Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Lucifer777
The Freemasons are just another gang of religious Capitalists
Well that's a bit of a general statement no?
I am certainly not "religious" in the traditional sense of the word -- I don't believe in organized religion ..
"Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are that
you won't know it, and may even vigorously deny it." Richard Dawkins
We are just going around in circles on this point; I am entirely aware that the Masons have their own form of "doublespeak," where for some reason
they no longer wish their religious rituals to be considered religious; however from the point of view of the academic study of religion, Freemasonry
has many of the signs of a religion, Temples, esoteric beliefs, a preistly heirarchy, priestly titles etc. It does not make any difference to me how
you define terms in your own cult insider language.
and I don't consider myself a Capitalist either, I consider myself a Mercantilist.
Mercantilism is just an antiquated theory of Capitalism, however my general observation of Freemasons is that they tend to be rather conservative
Capitalists, many of whom, in England and Scotland anyway, join to improve their career prospects and to climb up the Capitalist food chain.
The highest proportion of Masonic Lodges anywhere in the world is in the "Square Mile" of the City of London (i.e., the financial districts) where
there are several hundred lodges; indeed many of the UK financial institutions such as Lloyds of London have their own Masonic Lodges, and Masonic
membership can not only assist one's career but in certain companies it is almost mandatory at certain levels.
So if you're completely wrong about just one random Mason, I think it's safe to assume you're wrong about a great many of them. I'd suggest not
I do know of at least one Freemason on another forum who considers himself to be a political Anarchist, however the exception does not make the rule.
Since it is a common conspiracy theory presented by the David Ickes and Henry Makows of the world that the Masons are following the political agenda
of the 18th century Illuminists who were proto-Anarchists, I think that if such a bizzarre theory was true, that we would "generally" find that
Freemasons are Anarchists, political radicals, anti-Capitalists, etc., however such a generalisation would simply be untrue, since Masons are
generally rather conservative Capitalists and while is it common for British Masons to be monarchists, it is entirely unusual to find an Anarchist
Mason; indeed in the UK the Anarchist movement is very much a counterculture, while the Freemasons tend to be very much part of the economic
¶More than 57 percent of the $32 million the Shriners raised in 2005 through circuses, bingo games, raffles and a variety of sales went to costs of
the fraternity, including keeping temple liquor cabinets full and offering expenses-paid trips to Shrine meetings and other events.
1. The Shriners are a FRATERNITY. They are registered as such, they are not a Charity, they are a Fraternity that partakes in Charity.
To argue that the Shriners are a fraternity (a brotherhood) is rather like saying that the Catholics are an organisation of people. The allegation
against the Shriners is that they are a tax exempt organisation which raises money for children's hospitals and which diverts part of that money
towards functions of drunken revelry.
Just for kicks and giggles: Most charities keep 60-80 cents per Dollar.
Yes I am quite aware that most charities are just tax free business, with some of the world's worst charities donating almost nothing to charity and
using almost all their funds for "administration costs;" however since the Shriners are the world's wealthiest non religious charity it is quite to be
expected that they will face criticism.
Why don't you just join and find out for your self instead of berating an entire people because of some personal vendetta.
I do "not" have any personal vendetta against the Masons. I grew up among Scottish Masons and despite them generally being rather old fashioned and
conservative people who were part of the Scottish economic establishment, I simply have no reason to engage in a personal vendetta.
If one compares the Scottish Masons, who often are referred to as the "Scottish Mafia" with other gangs of Capitalists, such as the Yakuza, the
Triads, the Russian Mafia, the Italian Mafia or even the Bloods and the Crips, it seems to me that the "Scottish Mafia" are probably the most
civilized and least "thuggish" of them all.
It is quite appropriate for me to raise the matters stated on this thread on a forum frequented by Masons, and it is also very interesting for me to
observe the kind of responses to such criticisms; however once this thread has died it's death and joined the great storeroom of Internet debates in
the sky; I will simply move on to other matters. Of course I am very interested in the study of Masonry since it is a major religious cult of
financially powerful Capitalists who are a prominent force in the British economy, but I in no way wish to imply that it is "the" most malevolent
organisation in Capitalism.
