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Israeli schoolbus hit with anti-tank weapon fired from Gaza, critically wounding teen

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posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Nah, looking closer I don't think Eliad's coordinates of 31.476348,34.514472 are correct..
There's what looks like a settlement or industrial zone in the way which we don't see in the pic..
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24ea64fb54fb.jpg[/atsimg]

It also looks too close, which may be on illusion but those buildings should still be visible IMO..



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 06:26 AM
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reply to post by Eliad
 


Nice job man.. It only took 70 pages here, and 35+ in the other identical thread, of repeating the same thing over and over. I doubt some people will accept your information for obvious reasons.

Thanks for finally putting this to rest.

The bus was targeted
The bus was hit with an anti tank missile
Hamas claimed responsibility for it


edit on 29-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Look at the satellite map, you can clearly see it..

Got this location off of the news, btw.

Actually according to the news the location it was hit was around 31.477427,34.509087 but I recognized the curve a few meters forwards, I'm assuming it was moved there as it's less exposed.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by Eliad
 



Look at the satellite map, you can clearly see it..


Which satellite map ??
I looked at google earth..

Going by your coordinates that so called wall is over 2 kilometers away..
Doesn't look that far to me and there's a town in the way that appears to be missing in the pic..
edit on 29-4-2011 by backinblack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


The bus was targeted
The bus was hit with an anti tank missile
Hamas claimed responsibility for it


It's been years, but saying Israel was attacked by 5 Arab countries in 1967 isn't working yet either..

You keep it up though..2050 isn't that far away.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
It's been years, but saying Israel was attacked by 5 Arab countries in 1967 isn't working yet either..

You keep it up though..2050 isn't that far away.


Again, the mindset you have is why the Palestinians are in the boat they are in. You live in the past, and refuse to look towards the future. You are more concerned with mineutia that has no bearing on anything that is going on.

You hate Israel.. We get that
You have issues with its creation.. We get that
You have issues with historical fact... we get that.

In this incident, The bus was targeted, The bus was hit with an anti tank missile, Hamas claimed responsibility for it. This is not in dispute by anyone, including hamas, except for you. You have gone through the entire gambit of trying to find any reason you can, to lay the blame on this incident somewhere else.

Whats even worse is you have such an issue with me, that you go to any lengths, including continuing a failed argument, for the soul purpose of being on the opposite side of the argument as me.

That is the mindset I am talking about. You are so blinded by hatred, that you ignore the obvious. You have such a vanity issue, that you have no issues throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I dont think anything will occur in 2050, aside from Hamas, if they are still around, continuing to kill their own people in an effort to commit genocide by trying to wipe Israel off the map. Hamas wont win in a military conflict, and thats more evident now than ever before when they decide to engage a civilian bus instead oif a military target.

I am really am sorry that your hama heros are child / civilian murders, of their own people as well as Israeli civilians, and that you are unwilling to accept that fact. But hey, based on your posts here in this and the other thread, I really think you shojld head to gaza and help Hamas out. They apparently need a new spokesperson, and that has your name written all over it.

OR

You could drop the BS and actually try to help resolve the problem, rather than support the continuation of it. A person of your bakground, coming from Afghanistan, could go a good distance in helping bridge the culteral gap and misgivings groups have for each other.

I understand that goal will be difficult, since it means being proactive and open minded, rather than just believing what you are told to beleive from years of only one side of a story.

The path that is full of challenegs, while being more difficult, is utlimately more rewarding than the path of least resitance and status quo.

You are an intelligent person Back... use that power for good.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Another long boring post that I didn't bother reading..

I wonder how many do the same.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Google's satellite map, you can clearly see some kind of industrial area to the north of Nahal Oz directly in line with the road.

It's at 31.479696,34.502156

I don't get you though, Hamas has taken responsibility for it, no one else has, so far, and Hamas has targeted and hurt civilians and children in the past, why, then, do you find it so difficult to believe that it's Hamas that did it?

I can accept the argument that they might have thought it was a bus full of soldiers, but does it really matter? Do they even care? Has their announcement been "we regret the loss of children's lives, this was meant for soldiers"?

Does anyone in Hamas shed any tears for the fact civilians were hit? And had they known do you really think they'd avoid hitting that bus?

