The Threat - Aliens are Evil

reply to post by WhizPhiz

Maybe if you bothered to research some abductions, you would understand the aliens DO always manipulate memories and hide the event deep in their head. Conscious memories of abductions are dangerous because they are almost certainly tainted with screen memories and confabulation. That's not to say many abductees can't remember fragments of their experience, it's just safer and easier to uncover the whole event under hypnosis.

How do you know any of this? There's about 5 people following the thread and they'd appreciate sources.

I'm criticizing Carol for trying to tell them how to do their job when she's not even a psychiatrist/psychologists.

Hopkins is an artist. Jacobs is an historian.

The simple facts are, if you believe in abductions (which a vast amount of qualified psychologists actually do), then you'd have to be blind to not see the trend of reproductive related experiments taking place on the abductees. Jacobs has simply reached the natural conclusion they are carrying out some sort of hybrid program, and I would fully agree.

A 'vast amount qualified psychologists?' I bet you can't name one qualified psychologist who's name doesn't begin with M and end in ack.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz

The simple facts are, if you believe in abductions (which a vast amount of qualified psychologists actually do),

This is news to me, where can I verify this?

then you'd have to be blind to not see the trend of reproductive related experiments taking place on the abductees.

Do you know what a meme is?

reply to post by WhizPhiz


Are you familiar with the Emma Woods case? Her site has quite a few audio recordings of her conversations and sessions with David Jacobs. On the page I linked to there is an interesting audio clip where he explains to her over the phone that he has been receiving instant messages from hybrids and how they have threatened him and are "coming for him." For some reason they can't seem to find his where-abouts although I'm sure a pure-bred human of reasonable intellect could locate his place of work.

Did you know that he hypnotized Emma to believe she had multiple personality disorder and needed to take medication for it [mp3] as a screen memory so the aliens wouldn't know he was actually attempting to recover abduction memories? To me this seems completely unethical and an obvious case of gross misconduct.

Also according to her testimony before accepting her as a research subject Jacobs and Bud Hopkins sent her a written questionnaire which she filled out and returned to them to which they responding by saying that she had been abducted by aliens and would need hypnosis to investigate it.

While I'm sure that he does believe in aliens and abductions from this evidence, he isn't approaching his research subjects with objectivity so no matter what his conclusions are and no matter how much he tries to test their suggestibility during hypnosis, he and the research subject have already agreed that the hypnosis is going to reveal hidden memories of alien abductions.

EDIT: [mp3 of Emma Woods testimony]

reply to post by Kandinsky


Sorry for my delayed response, I was researching some abduction accounts posted on ATS so that we could have a secondary source of accounts to directly call upon.

Maybe if you bothered to research some abductions, you would understand the aliens DO always manipulate memories and hide the event deep in their head. Conscious memories of abductions are dangerous because they are almost certainly tainted with screen memories and confabulation. That's not to say many abductees can't remember fragments of their experience, it's just safer and easier to uncover the whole event under hypnosis.

How do you know any of this? There's about 5 people following the thread and they'd appreciate sources.

It doesn't take a genius to work this one out. Almost no one can remember their abductions properly, they either remember bits and pieces of it, or stange moments just before and after the encounters. Everything about an abudction suggests the aliens can easily manipulate a persons mind.

Than the first one leans forward and over my face and looks deep into my eyes as I look back into its eyes. I hear a voice in my head as if some one speaks but not this which is in front of me. I hear "You are a by product of a botched abortion". I look up to the ceiling and back into its eyes and say nothing as it continues to gaze into my eyes.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How many times have you heard that, of aliens staring into peoples eyes and/or talking to them telepathically? I think it's almost certain if abductions are real, the aliens are at least smart enough to hide the event from the persons conscious mind.

This normally happened at night and i would miss some time.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Missing time is common amongst almost all abductions, it is clear indicator conscious memories have been purposely hidden or removed from a persons mind. This person also talks about typical Greys and floating through walls, and that this happened since he can remember. I would say he is a real abductee.

A 'vast amount qualified psychologists?' I bet you can't name one qualified psychologist who's name doesn't begin with M and end in ack.

Ok, "vast" was a bad word to use, but there are some. I recently learnt about a man called Derrel Sims. He has received certifications as a Hypnotherapist, a Master Hypnotist, a Medical Hypnotherapist, a Hypno-anesthesia Therapist and a Master Practitioner in Neurolinguistic Programming. He was also previously in the CIA, some suspect he was involved with MK ULTRA. This thread is related to him: www.abovetopsecret.com...


reply to post by cripmeister

Do you know what a meme is?

