The Threat - Aliens are Evil

Is this a discussion on whether Aliens are Evil or has OP concluded already?

Independence Day
Skyline
Battle: Los Angeles
War of the Worlds
Mars Attack
Fire in the Sky
Signs
Lifeforce
Alien

Stephen Hawking warning Humanity to cease attempts to contact ET's because they are most likely belligerent

Yep. Aliens are definitely evil.

reply to post by gnostician


Ok, I will check it out. But first I want to read a few other abduction books. Does she talk about spiritual aspect of abductions and past lives? I don't want to get involved with such theories at this stage.

Originally posted by la vie
Stephen Hawking warning Humanity to cease attempts to contact ET's because they are most likely belligerent

Yep. Aliens are definitely evil.

So Stephen Hawking is an expert on the alien pysche too?? Either that or he is an alien mind reader.

Originally posted by annella

Originally posted by la vie
Stephen Hawking warning Humanity to cease attempts to contact ET's because they are most likely belligerent

Yep. Aliens are definitely evil.

So Stephen Hawking is an expert on the alien pysche too?? Either that or he is an alien mind reader.

Apparently so. His endeavor is to know the Mind of God so I suspect he is an expert in the area of speculation,

Though I'm just as good:

-To meet an Alien is to stare into the eyes of a being that has an exponential amount of experience in life.
-To meet an Alien is to be in the presence of a being that knows of truths and mysteries that Humanity has yet to discover.
-To meet an Alien is to encounter a profoundly powerful perception that will inevitably enchant All in its presence

Yep. A species that is capable of inter stellar travel would eventually come across mind blowing lessons of the universe, and with that I imagine it would be narrow minded of us to assume All Aliens aren't capable of grasping the significance of All things. They could be moved by the magnificence just as we, therefore diminishing the possibility of tyrannical approaches to other species.

Take us for example on Earth, we have belligerent and benevolent beings. The same would probably apply to the species of the Macrocosm...Maybe Stephen Hawking had some bad experiences with Aliens that scarred him for life, I don't know

reply to post by la vie


Your "speculation" is indeed that of a wise soul, and I starred your post because I agree your thoughts fully. I've always said the same thing for a long time.

However, the Greys are a different story IMO. While I'm not fully convinced their agenda is a "negative" one from a human perspective, it is definitely suspicious at minimum.

I think they are possibly synthetic beings and don't particularly care for our well being. Most of the abduction accounts I've come across strongly indicate some type of genetic experiment taking place.

One must question why they are doing something so significant and extensive but put so much effort into making sure we don't find out. Who ever isn't concerned about that is kidding themselves.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
reply to post by la vie

 

However, the Greys are a different story IMO. While I'm not fully convinced their agenda is a "negative" one from a human perspective, it is definitely suspicious at minimum.

I think they are possibly synthetic beings and don't particularly care for our well being. Most of the abduction accounts I've come across strongly indicate some type of genetic experiment taking place.

One must question why they are doing something so significant and extensive but put so much effort into making sure we don't find out. Who ever isn't concerned about that is kidding themselves.

Namaste

Yeah there seems to be contradicting testimonies of experiences with the Greys. I stumbled across an interesting explanation by A women named Sanni Zeto who makes the claim that the 'Reptoids' use their shape shifting ability to transform into Greys for sinister purposes.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

According to Sanni, the Greys are benevolent beings that promote Love and Light

I've also heard of the little Greys being synthetic, controlled by a higher power like the way we would handle a nano hummingbird

reply to post by la vie

According to Sanni, the Greys are benevolent beings that promote Love and Light

Yeah, but see, I'm very skeptical of that. That's just what we want isn't it? I'm highly suspicious of these so called spiritual Grey encounters. It seems to me at the end of every abduction the Grey floods a person mind with spiritual and/or religious content, and also environmental/doom messages. When I view this in a skeptical manner, it would appear as though they are "sugar coating" their activities. I wont say for sure their activities are "evil", but they are cold hard and calculated clinical procedures, Greys show very little emotion 99% of the time, it's very doubtful they are the positive spiritual beings emitting pure love as so claimed. All the emotion and "spiritual" feelings elicited in the abductee are probably the result of mental manipulation, and their conscious memories of the event of those planted by the aliens. Think about it, all of those people who paint the Greys in such a positive light, have some awesome abduction story that they just so happen to remember. While other abductees who suspect they've been abducted see a hypnotist who almost always uncovers procedures and events that don't help paint a fairy tale land full of rainbows.