With respect,
Eliad.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Nah, looking closer I don't think Eliad's coordinates of 31.476348,34.514472 are correct..
There's what looks like a settlement or industrial zone in the way which we don't see in the pic..
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24ea64fb54fb.jpg[/atsimg]

It also looks too close, which may be on illusion but those buildings should still be visible IMO..



which could lead us back to the theory of training pics.

the photo could have been taken in a past exercise.


another thing that keeps ME on the training idea is the absense of glass on the road.

especially here where the medics are obviously present on the scene within minutes.
we should be seeing glass on the road as well as oil behind the bus.....and note the white patch on the road behind/under the bus and no flat tires.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/16faeb62b75f.jpg[/atsimg]


unless the side windows are still intact in this training photo ??


still not enough convincing evidence for me .... but we ARE getting closer !

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a174e387ef2d.jpg[/atsimg]



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 




signature:
If you have nothing to say. say nothing..



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by Eliad
 


I can accept the argument that they might have thought it was a bus full of soldiers, but does it really matter? Do they even care? Has their announcement been "we regret the loss of children's lives, this was meant for soldiers"?

Does anyone in Hamas shed any tears for the fact civilians were hit? And had they known do you really think they'd avoid hitting that bus?


I'll ask you..Does Israel?

Israel who have killed many times more innocent men, women and children?
Israel who are oppressing an entire population..
Israel who continue to steal land..

I really don't know how I'd feel in the Palestinian's situation..
I detest the death of any innocent but who do the Palestinians, after years of oppression and killings, consider innocent?

Tough question....



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by Eliad
 



signature:
People seem to think that if youre not on their side you must be on the other side and that if youre on the other side you must be an evil lying son of a bitch.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and suddenly the world is blind and toothless.

BIB, your failure to read posts is another example of why you are so misinformed. The phrase you are looking for is the devil is in the details.

How much of your family lives in the West bank or Gaza strip?
edit on 29-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and suddenly the world is blind and toothless.

BIB, your failure to read posts is another example of why you are so misinformed. The phrase you are looking for is the devil is in the details.

How much of your family lives in the West bank or Gaza strip?
edit on 29-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


But it's never been an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth with Israel..

It's always 10 eyes for 1eye or 10 teeth for 1 tooth....
Records don't lie..
Well not yet but let's see how Israel tries to alter that history also.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Israel probably doesn't either, but you can't defend Hamas simply because you think Israel is worse, that makes no sense..
The fact that Israel kills and has killed civilians does not nullify nor does it justify this act, just as Hamas' attacks on Israeli civilians do not justify Israeli attacks...

I've got to say, though, to me this is just another attack. This isn't a red line being crossed, or a brutal horrible attack, this is just business as usual. It's a war, it's a conflict, what can we do..



signature:
People seem to think that if youre not on their side you must be on the other side and that if youre on the other side you must be an evil lying son of a bitch.

I don't think you're a lying son of a bitch, neither does Xcathdra who said you're intelligent in the post you chose to ignore..

I just thought your reply to his post was very disrespectful.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 





Actually according to the news the location it was hit was around 31.477427,34.509087 but I recognized the curve a few meters forwards, I'm assuming it was moved there as it's less exposed.


Might explain the lack of glass.

Watch the videos I've provided, it shows all the fuss around the bus.

Look, this can't be false flag and it can't be an exercise, someone would have definitely picked up on it by now, and it makes absolutely no sense for anyone to film a training exercise like this..

The training theory just doesn't add up... If you've seen IDF training you'd understand. Use logic too, look at the videos, tell me this looks like training..

With respect,
Eliad.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by Eliad
 


Sure it can be a false flag, or a training exercise, or even a vigilante act of justice and you are in fact missing two important things in such a hasty and ill concieved statmement.

1. Is complex crimes especially when they involve high levels of government/military planning and corruption can take years to unravel and get to the bottom of.

2. Many people are picking up on it 'by now'.

The fact that dogged attempts are made through what is often well coordinated campaigns to tirelessly promote official stories, attempt to use peer pressure tactics and smear campaigns to attempt to confuse or intimidate people who have concerns in no way shape or form precludes conspiracies such as false flags, or the resolute of purpose and mind from investigating them and discussing them.

Law enforcement using a wide variety of techniques often spend years gathering documentation, interviewing witnesses and analysing forensic evidence to dot i's and cross t's and bring together a case designed to convince the average OBJECTIVE person beyond a reasonable doubt.

When people with clear biases and agendas as well as motive work to impede or thwart that process it can take even longer.

It can of course also raise suspicion and go a long way to convince objective investigators that they are pursuing a valid and reasoned trail.

