Israeli schoolbus hit with anti-tank weapon fired from Gaza, critically wounding teen

reply to post by Xcathdra

Since you outright refuse to post your source for us to see, the only conclusion is you were trying to deceive the people in the thread, like you did with the photo you shrank.

More lies and deceit..
The link was posted, just not by me and I NEVER said I'd posted it..
I shrank no pics..
Only a fool would post such lies when the link to the external image is clearly visible..

Keep up the rants though..
You're like a dog with a bone or is your avatar a cock??

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by xuenchen

now see the AP photo with the same red containers and debris
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/359a664e8625.jpg[/atsimg]


now see a different photo missing the trees and different towers with the same red containers and debris
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0ec0e345ae85.jpg[/atsimg]

The missing tree is a function of the angle the photo was shot from, the distance, and the zoom. Look closely at the side of the bus, just to the left of the green stripe on the front of it, and you will see half of the tree, with the other half being hidden by the bus. The towers appear to be the same to me, but with the addition of another one to the left, due to the angle of the photo coverage widening. This second photo was likely shot from a slightly longer distance, using a zoom lens.

The second pic is actually taken from farther left as the yellow line clearly shows..
From that point the tree should be more visible, not more hidden behind the bus..

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by backinblack
Ahh, comprehension problems..

Did I ever say I posted the link??
No, I said it was posted..
Try to keep up.

Since you outright refuse to post your source for us to see, the only conclusion is you were trying to deceive the people in the thread, like you did with the photo you shrank.

You have no credibility at all, and you have no issues making flase statements in order to support your cause.

A bus was intentionally targeted by Hamas -
Hamas Website

A guided missile was used by Hamas -
FoxNews, www.huffingtonpost.com, www.guardian.co.uk, www.strategypage.com, CBC News, ]Aljazeera
Lebanon Daily Star
Turkeys Daily News - English edition
Times of India
Focus.net
NowLebanon News
Palestinian Times
Al-Quassam - Hamas offical website

Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack -
Al-Quassam - Hamas offical website

Your arguments to date, with absolutely NO supporting documentation -
Propoganda - no evidence of a missile hitting the bus
Here you say Hamas did hit the bus
Now you suggest Hamas was just training
Here you admit Hamas is never slow to take crdit - which they did
Here you state Israel is a terrorist state that hates all arabs
Here you state Israel chose that point of land
Here you excuse Hamas actions because of the number of dead palestinian children
Here you state Hamas is corrupt, and downplay the rockets, stating "useless little rockets"

Your posts above are from just a few pages.. You hop from argument to argument with the frequency of a cheap ham radio, and your ethics would raise eyebrows in the Court of Caligula.


To recap -
Hamas intentionally targeted bus
Hamas fired guided missile at bus
Hamas took credit for the attack

You have not given one piece of evidence / source/ citation to support your accusations. I suppose next you will argue HAARP is behind the attack?

Please, show us info to support your claims.

edit on 28-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Mate, I really hope people open the links to my posts you listed to see how you try to deceive..
That's so funny...

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I think this might be the incident location. Using Hamas website, where they state the incident took place on the strip border just east of Gaza City.

The curve is there, in addition the the road going from 2 to 4 lanes. Plug the lat / long into Google Earth, or Google Maps.

Lat - 31°28'51.63"N
Long - 34°29'29.79"E

maps.google.com...

That site has a lot to reccomend it. There is the T intersection which would be behind the bus visible in the photos from the front, and the road does widen out there with the narrow section leading to the T intersection. One potential problem is the road coming in from the southwest, right where the road gets wider. It should be visible in the photos coming in from the left. The place where the road widens is only 470m from the Gaza border, though, which is a plus in the ID.

reply to post by xuenchen


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24ea64fb54fb.jpg[/atsimg]

Now that pic makes it tough..

There is nowhere on that road with a bend that suits that pics bend if the bus was in fact heading away from Gaza..
All the bends heading out of Gaza look to go to the right..
The bend in that pic is to the left and fairly sharp..
There also appears to be quite a few buildings in the background..
I seriously can not place that on the stated road.

reply to post by Xcathdra

You have not given one piece of evidence / source/ citation to support your accusations.

As opposed to you who has given multiple sources with multiple conflicting scenarios..

Well done..

reply to post by xuenchen

Getty must have edited the original pic !!!! WHY, who knows !

