Israeli schoolbus hit with anti-tank weapon fired from Gaza, critically wounding teen

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posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Eliad
 



IS Nahal Oz heavily populated ?




Around 350 people according to Hebrew wiki.. No military families as most of the guys that serve there are 18-21.


So why was the school bus coming from there?
It had reportedly just dropped off lids minutes before


and we should wonder if THAT many kids are even living there ??

maybe more kids from different towns ??

and what school(s) ??




posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu
 


That position on the road looks more reasonable being further east..

But where do you think they fired from?
Would they have clear line if sight?
Gaza is at a slightly lower elevation and that wall is pretty damn high..


For line-of-sight weapons, the elevations on either end aren't as important as the intervening elevations. You can fire 'em uphill as easily as downhill, as long as there aren't obstructions between the two points. In one picture, it appeared that the section of Gaza within the line of sight had a slight elevation relative to the bus position, but the important thing is that there was a line of sight.

With indirect fire weapons, such as mortars, even intervening obstacles aren't a barrier, since the trajectory will loop over them. Need decent forward observers to call in the adjustments, though. Which are a real problem with a moving target. It didn't appear the area had been previously bracketed for mortar fire, either.

Now that I know the position of the bus, I could do a weapon fan for a 5km or so 360 degree radius around it and find out which portions of that area have line of sight, but it won't bee foolproof, just a general observation, sine the tightest terrain models I have for that area are 90 (horizontal) meter resolution.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Nah, looking closer I don't think Eliad's coordinates of 31.476348,34.514472 are correct..
There's what looks like a settlement or industrial zone in the way which we don't see in the pic..


It also looks too close, which may be on illusion but those buildings should still be visible IMO..


Actually, that looks like the development, probably a military base, located at 31 28 46.24n, 34 30 05.25e. The car park by the fence is even in the right position as seen from near the coordinates Eliad gave, as are the long buildings. It looks to me like the bus point ought to be a few meters further west, towards the curve, than the one given, but that may just be an artifact of the way Google Earth displays things.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Heh false flag meter


Why don't you watch the videos and observe the scene yourself, see what you can come up with.. It's on 72 or something..


What I found about the video was the driver..
We've seen pics of him being restrained/helped by two policeman..
He is supposed to be injured yet in the video we see him walking around with no apparent injuries while talking on his mobile..


Depends on the type and extent of the injuries, adrenaline, and the basic constitution of the driver. I've seen dying men laugh and joke, in no apparent pain at all, and yet they died from some pretty grievous injuries. I personally have walked, and at times run, with wounds that had me limping severely, and in one case immobilized, the next day. What you can do right then is sometimes more than would be expected, although not always by any means.

Like I said, it depends a lot on the individual, the adrenaline, and endorphins, as well as the type of injuries and extent - i.e. whether enough tissue was destroyed or damaged that it's physically impossible to move a limb or whatever because the connections are no longer there or too damaged. The driver had blood stains on the front of his pants at the thighs, but I couldn't tell if it was his or from the injured boy. By all the accounts I've seen his injuries were moderate, which would indicate to me that under the influence of adrenaline and such, he'd still be able to move fairly well under his own power - until he sat down for too long, or certainly by the next day. When that sort of thing starts stiffening up on ya, motion becomes an adventure.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 



For line-of-sight weapons, the elevations on either end aren't as important as the intervening elevations.


The elevation is VERY important if you have to fire over a 30' high wall...

Hey, I checked for "google street view'..

Israel doesn't allow it...



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 



Depends on the type and extent of the injuries, adrenaline, and the basic constitution of the driver.


The drivers statements and actions are all over the place..

He said he was forced to evacuate the area yet we see him on his phone near the bus.
He said the tires blew yet we see no sign of that.
He said he carried the boy over his shoulder and that he was covered in blood yet we see none on his shirt..



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap

If I go to the link provided, where on the page do I click to see the video? I can't get anything but ads or something. When I click on other pieces I get another article about something or the other. I don't know where to click to get the video and I do not have a Hebrew to English dictionary. Help!