My own family has traditionally bneen divided along ideological lines. My father for example is a lifelong evangelical anti-Communist, but he is
simply too old now for him to have any influence on the world; however he did at one point pay for my deposit when I stood in the general election as
an Independent Communist candidate in London some years ago; not because he is a Communist, but merely because I am his son. Other members of my
family have also had rather radical politics, including one member of my family who was probably the most famous Communist political celebrity in
Scottish history whom my father still to this day derides, while I take a contrary position, as would other members of my extended family
I have never had any interest in joinng Masonry; my social circle has never really been that of the establishment, and I have been much more at home
in the Anarchist and Neopagan and countercultures where I belong. I find that I have very little in common with most Masons, since they normally tend
to be rather conservative and part of the economic establishment; furthermore I see absolutely no value in purchasing Masonic degrees, since I
consider it to be a heretical form of Kabbalism, and an esoteric franchise business, whereas I tend to consider the Kabbalism of Crowley and the
"irregular" Masonic counter-culture and the esoteric revivialsim of the 19th and 20th centuries to represent a more orthodox understanding of the
With regards to the American brand of Masonry, I do concede that there were progressive elements among the American Masons, particularly in the 18th
century and among the "founding fathers" of America; thus it is unsurpising when conspiracy theorists point to the esoteric symbolism on US currency
and the architecture of Washington D.C., particularly since many architects were Masons; and anyway there are only so many commonly useful geometrical
shapes in architecture such as pentagrams and hexagrams and and so forth. I find no grand conspiracy in that, and I have personally had a lifelong
fascination with esotericism anyway. Never the less, my studies of modern American Freemasons and my debates with them do not give me a good
impression of them; they are simply not the kind of people whom I would choose to fraternalise with, and were I once again living in the US, I would
most certainly be part of the counterculture.
With regards to the idea of "New World Order" it does seem to me that there is a very real movement among the economic establishment to create a
global Capitalist police state, and many of the Alex Jones type "prison planet" type videos do give me cause for concern; however this is also
tempered by European socialism and the International political Left ("The Revolutionary Vanguard"), and society will always be affected by the
dialectical nature of politics and human consciousness; there will always be resistance from below, though I do see disturbing signs that the
Capitalist establishment in the US may be moving in the direction of military dictatorship, and I don't forsee any short term hope for socialist
revolution in the US, but the future of the world is not predetermined and set in stone, and I suspect that collective human will shall triumph
eventually and a more civilised socialist world will appear, but unfortunately not without a long struggle, wars and revolutions.
In a world of religious fanaticism, the Masonic religion is quite far down my list of "memetic viruses;" I probably have much more in common with the
more intellectual and esoteric Masons than with any Christian, Muslim or Hindu, which are, in my judgement, the three major memetic religious viruses
in our world, which are much more of a priority to eradicate than the Masonic religion, however ultimately the age of organised religion will and must
pass away, and that includes Masonry.
Masonry is anyway no longer the preserver of the esoteric tradition; those who are esoterically enclined tend to be attracted to the modern Neopagan
subculture, to Thelemic philosophy, philosophical Satanism, Luciferianism, Neowicca and a host of other New Aeon movements; indeed the term "esoteric"
is now almost entirely redundant. What were in the past "secrets" and understood by a few cultists, have long since been revealed and written about in
a myriad of publications since the esotericial revivialism of the 19th century, and the Prophet (Crowley) has long since revealed the secrets of the
With current turmoil in the Islamic states, it is quite possible that in time, the dictators of the past will be replaced with far more dangerous
Islamic republics. It was Machievelli's opinion that in war, one must always choose sides and never remain neutral, and frankly societies where
Freemasons have infiltrated the establishment would be far more civilised and progressive societies than those governed by Muslims; however I predict
a future age where none of the religions of the modern world will prevail, including Masonry, and humanist morality and human reason will replace the
slave morality of organised religion.
The End of Religion.
"Religion itself becomes offensively monotonous. On every point of vantage are pagodas --stupid stalagmites of stagnant piety.”
edit on 22-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting
edit on 22-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis