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On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters.

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posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by TedHodgson
 


"Dialectics is the science of arguing well"

Abuse and simple contradiction which is devoid of argument and evidence is a poor substitute for intelligent argument and evidence itself and is generally a cry of the despairing in debate, and is unworthy of intelligent consideration. Unforunately this sums up the general quality of responses from Masonic apologists on this thread.

To restate, the allegations against the American Masonic societies on this thread have come from various media reports, including the New York Times and cite the testimonials of other American Masons themselves; I am not personally a witness to any of the allegations. No amount of abuse and childish temper tantums will be sufficient to negate the evidence presented in the various articles.

All that has been established here by the Masonic apologists is that they are generally suffering from the effects of cult mind control and that they are unable to be analytical, self critical and intellectually honest when it comes to their own particular brand name of religion.


Above: a six minute lesson on contradiction and abuse.


Above: for those who have difficulties in grasping the "Argument Clinic" might I suggest brain removal to improve your condition.


NB. All pointy hats should be removed prior to performing a labotamy.


Or just continue to demonstrate your condition.

Lux
"Advocatus diaboli"

edit on 1-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Less diabolical




posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 


well sir, it appears none of us are worthy of debating you, so I suggest you find another group and see if they are smarter, and can argue better. I can't say we will miss you.

Please be very careful not to let the door hit you where the good lord split you.


May the blessings of Heaven rest upon you.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 08:36 AM
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My Judgement. "Summa Dialectica."

"Advocatus diaboli horriblis"


My judgement on the Masons on this forum, in general, is that they are simply not here to argue with "any" of their critics on the forum by using the philosophical methods and ground rules of "debate."

The Masons on ATS appear to be here to simply heckle critics "by all means necessary," and to resort to various forms of temper tantrums, contradiction, abuse and smart ass one-liners, when they cannot produce intelligent argument and evidence which refutes the stated evidence and criticisms against them, much of which, on this thread, comes from the testimonials of American Masons themselves.

It is not a question of finding a "group" where Masons can argue better; the debating "form" of Masons throughout the Interent is generally, with some notable exceptions, of the standard one might expect when verbally engaging a gang of drunken football or "frat house" hooligans.

The maxim "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" does not appear to have been incorporated into the Masonic group-think.

Ultimately the purpose of the modern esoteric tradition is to invoke (personify) Thoth (the Egyptian god of wisdom) and to transform the "fool" into a "wise person," and by "fool," I in no way mean to use this in the derogatory sense; the "fool" is just all children and neophytes (novices); whereas the fool inversed is the adult who has not learned the lessons of the paths and experiences of life, and who has placed themselves beyond correction, instruction and salvation.

I find very little evidence of the wisdom and debating methods of a philosopher in the Masons here; on the contrary; they appear to behave no differently to any other gang of organised Capitalists when subjected to criticism; I would expect a very similar form of verbal response were I to have raised criticisms of the Bloods and the Crips, from their gang members.

It seems that much of my time has been spent on this thread attempting to correct the "form" of the responses; albeit seemingly a futile attempt with the inversed fool, but hopefully such an attempt will portray the fool in such a way that others are encouraged to move further ahead on the path of life that the fool is stuck upon.

A definition of "arrogance" is a person who will never be corrected, and who will never concede points in debate when shown to be errant, and who is thus unworthy of his teachers. Nevertheless I expect that such archetypal fools, who continue their natural foolishness into adulthood, will continue to "open their mouths" and to continue to unleash a cacophony of abuse and smart-ass one-liners, and I doubt that the Masons here are capable of much more.

Since this is a public debate which will leave a trail in heaven (i.e., on the Internet and in human memory), long after the thread has died, and is filled with so many search engine keywords, that it appears on Google front pages for various Masonic subjects, my position here is now, and has been prior, to merely attempt to fairly judge the responses to media articles critical of American Masonry, and thus far my judgement is in favour of the critics of Shriner and Jester Masonry (most of the critics being Freemasons themselves), and I believe that my judgement and behaviour here has been impeccible, and no the no amount of smart ass comments from Masons here is likely to change that.

