they were responisble and intended on targeting children.
Worked out well for Israel though, they only had to sacrificially injure one 16 year boy and got loads of support to carry out pre-planned attacks on Palestinians. Then the internet is flooded with people talking about how the evil muslim arab terrorists fired missiles at a bus full of kids.
So far the only evidence this was Hamas is an article claiming that some leader in a Hamas cell took responsibility. Does this person even exist? Is he really Hamas and was he really responsible? Does it even matter now? No, Israel already carried out their attacks and the media successfully laid blame on the very people they targeted.
edit on 13-4-2011 by PplVSNWO because: typo


I am glad you get it, wish more people would!!!!!!

Bunch of idiots spreading propoganda while INNOCENT PALESTINIANS DIE!!!!!

FECK ISRAEL TO THE CORE!!!!!



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Ok on the term Genocide, we will have to disagree.


OK, I can live with that. I'm curious to know where you think an entire race is being wiped out, though. The last real example I can think of are the Tasmanians, that last of whom died around 1840 or so. Andaman Islanders are on the verge, I hear, but that's not an intentional wiping out of them.



And while there are no real good guys there most assuredly are bad guys.


No more so than there are "good guys". One needs the other to exist, or else there is just no way to gauge it. Both terms apply solely to individual actions, not an entire "side" in a conflict. Such application only serves to demonize what you want to be demons, as a race or group.

"They" like it when you think that way...



I will lump the folks reacting on their peoples behalf as the good guys, this we will just have to disagree on as well.


Maybe. It depends on just who you think are "reacting on their people's behalf".



And you are correct it is not kids playing cowbots and indians, it is kids playing P.L.O. and israelis, then the helicopters and jets show up and blow up said school yard where said children were playing.


Oh. I see who you think are "reacting on their people's behalf" now. So it's not a matter of which kids do what, or for whom, it's just a matter of which kids have the bigger toys?



Good, evil these terms will be defined in the future when and if we ever find out if Palestinians were freedom fighters or terrorists, we do not know yet, neither side has been extinguished yet.


When thinking as you apparently are, that one side has to be "good" and the other has to be "evil", the distinction between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is solely determined by which side you place yourself on, and is in the eye of the beholder.

Objective "good" or "evil" will not be determined in the future. It will be no different than what it is now. What WILL be determined in the future is the perception of who was good and who was evil, and that will be based solely on who is left alive to write the history books.



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