Well with the cropping etc that hid the sharp bend and the buildings in the background it certainly made it harder to pinpoint a location..

So I don't know why the did it either..

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by xuenchen

now see the AP photo with the same red containers and debris
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/359a664e8625.jpg[/atsimg]


now see a different photo missing the trees and different towers with the same red containers and debris
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0ec0e345ae85.jpg[/atsimg]

The missing tree is a function of the angle the photo was shot from, the distance, and the zoom. Look closely at the side of the bus, just to the left of the green stripe on the front of it, and you will see half of the tree, with the other half being hidden by the bus. The towers appear to be the same to me, but with the addition of another one to the left, due to the angle of the photo coverage widening. This second photo was likely shot from a slightly longer distance, using a zoom lens.

The second pic is actually taken from farther left as the yellow line clearly shows..
From that point the tree should be more visible, not more hidden behind the bus..

that's what i thought !!!!

and what about the power towers ????

and how about the equipment on the left being in the same place ????

reply to post by xuenchen

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24ea64fb54fb.jpg[/atsimg]

After seeing this pic you posted compared to the cropped one that Xcathdra posted,
I'm now thinking the bus may not have been moved at all..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by xuenchen

 

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24ea64fb54fb.jpg[/atsimg]

Now that pic makes it tough..

There is nowhere on that road with a bend that suits that pics bend if the bus was in fact heading away from Gaza..
All the bends heading out of Gaza look to go to the right..
The bend in that pic is to the left and fairly sharp..
There also appears to be quite a few buildings in the background..
I seriously can not place that on the stated road.

I'm working on it, and have some pictures worked up. I need to resize and upload to ATS, then I'll make a post. Suffice it to say that picture changes a lot of the way I was thinking.

What I thought was a T intersection is actually a steep curve in the road.

You can see the far edge of the road. The entire road is offset. It's not a wide spot in the road, what appears to be the offset edge or "end" of the road is actually the ridge of a hill that the road crosses. It's a dip in the road that you can't see into until the road "rises" on the other side of it. That also has implications for the disappearing trees, which are in that dip.

At first I took the buildings in the distance for a military base, because they are surrounded by a high fence. Upon reconsideration, I believe that is actually Gaza, with a high fence around it.

Yessir, that picture helped a lot!

Let me eat and get these pictures ready to post, and I'll be back in a few with another post of what I've found.

OK. First, the first location I suggested has the lay of the land all wrong, so it can safely be scrapped. We then have 3 potential sites left listed in the thread: Eliad's suggestion, Xcathedra's suggestion, and a new one I found given the uncropped photo that xuenchen posted.

First, an overview of those 3 sites:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/67d18a20077f.jpg[/atsimg]

Next, Xcathedra's suugestion:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9402ca192f71.jpg[/atsimg]

We see 2 potential sharp curves to the left, and it's pretty close to Gaza. The only problem is that from ground level, a hill hides the curves from view.

The Eliad's suggestion:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6b98766a1476.jpg[/atsimg]

The main problem here is that the Main road curves the wrong way, but there IS what appears to be a small secondary road that follows the proper curvature.

Now 3 different views of a new potential site:

1)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f5d88c2bda33.jpg[/atsimg]

Here we see that there is in fact a hill to the left of where the bus would be sitting, also shown in the photographs.

2)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d494900c42a9.jpg[/atsimg]

A slightly lower and closer view, showing the site, the hill, and Gaza in the distance.

3)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/21e87fe39e98.jpg[/atsimg]

Here we have the kicker, what to me is a smoking gun for the time being, unless I can find a better location. We can see the fold in the road at the dip in the road behind the bus, with the road rising again on the other side of the dip.

The red line is the Gazan border, with Gaza on the other side of it.

I dunno, I think I'm going with the last location unless I can find better, but you all are welcome to make up your own minds in the matter.

reply to post by nenothtu


Possible Neo but a couple of points..

First, I've searched pics of the Gaza wall but see nothing resembling what I see here..
Not a biggie, I'm sure there's different walls..

Now your locations looks like the most likely but,
the bus was coming from Nahal Oz, therefore the only link to the main road is east of your location..

But then I don't know if any new roads have been built..

I also still have to ask if you've looked for a site with the bus aiming the other way..

Star for effort BTW.

