Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters.

page: 7
12
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join

posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 12:35 PM
link   
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


I feel religion has been infiltrated and corrupted on some levels but i agree to disagree with you that there is a God, i do agree that part of the purpose of the christian bible is to teach lessons on life and such, but one could argue that heaven is one of the other dimensions you believe in and pointing to the sky is just a metaphor for ones love of God...




posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 03:47 PM
link   
PLEASE NOTE: ALL MY REPLIES TO THIS ARTICLE WILL BE IN CAPITOLS AND ('S AND )'S

Follow the Money:
Shriners - Part 5
By Cassandra 'Sandy' Frost
6-29-6


What would you think of a charity group that lost over 99% of its cash assets in one year?(A GROUP THAT SPENT ALOT OF MONEY) In 1998, the Shriners Hospitals for Children started the year with a cash asset balance of $354 million. By the end of the year, they were down by $351 million. They lost 99.1% of what they started with. If you had started the year with, say, $30,000, you'd have lost $29,730 and be left with only $270.

Let's talk about money. (YEAH LETS TALK MONEY)

According to Guidestar.org, an online non profit resource, Shriners Hospitals for Children's assets are valued at $9,500,000,000. That's over $9.5 billion. Melissa Data also lists Shriners trusts and affiliated organizations whose assets are dedicated to Shriners hospitals. This adds up to $10,000,917,629 or over $10 billion dollars. (22 HOSPITALS SHARING $454 545 455)

How can we wrap our heads around these numbers?

Let's compare the $10 billion figure to the Gross National Product of some countries. The GNP is a measure of a country's economic performance, or what its citizens produced like goods and services and whether they produced these items within its borders.

Angola has a GNP of $10.1 billion. Ivory Coast has a GNP of $10.1 billion. Tanzania has a GNP of $9.87 billion. The combined GNP of Afghanistan, $4.63 billion, and Zimbabwe, $5.53 billion, comes to $10.1 billion.

Let's look at it another way.

If the Shriners assets were distributed per capita:

· Each of China's 1.3 billion people would get $7.95.

· Each of the United States' 298 million people would get $34.70.

· Each of the U.K.'s 60 million people would get $172.34.

· Each of Australia's 20 million people would get $517.

· Each of Palau's 20,500 people would get $504,428.

Guidestar also offers non profit financial data for the years 1998 to 2004. This is sorted according to what is taken in as revenue, what is spent as expenses and what is left over at the end of the year as net gain/loss. The data also tracks areas such as investments and cash assets.

Net Gains/Losses

For the years 1998, 1999 and 2000, the Shriners Hospitals for Children had net gains of $233 million, $246 million and $317 million. The next three years, though, they lost a lot of money. In 2001, the Shriners lost or spent $183 million more than they took in. In 2002, they lost or spent $406 million more than what they took in. And in 2003, they lost or spent $40 million more than they took in. (LITTLE KIDS DO NOT CHOOSE WHAT YEAR TO GET MEDICAL TREATMENT, IN OTHER WORDS SAY WE HELPED 27,000 KIDS IN 1998 WITH A COST OF 113 MILLION BUT IN 2002 WE HELPED 55,000 KIDS AND MOST OF THEM REQUIRED SURGERY, WELL YOU CAN SEE WHERE THAT MONEY GOES)

Investments

For the years 1998 and 1999, the Shriners saw investment gains of $1.274 billion and $545 million. However, in 2000, they lost $234 million in investments. In 2001, they lost $614 million in investments. And in 2002, the Shriners lost nearly 16% of their investments, down by over a whopping $1+ billion dollars or $1,045,760,830. If you have a monthly income of $2,500, this would be like losing $430 a month or like losing $5,160 a year. (I QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA: On April 9, 2009, Ralph Semb, Chairman of the Board of Trustees of Shriners Hospitals for Children, said "Unless we do something, the clock is ticking and within five to seven years we'll probably be out of the hospital business and not have any hospitals." MAYBE THEY WERE SELLING ASSETS CAUSE WE NO LONGER NEEDED THEM?)

Cash Assets

In 1998, the Shriners had a beginning cash balance of $354 million. By the end of the year, they lost over $351 million or 99.1% of what they started with. Again, if you started the year with $30,000 cash, you'd have lost $29,730 and be left with only $270. In 1999, they posted an $8 million cash gain. In 2000, they lost nearly $2.5 million in cash assets. In 2001, they lost $1.1 million. And in 2002, they lost $5.5 million in cash assets. (THE CHARITY BUSINESS IS NOT ALWAYS RELIABLE, LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE. IT CAN GO UP AND DOWN)

Why should anyone wrap their head around these numbers? Once the public understands these gains and losses, questions such as these can be asked:

· Why was so much money lost in 2000, 2001 and 2002? (REFER TO ABOVE)

· Why did 99.1% or $351 million in cash assets disappear in 1998? (REFER TO ABOVE)

· Why did cash assets disappear for four out of seven years and where did this money go? (REFER TO ABOVE)


· What caused the Shriners to overspend in 2001, 2002 and 2003? (REFER TO ABOVE)


· What happened in 2002 to cause Shriners to lose $1.1 billion in investments, to lose over $1.1 billion in the fund balance and to lose $5.5 million in their cash assets? (REFER TO ABOVE)



In this day and age, non profit transparency and accountability matter to the American public. A recent Harris poll revealed that 30% of Americans think that charity groups are headed in the wrong direction. This is why financial disclosure is so important. If it looks like a charity isn't doing right by their volunteers and donors, they, and everyone else, has the right to know. (SHRINERS DO HAVE A VERY ACTIVE ADVERTISING CAPAIGN)

To their credit, the rank and file Shriners pay over $2 million a year in dues, volunteer their time and work hard to raise money to help support the hospitals that provide free medical care to sick and needy children. Many trusting donors include the Shriners in their wills to pass on their estates, establish trusts and make bequests to also support the much needed free medical services. Both the Shriners and the donors trust that their time, energy and donations will be well managed instead of mismanaged as some of the data seems to indicate.

The Shriners have been criticized by non profit watch dog groups such as Give.org and the American Institute of Philanthropy for "hoarding" more than three times their operating costs. This is a standard bench mark used by Give.org they include in their standards for charity accountability. (PERHAPS HAS ANY OF THESE IDIOTS THOUGHT THAT MAYBE THEY WERE SAVING MONEY FOR TIMES WHEN THEY WILL NEED IT? THATS A VERY EARLY LESSON FOR KIDS, SAVE!?!?!)

The Shriners are sitting on $9.5 billion. Plus that which is dedicated by the trusts. In 2004, their expenses for program services was reported as $456 million, so the Shriners assets are twenty times more than what is needed to operate their hospitals. For this reason, in 2004, KOBTV reported that the Shriners Hospitals for Children took second place on the world's worst charity list. ( I CHECKED THE KOB TV WEBSITE AND DID A SEARCH FOR SHRINERS BUT THIS IS ALL FOUND, BUT I FOUND IT ALL ON ANTI-MASONRY WEBSITES. search.kob.com... )

Back to the importance of non profit groups making their finances public, especially when today, they can post their tax returns and associated financial documents online so everyone can see how they are managing their finances. (THIS I AGREE WITH)

The Shriners do not do this.

Remember what Deep throat told Woodward and Bernstein.

Follow the money.

Especially if it looks like it's going down the drain.

All copies of material reprinted or duplicated from "by Sandy Frost" must include the following credit line:

From sandyfrost.newsvine.com... Copyright © 2006 by Sandy Frost Used by permission

Visit me at:

sandyfrost.newsvine.com...
thecassandrafrostcollection.blogspot.com...






SO IN A LESSER NOTE, I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO READ THIS AS WELL, MOST IMPORTANTLY THIS PASSAGE.

According to a September 21, 2006 article in the St. Petersburg Times, “Shriners Sue Over Website’s Charges”:

“The suit, filed in Hillsborough Circuit Court, accuses J. Vernon Hill and the other members of his company, Charity Watch Center, of spreading lies about Shriners Hospitals, a non profit headquartered in Tampa.

The lawsuit claims Hill used the site to spread misinformation about the Shriners, including allegations the charity is being investigated by the Pennsylvania Attorney General's Office for misusing donations. Those allegations are false, said the Shriners' attorney, G. Donovan Conwell Jr.

