I'm a muslim. I'm not violent/radical. Tell me I'm lying!

Originally posted by Jibbs

Click here for more information.

The truth hurts?

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by zilebeliveunknown

 

lol no. If you read back in some of my old posts, although not said you'd get the impression that I don't rock with any organizations period. I'm especially not a fan of organizations in America, that are run by immigrant muslims. So they don't have my support either.

Are you trying to tell me that there is a radical immigrant islamistic organizations in America?
How do you know that? Authorities would love to here that.
And what is your knowledge about Otoman Empire?
As far as I know, they forcibly converted millions of people into islam, and impaled those who were against. And that is the fact.
So, don't tell me about the content of "peaceful kuran".

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


Broken record, you're trying too hard, sounds like you are trying to convince yourself or proove something to someone.
Ok, but what happens when the day finally comes for a global Jihad, and your pals command you to kill an infedel or die with one?

What will you do then?

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Yeah, today, I see how I was award winningly unclear

.

Well to be fair, it was clear in and of itself. It was in how it related to my post that I got a little confused.

I think my point was that these items (or what they cover) are not mentioned in the Quran as part of the standard for modesty, they are based on the culture the person comes from, but not with a religious basis.

Which was what I was addressing.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
It is actually pretty common knowledge that many cultures around the world reject what the western world considers the "freedom" to dress like whores. Not every female aspires to wear mini-skirts and tube tops.

I hope that is more clear now.

Originally posted by searching4truth
Therefore, when someone immigrates to Australia or anywhere else where the government or culture does not condone such a covering there is no religious justification.

The government or culture does not condone women wearing whatever covering they choose to wear in Austrailia? That sounds quite oppressive. In the US we have no such cultural or government rules that dictate women may not wear as much clothing as they wish to. There are local laws about not wearing enough but not the other way around. Why would anyone advocate such oppression of women? Who get's to decide that a woman is TOO COVERED up?.

Your religious argument confuses me as well. I know a great number of Catholics that attend midnight mass on December 24th as part of their devotion to their religion. Because that is not specifically mentioned in the bible, they are wrong to do that?

I find it strange that you feel you should dictate how women should dress and how they should express their own religion. You do not see that as a bit anti-freedom?

For example, I can not walk around outside in my town, go shopping, etc with a mask covering my face (I live in Illinois, US).

I am sorry to hear that. Is this something you feel a great desire to do?
The burqa is the gown, not the facial cover that some cultures include in their "modest dress."

I support people's right's to practice their religion as is required, however these two pieces are not part of religion.

Says you? You get to decide what is and what is not part of how someone practices their own religion? Are you telling Jews to cut that Chanukah stuff out because the Torah never mentioned giving out socks for 8 days? Just curious.

I do not think that the women that chose to wear it are all oppressed or waiting to harm me but when a person willingly immigrates from one culture to another there are new rules, laws, ordinances, or simply cultural standards.

Who defines those? Are they written down? Is she required to go braless at Wal-mart and eat a biggy fries at least twice a week? What exactly is this woman free to do and what is she required to do as part of the forced assimilation you speak of? Is there a specific wardrobe? Dress code? Where are these things written out? I always heard women in Australia think the men there treat them like crap. I had no idea you decided what women could wear. Interesting.

I'm sure there has been discrimination toward women that wear the hijab, but I haven't heard of any sort of legal issues (similar to lawsuits I have heard of where the woman was asked or demanded to remove it for a drivers licenses or passport).

Why should there be a problem with a hijab?[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/14f01e271da1.jpg[/atsimg]
Can you see her face?

A Musliminah is completely capable of maintaining what her religion tells her is the modesty standard while living in western countries without having to wear tube tops and hot pants.

But she is NOT ALLOWED to wear a burqa if she wants to?