Whoa! That's mind blowing. My loose assumption was indeed the Greys were belligerent and could be working alongside the Reps, though I had no idea of their possession of such manipulative technologies. Cool!

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
reply to post by cromlech

 

You are focusing on one part of the book that I too thought made little sense. I would expect it to be extremely rare that their normal method of getting sperm would fail. Thus I'm lead to question the validity of these accounts where sperm is extracted in a "natural" fashion, it isn't a common theme and it doesn't make sense. Sex between abductees and hybrids is fairly common however, and I would say Jacobs theory about using sex for sperm collection isn't quite right. I can see why you are focusing on that small part of the book, it is quite illogical and Jacobs theories on sexual activity conducted during abductions definitely need further considering and expanding.

edit on 27-2-2011 by WhizPhiz because: (no reason given)

I am focusing on the single most important part of this whole charade. If you insist that what Jacobs maintains is the truth regarding a hybrid program, it is pivotal that the collection of male sperm is more reliable and more advanced than current human technology.

This has been proven to be false - these Advanced Aliens are purported to use technology which is both out of date, and far inferior, to human technology. It is exactly this stone-age tech which is why Jacobs pet theory fails - what he is describing is not absurd enough to accurately describe an advanced alien hybrid program.

In fact, there is nothing in this book which describes an advanced technology, which is exactly why Jacobs pet theory fails.

It matters not if you believe that aliens are good or evil, the entire mechanics of the hybrid program rests on the sperm collection methodology. It fails such a test. Stone-age humans can do better than our advanced alien scoundrels.

reply to post by cromlech

I am focusing on the single most important part of this whole charade.

You're focusing on how they extract sperm.

This has been proven to be false - these Advanced Aliens are purported to use technology which is both out of date, and far inferior, to human technology.

Sex is out of date now is it? Who would have guessed.

I've explained in great detail now that these cases are the exception, and you are in fact focusing on a rather non-important part of the book. I have already admitted that Jacobs theories surrounding sexual actives are very sketchy and need considerably more thought, I completely agree. At this stage it's becoming clear the sexual activity reported during abductions is one of the most complex and touchy topics in the whole phenomena. There's so many factors to consider that it's impossible for me to really discern much at this point, I need lots more information.

reply to post by la vie

Whoa! That's mind blowing.

Well, you should read the book presented in the opening post. Jacobs seems to view the alien intentions in a more skeptical manner. There are too many researchers that just want the aliens to be enlightened, positive and all knowing gods that can bring us wisdom beyond our wildest dreams. They are also plagued with the popular belief that the aliens are here to enlighten mankind, bring us to the next stage of consciousness, or something along those lines. Jacobs however has seen through their tactics of "sugar coating" abduction events, what he has learnt has clearly showed him that most abduction events are anything but what they're often made out to be. Their entire operation absolutely hinges on secrecy and the layers of deception are so vast that it pulling together hundreds of corroborating reports as Jacobs has done is a true feat. As Jacobs says, everything they do seems a whole lot mysterious once you understand how they operate and what it is they're really doing. He does a brilliant job at explaining the extremely complex web of psychology and deception surrounding the phenomena. What's more, is that his hypothesis can easily be backed up by external and disconnected abductee reports. In fact, it took me about 20 minutes to find multiple abduction reports on ATS that entwine perfectly with the cases Jacobs presents and the conclusions he's reached. Please see this post: www.abovetopsecret.com... I'm sure if I took the time I could build a massive database of reports and label their authenticity based on the known facts (most frequently described aspects of an abduction).

Why the "secret" agenda of Jacobs fails.

David Jacobs
Why should the aliens want to keep the UFO and abduction phenomenon a secret? Secrecy benefits the aliens and befuddles the humans. It hides the facts and fuels endless speculations. It is responsible for prolonged and rancorous debate between proponents and debunkers over the phenomenon's legitimacy. Secrecy also has a powerful and negative influence on abductees. It causes them and the public to question their sanity. Without secrecy there would be no UFO and abduction controversy.

In Jacobs own words, "Without secrecy there would be no UFO and abduction controversy".

The cat is out of the bag. We know, we can observe, it's no longer a secret. His little pet theory fails another test - the secrecy agenda.

