On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters.

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posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Guardians of the sacred whipped cream, more likely. I am not amused. It seems to all be just a big "frat house" joke. They are utterly ridiculous (worthy of ridicule).

Shame.

You are not worthy.

Lux


thanks for the compliment sir.


That you take this as a compliment says a great deal about you; however it was not meant as a compliment. I am no longer a member of any particular religious cult, but if a were a member of a cult and the criticisms and accusations against that cult were the criticisms and accusations that have been raised in this thread in the US media by US Masons themselves against American Masonry, then I would be thoroughly embarrassed and ashamed, and would most certainly leave that cult, and I would not seek to simply defend that cult without evidence that the allegations have been manufactured, and I would certainly not go into attack mode against those who merely present such criticisms and allegations.

We are judged by others on the basis of our allies and enemies, and that is entirely fair.

The American Masonic apologists on this thread have done little more than issue denials (absent of evidence) and throw ad hominems. It is simply indicative of their intellectual and moral dishonesty and of the standard effects of cult mind control.

Our enemies and allies in life will be our eternal enemies and allies.

Lux
No mercy on they who deserve none.




You sound like a broken record. Continuously citing the same outdated, overworked go-to gripes we have all heard a thousand times before. Can't you come up with something original?



The American Masonic apologists on this thread have done little more than issue denials (absent of evidence) and throw ad hominems. It is simply indicative of their intellectual and moral dishonesty and of the standard effects of cult mind control.


The pot calling the kettle black? I have seen zero evidence to any of your arguments. All you can do is is cite erroneous claims from poorly made websites lacking in just about every way possible. And for the record: you're being intellectually dishonest with yourself. Get a grip.

And for the umpteenth time: Masonry is not a CULT as you like to call it. Next time you're thumbing through your dictionary looking for cherry picked whiz-bang words to add to your next post, look the word up. Nowhere does Masonry fall into that definition.




posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

Quotes From Manly P. Hall 33º, H.P. Blavatsky, Franz Hartmann, Eliphas Levi, and Samael Aun Weor:



"Respectable sir, those who have profoundly studied the Masonry of Ragon or Leadbeater know very well that occult esoteric Masonry existed not only under the porticoes of the temple of Jerusalem but also in ancient Egypt and in submerged Atlantis.

"Regrettably, in the age of Kali Yuga or the Iron Age in which we currently find ourselves, such honorable institution has entered into the descendent, devolving circle...."



The idea that the modern system of "regular" Masonry existed in the ancient world is not an historical position; it is simply an utter fabrication. "Masonry" has anyway no existence other than an idea in the minds of "Freemasons (who do have an objective existence in the world")." One could start a religion business, claim to be an Osirian and similarly claim an ancient legacy. Religious Capitalists do such things all the time in the religion business.

Anyone can start an Eleusian "frat house," invent a serious of levels of inane rituals, inject whipped cream into the underwear of neophytes and claim to represent the ancient legacy of the Greek mysteries and sell silly hats to their cultists.




As for Aleister Crowley's teachings:


OTO, or Ordo Templi Orientis, page 3:



"Crowley misused the ancient Gnostic word "Thelema" for his own filthy ambitions!"





I notice on that thread you cite the text:



"The Gnostic Mass of the White Brotherhood, has nothing to do with that Black Crowley ceremony that you have seen on the internet!

"The Protoplasmic, Lunar, Bestial bodies (that any beast of the kingdom possesses), in other words, the pluralized ego, is the vessel or vessels that Black Kabbalists use in order to receive or collect the devolving forces of Klipoth (Hell, the infradimensions) by means of Black Tantra.

"Through Black Tantra, that is, through their Masses and the practices of the sexual degeneration of the sphere of Lilith their ego receives or collects, the devolving forces of Klipoth.

"The Naked Priestess of that ritual is the symbol of Lilith (whoredom), which the Black Kabbalists worship. Crowley asked people to call him "The Beast 666"

"Crowle y misused the ancient Gnostic word "Thelema" for his own filthy ambitions!

