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Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by zilebeliveunknown
lol no. If you read back in some of my old posts, although not said you'd get the impression that I don't rock with any organizations period. I'm especially not a fan of organizations in America, that are run by immigrant muslims. So they don't have my support either.
Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by Sinnthia
Yeah, today, I see how I was award winningly unclear .
I think my point was that these items (or what they cover) are not mentioned in the Quran as part of the standard for modesty, they are based on the culture the person comes from, but not with a religious basis.
Originally posted by Sinnthia
It is actually pretty common knowledge that many cultures around the world reject what the western world considers the "freedom" to dress like whores. Not every female aspires to wear mini-skirts and tube tops.
Originally posted by searching4truth
Therefore, when someone immigrates to Australia or anywhere else where the government or culture does not condone such a covering there is no religious justification.
For example, I can not walk around outside in my town, go shopping, etc with a mask covering my face (I live in Illinois, US).
I support people's right's to practice their religion as is required, however these two pieces are not part of religion.
I do not think that the women that chose to wear it are all oppressed or waiting to harm me but when a person willingly immigrates from one culture to another there are new rules, laws, ordinances, or simply cultural standards.
I'm sure there has been discrimination toward women that wear the hijab, but I haven't heard of any sort of legal issues (similar to lawsuits I have heard of where the woman was asked or demanded to remove it for a drivers licenses or passport).
A Musliminah is completely capable of maintaining what her religion tells her is the modesty standard while living in western countries without having to wear tube tops and hot pants.
Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by tungus
Listen, I don't think you get this. I don't require an excuse for my faith. When I was younger, I explored and study many different religions. I was born muslim, but when I grew of age, decided to "shop around". After a time of studying bhuddism, and agnosticism, I chose to come back to islam, so you can call me a "convert" if that makes you feel better. But to act like I need an excuse for my choice is ignorant. Just because it's not something you would choose doesn't mean something is wrong with me. Your way of thinking is completely opposite to the classic American values which I'm sure you are an outspoken proponent of.
Originally posted by Alxandro
Ok, but what happens when the day finally comes for a global Jihad, and your pals command you to kill an infedel or die with one?
What will you do then?
Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
Broken record, you're trying too hard, sounds like you are trying to convince yourself or proove something to someone.
Ok, but what happens when the day finally comes for a global Jihad, and your pals command you to kill an infedel or die with one?
What will you do then?
Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by Sinnthia
Laugh it up funny boy.
I'm not asking you to agree with me, just do me a favor,..
HOPE FOR THE BEST and EXPECT THE WORSE.
Btw, with regards to these "good" Muslims that the OP is trying so hard to be one of, they appear to be the ones that are targeted by CAIR.
Originally posted by Sinnthia
The government or culture does not condone women wearing whatever covering they choose to wear in Austrailia? That sounds quite oppressive. In the US we have no such cultural or government rules that dictate women may not wear as much clothing as they wish to. There are local laws about not wearing enough but not the other way around. Why would anyone advocate such oppression of women? Who get's to decide that a woman is TOO COVERED up?.
Your religious argument confuses me as well. I know a great number of Catholics that attend midnight mass on December 24th as part of their devotion to their religion. Because that is not specifically mentioned in the bible, they are wrong to do that?
I find it strange that you feel you should dictate how women should dress and how they should express their own religion. You do not see that as a bit anti-freedom?
I am sorry to hear that. Is this something you feel a great desire to do?
The burqa is the gown, not the facial cover that some cultures include in their "modest dress."
Says you? You get to decide what is and what is not part of how someone practices their own religion? Are you telling Jews to cut that Chanukah stuff out because the Torah never mentioned giving out socks for 8 days? Just curious.
I do not think that the women that chose to wear it are all oppressed or waiting to harm me but when a person willingly immigrates from one culture to another there are new rules, laws, ordinances, or simply cultural standards.
Who defines those? Are they written down? Is she required to go braless at Wal-mart and eat a biggy fries at least twice a week? What exactly is this woman free to do and what is she required to do as part of the forced assimilation you speak of? Is there a specific wardrobe? Dress code? Where are these things written out? I always heard women in Australia think the men there treat them like crap. I had no idea you decided what women could wear. Interesting.
I'm sure there has been discrimination toward women that wear the hijab, but I haven't heard of any sort of legal issues (similar to lawsuits I have heard of where the woman was asked or demanded to remove it for a drivers licenses or passport).
Why should there be a problem with a hijab?[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/14f01e271da1.jpg[/atsimg]
Can you see her face?
A Musliminah is completely capable of maintaining what her religion tells her is the modesty standard while living in western countries without having to wear tube tops and hot pants.
But she is NOT ALLOWED to wear a burqa if she wants to?
You should probably keep that in Austrailia. If I want to wrap myself in 100 bed sheets before I go to the corner store to get a new lighter, I have that right. I am sorry if you do not like it. You can wear a burqa and hijab while still exposing your face. [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/115fdbd135bf.jpg[/atsimg]Why should you get to tell any women they may not dress this way?edit on 10-3-2011 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by searching4truth
Well, I do not live in Australia, I think I mentioned that somewhere, well if not in any event I do not live there, I live in Illinois, USA.
Originally posted by searching4truth
Therefore, when someone immigrates to Australia or anywhere else where the government or culture does not condone such a covering there is no religious justification.
I don't think it is a matter of a woman not being able to wear what she wants and being oppressed, it is a matter of safety. A person can not be identified, the same reason why a person can not wear a ski mask into a store, it's just that simple.
My point with the religious requirement was that it isn't one and therefore is not protected by the freedom of religion.
A hijab is and when a woman wears it, she is able to be identified, no problem there.
The burqa is not the gown, the gown that many women wear over their street clothes, while they are in the street is a thobe (not sure of the transliterated spelling there and that's what we call it in my area). The burqa includes a piece with a meshish covering over the eyes and the face is not visible at all, two different things.
No I have desire to run around in a mask everyday, so I do not feel infringed upon in any way.
The item is not required by the Quran, it really is that simple.
According to the Quran a woman is to be covered, except for her face, hands, and feet (note hair is to be covered) if one desires to uphold the Islamic standard of modesty (source Muslim family).
It isn't something that needs to be interpreted it's laid out right there.
No, I don't care if Jews hand out gifts and I don't care if Muslims had them out at the end of Ramadan either. My sole objection to the garment is that the person is not identifiable, that's it.
It could be a highly religious woman under the garments, or it could be a crazy white guy serial killer/rapist/most evil being one could imagine.
My issue is only that a person needs to be able to be identified, and the garments specifically make that impossible.
Note: just once more for clarification, that does not include the hijab all hijabs have an open face.
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