I'm bowing out - some people "believe" when the facts point in an entirely different direction. but I'll leave you with this very interesting account from 1866, EIGTHEEN SIXTY SIX.

John Keel (1970)
In 1866, a New Englander named William Denton declared himself to be the first modern contactee. He claimed to be in telepathic contact with beings from another planet, and he and his whole family later purportedly visited Venus and Mars. Denton wrote a series of books describing saucer-shaped vehicles in detail, which he thought were made of aluminum. (A commercial process for manufacturing aluminum was not invented until 1886.) He also told his audiences (he lectured widely) that the folks who rode around in aluminum airships looked very much like us. His narratives were, in many respects, identical to those of the modern contactees.

.........

Rapid industrialization and technological development in the Western cultures apparently led to further restructuring of the phenomenon's frames of reference. The inundation of airships in 1896-97 marked the beginning of the modern UFO phase. Although the phenomenon experimented with the "outer space" frame of reference as early as 1866, it did not attempt to advance this concept on a worldwide scale until 1946. By 1950, it had, in a mere four years, firmly established the extraterrestrial visitants idea as a humanly acceptable frame of reference for the flying objects and manipulations.

The Phenomenon which Keel, Vallee, and Hynek, and dozens of other researchers talk about is not little green aliens, it is the real intelligence behind the objects, sightings, disappearances, and other topsy turvy stuff which has been taking place for thousands of years.

Enjoy the alien myth, after all, it was created, cultured, and matured for exactly this type of thread.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
However, I still don't dismiss all his other work and his conclusions simply because of that, every business has that unsatisfied customer.

Why not? Does it not occur to you to ask yourself how many other Emma Woods there may be?

What the Emma Woods case shows is that Jacobs has very shoddy and unethical behavior when it comes to his patients and is susceptible to a sort of cooperative confabulation. If Emma Woods testimony and evidence were not enough to cast serious doubt on Jacobs' research, Jacobs only helps his detractors in his response to Ms. Woods. At no point does he actually defend his behavior or tell us why Ms. Woods is wrong, only that she is crazy. This seems par-for-the-course among Jacob and his defenders; see Budd Hopkins response to Carol Rainey, for instance. At no point do they tell us why their critics are wrong. They instead resort to defame them; Woods is crazy, Rainey is just a debunker, both are women-scorned. Any and all of that may be true but it does not tell us why they are wrong in the criticisms of Jacobs and Hopkins. (Kevin Randle has a excellent deconstruction of Hopkins' response to Rainey).

reply to post by cromlech

Enjoy the alien myth

Now I see you're just trying to turn this whole thing into a debate on whether aliens exist or not. I get it, you don't believe in abductions or aliens, you couldn't possibly make your case any more clear. Now if you're done here can you please let people interested in this to discuss the topic at hand. This thread was not created with the intention to debate over the aliens existence, if you want to do that use one of the other THOUSANDS of threads basically dedicated to that topic. Thank you.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
Jacobs seems to view the alien intentions in a more skeptical manner.

Jacobs does nothing of the sort. He may have different beliefs about the intentions of the supposed aliens but skepticism has nothing to do with it. This quote from Mack in CDB Bryan's Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind is very revealing...

"And there’s another dimension to this, which Budd Hopkins and Dave Jacobs and I argue about all the time which is I’m struck by the fact that there seems to be a kind of matching of the investigator with the experiencer. So what may be the archetypal structure of an abduction to Dave Jacobs may not be the uniform experience of, say, Joe Nyman or John Mack or someone else. And the experiencers seem to pick out the investigator who will fit their experience."

In other words, researchers "just happen" to find abductees who's experiences "just happen" to match the expectations of the researcher.

reply to post by WingedBull

What the Emma Woods case shows is that Jacobs has very shoddy and unethical behavior when it comes to his patients and is susceptible to a sort of cooperative confabulation.

I know because Jacobs cases are so similar to the majority of cases completely disconnected from Jacobs. Some people here obviously haven't done much research on abductions, and I URGE people to do a considerable amount of research before they ever read "The Threat". Then come back to me and tell me you thin Jacobs cases don't closely match the majority of cases. Unlike some, I don't completely discredit a persons work based on the knowledge that person has a few blemishes on their resume. Take Dr. Greer for instance, once a very authoritative voice in the UFO community, now widely hated and despised. Does that mean I think the Disclosure Project is completely worthless and a load of crap because it was put together by Greer. Of course not. You can attack his character all you want, but it's honestly getting quite old. Why don't you try showing how his cases and theories contradict other abduction accounts and information, or give logical reasons how all these remarkably similar details are described by so many people from all around the world. I can only dream, you'll probably just reply saying hypnosis is completely invalid.