'It's very important as a charitable organization that its reputation is not tarnished by people making false statements about them,' Conwell said.

yeah I know its from a very uncredible website, but when everyone can use sandy frost and other irreputable websites, well, why can't I? www.freemasonrywatch.org...
edit on 25-2-2011 by TheForgottenOnes because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 11:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


I feel religion has been infiltrated and corrupted on some levels


"If one were to take the bible seriously one would go mad. But to take the bible seriously, one must be already mad" Aleister Crowley

Consider the texts of the three major world religions (The Bible, the Koran and the Vedas); all of these religions have primitive and savage genocidal war gods; all three have gods which demand blood sacrifice; all three religions have edicts and laws, which to a modern European would simply be barbaric religious laws, and all three religions justify the institution of slavery and sex slavery. Thus it would be fair to say that all three religions have modernised to an extent.

In Hinduism, certain forms of human sacrifice were outlawed in the 19th century, though the practice still continues illegally, as does the practice of Sati (the wife throwing herself, or being thrown by others on her husband's funeral fire) and institutional racism (caste-ism).

In the Biblical faith, executions are no longer carried out for failing to observe the Sabbath (Saturday), and in Islam, the barbarism of the Sharia law of the Islamic war god is generally not adhered to strictly; Muslims generally do not wage war against non believers and take their women as captive sex slaves (as commanded by Mohammad), though the practice of slavery does continue in Islamic states, and just as there are Biblical fundamentalists, there certainly are Islamic fundamentalists, and such hideous subhuman wretches continue to spread their memetic virus, and have a great deal of popular support in the Islamic world and in the most militarily and economically powerful Christian nation of America.

If we adhered more strictly to the edicts of such primitive religions, the world would be a much more brutal and savage place; it is because we do not adhere strictly to the edicts of the genocidal war gods of the world's major religions that our world has modernised to an extent and has partly thrown off the chains of our savage past.


but i agree to disagree with you that there is a God,


The God of the Philosophers


The philosophical question of whether a Creator exists or whether She does not exist cannot be resolved by pure reason. Either intelligent consciousness preceded matter, or matter preceded intelligent consciousness; however both statements lead to infiinte causal regression (an endless serious of questions) questions, such as "Who created God's great, great, great (ad infinitum) grandmother?" and "What caused the existence of matter, and pre-matter and pre-pre (ad infinitum) matter?" and "What existed prior to the beginning of time, and what existed before that, and before that (ad infinitum)?" The third option of matter and consciousness coming into existence simultaneously is not really worthy of discussion, since it still begs the question of the cause of such a phenomenon.

These are clearly not stupid questions, however they are clearly "unanswerable questions," and since the answers are beyond the limits of pure reason, I consider it a waste of time to consider such questions, since no definitive answers can be given which satisfy human intelligence. Thus the theists, deists and atheists just choose one of the two answers and are reliant on faith alone; only the agnostic has the truly correct answer which is that the question is beyond the scope of pure reason, or they may refuse to answer the question, or merely state, "We cannot know."

The God(s) of the Transcendentalists (up-above-ists / theists).

This God of the Deists is merely the god of nature (Mother Nature), and the Deist is limited to studying nature, science, medicine, human psychology, etc., and all the natural sciences and humanities. The truly Deistic philosopher has no transcendental theology, nor religious laws apart from the laws of nature; to the Deist there is no transcendental god who demands the execution of Deists for failing to observe the Sabbath, and there is no god who demands to be appeased by child sacrifices to ensure a god harvest.

The Deist is thus essentially hardly so different to a humanist or an atheist, apart from his essential "belief" that intelligent consciousness preceded matter. If a volcano erupts and kills 1000's of people, the Deist surveys the same scene as the theist, but the Deist merely blames God (i.e., Mother Nature), while the theist may claim that the volcano erupted because of human "sin (i.e., not being religious enough)," or because not enough children were sacrificed on the full moon. The Deist, like an atheist, is a person of science and reason, and they both share a "belief" about the origins of the universe which cannot be verified by pure reason alone.

The transcendentalist (the theist) on the other hand is a dangerous, hideous, barbaric, miserable and wretched creature who worships a phantom created and defined in their mind, or in the minds of their primitive ancestors, and these grovelling wretched fools abase and humble themselves to a monstrous fabrication whose definition cannot be verified or falsified.

It is the transcendentalists who have produced the "slave morality" of the "sins of restriction," which are all manner of religious laws concerning restrictions on the slave, who follows not their own free will and natural desires, but the will of the God, who is the ultimate Archon (tyrant) and slavemaster.

Having defined God in preposterous, diabolical, anti-human terms, the theist then lives in fear of this tryant and teaches other children to live in fear of Her; fearing eternal punishment for simply following their nature instead of the laothsome fabrication which is the "Will of God." And this is the history of theology.

Simply explained, theology (the study of God) has never been about studying God, for only the Deist, agnostic and atheist can make such a bold claim. Theology has always merely been the study of the loathsome and fiendish ramblings of persons suffering from the symptoms of religious schizophrenia and who have created anthropomorphic definitions of deites, and have produced the religious laws demanded by such loathsome phantoms.


i do agree that part of the purpose of the christian bible is to teach lessons on life and such,


A mother who is a philosophical humanist or Deist will still attempt to teach her children "lessons on life" and ethical maxims such as "love each other," and "share your food and your toys with your brothers and sisters" and "don't get into fights with other children" and so forth. However when we consider the Bible, although we can "cherry pick" and "quote mine" the text for perfectly innocent and harmless passages, or for ethical maxims which are common to most societies, it is such innocent passages which are the danger of the Bible, for alongside such passages are all manner of outrageous, preposterous and villainous statements.


but one could argue that heaven is one of the other dimensions you believe in and pointing to the sky is just a metaphor for ones love of God...


If one is a Deist, atheist or agnostic, one must submit to the authority of natural law, to human intelligence and reason. As soon as one begins to revere the psychopathic and tyrannical Archons who are the gods of the Biblical fanatics, Islamicists, Hindus and transcendentalists, then such a person places themselves beyond the realm of philosophical debate and argument, and reveres what is unnatural, subhuman and "godly," and all their fantastical utterances no longer have to conform to reason. Such persons will tend to take upon themselves such "godly" qualities of the hideous and obscene phantom which they have projected, and they thus become the enemes of the gods of nature (i.e., human beings), and there is simply no possibility of engaging such subhuman theists in intelligent argument. They may as well stand on a street corner and speak to themselves, and since their transcendental diety is anyway only an inhumane and fiendish product of their own mind, talking to themselves is essntially their main preoccupation anyway.

Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, revolution, etc.


edit on 26-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis, and the text was not not diabolical enough.



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 12:51 AM
link   
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


I see your point and even tho we have a difference of opinion i was taking your side in the debate with a friend earlier on why Docters/Scientists have a lack of knowledge when it comes to things that aren't writin in a text book, in a sense they trap them selfs into pure left brain thinking trapping there brain into a box instead of thinking out side the box, i said something in a different thread on why the ying and yang theory falls short in that it only has two sides ie dimensions when cleary there is more then two, just the basic prospect of the grey area constitutes this and if we were truly to trap our selfs in a two dimensional mind set then we would have never grasped the concept of more then two colors, we would see everything in black and white when cleary this is not the case...so when you break down the religious structure into three sides instead of two i get were your coming from....

The funny thing is your quote of Aleister Crowley because by that logic he must of believed in the Bible because in the end he went mad....



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 01:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


I see your point and even tho we have a difference of opinion i was taking your side in the debate with a friend earlier on why Docters/Scientists have a lack of knowledge when it comes to things that aren't writin in a text book, in a sense they trap them selfs into pure left brain thinking trapping there brain into a box instead of thinking out side the box, i said something in a different thread on why the ying and yang theory falls short in that it only has two sides ie dimensions when cleary there is more then two, just the basic prospect of the grey area constitutes this and if we were truly to trap our selfs in a two dimensional mind set then we would have never grasped the concept of more then two colors, we would see everything in black and white when cleary this is not the case...so when you break down the religious structure into three sides instead of two i get were your coming from....


The Kabbalistic Duality and the Holy Trinity.