It is better to speak calmly and with civility with an AK-47 in one's hand than to scream and shout with a wooden stick. My judgement is merely judgement by the word. Those who do not accept fair judgement unleash great and terrible and dreadful and wrathful karmic forces against themselves which none but themselves can alleviate.

I make no appeal to the gods for justice; for it is the gods who must appeal to me, and I only demand of the gods that they execute the sentencing of my just, righteous and "ex offico" infallble judgements, or bear my eternal wrath.

May the Goddess have mercy on their souls, for I certainly will not.

"The wheels of karma are slow to grind, but grind they do."

Lux
No mercy or quarter on they who deserve none.


edit on 2-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Lege et lacrima


edit on 2-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: The text was not diabolical enough.

edit on 2-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis, and the text was not not diabolical enough.


edit on 2-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Text edited to be "slightly" less diabolical; too much Chistian blood and flesh consumed today.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 

look sport, you can talk real good. You can use big words and it's abundantly clear that you can string a WHOLE BUNCH of them together in a row. But you want to debate things that don't make any sense. I know nothing of bisexual anti-Christian gatherings, so you and I have little in common. You know nothing of american masonry and apparently have trouble dealing with that fact. The only thing we do agree on is that the Illuminati wasn't an evil organization and Crowley wasn't an evil person. You seem to think you are way more educated than us, and you might be. You try to belittle everyone who disagrees with you, and that's fine too. I just think you should find a new hobby, because I don't think anyone here wants to spent the inordinate amount of time it takes to read your dry, arrogant posts that amount to very little. Go boar you students, we didn't sign up for your class.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 

"The wheels of karma are slow to grind, but grind they do." quote.

Grind, a bit like your posts on my patience!
Who are these masonic apologists you refer to? And, while we are at it, what do they have to apologise for? You really have a bee in your empty vacuous bonnet concerning the masons don't you, which is made even worse when you consider that your father was one and you grew up amongst them... I think the only person here who deserves an apology is your father from you for trying to make out on a public forum that he belongs to some evil, world dominating, group who plan to enslave everyone... Maybe you would better serve your cause if you aimed your ridiculous accusations at your father and let him put you straight!?
Oh, by the way, if you respond one or two brief sentences will surfice and please, for the sake of my sanity, don't post the picture of the old guys wearing the white robes and pointy hats again! I found it amusing the first time but now it's just getting boring...



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

...I just think you should find a new hobby, because I don't think anyone here wants to spent the inordinate amount of time it takes to read your dry, arrogant posts that amount to very little. Go boar you students, we didn't sign up for your class.

Thank you, network dude, for stating what so many--I'm sure--feel. OP hasn't supported his claims. His "attacks" aren't even amusing to read. "Dry" was too kind. I mean, I admit it, I like to read "slams"--whether directed at me or someone else--that are entertaining, but the operative word is "entertaining."

I stopped reading his replies way back. I mean, I peruse the new ones occasionally, but his consistency in boring me utterly & completely is freaking amazing. The replies from you God-forsaken Masons have made me giggle however. Much appreciated.


Do you really, network dude, find the OP an intellectual? The prefix "pseudo" comes to my mind in relation to the OP.

There are times that I've felt sorry for lil' lucifer777. That he's a malcontent is obvious...he just doesn't have the ability for the insight that would allow him to see how transparent he truly is. And that is sad.

I'm sure that there is a good chap in there somewhere, though. He has potential, still, methinks. But only if he still has the ability to come to grips with the oh-so-obvious truth that he is an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. "Man Up," Lucifer...it will go a long ways in this life.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

look sport, you can talk real good. You can use big words and it's abundantly clear that you can string a WHOLE BUNCH of them together in a row. But you want to debate things that don't make any sense.