EDIT: Oh, I see you just did that before I could reply. Nice.

They exist - re-read my previous reply. The myth is that they're physical off-planet beings.

The evidence does not point in this direction, it points to something else, which is far stranger and more disturbing than your little green aliens theory.

reply to post by WingedBull

In other words, researchers "just happen" to find abductees who's experiences "just happen" to match the expectations of the researcher.

Why don't you ever reply to the points I make, you just keep pushing the same point over and over again without replying to any argument I present. I would like you to reply directly to the arguments I present in this thread first of all: www.abovetopsecret.com... Different researchers simply interpret the abduction accounts differently, and the above quote would be moderately true, abductees would search our researchers they feel will "resonate" with the way they interpret their experiences. However, it's still possible to find common trends in all genuine abductee accounts, no matter the person or the researcher. A lot of time a person can be describing an abduction account like it was a very positive thing, but at the same time are describing procedures and events that are the opposite, they just don't interpret it that way. The commonalities are there however, and you can get an over all basic idea of their operations by looking at a wide array of accounts. Jacobs keeps a skeptical attitude towards the alien agenda, that is what I was saying. He presents very solid logic and reasoning for most of his theories and why he is suspect of their operations. His work is not to be dismissed in the manner you suggest.

EDIT: The link post wasn't actually a reply to you, but I would still like your take on it. Because all you skeptics are avoiding my questions and just saying the same things over and over again - Jacobs is crazy and hypnosis is invalid.

reply to post by cromlech

The evidence does not point in this direction, it points to something else, which is far stranger and more disturbing than your little green aliens theory.

So you're going to leave us all hanging in suspense?

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
I know because Jacobs cases are so similar to the majority of cases completely disconnected from Jacobs. Some people here obviously haven't done much research on abductions, and I URGE people to do a considerable amount of research before they ever read "The Threat". Then come back to me and tell me you thin Jacobs cases don't closely match the majority of cases.

What "majority" of cases are you talking about? Who are you sourcing for the "majority" of abduction accounts?

Aside from a vague archetype, the narrative developed by Jacobs certainly does not match the one developed by Mack, for instance.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz I don't completely discredit a persons work based on the knowledge that person has a few blemishes on their resume.

This is not a simple blemish. If Jacobs were a medical doctor, he would find his license in jeopardy, all of his past research called into question and re-examined.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz I Take Dr. Greer for instance, once a very authoritative voice in the UFO community, now widely hated and despised.

Through his own actions in the years since. He has exposed himself as a charlatan time and again.

Originally posted by WhizPhizYou can attack his character all you want, but it's honestly getting quite old

No one is attacking Jacobs' character. We are questioning his behavior irrevocably tied to that research. The only people attacking anyone's character are Jacobs defenders. You are not telling me why I am wrong, you are simply dismissing any criticism as attacks on his character.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
Why don't you try showing how his cases and theories contradict other abduction accounts and information, or give logical reasons how all these remarkably similar details are described by so many people from all around the world. I can only dream, you'll probably just reply saying hypnosis is completely invalid.

Why don't you tell us why Jacobs is right? Study after study after study shows us hypnosis is an invalid tool. Why not show us independent studies that support Jacobs' claims about hypnosis as a tool, that doesn't come from Jacobs? Do you have any response to actual mental health professionals who say that not only is hypnosis not a valid tool for recovering memories but can confuse the patients perception of what are real and what are fabricated memories?

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
EDIT: Oh, I see you just did that before I could reply. Nice.

Do you have any response to that whatsoever?

Doing a bit of reading last night, it didn't take me long to find enough shady stuff about Jacobs to cause me to dismiss anything he comes out with. I realize there are some here who will completely disagree with this, and that's ok. Feel free to read and believe anything that works for you.

I still reserve opinion on the whole abduction thing until sufficient evidence can be shown (and no, I don't consider anything coming from hypnosis to be evidence).

Does abduction need to be researched? Absolutely. Jacobs is just not the man who should be doing it. Nor anyone else who might be leading these people down the garden path, as it were, through hypnosis.