Some Kabbalists are dangerous and diabolical transcendentalists, and the ultimate enemy of the gods (i.e., human beings), and the proponets of the morality of a slave, but others are merely Deists, and we can extract a "natural theology" from the Kabbalistic archetypes, and from the very simple idea of the Holy Trinity, of the male, the female and the union of the two, which even a child can understand.

Clearly there are female and male human beings, and clearly there are female and male animals, and clearly there is a duality of positive and negative in the quantum realm and in the macro realm. Rarely we also find the hermaphrodite which is the most "ungodly" creature in the Deistic universe, having the qualities of both male and female, active and passive. The deistic Kabbalistic Creator is merely a reflection of nature and a unity of the male and female qualities, and thus the divine archetypal hermaphrodite.

When the male and female become one in love and lust, there can be found the sacred image of the divine; the incarnation of the Holy Trinity. This of course is blasphemy to the paternalistic religionists for whom God is a psychopathic male tyrant and slavemaster who despises human nature and who is the ultimate enemy of humankind.

Truthisms can usually be expressed very simply; it is the religious sophist and hypnotist who steals such simple truthisms and turns them into elaborate, fantastical and grand systems of sophistry, which not only do they not understand themselves, but nobody else can understand either, for that is their diabolical plan, to deceive, to beguile and ultimately to enslave others, and to pompously set themselves up as being more "spiritual" and "exaulted," "holier than thou," and as "Masters."


The funny thing is your quote of Aleister Crowley because by that logic he must of believed in the Bible because in the end he went mad....


It could also be argued that Crowley became more sane as he grew older. All the great philosophers were flawed human beings; for example, the ideal of human perfection (the Ubermensch) as defined by Neitzsche is still valid irrespective of his neuro-syphillis. It has been estimated that around 25% of all inpatients in psychiatric wards in the 19th century were suffering from neuro-syphillis, which is a neurological condition where the brain starts to disintegrate, and it is a condition which Hitler was probably also suffering from.

The fact that Einstein was suffering from dyslexia in no way negates his genius. That Mohammad and the fictional Jesus of the Gospels were clearly defined as religious schizophrenics in no way negates the genius of their diabolical, psychopathic and preposterous lunacy. To say that Hitler was an evil genius of a similar degree to the portrayals of Jesus and Mohamamad, in no way glorifies his memory; evil is evil, whether a genius or not.

What seems to have occured is that many human beings have been conditioned, hypnotised and indoctrinated to consider models of perfect sanity, such as Nietzsche, Marx and Einstein (despite their human flaws) as models of human evil and they instead accept diabolically demented and deranged models of insanity such as Mohammad and Jesus as their models of psychological perfection.

Even "I," who represents human history's apotheosis of absolute moral perfection am flawed; why only today when practicing "Holy Communion (the devouring of Christian flesh and Christian blood)" on the Holy Sabbath, I mistakenly dropped my chalice of freshly squeezed virgin Christian blood on my altar. To err is to be human.

Sometimes I type too fast and make spelling and grammatical errors, but this in no way means that I am not a model of absolute moral perfection, and by "moral perfection," I only mean in the philosophical sense; clearly I cannot simply run around burning down churches, mosques, hindu temples and synagogues, sodomising and then ritually slaughtering their vile priests upon their altars, and devouring their flesh and drinking their blood, which is of course how a morally perfect person would "behave;" but this is only because if my behaviour conformed to my morality, I suspect that the local police would dissaprove of my behaviour and consider me to have become completely and utterly sane.

Lux

edit on 26-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis, and the text was not not diabolical and sacreligious enough.

edit on 26-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Sorry I am having a hard time being diabolical and sacreligious enough today; possibly not enough Christian flesh and blood consumed

edit on 26-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Ad maiorem dei gloriam

edit on 26-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Advocatus diaboli



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 02:15 AM
link   
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


Again i agree with your point of view in the sense that there is basic good vs evil so in a sense that implements the concept of duality hence we bring in the ying yang factor but on a ton of basic premise the duality factor falls short that being in religion which you touched on giving three basic premises on the subject and also in the Politico facto for instance in the United States there's more then just Republican and Democrat you also have Libertarians the Blue Engima Party ect, ect, plus there's the old saying "there's three sides to the story yours mine and the truth" i could go on but you get my point....

I guess on Crowley you could argue the point he became more sane as he went insane in that maybe that's why he became insane but you got the point i was trying to make...

The way you ended your post was hilarious tho.....a star for your perfection my friend...



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 11:50 AM
link   
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


thing is, with this WHOLE post Lucy, people like you, Sandy Frost as very uncredible as she is, and many other links you have posted, have done all you can to make Shriners/Masons look bad, admit it, you have, you have had no other motive than making them look bad, you might quote big words, but without a copy and paste, you got nothing to say I bet, as far as real-life facts go, heres some real truths about the Shrine:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

like I said in an earlier post, if you split 10 billion dollars with 22 hospitals, you get 454 545 455, that's not much for a hospital, plus with the Shriners being quite active in cures and research you can see where that money goes, I know at my Shrine Club, we have a bar, with alchahol, and for every drink we have, we need to pay 2 dollars for the drink to offset the costs of the liquor, so our Shrine doesn't pay for us to drink, and our conventions, we pay 50 dollars for food, and entertainment, so in my oppinion Lucy, if most to all Shrine Temples do this, you got nothing to argue about, we know where the money goes
edit on 26-2-2011 by TheForgottenOnes because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 01:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


thing is, with this WHOLE post Lucy, people like you, Sandy Frost as very uncredible as she is, and many other links you have posted, have done all you can to make Shriners/Masons look bad, admit it, you have, you have had no other motive than making them look bad, you might quote big words, but without a copy and paste, you got nothing to say I bet, as far as real-life facts go,


This thread is littered with testimonials and evidence, however most of it originates from the testimonials of American Freemasons themeselves, and none of it from me; I have never attended any drunken Masonic events with strippers and prostitutes, nor have I witnessed any of the silly initiation rituals; all such allegations are derived from US Masons.

I had previously read the Sandy Frost article you posted above, but I did not quote from it or link to it since it just seemed to be very speculative.




With regards to making the Masons "look bad," it is rather the American Masons themselves who are responsible for making themselves look bad. As far as I am concerned it is just a silly establishment cult with silly rituals for various Capitalists, anti-Communists, US military personell and assorted dross.




As you may recall, the first post I placed on this forum was "In Defense of Adam Weishaupt;" which is essentially a response to the rather strange conspiracy theory put around by the Henry Makowites and the US Christian Neofascists that Masonry represents the radical Anarchist and Proto-thelemic agenda of the Illuminists and that they are Luciferians; nothing could be further from the truth of this ridiculous accusation.

I am simply concerned to show that the Masons are not Illuminists and that, as the evidence suggests they can be seen to be a bunch of drunks with rather ridiculous and infantile male only initiations who raise money for a children's hospitals and spend it on drunken parties with strippers, prostitutes, trafficked sex slaves and prepubescent girls (as alleged in the OP). Further the Masons are not Luciferians but rather "men of God;" Luciferianism in contrast demands total rebellion against God, who is of course the greatest enemy of humankind; whereas Masons appear to be his allies.



The Ancient Arabic Order of Nobles of the Mystic Shrine

www.angelfire.com...

.. The mother of the Masons, the Grand Lodge in England, is not fond of Shriners: it threatened to expel any English Mason who enters the Shrine. But for Americans, the Ancient Arabic Order offers a chance to let their hair down after they have achieved the highest Masonic degree. The Shrine was founded so that Masons could get drunk...... Only the cream of the Masonic crop are allowed to join this fraternal cult!...

Not everyone was happy with a bunch of men who regularly got together to put on fez hats, look at dancing girls and get totally wrecked. The Shrine was becoming the target of a lot of (well deserved) bad publicity. Some Masonic lodges were so embarrassed by their cousins that they considered expelling any Mason in the Shrine. Shriners met to come up with an appropriate response. An honest Shriner hit the nail on the head. "You know?" he said. "I bet if we opened up charitable hospitals for crippled children, people would think we were legitimate. No one is going to criticize people who give crippled children hospital beds!"

And that's how the Shrine Hospitals for Crippled Children came about!!!



Since your denialism is continuing, I think the best thing to do is just to post the entirety of the New York Times article here.