You should probably keep that in Austrailia. If I want to wrap myself in 100 bed sheets before I go to the corner store to get a new lighter, I have that right. I am sorry if you do not like it. You can wear a burqa and hijab while still exposing your face. [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/115fdbd135bf.jpg[/atsimg]Why should you get to tell any women they may not dress this way?

I would like to try a different approach and ask a question. Questions are how we learn, after all. And mutual understanding and knowledge seems to be in order, here. So my question is this.

For those who feel strongly that Islam is a violent religion that espouses terror and extremism without exception: what would you have done about it? Please be frank, blunt, and forthright in your response. What, ultimately, is it that you would like to see happen? Bearing in mind that OP has clearly stated he is American citizen, what would make you happy, and feel safe and secure?

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by tungus

 

Listen, I don't think you get this. I don't require an excuse for my faith. When I was younger, I explored and study many different religions. I was born muslim, but when I grew of age, decided to "shop around". After a time of studying bhuddism, and agnosticism, I chose to come back to islam, so you can call me a "convert" if that makes you feel better. But to act like I need an excuse for my choice is ignorant. Just because it's not something you would choose doesn't mean something is wrong with me. Your way of thinking is completely opposite to the classic American values which I'm sure you are an outspoken proponent of.

I get this, I assure you. You say that your mind is your own but in reality you didn't stand a chance. You weren't born muslim you were born to parents who filled your mind with islam. There is nothing special or unique about your "choice" to come back to islam. This is how religion, in your case islam, propagates itself. Like salmon, who don't have a choice but to go back to their birthplace to die, your mind was programmed to revert to islam where it died. I'm sorry to tell you this.
Enjoy your religion.

reply to post by jimhinderer


I wonder what is driving this statement? Lies, mistruth, hate or racism.

BTW, it's spelled Qua'Ran get the spelling right (it is pronnounced Qwa - Ran and not Coe-Ran).

I was raised a muslim, now im not. Ive always had great common sense and logic. Islam provides none, so i moved on and now answer a higher calling..the god in me.

Originally posted by Alxandro
Ok, but what happens when the day finally comes for a global Jihad, and your pals command you to kill an infedel or die with one?

What will you do then?

Yes, dear OP. Please tell us exactly what you will do when this imaginary scencario that Alxandro just made up happens. If you do not answer in great detail about how you will respond when some imaginary thing happens, you are probably hiding something.

Further, what will you do when the Morloks demand you renounce your god?

What will you do when Biff goes back in time and gives himself that sports almanac?

If you are a real Muslim, you have these answers!

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

 

Broken record, you're trying too hard, sounds like you are trying to convince yourself or proove something to someone.
Ok, but what happens when the day finally comes for a global Jihad, and your pals command you to kill an infedel or die with one?

What will you do then?

His protocol is to turn that moron over to the authourities.

There will never be a global Jihad got it?

Why would this self respecting and upstanding American citizen associate with radicalia elements like this?

reply to post by Sinnthia


Laugh it up funny boy.

I'm not asking you to agree with me, just do me a favor,..

HOPE FOR THE BEST and EXPECT THE WORSE.

Btw, with regards to these "good" Muslims that the OP is trying so hard to be one of, they appear to be the ones that are targeted by CAIR.

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Laugh it up funny boy.

The parts I underlined are especially funny to me. It's ok. Who could guess "Sinnthia" would be a girl's name.

I'm not asking you to agree with me, just do me a favor,..

HOPE FOR THE BEST and EXPECT THE WORSE.

What "worse?" Can I be realistic about it or do I have to EXPECT any random idea you put out? I know Muslims. My life have never once been threatened by them. In fact, they seem to like me at least as much as I like them. I have never been exposed to any kind of Islamic extremism in any form. I did almost die from an infected animal bite once though. So should I expect mass extinction by animal bites too? Clearly that is more of a real threat in my life than whatever you made up.

What other imaginary "worse"s are you EXPECTING? Godzilla? War of the Worlds type scenario? How about that Cloverfield movie? I hear they are making a sequel. That sounds pretty "worse" to me right there. You EXPECTING any of that to happen either?