"We, Gnostics are not members of the Roman Catholic Church either. The Catholic church only follows the path of the Monk."

"The Mysteries of Isis, Osiris and Horus are derived from a Neptunian-Amentian period (Fourth Dimension), which is lost in the terrifying night of all ages."

"Simon Magus, Papus (Gerard Encausse), Crowley and many other Black Magicians who claimed to be Gnostic Thelemites, adulterated the sacred Gnostic teachings and rituals; they betrayed and abused the friendship and the trust of the Masters of those sacred colleges for Initiation from the White Lodge!

"Therefore, it is not strange to presently find among the writings of these cunning individuals from these dens of the black lodge, terms, sciences and rituals similar to those that were used within those colleges for Initiation."

"These black magicians from darkness abound wherever there existed colleges for Initiation. They are the antitheses of those colleges and they speak as Masters, always boasting about being Initiates of those colleges."

"Exactly! Crowley was just a very cunning Hanasmuss! And that is all!"

"And if Aleister Crowley betrayed his oath by printing the sacred rituals of the Gnostic Church for the public that is not our problem, but his! The Cosmic Law already heard his case and sentenced him."

"Actually, the placing of the Tarot/letters of the Hebrew alphabet came from the writings of Samuel MacGregor Mathers and his "Golden Dawn". Crowley was just a copy cat.

"Samael Aun Weor didn't seem to say anything about this. Therefore, it may not be so important as to where they are located. In my opinion, MacGregor Mathers was a very well learned Kabbalist and was not inherently negative (that is why Crowley attacked him!). The so called "path working" according to the above named tradition is not used at all by the studens of Master Samael.

"It is most important for us to create the Tree within us, through the initiatic principles of alchemy and transmutation."


I think it quite understandable that among the competing esoteric franchise businesses, some franchises would have different beliefs than others and claim to have a superior product in the religion business to their competitors

Crowley has anyway escaped the world of rather stuffy cults and silly old men with strange hats; his legacy lives on among the myriads of the Neopagan movement and cannot be confined to any particular esoteric franchise business.

Black Tantra? Black Kabbalah? I suppose I would define the most vile form of the "Dark Arts" as being the Craft of the professional hypnotist who wishes not to liberate others "from" God, but rather to enslave them "to" God; to bind them to the sin of religious morality, to the sins of celibacy, monogamy, exclusive heterosexuality, asceticism, the denial of indulgence and stupidity and to make themselves an enemy of human nature and an ally of humankind's greatest historical enemy, God himself; to such demons of the religion business, Crowley will always be a threat to them until the day they and their kind who have enslaved humankind over the last Aeon are eradicated from the face of the earth and from below the earth.

To restate; Masons attacking Crowley does not constitute intelligent argument and evidence against the allegations against American Masonry raised on this thread and constitutes a "distraction fallacy."

Lux

edit on 23-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: addition to text
edit on 23-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: addition to text


______________


Originally posted by LightCraft

The pot calling the kettle black? I have seen zero evidence to any of your arguments. All you can do is is cite erroneous claims from poorly made websites lacking in just about every way possible. And for the record: you're being intellectually dishonest with yourself. Get a grip.


"Dialectics is the Science of arguing well." Augustine.

Perhaps you can state what is "poorly made" about the New York Times website or the pro-Masonic "Freemasons for Dummies" website where claims of the previous page have been cited from? Never the less this is not about how well made or badly made the New York Times website is, anymore than it is about how stupid the American Masons look in their silly hats, or their childish schoolboy frat house rituals.

This kind of inane (stupid, irrelevant) response seems to be the "only" kind of response from Masons on this thread; denialism, temper tantrums, lack of honesty / outright deception, obfuscation, sophistry, ad hominems, distraction fallacies and a complete lack of any intelligent argument or evidence which would refute the allegations from the cited from press articles (irrespective of whose web site they have ended up on, or whether Masons consider the site not to be pretty enough) and FBI reports.