This is "not" a debate. If it were a debate, argument and evidence would be offered which refutes the allegations in this thread; to restate; temper tantrums and the constant hurling of abuse and contradiction do not constitute intelligent argument.


I know nothing of bisexual anti-Christian gatherings, so you and I have little in common. You know nothing of american masonry and apparently have trouble dealing with that fact. The only thing we do agree on is that the Illuminati wasn't an evil organization and Crowley wasn't an evil person. You seem to think you are way more educated than us, and you might be. You try to belittle everyone who disagrees with you, and that's fine too. I just think you should find a new hobby, because I don't think anyone here wants to spent the inordinate amount of time it takes to read your dry, arrogant posts that amount to very little. Go boar you students, we didn't sign up for your class.


Again, nothing whatsoever here which refutes any of the stated allegations in the thread against the American Masons. Belittling everyone who raises criticisms of Freemasons and Freemasonry seems to be the "sport" of the Masons on this forum. I personally tend not to respond to abuse with abuse. I am not at all sorry if this spoils your fun.

With regards to knowing "nothing" about American Freemasons; this is tantamount to saying that an person who studies a subject, such as for example, the American Indians or "Thomas Jefferson," and who has never met an American Indian or Thomas Jefferson, knows nothing about them, and that education is a waste of time.

Most people in the world have never met an American Freemason, and understand them only by reading articles, such as the critical articles posted on this thread; articles which give the American Freemasons here the opportunity to refute claims against them or to simply throw out a childish cacophany of abuse; that is entirely up to them.

With regards to: "because I don't think anyone here wants to spent the inordinate amount of time it takes to read your dry, arrogant posts that amount to very little," I think that you would be better only to speak on behalf of yourself; there are hundreds of millions of people on the Internet, and some of these persons "do" use Google searches on subjects such as this one, which gives them the opportunity to know at least "something" about the behaviour and practices of American Masons and their use of charity money to put on drunken events with strippers, prostitutes, kidnapped sex slaves (trafficked women) and child prostitutes .

With regards to "arrogance" this adjective refers to the child who always knows better than his teachers and the adult who will never be corrected or criticised, and in my judgement it defines the attitutes of Masonic cultists on this forum.


Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

"The wheels of karma are slow to grind, but grind they do." quote.

Grind, a bit like your posts on my patience!
Who are these masonic apologists you refer to? And, while we are at it, what do they have to apologise for? You really have a bee in your empty vacuous bonnet concerning the masons don't you, which is made even worse when you consider that your father was one and you grew up amongst them... I think the only person here who deserves an apology is your father from you for trying to make out on a public forum that he belongs to some evil, world dominating, group who plan to enslave everyone... Maybe you would better serve your cause if you aimed your ridiculous accusations at your father and let him put you straight!?
Oh, by the way, if you respond one or two brief sentences will surfice and please, for the sake of my sanity, don't post the picture of the old guys wearing the white robes and pointy hats again! I found it amusing the first time but now it's just getting boring...


Again, simply abuse; nothing here which refutes the allegations made in the thread. Irrelevant. See either the "Monty Python" argument shop video or the "brian removal" video above.


Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

...I just think you should find a new hobby, because I don't think anyone here wants to spent the inordinate amount of time it takes to read your dry, arrogant posts that amount to very little. Go boar you students, we didn't sign up for your class.

Thank you, network dude, for stating what so many--I'm sure--feel. OP hasn't supported his claims.


It is for the staff at the New York Times, Masons for Dummies and other websites where the articles critical of Shriner and Jester Masonry are sourced from, to be able to support their claims if challenged. A general claim made by the Masons here, is that the alleged criticisms against US Masonic oganisations regarding endemic corruption and the misuse of charity funds have been fabricated, and it is for the Masons to offer argument and evidence to support such a claim



His "attacks" aren't even amusing to read. "Dry" was too kind. I mean, I admit it, I like to read "slams"--whether directed at me or someone else--that are entertaining, but the operative word is "entertaining."

