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The Threat - Aliens are Evil

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posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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Recap #1 for those not interested in reading the entire thread:-

1. Aliens are performing very poor surgery on humans, using technology which would make a voodoo doctor blush.

2. Aliens haven't heard of in-vitro fertilization, which puts our advanced race of alien saviours many decades behind us poor humans.

3. Aliens haven't heard of our modern drugs which can erase memory's in their entirety.

4. Aliens "bug" the abductee's, to keep tabs on them, so that they can read our minds remotely.

5. Aliens want to keep themselves secret, for the time being, as we might not be ready for all their dazzling technology.

For exhibits of their marvellous and failed technology, please see points 1-4 above.

And remember, all this stuff is a secret, so hush, don't tell anyone, you're not suppose to know.




posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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Again, I'm not going to argue about Jacobs because at this point one is either willfully ignorant and will disregard the preponderance of evidence against his work. Or one is just uneducated about his work and needs to do some research. Research, here, does not mean reading his books. But about this I will comment:

"So what your saying is, even if these events are real, and aliens are suppressing certain memories that require hypnosis to unlock, we should just ignore them all and pay no attention simply because it's possible for it to be fake or real information?"

No. I didn't say that.

This is something the pseudo hypnotists in question say, right? Aliens are suppressing our memory and we must use hypnosis to retrieve it. But what is that based on? Hypnotically-retrieved testimony, right? And we have to throw that out so... this excuse has to go too.

But for the sake of argument let's say there are aliens and these aliens are suppressing memory. Hypnosis is not a valid memory retrieval tool. So, that's not the way to get at the memory. Hypnosis is not an option. The people writing books are telling you over and over again that this is the best or only way to go when, in fact, it's been proven in study after study to not be the way to go.

Hypnosis is a behavior-modification tool. Remember when the CIA was interested in it for such purposes? Remember all those "Lose weight/Quit smoking" ads? Behavior changing, not memory retrieving.

Remember the satanic ritual abuse cases in the 80s?

Do some digging. Google Search is your friend.

Believe me, I wanted it to be real too. I bought into Jacobs & Hopkins and the rest. Then Jeff Ritzmann got in my ear about how it's crap and I did my homework. Turns out, he was right. And that sucks for me and that sucks for you. But that does not mean the phenomenon isn't real and it doesn't even mean it's not alien in nature. The FACT is... we don't know. That's the only fact on the table here.

Unidentified means unidentified. The second it means "spaceship" we have a belief system. The second "highly strange experience with seemingly other intelligence" becomes "definite aliens with a comprehensible agenda," we have a belief system. In this case, a belief system based on false information created through hypnosis.


edit on 27-2-2011 by Jeremy_Vaeni because: clarity



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:17 AM
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So what is evil....?

Humans are the velocity raptors of the mammal world and we basically extinct everything we come in contact with....



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni
 



No. I didn't say that.
You may not have directly said that, but summed up, that's exactly what you are saying. You are claiming hypnosis is completely invalid.


But for the sake of argument let's say there are aliens and these aliens are suppressing memory. Hypnosis is not a valid memory retrieval tool. So, that's not the way to get at the memory. Hypnosis is not an option.
Ok genius, please enlighten us all with how you suggest we retrieve these hidden memories, what is your plan? Or, do you not have any plan, and you just suggest we leave hypnosis out of it until we have a better plan?



Hypnosis is a behavior-modification tool.
That one statements just hows how little you actually know about hypnosis, you think of it as some scary tool used to brainwash people and make them do what ever you want. You are so completely wrong. It most definitely CAN retrieve valid information from a person, and if you think intelligence agencies haven't also used it for that purpose you're sadly mistaken. They've probably experimented with every possible use for hypnosis, with memory extraction most likely playing a major role.


edit on 27-2-2011 by WhizPhiz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by WhizPhiz
 


Aliens aren't evil, we are aliens to an exospecies does that make us evil? Well I guess humans kinda are, so what is evil and what is good?

A species won't come billions of light years to kill you, perhaps only study you, ask to study them if you ever get the chance, what it would be like to have the ability to prob a species and catalog it's discoverys. Maybe in he far future humans might do the same, and maybe even travel through time, and alter with their ancestors and thus being confused for aliens.


OPPS did i give it away? Hahaha yea that's right one could be your great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandson or granddaughter. Wouldn't that trip you out?



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by cromlech
 


Recap for those wanting some sort of rationality and truth:


1. Aliens are performing very poor surgery on humans, using technology which would make a voodoo doctor blush.

2. Aliens haven't heard of in-vitro fertilization, which puts our advanced race of alien saviours many decades behind us poor humans.
Baseless statements made by you with any evidence of any type yet to be presented as requested.