The videos are on the right side of the page, and there are two of them. Some sort of overscreen popped up on them (had what appeared to be a series of age ranges listed beside radio buttons on them), and since I can't read Hebrew I just clicked the lower right hand button on each one (the overscreens, not the videos themselves), and that seemed to do the trick. I'm running script blockers, and had to allow the page to run scripts before the videos would show up at all, but that's the case with any videos I watch, even YouTube.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu
 



For line-of-sight weapons, the elevations on either end aren't as important as the intervening elevations.


The elevation is VERY important if you have to fire over a 30' high wall...


In those cases, you either increase your elevation to clear the wall, or work your way to the other side of the wall. That's why allah gave us rooftops, rope, and ladders.




Hey, I checked for "google street view'..

Israel doesn't allow it...



That sort of figures, doesn't it? Actually, I've not fooled with Street View very much, and am not too familiar with it - especially outside the US. I know that my uncle shows up in one of their pix at his house, mowing his lawn


I thought at first it was perhaps because it was a rural area, but where I work is pretty damned rural, and they managed to get a street view from within about 30 or 40 meters of my little home away from home (my little hut shows up beautifully!), so I'd guess Israel doesn't allow it out of some sort of a security doctrine.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nenothtu
 



Depends on the type and extent of the injuries, adrenaline, and the basic constitution of the driver.


The drivers statements and actions are all over the place..

He said he was forced to evacuate the area yet we see him on his phone near the bus.
He said the tires blew yet we see no sign of that.
He said he carried the boy over his shoulder and that he was covered in blood yet we see none on his shirt..


Oh, OK. I thought that we were questioning whether or not he had any injuries, because he was still operating under his own power, and was just observing that sort of thing isn't as unusual or superhuman as many folks assume it is.

We've recently had a spate of weather here, where something over 300 people have been killed. Two weeks ago, before this most recent bit of weather, we had another blow through that killed 22 people between here and the ocean - maybe 300 or 400 miles or so. When I'm at work, I'm out in that, and have people trying to pester me on the phone when I've got things to do, just because funnel clouds are forming directly over my head (and I mean that literally - I've got video), so the fact that he'd be on the phone after everything was pretty much over (explosion done, fires out, medics on the the scene, etc.) letting folks know he wasn't killed really doesn't surprise me. Some concerned folk will ring that phone right of the hook right in the thick of things!

Memories of traumatic events are not always the most reliable in particulars, either - especially a few days after the fact, when it's had time to gnaw on the mind and grow a little. Obviously the tires didn't blow, nor is there any particular reason that they would have had to, although they certainly could have. His "memory" of events can't contradict objective observation at the scene, but they are his memories to deal with. That's why it's best to record those memories just as soon as practicable after the event - so that you have something a bit more objective to fall back on after they've been allowed to grow and grow in the mind.

He certainly was forced to evacuate the area - we've seen the photos of him being dragged away, by force, and they have come under some particular scrutiny as to why he was being hauled off like that. That part really can't be contested, we have the photos right in this thread of it. Speculation as to the reasons for that is unwarranted at this point, and irrelevant to the facts of this particular incident. What speculations I've seen here, wild and unwarranted as they are, should belong properly to another sort of investigation altogether. The facts as demonstrated here are that he was "evacuated", or "hauled off" if you prefer, after Hamas sent something explosive at the bus. Whether he was involved in any sort of criminality probably didn't influence Hamas to blow the bus up, and it probably didn't instigate Hamas to become an organ of the Mossad, or any of the other speculations going on. It's irrelevant to the case at hand.

In other words, allegations of criminal activity or impropriety on the bus driver's part are to my mind nothing more than a speculative attempt to smear and obfuscate, remove attention to the examination at hand concerning an attack on a school bus, with no evidentiary basis or relevance whatsoever.