I stopped reading his replies way back. I mean, I peruse the new ones occasionally, but his consistency in boring me utterly & completely is freaking amazing. The replies from you God-forsaken Masons have made me giggle however. Much appreciated.


Do you really, network dude, find the OP an intellectual? The prefix "pseudo" comes to my mind in relation to the OP.

There are times that I've felt sorry for lil' lucifer777. That he's a malcontent is obvious...he just doesn't have the ability for the insight that would allow him to see how transparent he truly is. And that is sad.

I'm sure that there is a good chap in there somewhere, though. He has potential, still, methinks. But only if he still has the ability to come to grips with the oh-so-obvious truth that he is an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. "Man Up," Lucifer...it will go a long ways in this life.


Again, just the same old, same old, childish abuse as a substitute for intelligent argument. Irrelevant to refuting the allegations made in the thread.

"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something."


Lux

edit on 2-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: addition to text



Addendum

Just to get back on track; since I have been criticised prior for only posting "part" of the American Freemason, Chris Hodapp's article on the Jester and Shriner Masons from the "Freemasons for Dummies" I think it would be appropriate to post the entire article.



Above: American Jester Masons photographed while on their half million dollar (paid for from charity funds) weekend trip to Brazil with Brazilain prostitutes (who were allegedly aged from 11 years old upwards).




Sunday, March 30, 2008
The Trouble With Jesters


freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com...

There has been much "who-shot-john" going on over at The Burning Taper for the last few weeks over the reporting of scandals involving the Shrine's Royal Order of Jesters. The Jesters are an invitation-only group within Shrinedom whose motto is "mirth is king," and is considered by some to be an inner circle within the organization. I'll leave you to discover the BTs blog entries on your own for the details, but there are at least two major investigations going on concerning the group involving prostitution and violation of the federal Mann Act.

On the one hand, for anyone to say they are shocked - shocked! - to discover Shriners having anything to do with prostitutes is intellectually disingenuous. Shriners, strippers and hookers have been keeping each other company for over a century.

And while some of us can sit in the parlor and tsk over it being antithetical to the tenets of Freemasonry (which it is), the Babbitry of the past, combined with the Shrine's post-WWII excesses, has been institutionalized by both the Shrine and the public's perception. Lest anyone forget George Carlin's punctuating 1976 punch line, "Drink up, Shriners." Or 1960's "Bye Bye Birdie's" musical number in which a group of Shriners think a young lady straying into their dinner is the stripper for the evening.

There is no wonder that a certain percentage of men who join the Shrine have specifically come looking for the Shrine they've heard about. They are looking for the secret society that has the strippers and the hookers and the county sheriff guarding the door who sees they get home okay.

Not all men join the Shrine out of the altruism of helping crippled kids. I actually had a man try to sell me on Shrine membership by saying, "You can drink all night for five bucks, and besides, we un-f***-up the crippled kids!"

Something slightly less than the Masonic ideal.

After the Shrine parade in Salt Lake City on St. Patrick's day, about a dozen of us fez-wearing loud-mouths (all perfectly sober, I might add) drove to the suburbs to get their 1939 Yellowstone tour bus weighed at the local truck stop. Some Shrines get drunk and bring in the strippers. Salt Lake City guys get their bus weighed. It was bitter cold, and we drove through town acting like, well, Shriners, with the top down, yelling what we thought were zingers to pedestrians, and generally lowering the property values. You know, the stuff guys generally do as teenagers, and living up to the mission of putting some of the boy back into the man. At the truck stop, I had one of those defining moments, curiously. A man perhaps in his twenties came out and said he wanted to shake the hand of every Shriner in that bus. He had received free care from the Salt Lake Shrine Hospital as a child that had allowed him to walk.