Lux




In Shriner Spending, a Blurry Line of Giving
Jessica McGowan for The New York Times
Published: March 19, 2007


www.nytimes.com...

ABILENE, Tex. — John C. Goline is living proof of the good work done by the Shriners. Struck by polio as a child, he can walk today only because of his six years in and out of the Shriners hospital in Shreveport, La., where, like all patients, he received free treatment.

Inconsistencies at a Alabama club’s bingo game raised the suspicions of a Shrine leader, but many of his changes were rejected when he left office. The experience inspired a lasting devotion to the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, the 135-year-old fraternal organization that founded and controls the Shriners Hospitals for Children. “They did wonders for me,” Mr. Goline said.

But his faith was shaken when he joined the leadership of the Suez Shriners in San Angelo, one of 191 temples affiliated with the order. He found that much of the money collected to support the hospitals was commingled with money used for liquor, parties and members’ travel to Shrine events. The Shrine’s national auditor largely confirmed his findings, but not before Mr. Goline was forced out of office.

His experience is not unique. An examination by The New York Times of Shrine records and minutes of Shrine meetings and interviews with current and former Shrine officials painted a picture of lax accounting procedures and oversight under which money earmarked for the hospitals instead financed temple activities.

The examination found these things:

¶More than 57 percent of the $32 million the Shriners raised in 2005 through circuses, bingo games, raffles and a variety of sales went to costs of the fraternity, including keeping temple liquor cabinets full and offering expenses-paid trips to Shrine meetings and other events.

¶Only 2 percent of the Shrine hospitals’ operating income comes from money raised by Shrine temples and members’ dues. (The bulk is supplied by the hospitals’ $9 billion endowment.)

¶A top Shrine official told a meeting of temple treasurers that poor accounting for cash coming into the organization was “an increasingly common problem,” and that more than 30 temples had discovered fraud — like theft of money and inventory, altered bank statements, padded payrolls and fake invoices — amounting to as much as $300,000 and involving members of their “divans,” the five-member boards that govern each temple.

Yet whistle-blowers like Mr. Goline are often greeted with hostility, retaliation and official sanctions.

“I was really amazed and shocked when I got into what had been done,” he said, “especially because everyone kept telling me how everything was done by the rules.”

In Texas alone, at least four of the state’s 13 temples have lost money to theft, embezzlement and faulty accounting over the last five years, according to several Shriners there.

In one of the rare cases where the Shrine prosecuted wrongdoing, the Zem Zem temple in Erie, Pa., accused a former top official last year of misappropriating $1.2 million in bingo revenues. The temple settled for an undisclosed amount.

Critics say the line has been blurred between money raised for the hospitals and for members’ entertainment.

“Money raised for the hospitals is being used to pay for parties and liquor and trips, and they know it,” said Johnny L. Edwards, who was a leader of Oasis Shrine in Charlotte, N.C., until he began campaigning for better control over money. “The way I see it, they’re stealing from crippled children.”

Shrine officials dispute that. Bob Phillips, the director of temple accounting at the Imperial Council, the fraternity’s national umbrella organization, said the Shrine had strict rules about identifying when a fund-raising event was being used to underwrite temple activities and when the money was going to the Shrine hospitals.

“It is natural for the public to associate the fez and someone wearing it as raising money for the Shriners Hospitals for Children,” Mr. Phillips said, “but because of that, we make sure every activity is meticulously designated fraternal or charitable.”

Michael Andrews, the executive vice president of the Imperial Council, said that other charities sought the Shrine’s advice about how to ensure accountability and noted that the Internal Revenue Service had found no problems in an 18-month audit of the organization that ended in 1998.

That finding, however, referred only to the Shriner hospitals, which are a separate entity from the Shrine, and it covered only the 1993 tax year.

I think if you compare us to any other charity in America, you would find we do the best job,” Mr. Andrews said. “I think you need to look at the big picture here: We probably do more for children with special needs than any other entity.”

"I was really amazed and shocked when I got into everything that had been done, especially because everyone kept telling me how everything was done by the rules," said John C. Goline, a former member of the leadership of the Suez Shriners in San Angelo, Tex.

The Shrine started in 1872 in New York City as a social club for Masons. It uses its own language and structure adopted from ancient Arabia, complete with potentates and secret initiation rituals. In 1919, it started building a children’s hospital whose operations would be supported by a $2 annual assessment on each Shriner and various fund-raising activities.

Today, 22 Shrine hospitals provide free orthopedic and burn care to needy children, and the charity that operates them is one of the country’s wealthiest, controlling $9 billion in assets amassed over 87 years — more than the Carnegie and Rockefeller foundations combined. Revenue from the endowment now covers more than 90 percent of the hospitals’ budgets.

And the endowment is growing. Individual Shriners and their wives make sizable donations to the hospitals directly and through bequests. The hospitals received roughly $235 million that way in 2005.

Though the charity is a separate operation, the Shrine organization continues to control it. The Shrine’s contributions to the hospitals, however, have become a negligible part of annual hospital budgets.

Only 2 percent of the hospitals’ operating expenses — $11.3 million a year, on average, from 2002 to 2005 — comes from money raised by Shrine temples and dues paid by their 411,000 members worldwide, according to the Shrine’s financial accounts.

And that number has been declining as membership falls. In 2005, the contribution to the hospitals from fund-raising by the temples was $9 million. The temples also set aside $4.7 million to cover the costs of transporting children in their districts to the hospitals.

That means that of the $32 million the Shriners raised in 2005 through fund-raisers like circuses and raffles, more than 57 percent went to Shriners’ activities and temple expenses. Mr. Phillips, the director of temple accounting, said any financial control problems were small, given the size and complexity of the organization.

“We have 191 temples from Montreal to Mexico City and Boston to Honolulu, with over 3,000 Shrine clubs and 2,500 units,” said Mr. Phillips, who like Mr. Goline benefited from the care of the Shrine hospitals. “Considering our international structure, cash control is not a big problem.”

Asked about the quality of temple record-keeping, James L. McConnell, the Imperial auditor, chuckled. “Let me tell you, it’s gradually getting better,” he said. “Every temple is different. Some have a staff of people, some have just one person in the office, which gives that person too much control over records and finances.”

Mr. McConnell said the Imperial Council had been working to teach temple treasurers standards of accountability. “Whether they have the ability to go home and do things right, that’s another question,” he said. “The Shrine is a volunteer organization.”

Mr. McConnell made it clear that he was not an auditor in the traditional sense, but rather someone who tried to determine the facts in local disputes at the request of the Imperial Potentate. “I don’t get a lot of calls,” he said. “Some years I don’t do any visits.”

Each temple is required to hire an independent auditor to review its accounts annually, and Mr. Phillips said he monitored a variety of temple financial records and was in daily contact with temple financial officers.

Those procedures have not prevented problems, however. Last summer, Charles G. Cumpstone, Mr. Andrews’s predecessor as executive council vice president, told a meeting of top Imperial officials, “We’re still having theft, both by temple employees and by temple officers” at temples with poor cash controls, according to minutes of the meeting. Mr. Cumpstone added that the Shrine “will not tolerate this type of conduct.”

But some Shriners say the opposite is true, contending that whistle-blowers are often forced out of office or subjected to internal disciplinary proceedings.

The leaders of this organization think it is better to persecute the innocent than to prosecute the guilty,” said Clairence Ballard, a member of Cahaba Shriners in Huntsville, Ala., who found that charitable money raised through bingo was being used to cover fraternal, and perhaps personal, expenses and faced an internal inquiry.

Financing Shriner’s Hospitals Reached at his home in Palm Harbor, Fla., Mr. Cumpstone declined to respond to Mr. Ballard’s comments, other than to say, “I worked for the Shrine for 40 years, and I’m proud of my record.”

Mr. Ballard, Mr. Goline and two dozen other Shriners provided in-depth looks at questionable financial activities in two temples, the Suez and Cahaba Shrines, that they say are typical of the problems some temples have had.

An Envelope of Cash

Shortly after becoming Cahaba’s potentate in 2003, Mr. Ballard drove to Decatur, Ala., to oversee the installation of new officers at one of the temple’s affiliated clubs, the Decatur Shrine Club, which was known for a high-grossing bingo game every Tuesday night.