Btw, with regards to these "good" Muslims that the OP is trying so hard to be one of, they appear to be the ones that are targeted by CAIR.

BTW that random sentence really means very little.

reply to post by Alxandro


People are asking me questions, and I am answering, so how am I trying too hard???

And my "pals" don't command me, ever, thanks. Do your peers command you? Didn't think so.

__________________

Congregations are leaving, $ $ in donations are disappearing;
How convenient that Islam has become the 'threat' and a excuse
for the failings of others as . . . the catholic church, over-taxed
dysfunctional families, failing morals of society, greed in a deregulated
capitalist driven economy, and least but not last . . . the uncultured.
the cocooned, arm chair critics with nothing constructive to do
except for the likes of 24/7 fox tv.
^ the disgruntaled are just looking for a convenient subject to blame
for their own failings.
Pathetic lot.
You'd think they could do better than just blaming
Muslims for all their sorrow.


__________________

I think a large chunk of this Islamophobia can be laid at the feet of the money men.

They can see that Islam doesn't allow ursury (lending money for interest) so that's a massive chunk of profits down the drain. By smashing Islamic states, the way is paved for big corporations to leech billions out of the populations. There are lots of other ways that big corporations can't make money off people in these countries too, all of which will be open to them if they can "free" these people.

When you get right down to it, that can be the only reason.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
The government or culture does not condone women wearing whatever covering they choose to wear in Austrailia? That sounds quite oppressive. In the US we have no such cultural or government rules that dictate women may not wear as much clothing as they wish to. There are local laws about not wearing enough but not the other way around. Why would anyone advocate such oppression of women? Who get's to decide that a woman is TOO COVERED up?.

Your religious argument confuses me as well. I know a great number of Catholics that attend midnight mass on December 24th as part of their devotion to their religion. Because that is not specifically mentioned in the bible, they are wrong to do that?

I find it strange that you feel you should dictate how women should dress and how they should express their own religion. You do not see that as a bit anti-freedom?

I am sorry to hear that. Is this something you feel a great desire to do?
The burqa is the gown, not the facial cover that some cultures include in their "modest dress."


Says you? You get to decide what is and what is not part of how someone practices their own religion? Are you telling Jews to cut that Chanukah stuff out because the Torah never mentioned giving out socks for 8 days? Just curious.

I do not think that the women that chose to wear it are all oppressed or waiting to harm me but when a person willingly immigrates from one culture to another there are new rules, laws, ordinances, or simply cultural standards.

Who defines those? Are they written down? Is she required to go braless at Wal-mart and eat a biggy fries at least twice a week? What exactly is this woman free to do and what is she required to do as part of the forced assimilation you speak of? Is there a specific wardrobe? Dress code? Where are these things written out? I always heard women in Australia think the men there treat them like crap. I had no idea you decided what women could wear. Interesting.

I'm sure there has been discrimination toward women that wear the hijab, but I haven't heard of any sort of legal issues (similar to lawsuits I have heard of where the woman was asked or demanded to remove it for a drivers licenses or passport).

Why should there be a problem with a hijab?[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/14f01e271da1.jpg[/atsimg]
Can you see her face?

A Musliminah is completely capable of maintaining what her religion tells her is the modesty standard while living in western countries without having to wear tube tops and hot pants.

But she is NOT ALLOWED to wear a burqa if she wants to?

You should probably keep that in Austrailia. If I want to wrap myself in 100 bed sheets before I go to the corner store to get a new lighter, I have that right. I am sorry if you do not like it. You can wear a burqa and hijab while still exposing your face. [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/115fdbd135bf.jpg[/atsimg]Why should you get to tell any women they may not dress this way?

edit on 10-3-2011 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)

Well, I do not live in Australia, I think I mentioned that somewhere, well if not in any event I do not live there, I live in Illinois, USA. I don't think it is a matter of a woman not being able to wear what she wants and being oppressed, it is a matter of safety. A person can not be identified, the same reason why a person can not wear a ski mask into a store, it's just that simple.

