I'm a muslim. I'm not violent/radical. Tell me I'm lying!

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

Thank you for your response.

I feel the problem in what are called "muslim countries" is that those muslims who are over there, but are peaceful and truly trying to live Islam as a spiritual path, and not a twisted, ungodly political system, are scared. They have to deal with threats of execution because the salafi regime doesn't like to be disagreed with and threatens ANYBODY with death, whether muslim or not. They will call a muslim non muslim because they feel they are the "champions of Islam" when in fact, they are the modern day parallel to the 7th century Kharijites which were a tribe who operated under the guise of Islam, but didn't do ANYTHING Islamic.

I can understand people living under this blanket of the threat of death not speaking out. It takes a certain individual to stare death in the face to speak out for what's correct.

Somehow I made a double post. I preserved the one that comes after this one.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

Thank you for your response.

I feel the problem in what are called "muslim countries" is that those muslims who are over there, but are peaceful and truly trying to live Islam as a spiritual path, and not a twisted, ungodly political system, are scared. They have to deal with threats of execution because the salafi regime doesn't like to be disagreed with and threatens ANYBODY with death, whether muslim or not. They will call a muslim non muslim because they feel they are the "champions of Islam" when in fact, they are the modern day parallel to the 7th century Kharijites which were a tribe who operated under the guise of Islam, but didn't do ANYTHING Islamic.

I can understand people living under this blanket of the threat of death not speaking out. It takes a certain individual to stare death in the face to speak out for what's correct.

I for one do support our efforts to remove Saddam and to bring peace and order over there in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere. I think part of the reason the wars over there have been so brutal is because of hte brainwashing. I agree that there's oppression, but the real reason I support these combat efforts is to remove the regime, not to free the people. If freedom were the only reason I support it, then I'd be ignoring the grip the leadership has on its people. The leadership will brainwash many of the people so sometimes you free the people only to have them take back the country and repeat the whole cycle again. So when you go into these countries trying to bring law and order to a broken leadership you have to tread carefully in full knowledge that helping them might not make the situation any better until the people themselves can either overcome the brainwashing or can taste freedom and favor it over blind faith. This is the reason I wish more tolerant civil people like you were over there making waves.

Sadly all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the bunch, and since there seem to be hundreds of thousands of bad apples I can sleep well at night knowing the Western and Eastern super powers are pummeling the threat. Honestly I prefer counter terrorism, stiffer immigration laws, better coast/border security, over the trillions of dollars of debt through endless wars. Now saying that, I've met religious Muslims that were courteous and friendly. Would I ever hang out with them on the reg?.... naaaa. Does that make me a racist? naaaa.

reply to post by jonnywhite



Well according to half the people on this thread, I'm putting on a front, to make Islam look "alright".

reply to post by Codered88


Your opinion is respected by me.

Anybody should believe whatever they want. To discriminate against anybody for any reason is reflection on your own stupidity.
Unfortunately the few do reflect on the many. Some terrorists reporting to be Muslim do reflect badly on the rest, because of media reporting on only the exciting things.
What’s gonna get reported, a terrorist bombing, or a group of peaceful Muslims trying to help another group, be it Muslim or not. But don’t lie down because of it. Use your collective voices to educate and enlighten others. Bad people win when the good keep silent.
Any religion can be manipulated by someone and there are always others who will join, but that will always happen there are crazies everywhere.
I am not a religious person, but don’t care if you are and I tend to ask questions of people who are.
No matter what you believe education is the answer to everything.
As long as a parson’s faith stresses Pease and harmony I find no problem. Don’t know of anybody being killed because some religion wanted to feed, clothe and educate them.
If there is a god, some of these so called religious leaders are in for one hell of a surprise.
I like Buda, he pretty much says, if you don’t try to harm anybody help when you can and try to enlighten yourself (education) you will move on. Can’t say he’s right, but sounds good to me. If God is waiting for us then I don’t think it matters what you believe in but what you do. God or not, once you are gone, you are judged by the people who are left behind, perhaps by those that go before you as well.
Peace be with all

Never once in my life I had the need of a God. Religion is a foreign concept to me. The system to which I guide myself is the one given to me by my parents. I respect ALL life ( if you’re a spider in my apartment you won’t get squashed),I help everyone I think it needs help and I don’t lie unless I have a very strong reason to do so. I don’t know what I am from this point of view, neither a “tree hugger” nor an atheist…just a human being. I have no idea what racism is, that was not part of my early programming.