As Mr. Ballard was leaving, a club member handed him an envelope, which he tucked into his blazer pocket, assuming it was a check.

Instead, Mr. Ballard said, “It was $1,000 in cash.”

It is customary for a temple’s affiliated clubs to contribute to the potentate to help defray his costs during his year in office. What concerned Mr. Ballard was that the gift was made to him directly, not through the temple, and in cash.

“It scared me to death because I could have gone out and bought myself a new set of tires with that money and no one would have ever known,” he said.

The incident raised his suspicions, and he began looking into the bingo game. He discovered that three longtime club members held the deed to the clubhouse, contrary to Shrine rules requiring club assets to be held in the name of temples. He also found that the money the club raised selling snacks during bingo games was held in an account controlled solely by the Shriner who managed the kitchen, Lewis Tapscott.

And Mr. Ballard thought the bingo games, which were billed as raising money for the hospitals, were producing more money than the club was handing over to the temple.

Mr. Tapscott said he handled the snack proceeds properly. “I was the one who started that account, and I thought I kept good records and everything matched up,” he said in a telephone interview. He said the deed was in his and other Shriners’ names, rather than the club’s, “so it could be recorded at the courthouse.”

He said bingo money was disbursed to the temple according to a Decatur ordinance that allowed organizations that held bingo games to use 49 percent of the proceeds to cover expenses related to the games and for “internal” charitable purposes.

Mr. Ballard read the ordinance differently. He did not consider a new sign for the clubhouse or repaving the parking lot to be expenses related to bingo games or an “internal charity.”

He thought all the bingo receipts, other than what was needed to cover the costs of electricity, bingo cards and so forth, should go to the Shriners hospitals. (In fact, Shrine rules insist that temples transfer 100 percent of any bingo receipts to the hospitals.)

In June 2003, Mr. Ballard called Mr. Cumpstone for advice about how to establish greater accountability over the club’s finances. “He told me that if I did not have my divan behind me, there was nothing I could do,” Mr. Ballard said. “He said otherwise, even if I set things straight, it would all go back to the way it was once I left office at the end of the year.”

It was prescient advice.

The next month, Mr. Ballard ordered the club to put its property in its name and demanded that it get its financial affairs in order. But in September, the club reported a $2,500 loss on bingo, and Mr. Ballard decided to take over the games. He put together a committee to run the games, and installed cash registers in the snack stand.

On Nov. 25, the first night the new committee ran the game, gross revenues rose 41 percent from the average for the year; net proceeds more than tripled to $2,509. Yet the number of players rose only 14 percent.


That pattern continued over Mr. Ballard’s six remaining weeks as potentate. And the snack bar, which Mr. Tapscott had called a barely break-even operation, began pulling in profits of $100 to $200 a week.


Financing Shriner’s Hospitals While on site, Mr. Ballard stumbled across more evidence that money from the bingo games was missing — five years’ worth of deposit receipts that show the club had been depositing only checks, not the cash it received in payment for bingo cards.

“Our findings are basic internal controls are not in place,” wrote Terry Yancy, Tom Collins and Pat Volonino, the bingo committee members. They figured the club probably raised about $80,000 more than the $34,385 it had reported so far that year.

The games raised $17,124 in the six weeks after Mr. Ballard took over the operation. Nonetheless, John T. Craigmile, Mr. Ballard’s successor, removed the cash registers from the snack bar and dismantled many of the financial control mechanisms Mr. Ballard had put in place, just as Mr. Cumpstone had predicted.

“At any given time, there could be dozens of customers at the food windows, and to ask these mostly elderly volunteers to log in each purchase by description became unmanageable and extremely frustrating,” Mr. Craigmile wrote in answer to a question about why he removed the cash registers.

Mr. McConnell, the Imperial auditor, confirmed many of the bingo committee’s 2003 findings when he was dispatched to Huntsville after The New York Times began making inquiries.

But Mr. McConnell said he found no evidence of embezzlement or stealing. “They had the opportunity to do that, but there was no way to see evidence that happened,” he said in an interview. “If people are sticking $10 bills in their pockets, unless you’re standing right there, you wouldn’t know it.”

In November 2006, Nick Thomas, then the Imperial Potentate, ordered Robert Utley, Cahaba’s 2006 potentate, to come up with $119,000 to cover the money raised from bingo that the club had improperly retained in 2004, 2005 and 2006. Mr. Utley seized the club’s property and threatened to sell it to help raise the money needed under Mr. Thomas’s order.

Last month, Cahaba held a “trial” to consider charges by Decatur club members that Mr. Ballard had falsely accused them of stealing. At that proceeding, just after a club member testified that no theft had taken place, Mr. Ballard’s lawyer played a 2003 tape of the member telling Mr. Ballard, “We knew we took some, but I don’t know that it was a million.”

The Shriner presiding over the trial quickly ended it and brokered a deal to cover Mr. Ballard’s $4,000 in legal expenses in exchange for his agreement not to speak with the news media any more.

A Reform Effort

John Goline joined Suez Shriners in San Angelo in the late 1990s. In 2001, he was elected to the divan and took Richard A. Baumbach’s place as Oriental guide, the bottom rung of a ladder that leads to becoming potentate.

He soon joined forces with Mr. Baumbach, a retired Army officer, who had raised questions about financial accountability and concerns that the Suez Shriners were more interested in having a good time than raising money for the hospitals. “We were spending too much money on parties and travel and not enough on the kids, which is why I joined the organization,” Mr. Baumbach said in an interview.

As he rose and gained greater access to temple financial records, Mr. Baumbach concluded that Suez was using charitable money to cover deficits incurred on fraternal activities like trips, parties and alcohol.

In fact, all money raised by temple members went into a single account at Merrill Lynch that was used to cover all expenses, whether fraternal or charitable, in violation of Shrine rules.

Mr. Baumbach also found that bills were being paid with checks bearing only one signature, another violation, and that the temple had no control over accounts held by its affiliated clubs and thus no control over the money they raised.

He became potentate in 2003 and immediately received a personal reminder of flaws in the temple’s financial controls: The $10,000 he had raised the year before to offset expenses he expected as potentate was gone, tapped by his predecessor to cover temple deficits. “He told me that was the way the system worked,” Mr. Baumbach said.


He set about changing that system. He limited the amount a temple official could spend annually on travel to $750, and refused to reimburse expenses that were not supported by receipts or lacked appropriate approval. He insisted that every check have at least two signatures and that the temple’s name be added to accounts held by its affiliated clubs.

Financing Shriner’s Hospitals “He wouldn’t pay for them to go to the Imperial and other Shrine events because the temple didn’t have the money,” Mr. Goline said, adding that was what turned members against him and Mr. Baumbach.

Mr. Baumbach asked Mr. Goline to dig into the temple’s records to document the abuses he was trying to address. They gained an unexpected ally, Patti Ellsworth, the temple’s secretary, who was troubled by some things she was asked to do, like changing the dates on donation records so they would qualify for a $15,000 matching grant. But when Mr. Baumbach refused to reimburse the temple’s band $3,700 for an unapproved trip to a Texas Shrine Association meeting, the leader of the band called for his resignation.

Then Wayne E. Ulrich, the temple’s treasurer, filed a formal complaint against Mr. Baumbach and Mr. Goline, contending that they had engaged in “false and deceitful conduct” in saying that the tax code required Suez to be a signatory on club accounts when it did not; that Mr. Baumbach had created “a secret bank account” for the temple circus; and that he had treated the band leader, Edwin F. Watson, with “contempt” and “disrespect.”

In a telephone interview, Mr. Ulrich noted that Mr. McConnell, the national auditor, spent three days reviewing the charges. “The matter is closed because the allegations of missing funds were false charges,” Mr. Ulrich said. “They were unprovable.”

But Mr. McConnell did find deficiencies. “Evidence does show monies were commingled, transportation funds were transferred to cover a temporary shortfall in the operating fund, invoices were not turned in for patient airline tickets and a rather cumbersome set of records was maintained,” he wrote.

Reminded of Mr. McConnell’s findings, Mr. Ulrich, who resigned as treasurer in January, said the commingling of money resulted from a “coding error” by the temple’s outside accountants that had been corrected. He said checks with only one signature came from an affiliated club and thus were not a temple problem. “I have no jurisdiction over the finances of that subsidiary organization,” he said.