My point with the religious requirement was that it isn't one and therefore is not protected by the freedom of religion. A hijab is and when a woman wears it, she is able to be identified, no problem there.

The burqa is not the gown, the gown that many women wear over their street clothes, while they are in the street is a thobe (not sure of the transliterated spelling there and that's what we call it in my area). The burqa includes a piece with a meshish covering over the eyes and the face is not visible at all, two different things.

No I have desire to run around in a mask everyday, so I do not feel infringed upon in any way.

The item is not required by the Quran, it really is that simple. According to the Quran a woman is to be covered, except for her face, hands, and feet (note hair is to be covered) if one desires to uphold the Islamic standard of modesty (source Muslim family). It isn't something that needs to be interpreted it's laid out right there. No, I don't care if Jews hand out gifts and I don't care if Muslims had them out at the end of Ramadan either. My sole objection to the garment is that the person is not identifiable, that's it.

It could be a highly religious woman under the garments, or it could be a crazy white guy serial killer/rapist/most evil being one could imagine. My issue is only that a person needs to be able to be identified, and the garments specifically make that impossible. Note: just once more for clarification, that does not include the hijab all hijabs have an open face.

Originally posted by searching4truth
Well, I do not live in Australia, I think I mentioned that somewhere, well if not in any event I do not live there, I live in Illinois, USA.

Here is exactly what I replied to.

Originally posted by searching4truth
Therefore, when someone immigrates to Australia or anywhere else where the government or culture does not condone such a covering there is no religious justification.

I am not sure why you are discussing Australia any more than you are I guess.

I don't think it is a matter of a woman not being able to wear what she wants and being oppressed, it is a matter of safety. A person can not be identified, the same reason why a person can not wear a ski mask into a store, it's just that simple.

No, it is actually not that simple at all. You cannot see the faces of the women in the pictures I provided? Are you LOOKING? I do not recall advocating ski masks for anyone. I am not sure there are many women out there dying to wear ski masks around town. Maybe making up arguments is a good way to try and win them?

My point with the religious requirement was that it isn't one and therefore is not protected by the freedom of religion.

Says who? You now define what is and what is not part of someone else's religion? How did you come to this position of power over all religions? What religion might you be?

A hijab is and when a woman wears it, she is able to be identified, no problem there.

Just like with a burqa. Your argument about ski masks is cute though.

The burqa is not the gown, the gown that many women wear over their street clothes, while they are in the street is a thobe (not sure of the transliterated spelling there and that's what we call it in my area). The burqa includes a piece with a meshish covering over the eyes and the face is not visible at all, two different things.

You might want to inform the Muslims that designed the burqa pictured above. You seem to be thinking of a Niqab. Not the same thing.

No I have desire to run around in a mask everyday, so I do not feel infringed upon in any way.

Ah, the mask again. Keep trying to toss that in there and hope it sticks. I never even advocated the freedom to wear masks but if it is all just about personal proclivities then I have no desire to run around in overalls. Shall I try to have them outlawed? I mean, I do not want to wear them, so why should anyone get to. That is your argument.

The item is not required by the Quran, it really is that simple.

So what? Find me one religion that ONLY incoroporates things strictly outlined in their holy book. You cannot say that for any of the world's major religions so why would you single out Islam to make that an issue with?

According to the Quran a woman is to be covered, except for her face, hands, and feet (note hair is to be covered) if one desires to uphold the Islamic standard of modesty (source Muslim family).

You mean exactly like wearing a burqa and hijab? I think you just killed your own argument.

It isn't something that needs to be interpreted it's laid out right there.

You have been saying it is not in there. Now it is not only in there, it is clear as a bell?