So the Shrine is a conundrum to me. The hospitals are among the finest philanthropic missions in this country. And if they get paid for by grownups who sometimes act like high school imbeciles, well, maybe society needs to loosen its corset a bit.

On the other hand, I don't disagree with the sentiment of those who say that some of the Shrine's institutionalized excesses are at odds with Freemasonry's tenets of morality. I suspect that argument has gone on since the 1870s when the teetotalers found out the Knickerbocker boys were sopping it up in town because the Methodists threw the booze out of the lodge.

But on a larger level, these guys are living in the past. The stock 1920-50s characters of sad-faced George Babbitts, Willy Lomans and Crazy Guggenheims lined up at the bar, comparing lodge pins, pinching waitresses and sneaking out on the wife have largely passed on to the choir invisible. Such outlets of middle-class frustrations may have been a staple of the pre- and post-WWII culture, but it has not been embraced by the children of the Baby Boomers. It is arguable that men don't step out on their wives as much anymore, they just get divorced - or don't get married to begin with. Online porn and the Playboy Channel have brought voyeurism and private personal prurient gratification into the home. And STDs have helped to make the regular practice of playing rumpy-pumpy with professional girlz a less than harmless indiscretion. That hasn't stopped the business entirely, as Elliot Spitzer proved in New York by dropping 80-large to have his clock cleaned. But it's just not a wink-wink-nudge-nudge kind of activity in US society anymore. Which makes the activities of the Jesters not just un-masonic and illegal, but a sort of creepy anachronism for a group to be engaging in.

I don't have a problem with Brother Widow's Son posting the lurid details of the Jesters on his blog site. Thomas Hardy said, "If a way to the better there be, it exacts a full look at the worst." And if a clot of idiots want to drag Freemasonry into the whorehouse by association and besmirch the fraternity by whoring it up with underage girls, they need to be exposed loudly, and their local Grand Master needs to give them the Order of the Boot. I'm not a Jester, and couldn't tell you what goes on at their gatherings with any degree of certainty. But I find it especially moronic and irresponsible for the Jesters to have an online shop selling tee-shirts featuring a cartoon Jester climbing a well endowed woman and burying his face in her ample balcony, in light of the current state and federal investigations into their behavior. If nothing else, it's a little like Bruno Hauptmann leaving the ladder outside of the Lindbergh house.

I keep coming back to the same conclusion over and over. The Shrine needs to split from Freemasonry. The two groups need to go their own way. I know there has been shrieking on both sides that such a split will kill membership on both sides, but I don't agree with that anymore. Men who believe in the aims of both organizations will continue to belong to both. The Shrine will be able to draw from a larger pool of potential recruits. And if Freemasonry returns to its pre-1843 roots, the way the rest of the Masonic universe has remained, combining its tavern-hall, social origins with its Enlightenment-era philosophy of tolerance and brotherhood, the two groups will get along just fine. The rest of the Masonic world never barred alcohol from the post-lodge experience, so they never had any need to create Shrines and Grottos to begin with. Outside of the US, it's common and perfectly respectable for the Master to announce, "the lodge is closed and the bar is open." There's no need to act like idiot children because they treat Masons like adults.

On another mailing list a Mason made the remark that those who were criticizing the Jesters had "determined the length of another Brothers Cable Tow. I didn't realize that becoming a Mason meant that Christian Morality governed the fraternity. I believe that the then King David had many Concubines and for that matter plural wives. . . Did the brothers do something that in the 20th and 21st century is considered in inappropriate? Well according to the laws of the United States yes. When I used to hire a lot of Mexican workers many of these workers claimed that they were married. These workers were usually found out to be minors and yet they had children of their own with a young woman who was underage and they claimed to be husband and wife. Some of these young people were under the age of 16, now who's morality are you going to condemn these people with..."