In December 2004, Mr. Goline was poised to succeed Mr. Baumbach as potentate. But a past potentate announced he wanted the job again and would run against Mr. Goline, a departure from the normal progression of the line.

At the same time, photos of Mr. Goline with Ms. Ellsworth began circulating along with a rumor that they were having an affair — though the pictures simply showed the two standing about an arm’s length apart outside Mr. Goline’s apartment building. They are now married, though both deny being a couple at the time of the rumors.

On the night of the election, busloads of Shriners began pulling into the temple parking lot. “There were people there that night that I never saw before and have never seen since,” Mr. Goline said.

After he lost the election, he placed his fez on his chair and walked out of the temple. Mr. Goline is now a member of another Shrine temple and toys with joining its leadership.

“I was hurt after I lost,” he said. “But I’ve looked back, and almost two years later, I would not do anything different. What I tried to do there was the right thing.”

edit on 26-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Lege et lacrima
edit on 26-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: addition to text



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 02:14 PM
link   
You've never attended any drunken Masonic events with strippers and prostitutes? Really? Well neither have I...ever

the point to why I posted that link was to show that the Shriners are actively persuing charges against people for defamation

Capitalists, anti-communists and US Military personell...and assorted dross? Oh my!!! sounds like Americans to me


Thank you for writing "In Defense of Adam Weishaupt;" And for that, I give you respect

I can assure you, that as a Great Great Grandson of a Grandmaster of a Grand Lodge, having close ties to the Grand Lodge myself, that in my State, liquor is not to be consumed, and never have I heard of sexual acts being commited, I know it Australia, where I am a member of a few Lodges, liquor is consumed before and after lodge, but never to excess. And never with sexual acts

""""After he lost the election, he placed his fez on his chair and walked out of the temple. Mr. Goline is now a member of another Shrine temple and toys with joining its leadership.

“I was hurt after I lost,” he said. “But I’ve looked back, and almost two years later, I would not do anything different. What I tried to do there was the right thing.”""""
sounds like a leadership problem that can happen with groups, the article also quoted of problems with an outside accounting source and that the money problem was taken care of, as with any democratic political roles, leaderships can be challenged. It sounded like to me, Mr Goline, God Bless his soul made some enemies, no orginization is perfect and just because people are supposed to be Brothers, doesn't mean that they can get along. I applaud you Lucy. but despise you at the same time, I applaud you for drawing the truth from us, but despise you because you can't listen, open your heart, your eyes and see the good through the bad. I hope you have time to reflect on this

When is a Man a Mason?
Posted September, 1997


By Rev. Joseph Fort Newton


When he can look out over the rivers, the hills, and the far horizon with a profound sense of his own littleness in the vast scheme of things, and yet have faith, hope, and courage-which is the root of every virtue.

When he knows that down in his heart every man is as noble, as vile, as divine, as diabolic, and as lonely as himself, and seeks to know, to forgive, and to love his fellowman.

When he knows how to sympathize with men in their sorrows, yea, even in their sins-knowing that each man fights a hard fight against many odds.

When he has learned how to make friends and to keep them, and above all how to keep friends with himself.

When he loves flowers, can hunt birds without a gun, and feels the thrill of an old forgotten joy when he hears the laugh of a little child.

When he can be happy and high-minded amid the meaner drudgeries of life.

When star-crowned trees and the glint of sunlight on flowing waters subdue him like the thought of one much loved and long dead.

When no voice of distress reaches his ears i vain, and no hand seeks his aid without response.

When he finds good in every faith that helps any man to lay hold of divine things and sees majestic meanings in life, whatever the name of that faith may be.

When he can look into a wayside puddle and see something beyond mud, and into the fce of the most forlorn fellow mortal and see something beyond sin.

When he knows how to pray, how to love, how to hope.

When he has kept faith with himself, with hs fellowman, and with his God; in his hands a sword for evil, in his heart a bit of a song-glad to live, but not afraid to die!

Such a man has found the only real secret of Masonry, and the one which it is trying to give to all the world.



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 04:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
, I applaud you for drawing the truth from us, but despise you because you can't listen, open your heart, your eyes and see the good through the bad. I hope you have time to reflect on this


Having grown up surrounded by Masons; like most of the Scottish middle classes, they are a rather civilised and friendly lot, though they are rather conservative and tend to have traditional and "old fashioned" values.

As an anti-religionist I do tease the Masons about their silly costumes and their "Sacred Books of the Law" and their "Christian Knights," however the Scottish Masons who are "Christian Knights" are not referring to the religious fanatic "Jesus" as their Christ but to someone else entirely; Masonry is probably better defined as a Messianic Pagan religion, which is merely disguised as Christian, and frankly since I totally despise the Christian and Islamic religions, I have much more in common with the esoteric Masons than you think; however I have nothing in common with the Jesters and Shriners type culture, and frankly most of the Freemasonic rituals just seem to be rater silly pantomime rituals.

Of course the New Age and Neopagan movement is really in a sense an offshoot of Masonry, and many of the "founding fathers" of Neowicca and Neopaganism have been either regular Masons or have been part of the numerous "irregular" esoteric societies of the 19th and 20th centuries; however regular Masonry seems to me have really lost it's way. If Masonry had been affected by the alleged Illuminist infiltration or by the modern Neopagan movement, I think that it would be a much more progressive movement and more militantly anti-Christian, and that rather than spending their time on the Internet "defending" Masonry, Masons could be engaged in the intellectual warfare against Christianity and Islam; but instead they are stuck on the "Oh we have Christians and Muslims in our religion and we welcome them" mantra.

Probably I should post a new thread on Masonry on a different subject which reflects my essential criticisms.

Christianity and Islam are vile religions and the intellectual war waged against them on the Internet is not just a hobby or a game; I believe that it is important for the salvation of humankind; of course some Masons "are" Christians and few are Mulsims but ultimately Masonry's objective does appear to be to de-Christianise and de-Islamicise them.


When he knows how to pray, how to love, how to hope. When he has kept faith with himself, with hs fellowman, and with his God; in his hands a sword for evil, in his heart a bit of a song-glad to live, but not afraid to die!


You really have to give up on this "God" guy; I really don't think that the people at the higher echelons of your religion would approve. I would not in any way wish to suggest that your religious Archons necessarily worship a being called "Satan;" I have no idea what daemons they evoke; but certainly I do believe that they are the personifications of Satan to a Muslim and a Christian, and that is not a bad thing, since those two religions are entirely in need of economically and militarily powerful enemies.

Lux
edit on 26-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 10:55 PM
link   
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

Well, I've read your over long, pretenscious posts and I have come to a conclusion which you may not appresciate or like!
You are terrified of the freemasons!
You have given them more powers than they could ever hope to weild, and have presented them with powers beyond even their contemplation. We all have our boggy man! Mine sits in the government and is plotting how to put my friend and I on the dole. My enemy has a face, a poltical view and a focus that we can all see as being utterly dispicable and obnoxious. Its there, right in front of your eyes...
You! Your enemy is a non existent luciferian normal joe who is plotting to enslave you and the general populace just as long as his family, his wifes family, the families of his childrens friends, his neighbours, friends at work, etc, are not led to the concentration FEMA controlled camps with those who oppose the NWO...
Seriously, do you not see how ridiculous this theory is?



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

Well, I've read your over long, pretenscious posts


Actually I do not write books; I write relatively short essays in very simple English, though I speak numerous languages such as psycho-babble and Kabbalah-babble, but since I wish to be understood internationally and I have a disdain for those who over intellectualise and speak in post modernist philoso-babble, I tend to refrain from all such pretentiousness.

I do understand however that many people are only semi-literate and consider a debate to be an exchange of one-liners and short paragraphs of abuse, however I can be of no assistance to such persons and there are anyway sufficient intelligent and literate persons on the forum to make it worthwhile.


and I have come to a conclusion which you may not appresciate or like!
You are terrified of the freemasons!


My father ("the Devil") is a lifelong Freemason, and like all good sons I love my father and I have absolutely no fear of he and his cabal. In fact I consider them allies in the Final War against Islam and Christianity; I am merely playing the Devil's advocate since I find the Shriner and Jester Masons, and American Masonry in particular to be mostly to be rather vulgar; however this should not be taken as a lack of criticism for British Masons, but I may post other essays on that in the future; however such criticisms should be taken as the criticisms as a person who is steeped in their tradition.