No, I don't care if Jews hand out gifts and I don't care if Muslims had them out at the end of Ramadan either. My sole objection to the garment is that the person is not identifiable, that's it.

But but...its not in their holy book. So they can hand out gifts as part of their religion, even if it is not in their book. But they cannot dress a certain way as part of their religion because it is not in their book. That is an interesting argument. You should really pick an argument and stick to it because these contratdicting points you make are like running on a treadmill to catch up.

Your sole objection is ignorant and uninformed. There is no reason for the burqa or hijab to cover the face. So that argument fails. Please see the pictures again if visual aids help.

Now that you understand that you can see those women's faces, you are going to have to try a different tactic to explain to me how you want to force women to dress a certain way because they are free to do so.

It could be a highly religious woman under the garments, or it could be a crazy white guy serial killer/rapist/most evil being one could imagine.

Hey, that 115 pound person with feminine cheek bones looks like a serial killer! And we all know serial killers get dressed up, go out, and just attack people in public places. That happens all the time.

Ever been to a ski mountain? Nothing but potential serial killers and rapists everywhere. Skiing needs to be outlawed for our freedom.

It could be a farmer in those overalls. Or it could be a Israili freedom fighter, planned parenthood bomber, political extremist, serial killer, rapist, jerk, etc. People could be lots of things. The idea that a woman is wearing something covering almost all of her body scares you? You must havea huge problem with Amish and many Mormon sects then, no? Ever seen how they dress? They could be hiding anything under all that.

My issue is only that a person needs to be able to be identified, and the garments specifically make that impossible.

No, they do not. A ski mask might. A naqib might. Not the ones you are hung up on. I even gave you pictures.

Note: just once more for clarification, that does not include the hijab all hijabs have an open face.

You are the one bringing up hijabs and Australia so forgive me for responding to that.

reply to post by SprocketUK


Nonsense, monetary concerns doesn't just come from Islam, and even if you agree with fractional reserve system, it doesn't mean your Islamophobic.

I'm Islamophobic, i won't deny it. I don't offend or attack muslims in the street but i think the core ideology of this cult is evil and wicked. It stinks of a totalitarian edict, much like Christianity, but a lot more militant - Look at the cults in the middle east, look at the radicals forming in the UK, look at the manifestoes.

Feel free to "respect" this awful awful cult. I will oppose you though, as will many others.

reply to post by searching4truth


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If you want to argue about a woman's right to wear the Niqab[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2aa97e9f0ca2.jpg[/atsimg] then I cannot help you. I am not familiar with any women of any religion that are arguing for their right to wear one. If there are, perhaps that is there fight to take up.

Ski masks are not exactly uncommon here. It gets cold in winter. I am also keenly aware that there is a sign posted at the corner store asking that you remove all face coverings before entering the store. As an American, I feel I have the right to wear a ski mask and decide NOT to shop there. I am not going to try to force them to service me under my conditions in their store. Likewise, none of you can approach me in my yard and demand I remove my ski mask.

I was never and will not be arguing in favor of wearing masks. That is not a fight I care to take up. I presetned a Muslim woman's stance on why she chooses to wear a burqa. You have made your case that becasue you do not know what a burqa is, women should not be free to wear them. That is not the America I want to brag about being from and it is certainly not the America we should be pushing on other people.

reply to post by Sinnthia


It derives from core ideology in Islam; arrogant, proud Muslim men who wish to own and objectify their women. They don't want any other man looking at them, it comes from jelousy.

I see Muslim couples in my home city, the women in the burka at the back pushing the child in the pram.....The man leading in front like the owner.

The fact that their are "fasionable" Islamic clothes now still doesn't detract from how and why the burka originally came to be, it comes from Islamics objectivism of the female. In the QuRan the women is compared to a domesticated animal. Don't believe me? Do your own research.

I'll say it again, the KoRan is evil, wicked and morally reprehensible.