3. Aliens haven't heard of our modern drugs which can erase memory's in their entirety.
Uhhh, you do realize how completely unsafe such drugs are, and their inability to accurately target specific memories. Do you have any grasp on how difficult it would be to fashion a drug made to target a highly complex and detailed memory? Further, did you even bother to read the reason they leave the memories hidden in their minds? It's for the abductees future reference, so they aren't as scared and get used to it over time, and to remember other specifics of an abductions instead of relearning it each time.


4. Aliens "bug" the abductee's, to keep tabs on them, so that they can read our minds remotely.
Jacobs clearly states the function of an implant is highly debated and he provides only guess work based on available information, he makes it more than clear he can't magically understand the technology, though likely reasons are to monitor abductee location and possibly thoughts.


5. Aliens want to keep themselves secret, for the time being, as we might not be ready for all their dazzling technology.
You must be on crack sir, because that's not being said.


edit on 27-2-2011 by WhizPhiz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
Unidentified means unidentified. The second it means "spaceship" we have a belief system. The second "highly strange experience with seemingly other intelligence" becomes "definite aliens with a comprehensible agenda," we have a belief system. In this case, a belief system based on false information created through hypnosis.

edit on 27-2-2011 by Jeremy_Vaeni because: clarity


Bravo.

Except the whole alien myth was engineered, created, by the same phenomenon which has operated on spaceship earth for thousands of years. Which makes the alien myth a true myth, albeit one which has been created to hide something else, and this something else has failed every study launched at it for thousands of years. UFO's are real, but the ET alien theory simply does not explain the sheer scale and ludicrousness of what is occurring.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:34 AM
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This will be my last post because to argue ridiculousness is... well... ridiculous. I've been nothing but direct with you and you want to turn this into a fight. Again, time to rise above defending our positions and being hostile, isn't it?

"Ok genius, please enlighten us all with how you suggest we retrieve these hidden memories, what is your plan? Or, do you not have any plan, and you just suggest we leave hypnosis out of it until we have a better plan?"

Yes, leave hypnosis out of it. I don't think we need a plan but if we do it doesn't include that.



Hypnosis is a behavior-modification tool.
"That one statements just hows how little you actually know about hypnosis, you think of it as some scary tool used to brainwash people and make them do what ever you ever. You are so completely wrong. It most definitely CAN retrieve valid information from a person, and if you think intelligence agencies haven't also used it for that purpose you're sadly mistaken. They've probably experimented with every possible use for hypnosis, with memory extraction most likely playing a major role."

This is so screwed up I was going to respond to it, too, but... never mind. Just... enjoy yourself.

edit on 27-2-2011 by Jeremy_Vaeni because: clarity

edit on 27-2-2011 by Jeremy_Vaeni because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:49 AM
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Recap 1 (part 2)

1. Aliens leave memory's intact, so that we're better able to cope at a future date, for when our beloved Aliens decide to return.

2. Aliens are very poor psychologists, given that they are completely unaware of the disastrous lives their patients endure due to their "missing time" awareness. These patients are so traumatised, lead such shattered lives, that their only hope is to get the truth from hypnotists such as Jacobs.

Summary - Aliens are behind humans by several decades within the field of cognitive psychology, due to their lack of awareness of what the abductees go through, even when said abductee's have high-tech Alien "mind reading implants".



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni
 



This will be my last post because to argue ridiculousness is... well... ridiculous. I've been nothing but direct with you and you want to turn this into a fight. Again, time to rise above defending our positions and being hostile, isn't it?
A fight? What, because I called you a genius in a sarcastic fashion? I was serious, I want to know what you suggest. And you clearly don't have any other solution.


Yes, leave hypnosis out of it. I don't think we need a plan but if we do it doesn't include that.
Actually, I don't think I will ignore the one and only way we have of peering into the alien agenda.


This is so screwed up I was going to respond to it, too, but... never mind. Just... enjoy yourself.
Oh no, I must hear your response. And I'm not enjoying this debate either. I usually do enjoy debates, but all you're doing is saying it's all so unreliable and mockery is your basic underlying tactic, saying the whole debate in it's self is ridiculous.


edit on 27-2-2011 by WhizPhiz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by cromlech
 


I must say you have a knack for distorting the facts and making a mockery of anything. Are you done yet?


1. Aliens leave memory's intact, so that we're better able to cope at a future date, for when our beloved Aliens decide to return.
If you've been paying attention even a little bit, you should realize an abductee is abducted from early stages in their life. They are part of a program, and their kids will also probably be abducted throughout their life. Their abductions aren't random at all.


2. Aliens are very poor psychologists, given that they are completely unaware of the disastrous lives their patients endure due to their "missing time" awareness. These patients are so traumatised, lead such shattered lives, that their only hope is to get the truth from hypnotists such as Jacobs.
Or perhaps did you ever care to think the aliens don't give two damns about the effects on the abductees life?