So much for the "Enlightened" protectors of the ancient mysteries of whipped cream initiation; what a pity that low intelligence, the inability to construct proper arguments and the debating strategy of a child in a playground seems to be a prerequisite for membership in US Masonry.

Lux

edit on 23-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Additional response



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Guardians of the sacred whipped cream, more likely. I am not amused. It seems to all be just a big "frat house" joke. They are utterly ridiculous (worthy of ridicule).

Shame.

You are not worthy.

Lux


thanks for the compliment sir.



That you take this as a compliment says a great deal about you; however it was not meant as a compliment. I am no longer a member of any particular religious cult, but if a were a member of a cult and the criticisms and accusations against that cult were the criticisms and accusations that have been raised in this thread in the US media by US Masons themselves against American Masonry, then I would be thoroughly embarrassed and ashamed, and would most certainly leave that cult, and I would not seek to simply defend that cult without evidence that the allegations have been manufactured, and I would certainly not go into attack mode against those who merely present such criticisms and allegations.

I think you may have let the swelling of your head get in the way of your thinking process. You presented evidence that has been heard, discussed, and dealt with before. Some of the claims you brought up were real in the sense that they actually had evidence and people were punished. Some of the claims you brought up were baseless accusations and sweeping generalizations. Those were the ones that we seem to be discussing. You however, seem to get a rise out of snide comments about cults and trying to tear down other people beliefs just so you are't alone in your little pool of piss. You wanted to discuss this since you made the thread, and you knew what would happen. Congratulations, you let everyone know early on that your intentions were to troll and not much else.



We are judged by others on the basis of our allies and enemies, and that is entirely fair.

The American Masonic apologists on this thread have done little more than issue denials (absent of evidence) and throw ad hominems. It is simply indicative of their intellectual and moral dishonesty and of the standard effects of cult mind control.

what proof should one bring to counter a lie? I think, wait, I know for a fact that you are sexually attracted to male piglets. You have a perverse interest in young slop wallowing creatures. Now prove that it's not true. Kind of hard huh?

If you want to discuss the fact that all American masons use hookers and binge drink, please just bring some evidence and we will discuss that. Otherwise, enjoy the farm sport.


Our enemies and allies in life will be our eternal enemies and allies.

Lux
No mercy on they who deserve none.

___________


Dude
No mercy for those who refuse to think logically.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 

"If you want to discuss the fact that all American masons use hookers and binge drink, please just bring some evidence and we will discuss that. " quote.

Now we're talking! Where do I sign..?
As a side line, I've heard a lot about American masonry yet I thought masonry was masonry no matter what country you practised it in?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

You presented evidence that has been heard, discussed, and dealt with before. Some of the claims you brought up were real in the sense that they actually had evidence and people were punished.


The allegations are of institutional corruption; I refer you to the quotations cited on the previous page from the New York Times and from "Freemasons for Dummies," and to other press articles on this thread. I am quite happy to repost the cited articles and quotations if you cannot be bothered to read them or if you continue to obfuscate and fail to address the allegations.


I know for a fact that you are sexually attracted to male piglets. You have a perverse interest in young slop wallowing creatures.


I only f*** slop wallowing male piglets for magickal purposes only, only on the full moon and only male piglets who are members of my religion, and I don't pay them with the proceeds of a children's charity. My sexual attraction to farmyard animals is is entirely irrelevant to the allegations against Masonry and I consider your remarks to be discriminatory, bestiaphobic and offensive to all male piglets and their male admirers.



If you want to discuss the fact that all American masons use hookers and binge drink, please just bring some evidence and we will discuss that. Otherwise, enjoy the farm sport.