Now, the shirt is a problem to be explained. It is especially so in light of the fact that his pants ARE covered in blood, yet his shirt is pristine. I watched the videos yet again, and it's laundry fresh, front and back. Now, if you or I were going to stage an event, would we really cover the main player's pants in blood, and neglect his shirt altogether? I believe that if we thought of one of those details, we'd not neglect the other. Because of that, I'm willing to entertain explanations of that discrepancy. Was he wearing a jacket during the event? Was there some reason that he changed shirts, maybe after medical examination? If so, where would the new shirt have come from? Was it staged by truly sloppy and inept provocateurs? Was he wearing it as an overshirt on a chill morning, and had taken it off because it had gotten warm on the bus, and so wasn't wearing it during the emergency - but retrieved it after the explosion? I don't know those answers, or indeed if there is some other reason for the discrepancy that we've not accounted for or brought up, but in any case the discrepancy is there.



edit on 2011/4/30 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 



so I'd guess Israel doesn't allow it out of some sort of a security doctrine.


Well even google earth is crap in Israel..
I just checked out my house and can clearly make out my cars parked there..

Google earth Israel is nowhere near the same resolution..

Israel seems to have a lot to hide.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 04:08 AM
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So what has been Israels retaliation to this attack?

Nineteen Palestinians in Gaza were killed this month in retaliatory Israeli strikes launched after Hamas claimed responsibility for shooting at an Israeli school bus, critically wounding an Israeli teenager who later died of his injuries.

Link - Wordpress
edit on 30-4-2011 by SpeachM1litant because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 05:21 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Yeah, the driver's probably lying, trying to make himself some kind of hero. Either that or he was directed by the reporter to exaggerate so they'd have a better story than "The bus was hit, I ran out"...



that, my friend is the whole point of a training exercise !!!!!!


I thought it was to train soldiers how to react in a real event...



civilians are many time part of an "incident" hence we see "civilian" characters posing as victims etc.


In an army exercise they'd have soldier posing as civilians with various injuries, furthermore they'd have much more than 1 injury, they'd probably have the soldiers deal with 30 ranging from lightly to severely injured.



contractors get paid big money for this.


Huh? Why?

So you believe all the news channels and all the people there know that this is fake and are remaining silent?

You're saying news channels just got tapes in the mail coming from the army saying "this is the scene" and they just complied?

Are you kidding me?

And finally, how is it training if Hamas says it did it, it just didn't know it was a school bus?

With respect,
Eliad.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 05:24 AM
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edit on 30-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Yeah, and you see two men trying to take him away from the scene...

And he does seem like he's trying to shake them off and stay with the boy.

Just what I'm seeing.. Tell me if you see anything different.

He's definitely a liar though, probably exaggerated some details to make himself look like a hero or to cover up for the fact that he didn't rescue the boy..

As for the rocket- The bus was hit further down the road, before the curve, according to the news (as I've stated before).

With respect,
Eliad.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 





THAT's what i'v been trying to tell everybody !!!!
that's part of the training to identify good from tainted !!
the pics have been altered to develop a "keen eye"..


If they were put in the same spot in a training exercise, why can't they be put in the same spot in a real event?

I don't get it, what's the difference?

With respect,
Eliad.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by backinblack
 

Yeah, and you see two men trying to take him away from the scene...
And he does seem like he's trying to shake them off and stay with the boy.
Just what I'm seeing.. Tell me if you see anything different.
He's definitely a liar though, probably exaggerated some details to make himself look like a hero or to cover up for the fact that he didn't rescue the boy..
As for the rocket- The bus was hit further down the road, before the curve, according to the news (as I've stated before).
With respect,
Eliad.


So them two big men later let him go and he pranced around the bus making calls on his mobile phone ??

So I'll ask you, who the hell said it was a missile??
Was it this delusional driver that keeps changing his story?

Who was it? You tell us....



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
edit on 30-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Most intelligent post you've ever made..



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by Xcathdra
edit on 30-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Most intelligent post you've ever made..


Yeah.. ive found when I argue with stupid people, they have a tendancy to bring me down to their level, then beat me with experience.

Sadly I wish you could take your own advice with your signature..


If you have nothing to say. say nothing..
edit on 30-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



Yeah.. ive found when I argue with stupid people, they have a tendancy to bring me down to their level, then beat me with experience.


Mate, you can only wish you had my IQ...
You can't even spell properly..



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 08:23 AM
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Reading the latest comments here, I don't see a very good reason to browse through this BS investigators wannabe thread to find out an answer to the following question:

Why are people still discussing the possibility of a false flag op or a training exercise when Hamas took responsibility for this already?





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