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From what I'm reading, this women doesn't actually deny the abduction phenomena, she just thinks Jacobs and her ex are caught up in some delusional fantasy land and don't run their operations properly. Well, that's a ridiculous argument IMO, Jacobs is clearly a very intelligent man. There aren't many ways a person can interpret the transcripts and audio recordings presented by Jacobs, it's quite clear alien activity is taking place. The only "rational" answer is that they were leading the subjects and fueling their delusions. But I see very little evidence of that happening, but most importantly, I doubt the majority of hypnotists just so happen to "influence" confabulated memories that are so frighteningly similar in detail. I find there's a point where coincidence no longer seems like a "rational" explanation.
These investigators believe so completely in the reality of their own interpretation of these experiences that they have lost touch with both consensus reality and the everyday ethics of human behavior that go along with it
the idea that aliens are on Earth for our benefit
The Threat - Aliens are Evil
some New Age abductees have 'sought assistance from a competent hypnotist,
one who is well-versed in the abduction phenomenon. As a result, they remember events
that do not seem so positive.
He doesn't just make completely baseless statement, he always has a deep line of thought behind everything he says and the conclusions he has reached.
Originally posted by Bonified Ween
ALL"Aliens" are evil? Thread fail. As above so below. There is good and bad wherever you go. Don't proclaim that ALLare evil. If they were, why didn't they just deal with us a long time ago?
So she's a biomedical scientist? Oooh, that explains it. All the pieces are now coming together. She clearly has very little knowledge related to psychology and not once does she examine the so called faults Jacobs or Hopkins methods in detail.
Originally posted by WhizPhiz
reply to post by Bonified Ween
Please quote me saying all aliens evil. Did I say that? Because I don't think that.
ALL"Aliens" are evil?
edit on 25-2-2011 by WhizPhiz because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by WhizPhiz
... it's very easy to tell a genuine account when you know some crucial facts about their operations.
Rapid industrialization and technological development in the Western cultures apparently led to further restructuring of the phenomenon's frames of reference. The inundation of airships in 1896-97 marked the beginning of the modern UFO phase. Although the phenomenon experimented with the "outer space" frame of reference as early as 1866, it did not attempt to advance this concept on a worldwide scale until 1946. By 1950, it had, in a mere four years, firmly established the extraterrestrial visitants idea as a humanly acceptable frame of reference for the flying objects and manipulations.
Maybe if you bothered to research some abductions, you would understand the aliens DO always manipulate memories and hide the event deep in their head. Conscious memories of abductions are dangerous because they are almost certainly tainted with screen memories and confabulation. That's not to say many abductees can't remember fragments of their experience, it's just safer and easier to uncover the whole event under hypnosis.
In his own words, he won't accept therapists who don't share his view. How does this effect the outcome of regression? He only accepts people with an abduction narrative in place, subject awareness and when/if they don't reveal what he wants...he calls it 'screen memory.' In his own words, he doesn't accept conscious recall and prefers the hypnotic regression route.
I'm criticizing Carol for trying to tell them how to do their job when she's not even a psychiatrist/psychologist. At leat Jacobs clearly knows something about psychology, and he goes to great lengths to examine and avoid confabulated memories. I believe some of his patients are telling him fantasies, and that's unavoidable, you're always going to get crazy people. And their stories are often easier to pick out as false. But there's a clear portion of the abductees that are describing alien activity. Other psychiatrists/psychologists simply can't ever admit that's the truth, they can't handle that thought IMO, they pin it down to other factors such as stated on Jacobs Wikipedia page: "sightings and experiences could be attributed to mistaken identity and faulty memory.". Of course Jacobs is going to disagree with their hypothesis, he has reached informed decisions based on his research, and so have many others. The simple facts are, if you believe in abductions (which a vast amount of qualified psychologists actually do), then you'd have to be blind to not see the trend of reproductive related experiments taking place on the abductees. Jacobs has simply reached the natural conclusion they are carrying out some sort of hybrid program, and I would fully agree.
You're criticising Carol Rainey for not being a psychologist? You're dismissing her informed opinion and experience on those grounds?!
Jacobs is a historian.
Hopkins is an artist
*ultra-freak-out* I'm not saying that...sheesh.
Considering how vast the universe is, how can you say that ALL extraterrestrials are violent?
False Memory Syndrome
Critics of the abduction phenomenon charge that abductees, often with the
encouragement of researchers, unknowingly concoct abduction fantasies. That people can
have false memories is beyond doubt. Given certain circumstances, they can, for
example, invent complex accounts of sexual and physical abuse. The False Memory
Syndrome Foundation in Philadelphia is filled with members who have been unfairly
accused of sexual abuse.
False memories of abuse occur when people remember events, usually as children, that
did not happen. Nevertheless, the details the victims relate can be extraordinary. They
relive their experiences with the emotional impact of real events. Some remember Satanic
cults that terrorized them and even killed babies in human sacrifice rituals. When the
"victims" are confronted with facts (investigators have not found dead babies; no babies
were reported missing at the time and place of the ritual abuse cases), they angrily
provide explanations—such as that the mothers themselves were Satanists who gave up
their babies for sacrificial purposes and did not report them missing. People can convey
false memories with such conviction and sincerity that they have fooled many
investigators. Uncovering false memories of sexual abuse can also lead to major
emotional upheavals in people's lives. Families are torn apart, siblings are estranged,
lawsuits are instituted, innocent people are unjustly accused and even jailed.