I have personally never had to pay for sex, but I have worked in the sex industry and could not care less if Masons have sex with prostitutes as long as they pay them well and they are not trafficked sex slaves (as alleged in previous articles). That does not address the allegations which is that the use of charity funds to put on such events is endemic and institutional (see previous articles).


No mercy for those who refuse to think logically.


When you get around to learning how to construct a logical argument, please let me know.

Lux
edit on 23-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777


When you get around to learning how to construct a logical argument, please let me know.

Lux



naw, I think I will just ignore you and let you get back to your boyfriend.

oink oink.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777
This kind of inane (stupid, irrelevant) response seems to be the "only" kind of response...lack of honesty / outright deception


Yeah, I particularly liked when we pretended not to know what the original connotations of the words 'worshipful' and 'master' were and used them to insult you when trying to make a point. I fully agree, purposeful omission of evidence is dishonest and deceptive.



edit on 23-2-2011 by AugustusMasonicus because: Networkdude has no beer.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777
if a were a member of a cult and the criticisms and accusations against that cult were the criticisms and accusations that have been raised in this thread in the US media by US Masons themselves against American Masonry, then I would be thoroughly embarrassed and ashamed, and would most certainly leave that cult, and I would not seek to simply defend that cult without evidence that the allegations have been manufactured, and I would certainly not go into attack mode against those who merely present such criticisms and allegations.
Fine. Good. But I'm not a member of the Jesters. I'm not a Shriner. So such accusations have not been made against groups of which I am a member. They are not allegations against Masonry, they're allegations against Jesters and Shriners. You still can't seem to make that distinction, no matter how many times I've tried to explain it here.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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It's a intresting debate with both sides having there points, i'v stated in the past i'm anti secret society but i do believe in god so as some one standing on the side line watching you all both try to prove your points i'd say it's the middle ground some of what both sides said have truth to them and some not, in theory there could be a mason lodge somewhere in the world that's not even Illuminati masons having full blown out wild partys but i doubt every single lodge is like this, and for the record there is a god....so i stay neutral.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Lucifer777
This kind of inane (stupid, irrelevant) response seems to be the "only" kind of response...lack of honesty / outright deception


Yeah, I particularly liked when we pretended not to know what the original connotations of the words 'worshipful' and 'master' were and used them to insult you when trying to make a point. I fully agree, purposeful omission of evidence is dishonest and deceptive.





Understanding Masonic Doublespeak

Lucifer



Cult insider doublespeak is where private definitions of descriptive terms (nouns and adjectives) can be used to confuse cult outsiders, and where descriptive terms used by the cult can be redefined when questioned by cult outsiders.



I recall some years ago, for example, debating with cultists of the Korean billionaire arm's manufacturer Sun Myung Moon, and asking about Moon's commonly stated prophecy that "America would be judged by fire" if America did not receive Moon as the Second Coming of Christ (i.e., as a dictator). The cultists replied (I paraphrase), "Oh well "fire" is symbolic for the "truth"" And of course according to the Moon cult, the Moon cult is not a cult, their religion is not a religion, but an "association" for the unification of all religions, and their "Church" is not a church but a federation for world peace (nb., they renamed the "Unification Church" to the Family Federation for World Peace,") though they continue to own their own churches.


"Our religion is not a religion. Our priests are not priests. Our Temples are not Temples, Our Rituals are not Rituals. We are not people but persons. We are not brothers, we are brethern"

The Masonic cultists can claim all they like that a "Master" in their cult is not a Master, or that a "Worshipful Master" is a non Master who is unworthy of worship, or that their religion is not a religion, or that the Templars are not Temple cultists, or their Temples are not Temples, but Lodges, or that their priestly titles are not the titles of priests, but of bretheren or perhaps even (may I suggest) that their rituals are not rituals but perhaps just merely practical jokes where whipped cream is poured down the underwear of cultists, and that their rites are not rites but rituals and that their rituals are not rituals but rites.

Basically this is all just typical of both cult doublespeak and cult obfuscation ("the concealment of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing").