All of the above means that I have no prejudice towards religion, yours or any other, or against any fellow human beings, but this is how I see it:

I agree with previous posters: your leaders promote violence; therefore, you are part of a group viewed badly by the western society. If you feel the need to be part of the group, maybe a change is necessary.
If you think about it on a simplistic way, is the same like choosing your friends or a work place. If you don’t agree with what they do or how they are, why be part of it ?
YOU are not going to change the group.

On another hand nothing changed since the dawn of time. Divide and impere is the word of the day. We are bombarded with news about extremists so we can all hate each other. It’s easier this way. Why do you even try to change people’s minds?

If it’s true that you are just a normal individual following his belief system, follow it and never mind what the others are saying. Don’t try to convince anyone of the validity of your views. I thought that religion is a choice of each individual, not something that needs to be promoted and pushed onto others.

Being part of a group means to be viewed as part of that group, and not separate of it. I always make sure that I agree with EVERYTHING before joining any sort of association.

I wish you luck, I think it is commendable what you are trying to do, even though logically doesn’t make much sense.

Originally posted by Bursuc
Never once in my life I had the need of a God. Religion is a foreign concept to me. The system to which I guide myself is the one given to me by my parents. I respect ALL life ( if you’re a spider in my apartment you won’t get squashed),I help everyone I think it needs help and I don’t lie unless I have a very strong reason to do so. I don’t know what I am from this point of view, neither a “tree hugger” nor an atheist…just a human being. I have no idea what racism is, that was not part of my early programming.

All of the above means that I have no prejudice towards religion, yours or any other, or against any fellow human beings, but this is how I see it:

I agree with previous posters: your leaders promote violence; therefore, you are part of a group viewed badly by the western society. If you feel the need to be part of the group, maybe a change is necessary.
If you think about it on a simplistic way, is the same like choosing your friends or a work place. If you don’t agree with what they do or how they are, why be part of it ?
YOU are not going to change the group.

On another hand nothing changed since the dawn of time. Divide and impere is the word of the day. We are bombarded with news about extremists so we can all hate each other. It’s easier this way. Why do you even try to change people’s minds?

If it’s true that you are just a normal individual following his belief system, follow it and never mind what the others are saying. Don’t try to convince anyone of the validity of your views. I thought that religion is a choice of each individual, not something that needs to be promoted and pushed onto others.

Being part of a group means to be viewed as part of that group, and not separate of it. I always make sure that I agree with EVERYTHING before joining any sort of association.

I wish you luck, I think it is commendable what you are trying to do, even though logically doesn’t make much sense.

Much respect to you however there is one MAJOR flaw in your statement.

Who are "my leaders"? I have no "leaders".
There is no clergy in Islam.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
I'm so so so sick and tired of people, ESPECIALLY on ATS with all of their "where are the moderate muslims" and "why don't peaceful muslims speak out against radical Islam", and when I'm right here in your face, and when I respond to your request for a voice, you tell me I'm LYING TO PROTECT MY FAITH! You don't want a muslim to speak out against radicals, you just want another muslim CO-SIGNING THEIR ACTIONS! I'm considering leaving ATS because for a community of open minded people, there are surely a LOT of close minded individuals here. And based on the amount of stars and flags THEY get I'd say the number keeps growing. I OPPOSE RADICALS OF ANY FAITH. I oppose violence, especially violence in the name of God. Now, lets see how many people say I'm lying...

PeaceLoveLight

How about instead of starting a thread hating on those that don't believe you, you prove it to them by starting a thread DENOUNCING JIHAD and MUSLIM EXTREMIST ?

here is how your thread should be read:

I

(insert full name here)

Being a practicing Muslim, hereby make this public statement DENOUNCING JIHAD and MUSLIM EXTREMIST, they are not part of my belief system and I want them out of my religion because they have different beliefs than me, my friends and my family

Go on, I dare you to start that thread tough guy.
We'll just sit back and watch as your head gets swiftly separated from your neck

reply to post by Scoriada


OH, I just read your post wrong so never mind what I had here previously.

reply to post by Scoriada


Here you are >> thread

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Who are "my leaders"? I have no "leaders".
There is no clergy in Islam.