If ever there was an argument for the Shrine to clean up its act, or to move away from Freemasonry, it's right there, in a sociopath's relativistic defense of hiring 13 year old prostitutes to live by the motto "mirth is king."

________________

Christopher L. Hodapp is the editor of the "Journal of The Masonic Society." He is the author of the best-selling "Freemasons For Dummies," and "Solomon's Builders: Freemasons, Founding Fathers and the Secrets of Washington D.C



edit on 2-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Addendum



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 

L-Dog, it would be really nice to see your thoughts on subjects not related to religion or various philosophies. You are bright, I confess, but you do get a little monotonous thematically.

I realize it's because you have strong feelings, and a sense of mission, in regards to the subject. Everyone should have the chutzpah to stick up for what they believe in and you certainly do that.

But we have a pretty cool "community" here and it would be neat to see you loosen up a lil' bit and have some fun with us sometimes.


I'm actually stuck on some research--I can't find what I'm looking for--in regards an 'argument' I wanna make on an upcoming thread and I have a feeling you could help me out. You game?

Peace.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

L-Dog, it would be really nice to see your thoughts on subjects not related to religion or various philosophies. You are bright, I confess, but you do get a little monotonous thematically.

I realize it's because you have strong feelings, and a sense of mission, in regards to the subject. Everyone should have the chutzpah to stick up for what they believe in and you certainly do that.

But we have a pretty cool "community" here and it would be neat to see you loosen up a lil' bit and have some fun with us sometimes.


I'm actually stuck on some research--I can't find what I'm looking for--in regards an 'argument' I wanna make on an upcoming thread and I have a feeling you could help me out. You game?

Peace.


Unfortunately I am subscribed to around 500+ discussion forums and I really don't engage in debate and discussion for personal amusement; though obviously that is what the Masonic jesters are doing here; however I am unable to assist them and I have no desire to join in with their "fun;" on the contrary.

With regards to your "argument," I refer you to the Monty Python video above with regards to what an argument is "not."



However... the avoidance of debate, and the utilisation of contradiction, abuse, smart ass oneliners and numerous argument fallacies (See www.nizkor.org...) seems to be the general rule of thumb for Masonic apologists on this forum; and I will unfortunately be unable to assist in their education, as the philosophical method is only useful in showng the arrogant to be arrogant and the fool to be a fool; it cannot "transform" the premeditatedly foolish and arrogant; there will always be some who are totally beyond salvation, and who wish to play the fool; thus I think "Royal Order of Jesters" is an appropriate title for an American Masonic society; I am sure that Her Majesty would approve; and even His Satanic Majesty will need some eternal fools as playthings to amuse himself with.

Lux


edit on 2-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Text edited to be "slightly" less diabolical; too much Chistian blood and flesh consumed today.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:50 PM
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Can someone on here who is a freemason please tell me if the pledge altar as described above really exists...?
Because if it does can I lend it next Halloween to keep the nuisance Trick Or Treaters away from my front door!



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
Can someone on here who is a freemason please tell me if the pledge altar as described above really exists...?
Because if it does can I lend it next Halloween to keep the nuisance Trick Or Treaters away from my front door!


For "Little Devils (Trick or Treaters)," might I heartily recommend strapping them to a branding table and then gently applying a red hot poker or mains electricity. Make sure that you get their parent's permission first however, after strapping the parent to the "whirling table," of course.



When the Little Devils have grown up and become US army grunts, they will be grateful to you for all the invaluable instruction, and will be able to carry out the operation on Islamic subjects of the imperialistic colonies, who will then be under no doubt that the US military are Capitalist Devils, and will incite further acts of Holy War in retaliation against the Devil, and further increase the share prices of the US arms' manufacturers; so bear in mind all the wonderful work that you will be doing for the US economy and the education of the youth. Further you will be personifying the mantra that "Masonry takes good men and makes them better;" and what "better" an advert for US imperialism than an expert in personal terrorisation and torture?