Hah, that's quite funny. Abductees can be found all around the world, I doubt your stupid "meme" theory really holds up against any sort of serious scrutiny, I'm not even going to waste me time explaining the flaws in such a pathetic and last hope effort to explain away some of these trends. Take this ATS abduction account for instance, you really think this disturbing stuff becomes some sort of meme? I don't even know what to say.

the third woman took a needle and injected it into my abdomen and withdrew my eggs, so they took my eggs, when they were done , they told me that I was no longer going to have babies anymore, they said I could leave.

---

I didn't understand what I was doing there, one of them reached down and pulled a fetus still in it's sack out of me, and they showed me the baby, (okay I'll stop, I have to say that during this time i was 3 weeks late with my period, how I even got pregnant is beyond me because my husband was fixed and no stuf was getting through)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These cases are so damn clear cut (she's describing two different cases there), it makes absolutely perfect sense according to everything Jacobs has said, and this women claims these abductions took place before she even started researching UFO's and Aliens, these events prompted her to start research:

After that incident I styarted looking up aliens, and the whole abduction thing, and i realized I wasn't alone with this, many women had their babies taken from them for hybrid purposes, i was shocked, terrified and upset. I was made fun of, and ridiculed by people who didn't know me, they said for me to stop watching the x-files, and i have to admit I am not an x-file girl, i can't stand that show, in fact before this I wasn't interested in aliens at all!

How about if the abductee is around 4 years old? I found this post extremely fascinating:

about 6-8 months ago my daughter started waking up in the middle of the night screaming. it seemed like bad dreams, and probably was. then she started freaking out. in one instance she was holding her leg and told me that someone was holding it. i went by her and then she said it stopped. another time she made a screech sound and was staring into the kitchen. she said someone was in our kitchen, and she was staring at something. i thought maybe a ghost. so far, either bad dreams and or ghosts, i think.

Nothing really that out of the ordinary right.

then one day she was telling me about the boy again, and how he had grabbed her hand and it made her really scared. so then it hit me, ask the right questions. so the first thing i asked her was what color skin did the boy have? she said gray. my next question was what color eyes does the boy have. she told me "all black." okay now i start to worry, because how many boys do you know with gray skin and "all black" eyes? so i asked her about the hand grabbing. she said that he grabs her hand and takes her through the wall into a "gray" (a gray/silver ship?) she says "gray" for both gray and silver when describing cars, FYI. then i drew four pictures. one was a dog's head, one was a little boy's face, one was a typical grey's face, and the last was a telletubby face. i asked if any of them looked like the "boy" and right away she looked at the grey and then a couple seconds pointed at it and said "there's boy." okay so that was enough, i could tell it was making her a bit uncomfortable.

Grey skin, black eyes, floating through walls. You people can say what ever you like, any rational person can see the truth here.

she also adds that there are more than one boy, and they are holding her 1 1/2 year old brothers hand, and MINE as we all go through the wall. i asked her about where she goes. she said a room with a table and blue toys. i asked about my son and i and she says we are in a room (not sure if the same room or not) as well. i then ask about the "gray" again, trying to figure out if it is indeed a ship or not. she changes the subject and tells me that she doesnt like the boy, and that she doesnt like the "doctor" either.

It appears, as expected and as is normally the case, the aliens aren't just abducting the children, and I would hazard a guess the father telling this story has been abducted long before his daughter ever was. Also commonly described is the "doctor" or "specialist", he leads the operation and instructs the smaller Greys (he/she is is often described as a tall type grey) A table (probably an operation table) in the middle of the room is also very common.

on a side note, my sister and her two boys also get abducted. i believe my mom as well, but she wont talk about it. i emailed a few abduction researchers, but have not heard back yet. so anyways, there it is. i will update this thread if any new information comes along. its just a little tough because my daughter is so young. she talks pretty well for her age, and knows enough words to tell me what she has. i just wish she had the words to describe the ship. i dont want to tell her its a ship, so its tough but i will continue to work with her. anyone else have kids who talk about something like this?

He even thinks his mom is an abductee, it just goes to show they don't randomly pick people. They have a very structured system that dictates who they abduct and how often. If you are an abductee, I urge you not to have children.

reply to post by goatfish


He induced split personality disorder in her? Well you have to give him credit, the CIA took a while to effectively induce split personality disorder in people, he must have some skill. I'm joking obviously, but I think you'll find nearly every researcher involved in this field has done something crazy and hurt their reputation a little bit some where a long the line. Why don't you stop trying to insult his character and try debating the actual subject at hand and show us how the conclusions reached by Jacobs are faulty. Clearly some people are going to be spouting fantasies, but you can't just discount all abduction simply because of that, in fact it has been determined the majority of abductees are perfectly sane:

When it comes to people who believe they've been abducted by space aliens, the two camps agree on only one thing: "These people are almost never psychotic," says McNally. "They're not lying. But Mack entertains a range of explanations that are farfetched at best."

source - cached page (psychologytoday seems to be down atm).

reply to post by WhizPhiz


I'm not insulting his character. I'm criticizing his methodology.

reply to post by goatfish

I'm criticizing his methodology.