You know what I wanted to say, we're talking semantics here.

Ok, i apologize for my ignorance, did not know there is no "official" clergy, but the extremist groups are extremely violent. At least i think we can agree on this point, and that is why a lot of people "hate" Islam. And yes, I know, each religion has extremists; let’s not go down that way.

Your posts are intelligent and I believe that you are a decent person trying his best to fight for what he believes who I capable of having a real dialogue.

A while ago I was watching the documentary “The Power of Nightmares” produced by the BBC.
Now, maybe they are biased, but there was one thing that I’ve learned there: even the moderate Muslims come under fire from their own extremists, and get killed and maimed pretty much the same like the “infidels”.
This is why I said what I said: I respect the fact that you try to fight for what you believe is important to you but your “group” (for lack of a better word) does not support you in your fight.

You know what I think is really sad? The very existence of the religious concept.
When and (if) we will be able to liberate ourselves from it, I could stay beside you and all others from anywhere on this planet and discuss important things, create, protect life, find solutions, and have fun once I a while.

Originally posted by primus2012
If I call you a liar, are you going to get violent and/or radical? Doesn't Islam teach that you can lie in order to save your hide?

Doesn't christianity teach that it's OK to have slaves?

back off, bigot

Iran’s Ahl al-Bait World Assembly condemns a recent fatwa (religious decree) issued by Saudi Arabia's top religious official
who has called for destruction of all churches on the Arabian Peninsula.


The latest fatwa by Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdulaziz Al al-Shaikh came in the context of a response to a Kuwaiti civil society
organization that proposed for the new Kuwaiti constitution, approved by parliament last week, a new article that would forbid
the building of new churches in the country.

“First of all, Wahhabi muftis are not representing Islam. The world should know that the religion which is now being publicized
in Saudi Arabia is not true Islam,” Ahl al-Bait World Assembly said in a statement published by Ahl al-Bait News Agency (ABNA)
on Tuesday.

The statement added that the content of the new fatwa was against the commands of God as well as the tradition of Prophet of
Islam Muhammad (PBUH) and his descendants and is, therefore, rejected not only by Shias, but also by Sunni Muslims.

Ahl al-Bait World Assembly noted that throughout its history, Islam has coexisted with Christians and Jews and such a fatwa
has never been issued by the Prophet of Islam (PBUH), his progeny, and subsequent Muslim caliphs.

The statement added that apart from the Prophet of Islam (PBUH), his companions and their descendants, no Muslim scholar has
ever issued such a fatwa during the past 1,400 years.

“Therefore, the grand mufti of Wahhabis has issued a fatwa which has no precedence in [Islamic] jurisprudential circles…and
has never been issued by great scientific centers of Muslims…,” it said.

The Assembly stated that the fatwa is also a clear intervention in the internal affairs of other Muslim countries because the
Saudi mufti has not confined his fatwa to Saudi borders but has included the whole Arabian Peninsula.

The Assembly also slammed the “deadly silence” of Muslim scholars in the face of such fatwas which distort the image of Islam.

“Aren’t scholars of various Islamic sects in Egypt, Iraq, Tunisia, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, the Arabian Peninsula and other parts
of the world supposed to react to such unprecedented fatwas which depict a distorted picture of Islam in the world?” it asked.

The Assembly criticized international human rights organizations as well as Western and Christian governments for their support
of Wahhabi terrorists saying, “If you had not offered various forms of support to Wahhabi and Takfiri terrorists when they
martyred Muslims in Iraq, Pakistan and Iran, today you would not be attacked in this manner.''

the above is gleaned from presstv website.

i can understand why muslims do not react to what i consider firebrand rant. it seems the wahhabi/salafist et al will take a particular interest in any individual who goes against their grain and target them with their version of hell on earth. keeping ones head below the mist is a wise action when there are muftis willing to issue statements geared towards inevitable bloodshed.

regards fakedirt.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


Did you know, all junk are rested here? lol , bro i'm a muslim ,all you need is bit of sense of humour.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

That is a good and brave thing to do, Everyone one should live in peace and harmony. We did not have these problems during the 60s or 70s. It is my believe that moderates should be heard and not silenced by violence. The silent majority have to be heard otherwise the radicals would think that silence is consent. I hope you will stay and contribute your views at ATS. We need views from all spectrum of people/society to make the threads a wonderful read.