I do recall, for example, that on another discussion group a British Freemason (Peter Clatworthy), in defending the claim that his cult franchise was not a religion stated that Masonry was "religious but not a religion" whatever that means.




"Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking. "

From Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Criteria for Thought Reform (in Religious Cults).



And of course, if you don't accept the definitions of terms of the cultists Doublespeak, they will insult you and accuse you of being deceptive.

Again this entire issue is just another "distraction fallacy" to avoid presenting evidence of their claims that the evidence of Institutional Masonic corruption surrounding the world's largest non religious charity has been fabricated. If your cult religion is indefensible, don't even try to defend it; to defend the use of charity funds for drunken revelry where pompous drunken old men wearing funny hats spend the evening wth strippers and prostitutes, just attack your critics and obfusicate.

"For every slave a master and for every master a slave. Neither slaves nor masters be. No gods, no masters."


edit on 23-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by King Seesar
 


I am not a shriner, so I cannot speak for them, but I know they have fun when they meet. They have a bar, so I would guess they drink some. I do too. They are all masons first, and are bound by the same oath I am. So I seriously doubt that they traffic hookers, and break the law, but again, I am not a member so I cannot say for sure. I can say for sure that inside a masonic lodge, there is no drinking, partying, sex of any kind, or law breaking. Those are the facts and they are undisputed.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
I can say for sure that inside a masonic lodge, there is no drinking, partying, sex of any kind.


This is my problem with Masonry. A Temple should be a place where there is a lot of drinking and orgiastic sex; and if you admitted women to Masonry, the American Masons would not have to employ prostitutes and trafficked sex slaves at their functions. I have no objection to all male sex cults, but it seems a bit imbalanced; it is good to have sex with women sometimes also; otherwise you have to have a passive male as the High Priestess all the time. This is why the Neopagan movement is growing in popularity and Freemasonry is getting a reptutation for being a club for boring old men who operate charity scams. And try to do something about those silly costumes and funny hats. If you allowed women into the Masons, perhaps Masons would not have raise money for "children" and actually spend it child prostitutes (as has been alleged in the OP and by the FBI).

Lux


"I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this."

Book of the Law
www.sacred-texts.com...



edit on 23-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: quote added
edit on 23-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777




You seem to really like posting photos without any caption which might explain what exactly we're looking at (or what it might have to do with the topic at hand), or even where you might have found said photo on the web so that we can evaluate them in context.

Do YOU even know what you're posting photos of? Could you please tell the rest of us?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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I've made some simple rules for myself.


When arguing/discussing with Masons remember :

1) You cannot defeat them in the internet (THEY WILL ALWAYS WIN)
2) Never, ever stoop down to their level.

3) Evidence is holds no value to them, remember they are MASONS.
4) Remember the Special Olympics quote? You can always apply it here.
5) If they don't want you to call them a cult then call them gangsters because they will always gang up on you.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Now onto the topic. One thing I may add that can be valuable is

"There are no facts only interpretations" Friedrich Nietzsche.
edit on 23-2-2011 by Lateralussicksicksick because: Hang on or be humbled again.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777
Cult insider doublespeak is where private definitions of descriptive terms (nouns and adjectives) can be used to confuse cult outsiders, and where descriptive terms used by the cult can be redefined when questioned by cult outsiders.


Really? Another tedious and pedantic post, this one to try and postulate that the origins of certain words are unknown to all except yourself.

The word 'master', from Mirriam-Webster online:


a : a presiding officer in an institution or society (as a college)


From Dictionary.com:


13. a presiding officer.


The word 'worshipful' from Dictionary.com:


2. ( initial capital letter ) British . a formal title of honor used in announcing or mentioning certain highly regarded or respected persons or groups (usually preceded by the ).


From Mirriam-Webster:


a. archaic : notable, distinguished
b. chiefly British —used as a title for various persons or groups of rank or distinction


Oh, look! They match! Using the dictionary can be fun and educational.