Ok, fair enough. I agree he was out of line doing what he did, but once again it's hard to avoid doing crazy things when you're researching something so crazy. I know if I were in Jacobs position, and I had reached the same conclusions as him, I would be quite scared of my life possibly being taken by these aliens. I mean, they've done all this in the utmost of secrecy for so long, and along comes people like Jacobs to piece together all the bits of information from hundreds of abductees. That's a huge threat to their operations, and I find it completely understandable that he acted out on that fear at one point. However, I still don't dismiss all his other work and his conclusions simply because of that, every business has that unsatisfied customer. He is clearly onto something, in my opinion at least.

These space aliens are amazing. They can zip around from gazillions of miles away, bring a woman to ectasy just by looking into her eyes, but need a woman to bring off an old man so the "aliens" can collect his man juice.

The above is an actual account from this book.

Pur-lease, did IQ's and critical thinking take a nose dive recently.

Yes, Jacobs extracted the above from memory via hypnosis.
No, here be no aliens, as even human scientists can do better than this.

If these are aliens described in the book, they're scientic progress are a few decades behind humans.

reply to post by cromlech


Yes, it would seem the Aliens resort to more "natural" methods when their initial attempts at sperm extraction fail. You think they wouldn't do that? I would agree actually. Wouldn't there be a method that work work in all scenarios, like a needle in the sack? Owwww!

EDIT: Maybe they think that's too inhumane? They aren't evil after all!

I haven't read all the pages here, but just my 2cents worth.....the abductees who believe the alien abductors have an evil agenda, have been returned. They may ( and should) feel violated, and Im sorry they had that experience but as I said, they have been returned.
'Nuff said IMO.

reply to post by WhizPhiz


Firstly, when you copied and pasted the text, it came out in a very difficult to read format. When I've run into this problem, in posting on other forums, I took the time to edit it by hand to make it more readable. It would be an appreciated courtesy if you would do so in the future.

I think that there are likely many different kinds of aliens, with some being evil, some neutral, and some good. I also think the US government fakes aliens, UFOs and abductions for their own nefarious purposes. I believe some UFOs are organisms, like animals. This is my opinion based on a lifetime of studying the phenomenon. I may be wrong on any and all counts, except the one involving government. However, there is a huge amount of photographic evidence dating to the time of stereograms at least, and the eyewitness accounts seem to march back into prehistory. I don't believe that all these people were hallucinating, or that they all just made it up. I have never seen a UFO or alien, however I have seen some strange things.

Regarding the bad aliens, if you can find a copy of Trevor James Constable's book, "The Cosmic Pulse of Life",
several unfortunate incidents with military aircraft have occurred. One described in the book concerned a military aircraft with huge dents all over it, as though it was from being struck with a blunt object. It was just barely landed by a dying pilot who did not live long enough to tell what happened. The rest of the crew died in flight from wounds like shark bites. Fear of the unknown is often wise. It's a survival mechanism, and a good one. Similar stories crop up in Brad Steiger's books, I recall one which involved a giant jellyfish-like organism that attacked and ate another, smaller version of itself.

Another opinion I have is that many UFOs are demonic in nature. I can't know if there is a real difference between supernatural and alien non-human beings. It stands to reason that the phenomenon of evil would not be specific to humans alone, if there are other intelligent beings capable of space travel, some are probably evil. It also stands to reason that the evil ones would achieve positions of political power, just like they do here on Earth. Because those who are not evil and power-mad don't particularly care about having power.

Where does this leave us? I don't think we can hope to affect the outcome of any contact with aliens. If they can travel to the stars, their weapons of war would likely be capable of ending all life on earth. On the other hand, there is the story of Wilhelm Reich's war with UFOs, in which he seemed to be able to dematerialize them using ridiculously simple equipment.

I know the whole subject gives me the creeps, because of the attitude many humans have towards animals.

"What do you suppose animals think when we experiment on them?" - Progeny (1999)

Originally posted by annella.the abductees who believe the alien abductors have an evil agenda, have been returned. They may ( and should) feel violated, and Im sorry they had that experience but as I said, they have been returned.