You have given them more powers than they could ever hope to weild, and have presented them with powers beyond even their contemplation.


I have given them no such powers; their powers are great and mighty, but they are primarily military and economic powers; apart from that the powers of Masonry are waning as their reputation wanes, and their religion has fallen into corruption and ignorance; if the truth be known I seek to empower them, but one can never truly empower another person by placing them beyond criticsm; that is simply to flatter them, and flattery is often just a lie which boosts the pride and arrogance of a person who should really be subjected to judgement and corrected.



We all have our boggy man! Mine sits in the government and is plotting how to put my friend and I on the dole. My enemy has a face, a poltical view and a focus that we can all see as being utterly dispicable and obnoxious. Its there, right in front of your eyes...
You! Your enemy is a non existent luciferian normal joe


It seems to me that only relatively few of Masons can be defined as Luciferians, and the remainder as pseudo-Luciferians. Luciferianism is about self deification, self empowerment and absolute total rebellion against God; whereas many Freemasons seem to be "men of God" and are thus the allies of humankind's most vile enemy.



who is plotting to enslave you and the general populace just as long as his family, his wifes family, the families of his childrens friends, his neighbours, friends at work, etc, are not led to the concentration FEMA controlled camps with those who oppose the NWO...
Seriously, do you not see how ridiculous this theory is?


I think that by the NWO, most people seem to be referring to what Neomarxists refer to as the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism," which is a very real economic dictatorship. We are currently witnessing the advanced stages of World Capitalist Revolution and the economic enslavement of humankind under the dictatorship of Capital. I take a traditional Neomarxist position on that, however if you do consider all this to be a conspiracy theory, and you do not understand what is happening, perhaps you are just living in your own little world and I can be of no assistance to you.

In light of the threat of militant Islam and the rise of Christian Neofascism in America, there are also benevolent aspects to the current economic dictatorship and Capitalist Imperialism, and fortunately the global economic elites are generally neither Muslims nor Christians, though they certainly are militant gangster Capitalists, however there are always dialectical human forces in opposition to them, which is why Europe is partly socialist and is quite different to the ganser Capitalism of America.

We have been on this earth for probably almost 300,000 years; if the Creation of a New Heaven and a New Earth takes 100 years or 1000 years, it will simply be the "blink of an eye" in comparision to our age as a species. Humankind is still evolving and it will take time and education to cure the memetic diseases of religion and the evils of Capitalism; perhaps in 100 years from now the children of a future more humane world will think of the current inhabitants of earth as religious primtives and savages.

With regards to FEMA camps, I am not an American and am internationally mobile; there are many tyrannies on earth currently which are much like prision camps with primitive laws, but I choose not to remain for long in such places and I doubt that I shall ever return to America; I have alreadly spent too much time in that nation of religious fanatics and gangster Capitalists. I consider most Americans who are not part of the alternative modernist subculture to be totally beyond salvation anyway.

If the American Christians are rounded up and thrown into camps, I would consider that to be a karmic reaction, since such vile fanatics are anyway awaiting a genocidal theocratic dictator (a king of kings) who will slaughter all unbelievers, and their religion has a centuries' long history of war, tyranny, barbarism, genocide, inquisitions and religious bigotry which the Christians generally appear proud of. They have had two thousands years to manifest heaven on earth, and all they have created is hell; I think that is long enough to substantiate that their religious experiment has failed. The future world will be socialist, not Christian or Islamic, and the religious fanatics will not be welcome in such a world.

Lux
edit on 27-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: "Diabolus fecit, ut id facerem," and also the text was not diabolical enough.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:25 AM
link   
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

While I thank you and respect you for replying to my post I have to admit at being completely confused by your response. From what I can gather, your Dad is the devil and the freemasons are an army not a harmless group of individuals who have no more influence or power than a social club!
A typical schoolyard bully only has power over his victims because he threatens and scares them into submission. His power relies totally on those he is threatening believing he is capable of hurting them...He doesn't have to raise a hand in violence just as long as his so called victims believe he is capable of physical violence. You are setting yourself up as being a victim purely because you seem to be intimidated and scared by the freemasons. I, however, don't believe it for a second. A mason has no more power or ability to intimidate a person than me or you... Lots of strange and weird rituals. Many odd beliefs. But no power whatsoever... You are worrying about nothing.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 01:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

While I thank you and respect you for replying to my post I have to admit at being completely confused by your response. From what I can gather, your Dad is the devil


I was being satirical; it is term of endearment I have for him.


and the freemasons are an army not a harmless group of individuals who have no more influence or power than a social club!


In the UK, the Masons have around 40 Lodges exclusively for military and ex military personnel and their Grand Master holds the highest rank in British army. You may consider it to be a social club, but I can assure you that many Masons consider themselves to be knights (soldiers) in a religious army; however since there will probably be a major war between the West and the vile religion of Islam, this is not at all a bad thing; on the contrary; it is entirely necessary.

If I was to describe them as a Messianic Neopagan army, I would be praising them, not criticising them, as unfortunately, this is entirely necessary in this age, since both Christianity and Islam are entirely militant, apocalyptic and genocidal phenomena.



A typical schoolyard bully only has power over his victims because he threatens and scares them into submission. His power relies totally on those he is threatening believing he is capable of hurting them...He doesn't have to raise a hand in violence just as long as his so called victims believe he is capable of physical violence. You are setting yourself up as being a victim purely because you seem to be intimidated and scared by the freemasons. I, however, don't believe it for a second. A mason has no more power or ability to intimidate a person than me or you... Lots of strange and weird rituals. Many odd beliefs. But no power whatsoever... You are worrying about nothing.



I suspect this is all rather Freudian; could it not be "yourself" who is afraid of the Masons and you merely project this onto myself, since I intuit a certain hysteria and paranoia (flase fear) in your tone.

I can assure you that relatively speaking, I consider the Masons as Neopagan allies in the war against Christianity and Islam and I cannot think of any reason why I should fear them. If they did not exist, the world would probably be in a far more terrible state.

I think that there is a certain unhealthy cult mentality which just places the Masons beyond all criticism, but I am not affected by that disease, since I am not a Mason, but rather from a different Neopagan tradition.

To restate, when I posted the OP on a British forum over a year ago, the other British Masons on that forum all agreed that the behaviour of the Shriners and Jesters was appalling; in fact I read that the UGLE (United Grand Lodge of Enland) has threatened to expell any British Mason who joins the Shriners. This forum however is not a British forum as we do have Shriners such as "Theforgottenone" here and American Masons who seem to be entirely defensive of the matter, with the notable exception of Augustus Masonicus.

Criticism of Masonry should not be confused with Antimasonry, especially since most Antimasons are Christians, and I am an evangelical anti-Christian.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” Churchill

In fact, a modern philosophical education trains the mind to be analytical, critical and self critical. Without criticism there can be no debate, no education and no dialectical evolution. On the other hand, to the uneducated or "mind controlled person" sycophancy ("a submissive, servile, uncritical lemming like, fawning flatterer") is a virtue.

Since I am overtly Luciferian and the Masons are constantly being accused by the Christian vermin of being Luciferian, I am perfectly entitled to subject them to the same rigorous and militantly anti-Christian standards that I expect from myself, since the behaviour of the Shriners and Jesters is rather spoiling my repuation, my chastisement of them is perfectly appropriate; they are anyway accustomed to the process of subjecting themselves to "hazing;" and ridicule within their cult.

Had I posted the OP on any of the exclusively British Masonic discussion groups, I would expect similar revulsion; however were you to accuse such British Masons of being "afraid" of the Shriners and Jesters because they hold them in contempt, I think they would find such a suggestion to be similarly preposterous. I cannot imagine why the British and American Masons who are critical of the Shriner and Jester Masons would fear them, apart from being "afraid" they will spoil their reputation, but that is very much a metaphorical use of the term fear.