And don't forget, for extra added diabolicalness, be sure not to use your own money to have a branding and whirling table constructed; be sure "only" to use money raised for children's charities.



For those of you are not really into joining Masonic cults, I would be only too happy to recommend numerous other Gay BDSM (Bondage-Domination-Sado-Masochism, or "Slave-Master) contact sites or a BDSM dungeon where it would be my pleasure to introduce you to a Master who will beat, degrade and humiliate you at rates which compare favourably with Masonic initiation fees. Unfortunately I am "personally" only able to offer this service of humiliating, disgracing, shaming and villifying current members of a Masonic lodge, and I never charge for my services; which is why they love me so much.

I hope this advice is of some assistance to you.

Regards

His Satanic Majesty.
"Diabolus Aeternium"


edit on 3-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: The text was not diabolical enough. I seem not to be in a diabolical enough mood today. Not enough Christian Flesh and Blood to devour.


edit on 3-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: The text was "still" not diabolical enough.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 


You neglect to mention that DeMoulins Bros side degree paraphernalia were used by Woodsmen and Odd Fellows not Freemasons. You would have noticed this fact had you read the commentary on Phoenix Masonry's website. Then again if you had read at that site, you might have noticed that the content is copyright and not for public domain. Perhaps you don't care, but I do as David is a member of my Lodge.

I have never seen any of these devices used in American or European Freemasonry or AASR, as our ceremonials and initiations are solemn and hazing isn't welcome.
edit on 3-3-2011 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-3-2011 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


You neglect to mention that DeMoulins Bros side degree paraphernalia were used by Woodsmen and Odd Fellows not Freemasons. You would have noticed this fact had you read the commentary on Phoenix Masonry's website.


The catalogue does not state or even imply that the side degree paraphernalia was "only" used by the Woodsmen and Odd Fellows; it merely states that members of these two lodges sent in testimonials which were printed in the catalogue, as they had purchased the equipment and were obviously familiar with it's use.



www.phoenixmasonry.org...

"Pay particular attention to the various testimonials at the bottom on some of the below catalog pages. These testimonials were sent in by the Woodmen and Odd Fellow Lodges who purchased this paraphernalia and they described how it worked for them."



The site simply describes the catalogue as for use in "side degrees" of which there appear to be numerous, and since you cannot possibly be a member of all of them, you do not speak for them.

"Many side degrees will thrust an application form your way at the slightest hint of any interest so be prepared for that!" www.thefreemason.com...


Pictured above is the cover of the 1930 edition of the DeMoulin Bros. & Co. catalog titled "Burlesque and Side Degree Specialties, Paraphernalia and Costumes." We believe that this was the best and last "side degree" catalog the DeMoulin Bros.......In the end you'll see that the wholesome fun... "light hazing," endured by the candidates made them feel more apart of the Lodge and fostered Brotherly Love and Affection.



Then again if you had read at that site, you might have noticed that the content is copyright and not for public domain.




Fair use, a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work, is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. en.wikipedia.org...



I have never seen any of these devices used in American or European Freemasonry or AASR, as our ceremonials and initiations are solemn and hazing isn't welcome


The Appeal to Ignorance Argumentum ad ignorantiam


If P were true then I would know it; in fact I do not know it; therefore P cannot be true.
en.wikipedia.org...


I have already dealt with the "appeal to ignorance" argument fallacy made by Masons on a number of occasions on this forum, and this kind of argument can take many forms, however in this case, to restate, it is an argument such as "I have never seen a Catholic priest abuse a child, so therefore no Catholic priest has ever abused a child," which is the same kind of argument repeated here in the form of "I have never seen or heard any of the behaviour of the alleged endemic and institutional corruption in American Masonic organisations, so therefore it cannot have occurred"

This is simply further evidence of the kind of mind controlled "group think" and denialism of Masonic cultists, where they simply suspend human reason when it comes to self analysis and self criticism.