You guys had me going crazy with these pictures. Anyway, I just wanted to pass something along that I noticed. Back in black this first photo is yours. Notice the broken white lines to the right of the bus.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24ea64fb54fb.jpg[/atsimg]

In the photo below we clearly see the broken white line to the left of the bus as the photo is from the rear of the bus. Notice too across the street toward the left and the barrier that is there. Notice as well the gentlemen to the right of the bus and what kind of shirt he is wearing. Wasn't our bus driver wearing that very same shirt? Only he had glasses on and a hat in that photo and his sleeves weren't rolled up. Notice the white vehicle in front of the bus.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cd7134e5b15f.jpg[/atsimg]

Is this the same guy depicted in that photo above? I believe xuenchen has already pointed out some things about the above photo as well in regards to shadows and what not.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d0eb3193a4a1.jpg[/atsimg]

In the photo below just notice the area across the street and the barrier.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/643f5e27bcd3.jpg[/atsimg]

Now take note of the area across the street as we see that white vehicle and notice too that you can see a portion of the broken white line that we were referring to previously to the left of the left elbow of the guy in the picture.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c0673252744e.jpg[/atsimg]

Now you cannot see the broken white line at all in the photo below. Notice the ground to the right of the bus here as well. I'm not sure if that terrain is consistent in all of the photos. I'm not expert though. I believe we used this photo at one point prior to this as well. We have probably been over this already but like I said, I was going batty with the photo evidence and I just had to post this.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/daa7b19e8659.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by jackflap


Gee that's a toughie but I don't think it's the driver..
Hard to zoom in enough though, low resolution..

BTW, IMO the bus was NOT moved..
It's in the same location in each pic...

Actually, my record keeping sucked. I went back and re-checked myself, since Google Earth took the instant to completely fill up my hard drive with data and lock up.

The last picture in my last post is NOT from what is labelled as the ?"New Site", it is from another location east of the one Eliad suggested, and is actually located at 31 28 32.86n, 34 30 58.30e.

Sorry 'bout that, but i try to recheck myself and self correct if necessary, and in this case it is.

reply to post by backinblack


Good enough for me. Hey, weren't we wondering where the bus was traveling? I believe this is the first time I found an article saying where the bus was. On the Negev desert roadway near the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council. I'm going to check that out too.

As far as that being the guy, I don't know. I was going crazy with these damn photos. It really is hard to tell if the bus is in the same place every time. That's why I figured I'd post those and let someone else take a gander. Here is a link to that article by the way.

Teen critically injured in attack on Negev bus Initial report suggests anti-tank fired from Gaza Strip hit bus driving near Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council; 16-year-old boy critically injured, another man sustains leg wounds.

www.ynetnews.com...

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Possible Neo but a couple of points..

First, I've searched pics of the Gaza wall but see nothing resembling what I see here..
Not a biggie, I'm sure there's different walls..

Now your locations looks like the most likely but,
the bus was coming from Nahal Oz, therefore the only link to the main road is east of your location..

Yup, and that would be a lot closer to Eliad's suggestion. There does appear to be a secondary, dirt road coming from the Gaza side of nahal Oz to the west of the location I mentioned, though, and it would be in the dip in the road, not visible in the photographs. it could be that Eliad was closer to the mark than I am.

I also still have to ask if you've looked for a site with the bus aiming the other way..

Star for effort BTW.

Yessir, I did, and the first site I mentioned is still the closest to fulfilling the description if the bus was going the other way. The main problem with it is the lack of a built up area visible from that location to the east. There is another place just east of Sa'ad where the road curves right, but the hill beside the bus is not there.

Let's put this silliness to rest.. Did a little digging-

This is the spot:
31.476348,34.514472

Watch this-
news.nana10.co.il...

At 1:25 you get to see the entire area surrounding the bus, the posts, the tree, everything is there.

Want more?

www.mako.co.il...
The cameraman practically walks around the bus is circles.

And if you're still wondering who did it-
articles.cnn.com...:WORLD

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Eliad


Thanks! It checks out perfectly with the rear of the bus facing Gaza, and sits about 175m from the last site I thought it might be (the location of the last Google Earth picture in my post above). Just over 2200m from Gaza.

With the bus oriented so that the rear is towards Gaza, the road curves correctly, the hill is on the proper side, the dip in the road is present, and Gaza is the built up area seen behind the fence in the distance behind the bus.

That's it, then

reply to post by nenothtu


That position on the road looks more reasonable being further east..

But where do you think they fired from?
Would they have clear line if sight?
Gaza is at a slightly lower elevation and that wall is pretty damn high..