How would we know who hasn't been returned? I've read the FBI refuses to keep track of missing children statistics. How many people go missing each year? Is it "a lot"? I think it is.

reply to post by annella

they have been returned

That doesn't negate the negative effect this subconscious trauma can cause people. You can paint it anyway you like, their methods of secrecy are suspect at minimum.

reply to post by grizzle2

Firstly, when you copied and pasted the text, it came out in a very difficult to read format. When I've run into this problem, in posting on other forums, I took the time to edit it by hand to make it more readable. It would be an appreciated courtesy if you would do so in the future.

I actually did format the pasted text quite a bit. I separated all the paragraphs as they should be, and I applied bolding to the headings. It is formatted essentially the same as in the book so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I think that there are likely many different kinds of aliens, with some being evil, some neutral, and some good. I also think the US government fakes aliens, UFOs and abductions for their own nefarious purposes. I believe some UFOs are organisms, like animals.

I completely agree there are "good" and "bad" aliens, the Greys are neutral if anything IMO. The hybrids however, posses human emotion, they can be nice or evil. I wouldn't doubt the Government has secret craft some what similar to UFO's (but a lot less advanced), and I guess they could be abducting people. A considerable amount of abductees do describe military type clothing, so I guess it's plausible. These would be one-time random abductions IMO, not like the Greys. As for some UFO's being living organisms, I also believe there's a good chance you're correct on that, but once again there's not enough info for me to make a conclusion.

reply to post by WhizPhiz


Quite a long quote there, WhizPhiz, is that your point, or what? In reality, calling ALL Aliens, Extraterrestrials, Beings from other Planets Evil is just like calling them all Demons, as some Christians are prone to do. I think it will be found that a great many ETs are a lot like we are, humanoid in appearance, and wearing clothing and speaking like human beings do. In fact, a Pleiadian Hybrid could be standing beside you in the store, and you would be none the wiser. Last year I am pretty sure I saw a Gray dressed like a punk teenager, with hoodie and baggies. I am not 100% certain that he was a Gray, but two gentlemen in a dark car were sure interested in him. Some of them wish to help us, but they cannot as long as our Air Force keeps shooting at them. Some of them like for many hundreds of Earth years, but can be killed, just like you and me. Now if you are talking about the Draco, I will agree that they are evil, for they are all about control of everything in their sector. Educate yourself, friend, and do not bunch different things all together like that.

reply to post by autowrench


Firstly, please just read some of my posts before you come in saying all aliens aren't evil. I never said that, and I believe nothing of the sort. I'm saying the main alien influence around Earth is clearly not very concerned about humans. They care about the Earth a lot more than us, which is completely understandable, though maybe if they weren't so suspiciously secretive they could do something to help more openly.

Some of them wish to help us, but they cannot as long as our Air Force keeps shooting at them.

The air force can't lay one finger on an alien craft, maybe in their wildest dreams it's possible. I don't doubt they may have achieved it once or twice (possibly resulting in cases like Roswell), but the aliens wouldn't be fooled thrice that easily.

Now if you are talking about the Draco, I will agree that they are evil

I've never really heard of them, what are they like vampire aliens or something? I'm kidding, but please don't say they are.

What kind of alien doctors are these, who need to induce trauma in hundreds of patients to collect a little blood, a few embryos?

Any doctor today can draw a cubic centimeter of blood without leaving a scar or a mark.

In vitro fertilization has reached a level such that the so-called genetic experiments allegedly performed aboard UFOs are ludicrous and decades behind human technology.

The ufonauts should go back to medical school.

What kind of psychologists are they, if any amateur hypnotist can readily uncover from the witness the details of an abduction that was supposed to be totally erased from his or her mind?

We have mind control drugs that ensure permanent, selective memory loss. Wouldn't smart extraterrestrials know as much?

The extraterrestrial theory is not good enough, because it is not strange enough to explain the facts.

reply to post by cromlech


Another thing to note, women that describe being brought to orgasm through the staring procedure (and there are quite a lot of them) say it's more of an internal thing, not a physical orgasm. Men also commonly describe some sort of tool that used to extract sperm, so it would seem the staring procedure isn't great at making a man physically ejaculate. But as to why they some times make a women pleasure the man in order to extract sperm - well I need to research how easily sperm can be extracted first. I actually suspect they have some sort of interest in sexual activities, but this is a really complex area of abductions to analyze - alien motives are hard to discern, along with the possibility of sexual abuse and false memories.

reply to post by grizzle2



To be honest, I think we probably need to look to our own race to answer that question.
Sad but true.

reply to post by cromlech

Any doctor today can draw a cubic centimeter of blood without leaving a scar or a mark.