Uncovering false memories is usually facilitated by a therapist who is convinced that a
client has been sexually abused (or whatever abuse the false memory recounts), even
though the client has no memory of it. Through insistent persuasion, the therapist
inculcates the idea into his client that all his emotional problems stem from the repression
of the memory of some earlier trauma. The therapist might tell the client that if he thinks
hard enough, he will remember the traumatic event. Healing can only begin, the therapist
says, after the memories begin to flow. Not remembering the trauma means that the
victim is in denial, and denial becomes further "proof" of the abuse. Caught in this loop,
the victim of an earnest but misguided therapist finds it difficult to break out. Eventually,
as in the widely publicized case of Paul Ingram and his daughters, the subject
"remembers" the abuse.3
There are expert investigators of false memory syndrome, who have had extensive
experience with allegations of sexual abuse and are able to detect false memories.
However, they have begun to extend their expertise to areas in which, unfortunately, they
are not expert. The abduction phenomenon has become an irresistible target.
For example, psychologist and hypnosis specialist Michael Yapko writes, in Suggestions
of Abuse, that the abduction phenomenon is simply a matter of "the phenomenon of
human suggestibility," which causes him "irritation and disbelief."4 Psychologist and
memory expert Elizabeth Loftus, in her book The Myth of Repressed Memory, treats
abductions as a form of irrationality engaged in by otherwise "sane and intelligent"
people.5 She cites psychologist Michael Nash's assertions that he "successfully treated" a
man who claimed that he had a sperm sample taken from him during an abduction. Using
hypnosis and other therapeutic techniques, Nash calmed the man and helped him return to
his normal routine, but, Nash laments, "He walked out of my office as utterly convinced
that he had been abducted as when he had walked in." Loftus agrees with Nash that the
power of this man's false memories enabled him to continue to believe his ridiculous
Loftus and Nash, along with other critics, are incorrect. Neither they nor any other critics
have ever presented evidence that abduction accounts are the products of false memory
syndrome (or, for that matter, of any causative factor other than what the abductees have
experienced). The reason they have not presented this evidence is that they do not
understand the abduction phenomenon. If they did, they would realize that abduction
accounts differ from false memory syndrome in five significant areas.
1. In contrast to victims of false memory syndrome, abductees do not recount only
childhood experiences. They do, of course, recall abduction events during
childhood, because the abduction phenomenon begins in childhood, but they also
recall abduction events as adults. In fact, many abduction accounts, unlike false
memory accounts, are of very recent events. Of the last 450 abductions that I have
investigated, nearly 30 percent happened within the previous thirty days and over
50 percent had occurred within the past year. I have also investigated abduction
events that were reported to me only a few hours, or even a few minutes, after
they took place.7
In 1991, for example, Jason Howard, a schoolteacher, was on his way to my
house for an abductee support group meeting. He put on his shoes, which he
keeps by the front door. It is the last thing he always does before he leaves his
house. Suddenly it was four hours later and Jason was on his bed in his bedroom
upstairs. He called me immediately, explaining that he vaguely remembered
putting on his shoes and then lying on the couch. When I conducted a hypnotic
session on this event, Jason remembered putting on one shoe and then feeling an
irresistible urge to lie on the couch. He recalled that small beings appeared in his
living room and floated him directly up through the ceiling into a waiting UFO. A
series of procedures followed, including sperm sampling and mental envisioning
sequences. The aliens returned him to his house, but instead of putting him on the
couch, where he was at the beginning of the abduction, they put him on his bed in
his upstairs bedroom. When he came to consciousness, he realized that something
had happened, and he called me. The immediate reporting of this event does not
fit the description of false memory syndrome.
2. In contrast to victims of false memory syndrome, abductees have indirect
corroboration of events. For example, I was on the phone with Kay Summers,
whose abduction experiences began while we were talking. She described a
roaring noise sometimes associated with the beginning of an abduction, and I
could hear this noise over the phone. Hypnosis later revealed that soon after she
hung up the phone, she was abducted. False memories do not take shape
simultaneously with the occurrence of actual events during which a researcher is
an indirect corroborator.
3. In contrast to victims of false memory syndrome, abductees often remember
events without the aid of a therapist. They can remember events that happened to
them at .specific times in their lives. They have always known that the event
happened, and they do not need a therapist to reinforce their memories.
4. In contrast to victims of false memory syndrome, abductees are physically
missing during the event. The abductee is not where he is supposed to be; people
who search for him cannot find him. The abductee is usually aware that there is a
gap of two or three hours that neither he nor anyone else can account for. Such
physical corrobo-ration does not exist in false memory.
5. In contrast to victims of false memory syndrome, abductees can provide
independent confirmation of the abduction. Approximately 20 percent of
abductions include two or more people who see each other during the abduction
event. They sometimes independently report this to the investigator.
In addition, it is important to note that unlike victims of false memory syndrome,
abductees do not usually experience disintegration of their personal lives after they
become aware of their situation. In fact, in many ways the opposite takes place. When
abductees undergo competent hypnosis and understand the nature of their memories, they
often begin to take intellectual and emotional control over these memories. They feel
more confident as they realize that their supposedly inappropriate thoughts and fears over
the years (for example, fear of going into the bedroom at night, thoughts about lying on a
table in a strange room surrounded by creatures, being unduly frightened of physicians)
were appropriate reactions to a powerful, but unknown, stimulus. By remembering the
events, abductees seize control of the fears that have plagued them for years and get their
lives back in order, even though they know that the abduction phenomenon will not
cease. Knowledge of the abduction phenomenon helps them to lead more "integrated"
lives, rather than having the powerfully disintegrating effects so common with victims of
false memory syndrome.