Thanks.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Same can be said about both sides of this debate-

People who *want* to find evidence of false flag, *will* eventually find what they're looking for.

Just because you go against conventional thinking doesn't make you right.

As with anything there's always room for doubt, but it's important to remain unbiased and reasonable.

With respect,
Eliad.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Law enforcement using a wide variety of techniques often spend years gathering documentation, interviewing witnesses and analysing forensic evidence to dot i's and cross t's and bring together a case designed to convince the average OBJECTIVE person beyond a reasonable doubt.


Very few cases take years to investigate. Where the slowdown occurs, and where many people think its because of hte investigation itself, is in fact the judicial part. The court systems are so back logged that it takes years before a trial date comes up.

The ULTIMATE goal of any investigation, is to discover the truth. Our goal, in addition to finding the guilty party if that party exists at all, is to rule people out. Ruling people out as possible suspects is more important to avoid a miscarriage of justice.

This is one of the reasons Law Enforcement submits our investigations to the Prosecuting Attorney / Convening authoirity, who in turn review the info and follow up with their own investigators to double check facts / info.

In very rare occasions will there be an absolute right, and an absolute wrong. However, there are occasions where a crime occurs, and the erson who comits the crime comes forward and admits to it. Details will come out in allocution, and the courts go from that point.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
When people with clear biases and agendas as well as motive work to impede or thwart that process it can take even longer.


If you are referring to the US here, I disagree, as a person who does what you state can be charged themselves, and I have seen it occur, because I was the one who filed the charge with the PA's office.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It can of course also raise suspicion and go a long way to convince objective investigators that they are pursuing a valid and reasoned trail.

Thanks.


The paranoia I see in some of these threads dealing with Western style legal systems, as well as middle east issues, goes to far at times. There is so much distrust that even seeing is not beleiving. If we had some people come forward who admitted to being the ones who fired the shot that hit the bus, they admit it was civilian, admit they targeted it, and admit they used a guided missile on it, we will still have people who refuse to beleive that.

In some peoples minds, from years of only getting one side of the story, nothing presented can change their mind.

Sadly, THAT is where the real miscarriage of justice comes in.

The purpose of an investigation is to investigate the incident, from the scene, to people, to eye witness accounts, to evidence collection, trace evidence collection, photos, video, admissions of guilt, to statements of innosence.

The GOAL of that investigation is to find the truth and to bring it to light, regardless of the fact that it could clear, or place suspicion on any particular party. The truth is more important than blame.

Since we have brought investigations up on a few occasions now, I would also like to point out something that I see people do.

In any investigation, prior bad acts cannot be considered unless they specifically are linked to the current investigation. Its irrelevant how many people the Israeli military people have killed, and the same holds true for how many people Hamas have killed. People must look at the totality of the circumstances of the incident at hand.

Any attempt to go beyond that prejudices the investigation, and THAT is where bias enters the equation, that is where paranoia enters the equation, that is where doubt about evidence collected enters the equation. When combined, it creates an eviornment that is poisonous to both sides of the question.

Let me ask you, BIB and Xcheu a question -

After 70+ pages, there has been post after post of information coming from different sources (western media, Arab media, Asian media) describing the events. Discounting those sources, we have Israeli sources describing the incident. Discounting those sources we are left with Hamas and their statements.

Minor discrepanices aside that come from confusion surrounding a breaking incident like this, exactly what proof are you guys looking for? I see multiple suiggestions about training this, or fals flag that, but I have yet to see anyhting that directly challeneges the words from the horses mouth.

How can people claim to support Hamas and their goals, while at the same time accusing Hamas of being controlled and run by Mossad? This is the part of you guys argument, and looking at the larger picture it makes no sense to me, both from a 3rd party view looking at the ME, as well as from a LEO view from an investigative standpoint.

If Hamas is controlled by Israel, why do you guys support their actions? Is that the occupation you guys are referring to (Since Israel withdrew all forces in 2005).

Help me out here.
edit on 29-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


This is simply not true, the revue of witnesses and documents depending on where they exist and dwell can and often does take several months to years.

The more complex the conspiracy, and conspiracy is the Federal Government's favorite criminal charge, the longer it takes to interview and depose witnesses, obtain things like bank records and purchase reciepts from multiple companies, and forensically annalyse evidence and data.

The judiciary process is something entirely different, but considering the confusing nature of many posts, that some would say are crafted specifically to confuse, it doesn't surprise me, that some would be under such a faulty and false impression as the one you appear to be.

Thanks.




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