I'm sure they can too. I would guess scars come from more intensive procedures.

In vitro fertilization has reached a level such that the so-called genetic experiments allegedly performed aboard UFOs are ludicrous and decades behind human technology.

The ufonauts should go back to medical school.

Can you expand on that, why are their methods apparently decades behind? Their procedures seem to take minutes, procedures that would take normal doctors possibly hours.

What kind of psychologists are they, if any amateur hypnotist can readily uncover from the witness the details of an abduction that was supposed to be totally erased from his or her mind?

We have mind control drugs that ensure permanent, selective memory loss. Wouldn't smart extraterrestrials know as much?

I'll let Jacobs explain his theory on that:

Current Hypotheses and Abductions

The abduction phenomenon has always been more secretive than the UFO-sighting
phenomenon. Researchers investigated UFO sightings for fourteen years before they
came upon an abduction case. Another twenty-five years elapsed before they understood
that abductions were enormously widespread and the central focus of the UFO
phenomenon.

When researchers first began to investigate abductions, they assumed that an abduction
was a one-time, adult-onset event. Abductions suggested curiosity rather than
manipulation on the part of the aliens. As abductees recalled fragments of events,
researchers decided that aliens were "studying" or "experimenting" on people. The
secretive aliens were finished with their examination of Earth's flora and fauna and had
turned their attention to studying humans.

As the number of abduction reports grew, many researchers adopted the ethical
noninterference argument and assumed that aliens conducted their study in secret in order
not to disrupt the subject's life. Memories of an abduction could be so traumatic that they
would negatively interfere with the abductee's psychological well-being. In addition,
researchers assumed the aliens gave abductees posthypnotic suggestions not to remember
an event so that it would be buried in the subject's unconscious.

Other researchers hypothesized that an abductee would not remember an abduction
because the natural defenses of the human brain repressed the traumatic event. The
human mind could not cope with the impossibility and terror of an alien abduction; rather
than confronting the horrendous events, the mind buried the memories deep within it and
only allowed tiny pieces to "bleed" through. Investigators had to use hypnosis to recover
these repressed memories.

The argument that aliens operate in secrecy in order not to disrupt abductees' lives might
have merit were it not for the fact that the disruption in their lives is enormous even
without conscious recollection of their abduction experiences. If the aliens were indeed
concerned about not causing personal disruption, they would not abduct people in the
first place, or, at the very least, not so often over the course of their lives.

The hypotheses that abductees repress memories to cope with the trauma of an abduction
also have evidential problems. The mechanisms of traumatic memory repression are
highly debatable, and even if the hypothesis is true, the frequency of abductions militates
against repression in every case. There are many abduction events that are not traumatic
and they, too, are not remembered. Furthermore, researchers have uncovered no reports
of posthypnotic procedures that aliens might use to "bury" the abduction event. If these
procedures existed, researchers would be seeing them during every abduction.

Although the exact neurology is not known, it is most likely that the aliens store the
abduction events directly in the abductee's long-term memory system, bypassing shortterm
memory and preventing the triggering mechanism that allows for its reconstitution.
Hypnosis restores the trigger that allows the memories to come forth. Reshma Kamal was
told that the reason the aliens do not "erase" the memories altogether is that there are
aspects of them that must be retained by abductees for future reference. Thus, the
memories are intact, but inaccessible through normal recall.19

For years, the abduction phenomenon has lain hidden under layers of direct and indirect
protection—societal beliefs, scientific hostility, incomplete conscious recall,
confabulation in hypnotically recalled testimony, and alien-induced memory
manipulation. Unlike sightings of UFOs, there are no radar traces, photographs, films, or
videotapes. The evidence is primarily anecdotal, with an occasional artifact. Only one
thing is certain: Whatever the reason for it, the alien secrecy strategy has been
enormously successful. Most people who have had a lifetime of abduction experiences
remain unaware of what has happened to them. They would deny as lunacy any
suggestion that they were involved with the abduction phenomenon, even if they had
been abducted just hours before.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
reply to post by annella

 

they have been returned

That doesn't negate the negative effect this subconscious trauma can cause people. You can paint it anyway you like, their methods of secrecy are suspect at minimum.

The negative effect goes without saying surely? I did allude to that.
As far as secrecy....Im pretty sure no one believes they are going to send abductees home with a thank you note or pay a hireage fee. Everything about ' them' is secret. Hell...we are constantly debating whether or not they even exist!
I so feel for anyone who has gone through an abduction, but in the end they are here to tell the story.