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 01:08 AM
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On the contrary, I don't intend to mock, apologies if I came across as such.

However, your reply is irrelevant, it fails to fit the facts. Doesn't matter when the abductions start, my recap still stands. There is no answer to this, because those are the contradictions of Jacobs pet theory. Those recaps are factual assessments of Jacobs book, which I have read most thoroughly.

The facts of what is occurring simply does not fit an ET alien extraterrestrial agenda. Something else is going on, and it ain't got nothing to do with no off planet aliens.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni
 


Guess what a quick Google search revealed to me: Hypnosis in Interrogation - CIA

An excerpt:


In summary, it appears extremely doubtful that trance can be induced in resistant subjects. It may be possible to hypnotize a person without his being aware of it, but this would require a positive relationship between hypnotist and subject not likely to be found in the interrogation setting.
Do you understand why that is? It's because hypnotists aren't magical witch doctors that control a persons mind. All they do is put the person into a state of mind where memory access and suggestibility is heightened (if the subject is willing). Meaning you can "suggest" an apple will taste like chocolate, but it's almost impossible to make someone do or believe something they really don't want to do. Of course hypnotism is open to false information and fantasies, but the real information available for harvesting and comparing with other reports can't just be ignored like you claim.

reply to post by cromlech
 




Those recaps are factual assessments of Jacobs book, which I have read most thoroughly.
Oh yeah, they surely were some good recaps mate. Best I've ever seen. Well thought and and completely factual, based on the concepts presented in the book, and clearly show you read it thoroughly.


edit on 27-2-2011 by WhizPhiz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by WhizPhiz
reply to post by A51Watcher
 


Thanks for the recommendation, I also just stumbled across Karla Turners website: www.karlaturner.org. ...since you say you've read a lot, do you know if her books are decent, especially the one called "taken"? It says this on her website:




.... They also happen to be two of the most important books ever written on the UFO abduction phenomenon.



I think the above hype of her books is pretty over rated.
My impression of Karla's books is that during her investigations she came to adopt a bunker mentality due to lack of coverage on the subject and no one willing to believe the events. She then became susceptible to willingness to believe anyone who contacted her without reservation, and was fed quite a bit of disinformation.
However the main points she stuck to while lecturing were:


"To audiences around the country she listed what she considered to be the only "facts" that might be construed about the alien invaders:

* We do not know with any certainty what they are.
* At least some of the aliens lie.
* During encounters, they control our perceptions.
* They can implant false memories.
* What we report about them is what they want us to report.
* The alien agenda has physical aims and procedures that have nothing to do with reproduction.
* From childhood, they manipulate us physically, spiritually, and sexually.
* They create virtual reality scenarios that are absolutely real to the abductees.
* They show an extraordinary interest in human souls and in our thoughts.
* There is some element of human involvement in UFO phenomenon"


I would have to agree with most of those points.


A good short summary of her books is listed here:

Karla Turner Summary


As you can see, she reached many more conclusions than those listed above, that the body of evidence does not support.

After becoming aware of the subject and reading several books, I took it to the next level and began doing local field investigations of abductees (besides my other investigations). The results were just further confirmation of the usual abduction drill.
On one memorable occasion, I went to a womans' home with an associate to interview her. Her take on it was these are great guys doing great things. She felt a strong bond and loyalty to them. She also said she and her daughters had been taken on a fairly regular basis for several years. About this time her three daughters arrived home from school. As they passed through the room, she asked them how school was, they replied fine, but had stopped and were giving her a meaningful silent stare. She said "what..." but they just looked at me and my friend and then looked back at her. She said "oh ok,... it's alright you can talk in front of them." Then all three pulled up their sleeves and showed her fresh red scoop marks. She said "oh last night huh?" to which they nodded solemly and she then said "ok I'll come talk to you in a bit, go get ready for dinner". My friend looked at me with bug eyes and discreetly jerked his head to the side to indicate lets get OUT of here!! We excused ourselves as we could see it was dinner time and took off. My friend had just finished reading about the proximity effect on the previous night and that was the reason for his hurry to get out of there.
Other investigations showed that the abduction was witnessed by those not involved with the event. Also a relatively small percent had no missing time or memory loss.

I would suggest getting out and doing your own field investigations to discover the truth about the many allegations slung around in this field. The results are pretty astonishing.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by A51Watcher
 




* The alien agenda has physical aims and procedures that have nothing to do with reproduction.
I agree with most of her points, but can you expand on that? What are the other significant "physical aims and procedures" she believes are related to the alien agenda?