My judgement on the Shriner and Jester Masons is comparatively gentle since it is only a verbal judgement, but I am quite sure that there are others within Masonry who are similarly not amused, and who would take personal offense, who would not restrict such judgement to merely verbal abuse and who would consider behaviour which brings Masonry into disrepute a violation of sacred oaths, which of course can have rather dreadful and terrible consequences; if anyone should be afraid, it should probably be certain Jester's and Shriners, however I have no idea how seriously the American Masons take their oaths; apparently to many of them it they seem to be a bit of a joke, but were they to be taken seriously the consequences would be servere and unspeakable. I merely sit in judgement on the living and the dead; I am not the executioner of my judgements.

Further since most of the American Masons here appear to hold me in contempt for even raising the matter at all, rather than holding the Shriner and Jester Masons in contempt, it may well be that such attitudes of cult sycophancy are endemic in American Masonry.



"Apres mois le deluge."

Lucifer
"Advocatus diaboli"
edit on 27-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: The text was not diabolical enough.
edit on 27-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: The text was "still" not diabolical enough. I seem not to be in a diabolical enough mood today. Not enough Christian Flesh and Blood to devour.
edit on 27-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Added some diabolical images.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 03:02 PM
link   
My friend I still say you're letting your imagination get the better of your common sense.

Even though you deny it, I feel you're are scared and intimidated by the masons. Beleive me, they have no more ability to harm you and me than anyone else. There's good and bad out there in the wide world and some of those bad are undoubtedly freemasons. There the ones you are concentrating on and building up to massive proportions. However some of those good out there are also freemasons, a fact which you don't seem willing to address.
Live and let live...



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 07:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
My friend I still say you're letting your imagination get the better of your common sense.

Even though you deny it, I feel you're are scared and intimidated by the masons.


I have already responded to your preposterous allegations, and you insist on repeating them; you are simply rambling, like a troll for Jesus, or a drunk at a bus stop, who keeps repeating the same statements over and over and will not listen to reason, or to any response; therefore I consider it a waste of time to keep attempting to respond to you in a civil and intelligent manner; to restate, I would suggest that it is more likely that it is you yourself you who are deeply afraid of something or someone or some phantom perhaps, and that you are simply projecting your own fear onto others. I have no fear of God, nor fear of the Masons, nor fear of death, nor eternity; it is God and his flatterers who should be in fear of me.

With regards to my "imagination," all the allegations here are sourced from media articles and most of the testimonial allegations are from American Masons themselves; I suggest that you tak the matter up with them, or provide evidence that the allegations are frabricated.

No further questions addressed to me by yourself will be responded to in a reasonable manner I can be of no assistance to you.

Lux
"Advocatus diaboli"
edit on 27-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Less diabolical



posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 03:30 PM
link   
The point of this thread unveiled:


Originally posted by Lucifer777
Addendum.

I should point out that my criticisms of modern Masonry are intended to show that the popular conspiracy theory whch suggests that the modern "regular" Masons have been infiltrated by the radical philosophical and political inheritors of the 18th century Illuminists is clearly false, and that if such an attempt was made by the Illuminists it appears to have completely failed. Such a conspiracy theory seems to be generally promoted by competing anti-Communist Christian cultists of the "Henry Makow" ilk who are competing for market share in the multi-billion dollar cult religion business.


Orly? This is historical fact and is based on verified historical documents. This infiltration continues to this day, after all it was known then and it is known now that the Masons are very powerful. A dark organization like the Illuminati has no alternative but to go under cover and try to gain power with hidden allies. If you would look into the history of the KGB for example you would find great similarities. The mafia also applies this practice, even the police does this.
Let's be real here. AW was a terrorist "avant la lettre" and an enemy of freedom. I read his works and I will post to you an excerpt that I find most intriguing:

"The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always covered by another name, and another occupation. None is better than the three lower degrees of Free Masonry; the public is accustomed to it, expects little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it. Next to this, the form of a learned or literary society is best suited to our purpose, and had Free Masonry not existed, this cover would have been employed; and it may be much more than a cover, it may be a powerful engine in our hands. By establishing reading societies, and subscription libraries, and taking these under our direction, and supplying them through our labours, we may turn the public mind which way we will." - Adam Weishaupt, founder of the Illuminati in John Robison's Proofs of a Conspiracy, 1793.

Bye bye to your theory. A one-sighted view of a predetermined individual? You know, it would be much easier to be objective when you wouldn't have so many presumptions. A little humility once in a while would bring great new insights so I have found out myself (but Crowly doesn't teach that does he).

As for the Shriners: there's not enough information to support the claim that the corruption is a wide-spread phenomenon. They sure do file a lot of law suits but it seems to be normal for an organization of their size. This is big business, it's all about the money, everything in our society is about money. They do charity, yes, but they also fare well with it: money, standing, reputation, power - and we all know power corrupts.
As for the Newsvine articles from Sandy Frost: I still prefer articles from mainstream media over someone mixing personal opinion with fact. And is there anyone else there to back this up? I see very little confirming sources.
(I agree that this is not a good charity organization to donate to.)



posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 03:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by raknjak
As for the Newsvine articles from Sandy Frost: I still prefer articles from mainstream media over someone mixing personal opinion with fact. And is there anyone else there to back this up? I see very little confirming sources.
I consider Sandy a blogger and not a credible news source. While she can occasionally link to credible outside sources, her own writing always shows a bias and a need to generalize and lump Jesters, Shriners, and Masons all together. By her description, the actions of one or two bad Jesters means that all of Masonry is corrupt. I sometimes wonder if part of her axe against Shriners is that they party and drink a lot, and Sandy is 28 years sober by her own admission...



posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 04:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

"I have already responded to your preposterous allegations, and you insist on repeating them; you are simply rambling, like a troll for Jesus, or a drunk at a bus stop, who keeps repeating the same statements over and over and will not listen to reason, or to any response; therefore I consider it a waste of time to keep attempting to respond to you in a civil and intelligent manner; to restate, I would suggest that it is more likely that it is you yourself you who are deeply afraid of something or someone or some phantom perhaps, and that you are simply projecting your own fear onto others." quote...

I can come to no other conclusion than you are an embittered, masonic hating, certifiable loon! You try, but fail miserably, to insult me for repeating a statement and then you yourself go on to repeat your ludicrous claims about me being scared of the masons! Its okay for you to repeat yourself but not others..? Your repeated, ridiculous claims aimed at the masons are only equalled by your over inflated sense of importance. You see yourself as some freedom fighter, here to reveal the terrible secrets of freemasonry, yet you can't see further than the end of your nose!
I say again (sorry, its only you that is allowed to repeat themselves Isn't it?) freemasonry is a weird and often whacky cult but it is no more dangerous than you are.. Infact, having read your tedious posts, it Isn't as dangerous as you are... I've yet to meet a freemason who has threatened to bore me to death!
Leave the masons alone and find a hobby!



posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 06:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
My friend I still say you're letting your imagination get the better of your common sense.

Even though you deny it, I feel you're are scared and intimidated by the masons.



I have already responded to your preposterous allegations, and you insist on repeating them; you are simply rambling, like a troll for Jesus, or a drunk at a bus stop, who keeps repeating the same statements over and over and will not listen to reason, or to any response; therefore I consider it a waste of time to keep attempting to respond to you in a civil and intelligent manner; to restate, I would suggest that it is more likely that it is you yourself you who are deeply afraid of something or someone or some phantom perhaps, and that you are simply projecting your own fear onto others. I have no fear of God, nor fear of the Masons, nor fear of death, nor eternity; it is God and his flatterers who should be in fear of me.



You Offer neither proof nor legitimate sources to back your Allegations, You Insult Freemasonry That as an Organisation has Helped thousands of people and bought nothing but Care and Kindness to the Wider community, Since there is Solid Proof of this and Absolutely None to support your fabricated nonsense
i tend to frown upon your complete lack of Understanding and Ethics.
Thats fine with me, You can sit around picking peices of disinformation and Tripe from the Internet all you like, But while you do, The Masons are out there making a Difference, Who says every member is perfect? No one...wake up the World is Screwed up! And anyone, ANYONE who gives up their Time And Their Money to help others Has My Respect, They should Have your's Too but unfortunately you seem to Have one of those minds like likes to Portray the Best things in Life as Twisted.

edit on 1/3/11 by TedHodgson because: (no reason given)
edit on 1/3/11 by TedHodgson because: (no reason given)





new topics

top topics



 
12
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join