I recall some years ago, for example, debating with cultists of the Korean billionaire arm's manufacturer Sun Myung Moon...


Your personally conflated and most likely embelished recollections are not relevant to the debate. They are hearsay.


The Masonic cultists can claim all they like that a "Master" in their cult is not a Master, or that a "Worshipful Master" is a non Master who is unworthy of worship...


Or they can just cite the dictionary for the words' origins and centuries-old usage and dispell all doubt.


Basically this is all just typical of both cult doublespeak and cult obfuscation ("the concealment of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing").


The concealment was strictly on the socio-cultist, who, having a tremendous axe to grind, disregarded the accepted usage and origins of the words and attempted to create its' own definition of the same and was summarily caught in the process. It then attempted to backtrack but was caught once again, and having little to no shame, attempted to conceal this fact a second time from truth-seeking members of this forum.



"Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking. "

From Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Criteria for Thought Reform (in Religious Cults).


Notice the bolded portion above. This is exactly what you attempted to perpetrate in positing a alternate explanation as opposed to the centuries-old usage. Socio-cultist strikes again.


And of course, if you don't accept the definitions of terms of the cultists Doublespeak, they will insult you and accuse you of being deceptive.


Or, you could just use a dictionary and discover that the socio-cultist is full of crap.


Again this entire issue is just another "distraction fallacy"...


You are your own worst distraction. Instead of admitting that you were being disengenious (at best) you chose the route of intellectual dishonesty and presented it as truth.


...to avoid presenting evidence of their claims that the evidence of Institutional Masonic corruption surrounding the world's largest non religious charity has been fabricated. If your cult religion is indefensible, don't even try to defend it; to defend the use of charity funds for drunken revelry where pompous drunken old men wearing funny hats spend the evening wth strippers and prostitutes, just attack your critics and obfusicate.


Watch closely.

I think that the actions of the Shriners/Jesters in the Original Post were reprehensible and I hope that they were punished to the fullest extent of the law. They do not epitomize what a human being should be, let alone a Mason.

Their actions however are neither endemic or systemic to Masonry.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by Lateralussicksicksick
When arguing/discussing with Masons remember :

1) You cannot defeat them in the internet (THEY WILL ALWAYS WIN)
2) Never, ever stoop down to their level.

3) Evidence is holds no value to them, remember they are MASONS.
4) Remember the Special Olympics quote? You can always apply it here.
5) If they don't want you to call them a cult then call them gangsters because they will always gang up on you.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Now onto the topic. One thing I may add that can be valuable is

"There are no facts only interpretations" Friedrich Nietzsche.


1. If they had done anything wrong then of course they could be defeated. You seem to be conceeding defeat before you've proven your argument.
2.Please supply what their level is?
3.Evidence is the only thing that matters. If you have evidence that the masons are guilty of something could you please supply it?
4.Special olympics!
5.I'm one of them that thinks the masons are a cult. Calling them gangsters is a bit much though...

I'm intreagued by the freemasons. I dont think they are any threat what so ever but its the way they interact with one another that I find amusing. Masons are like any other group of people who get together under a similar belief, flag or religion, no matter if its a football team, politics, or religion. If you attack it they are bound to stick up for themselves... The supporters of my team are like family and I guess thats what the masons feel like, so if you attack one you attack them all. Thats life my friend. They wouldn't be human if they didn't react accordingly.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by Lateralussicksicksick
When arguing/discussing with Masons remember :

1) You cannot defeat them in the internet (THEY WILL ALWAYS WIN)


Nonsense. Nobody can "win" a debate with me by resorting to childish temper tantrums, doublespeak, ad hominems (throwing insults), obfuscation, denying evidence, deception (lying) and various disctraction argument fallacies and "I" am the final judge of the matter, not the Masons; and all I have heard thus far from these Masons here is the kind of cacophany of unintelligent noise that one would expect from a crowd of drunken football hooligans.


2) Never, ever stoop down to their level.


I do not raise money for sick children and use the funds to have parties where there is drunken revelry with strippers, prostitutes, kidnapped sex slaves and child sex prostitutes. I consider the American Masons to be morally subhuman anyway, and I have no intention of ever "stooping" to their level.


3) Evidence is holds no value to them, remember they are MASONS.


I am perfectly well aware of that, but that is not really the point; the longer they ramble on and fail to produce evidence that the claims of institutional corruption against their cult have been fabricated, the longer the thread might go on. I am only here to insert numerous of Masonic keywords on every page and to get the these pages to the front page of Google and other search engines on various Masonic, Shirner, Jester associated subjects; we are already on the front page in various categories. You don't honestly believe that I am just here to take abuse from these morons, do you? My ulterior motives are far more sinister.


"There are no facts only interpretations" Friedrich Nietzsche.


Well I might be an evangelical Nietzschean, but I would have to disagree with him on that. I bet you I could get any sane adult to disagree with that. For example a "hammer made of steel" might be a fact. If a person said "that hammer is not a fact, just an interpretation" I would hit the person repeatedly until they admitted it was a fact. The same argument works against philosophical solipsists (total objectivists).

Lux


edit on 23-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
1. If they had done anything wrong then of course they could be defeated. You seem to be conceeding defeat before you've proven your argument.
2.Please supply what their level is?
3.Evidence is the only thing that matters. If you have evidence that the masons are guilty of something could you please supply it?
4.Special olympics!
5.I'm one of them that thinks the masons are a cult. Calling them gangsters is a bit much though...


1. Of course they won't always win but in a sense they will still win something, remember this quote " Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
2. Same with number 1
3. If you look at "some" of the Masons here, you would clearly see that Evidence holds no value to them. I'm not naming them because they might eat me alive when I do.

4.

5. Okay that may be too much but ganging up on someone is what they do here.


I'm intreagued by the freemasons. I dont think they are any threat what so ever but its the way they interact with one another that I find amusing. Masons are like any other group of people who get together under a similar belief, flag or religion, no matter if its a football team, politics, or religion. If you attack it they are bound to stick up for themselves... The supporters of my team are like family and I guess thats what the masons feel like, so if you attack one you attack them all. Thats life my friend. They wouldn't be human if they didn't react accordingly.


I'm not as intrigued by the freemasons as you are but I am still amused at how they do everything to defend their brother mason. I criticize masons because they are supposedly the epitome of goodness or so they say, I don't recall it where I have read this but some mason said that the reason to join masonry is to make a good man better, well I don't see anything that is "better" with Masons here.

Also you joined ATS the same time I did, it must be a conspiracy?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777


I am perfectly well aware of that, but that is not really the point; the longer they ramble on and fail to produce evidence that the claims of institutional corruption against their cult have been fabricated, the longer the thread might go on. I am only here to insert numerous of Masonic keywords on every page and to get the these pages to the front page of Google and other search engines on various Masonic, Shirner, Jester associated subjects; we are already on the front page in various categories. You don't honestly believe that I am just here to take abuse from these morons, do you?


Yes I know what you mean, and I may have an idea of what you are trying to do.


My ulterior motives are far more sinister.


Black is white, white is black same with God is the Devil, Devil is the God. I hope your motives comes to a fruition.

Your screen name also suggests something Lucifer - the light bearer, 777 - the number of perfection. I wish you the best.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Lateralussicksicksick

I'm not as intrigued by the freemasons as you are but I am still amused at how they do everything to defend their brother mason. I criticize masons because they are supposedly the epitome of goodness or so they say, I don't recall it where I have read this but some mason said that the reason to join masonry is to make a good man better, well I don't see anything that is "better" with Masons here.

Also you joined ATS the same time I did, it must be a conspiracy?


well maybe you should get to know some of the Masons on here, I think you'd find us pretty cool





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