After becoming aware of the subject and reading several books, I took it to the next level and began doing local field investigations of abductees (besides my other investigations).
Wow, nice. I would love to do that, except I live in a very rural area so I doubt I'll find too many people willing to talk. Not to mention everyone knows everyone and I wouldn't want to seem any more crazy than I probably seem already.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 02:01 AM
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These advanced Aliens have never heard of Electroejaculation - a human medical marvel that has been in use since the 1940's.

Conclusion - These advanced Aliens are over a half century behind human technology in this area.



Although the aliens routinely collect sperm by attaching a collection device to the man's penis, apparently this technique is not foolproof. The evidence suggests that there are times when this procedure and even some masturbatory techniques either fail or cannot be performed.


Highly advanced stuff continues:-



Women abductees have reported that they became pregnant under impossible conditions; they'd not engaged in sexual intercourse with anyone and yet they were pregnant.
..........
At least some of these "immaculate conceptions" are probably a result of bad timing, and because the aliens are living, sentient beings, they make mistakes. If, during an abduction, the male begins to ejaculate a few seconds before the aliens pull him off the woman, she could easily become pregnant.


Gosh, this is incredibly advanced stuff. I must say, I've nearly fallen into this mistake myself, once or twice, but looks like ET has the same dilemma as the rest of us lowly humans.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by cromlech
 


You are focusing on one part of the book that I too thought made little sense. I would expect it to be extremely rare that their normal method of getting sperm would fail. Thus I'm lead to question the validity of these accounts where sperm is extracted in a "natural" fashion, it isn't a common theme and it doesn't make sense. Sex between abductees and hybrids is fairly common however, and I would say Jacobs theory about using sex for sperm collection isn't quite right. I can see why you are focusing on that small part of the book, it is quite illogical and Jacobs theories on sexual activity conducted during abductions definitely need further considering and expanding.


edit on 27-2-2011 by WhizPhiz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 03:00 AM
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"The Threat - Aliens are Evil"
First hand experience?
So all snakes are poisonous, all birds fly and all ...whatever!



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 03:39 AM
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reply to post by WhizPhiz
 


Oh no, I must hear your response. And I'm not enjoying this debate either. I usually do enjoy debates, but all you're doing is saying it's all so unreliable and mockery is your basic underlying tactic, saying the whole debate in it's self is ridiculous.


I can't speak for J Vaeni, but I can vouch for the fact that his approach has been far above 'mockery.' The research done at Paratopia has taken a couple of years and taken a broad view. They've interviewed real credentialed scientists who have suggested alternative explanations for some aspects of the 'abduction phenomena.' They've avoided people 'in the field' to get an objective evaluation so folks like Susan Clancy haven't been involved. You might enjoy listening to the shows. Questioning if he's done the research is attacking the player and not the ball.

Dr Lillienfield.

Threatened by Hybrids

Emma Woods Interview

Carol Rainey and Tyler Kokjohn

One thing about this discussion is that it's going on across the internet and has been bubbling for a long time. In recent months, it seems to be heating up and it's been ugly. I think some people in the field came out and defended Jacobs rather than his research methods; they acted from loyalty and friendship. The way some of them attacked the players instead of the evidence has been pretty bad. I mean, there are guys who I've admired for years using sexism as a defence for Jacobs. People we've all read basically used the argument that 'she's a bitch.'

Emma Woods brought recorded evidence of Jacobs implanting false memories and belief that she has multiple personality disorder. It's there on tape and Jacobs is, curiously, withholding his own version. So how was that evidence dealt with? They said 'she's mad.' They said she's a 'woman scorned' or 'edited the tapes.' Not one of his defenders missed an opportunity to attack her and not the tape. They even labelled it a 'hate campaign.' What she's done is what she's had to do when so many serious researchers have closed ranks and tried to stifle the discussion out of emotional attachment and not the evidence.

Where J Vaeni has used mockery (he does!), he's also the first guy in the field to give Emma Woods a platform. 'Alien abduction' had never interested me until last year when I started listening to the Paratopia shows. I'd read the books, but didn't swallow the narrative. It's possible that J Vaeni/J Ritzman have brought more attention to the subject, and Emma Woods, than if they had joined the ranks of knee-jerks defending Jacobs by attacking others. Like them or not, without Paratopia's support of Emma Woods, most of us wouldn't have been 'allowed' to have this discussion.

I'm not a member of Paratopia, this is just my own take on it.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 03:51 AM
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For what it's worth....

OP, although it seems you already made up your mind about abductions, l'll send you another book from another hypnotherapist who has experience in the field for 40 years, Dolores Cannon:

books.google.de... #v=onepage&q&f=false

Trust me, there is a lot of research to be done to get "the big picture" of this all. l'm an abductee/contactee myself and l know the answers are not easy to be found, indeed it is VERY complex and takes a lot of time to understand.


edit on 27-2-2011 by gnostician because: (no reason given)



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