Your own ignorance that alleged events have occurred is not sufficient to establish that they did not occurr. A blind man's ignorance of the sun, does not mean that the sun does not exist. If a murder is reported in China and you did not witness the murder, it does not mean that the murder did not take place.



Since this thread deals with the Shriner and Jester Masons, it has already been established in the articles and testimonials from American Masons that "hazing" occurs in these Lodges, including the application of electric shocks, whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals, caging rituals, and simulating "golden showers (being urinated on with water through a fake rubber penis)," and other such sacred, holy and ancient rites as practiced by the ancient Egyptian priesthood. Holy, Holy; Deo gratias, etc. That you have not witnessed such "hazing" and schoolboy antics of humiliation does not establish that they do not occur, nor does it refute the testimonials in this thread that they do occur.

Lux
"Advocatus diaboli horriblus"

edit on 3-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: The text was not diabolical enough.





____________




Originally posted by raknjak
The point of this thread unveiled:


Originally posted by Lucifer777
Addendum.

I should point out that my criticisms of modern Masonry are intended to show that the popular conspiracy theory whch suggests that the modern "regular" Masons have been infiltrated by the radical philosophical and political inheritors of the 18th century Illuminists is clearly false, and that if such an attempt was made by the Illuminists it appears to have completely failed. Such a conspiracy theory seems to be generally promoted by competing anti-Communist Christian cultists of the "Henry Makow" ilk who are competing for market share in the multi-billion dollar cult religion business.


Orly? This is historical fact and is based on verified historical documents. This infiltration continues to this day, after all it was known then and it is known now that the Masons are very powerful. A dark organization like the Illuminati has no alternative but to go under cover and try to gain power with hidden allies. If you would look into the history of the KGB for example you would find great similarities. The mafia also applies this practice, even the police does this.
Let's be real here. AW was a terrorist "avant la lettre" and an enemy of freedom.


I have a thread on this matter "In Defence of Adam Weishaupt and the Illuminati" on: www.abovetopsecret.com... and I don't wish to go into it here at any length; this thread is about American Masonry and the Jesters and Shriners in particular.

Yes Adam Weishaupt was a terrorist in the same way that George Washington and the Americans who were willing to kill and be killed to remove the tyranny of George III from American soil were terrorists, and I think you will find that I am a terrorist sympathiser also, if Adam Weishaupt, Washington and Jefferson can be defined as terrorists. Nevertheless contemporary Masonry appears to be a conservative and monarchist organisation whose current Grand Master is HRH Elizabeth Windsor's cousin and is about as much of a Jacobean as the Pope is a Muslim. Weishaupt and his organisation were openly opposed to the rule of the aristocracy and indeed ultimately "any" form of government.

As far as Weishaupt being an "enemy of freedom," a slavemaster and a monarchist always define freedom differently to a slave; freedom to a dictator (a monarch) and an economic slavemaster is the freedom to rule and to enslave others; I do not define freedom in monarchist doublespeak.

Rather than just repeating myself, let me restate my position from another thread.


Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by LUXUS
“I have been convinced that we, as an Order, have come under the power of some very evil occult Order, profoundly versed in science, both occult and otherwise, though not infallible, their methods being black magic, that is to say, electromagnetic power, hypnotism, and powerful suggestion. We are convinced that the Order is being controlled by some Sun Order, after the nature of the Illuminati, if not by that Order itself. .....…we must from this moment dissolve the whole Order”
Duke of Brunswick, Grand Master of German Freemasonry, 1794


On Republicanism and Dictatorship.


Since the Duke of Brunswick was, to state the obvious, an aristocrat, one must bear in mind that he is writing in 1794, and that the French Revolution had just occurred a few years prior in 1789, where much of the aristocracy were sent to the guillotine. Further, the American Revolutionary war of 1775-1783 had just taken place against the British dictatorship (monarchy) of King George III.

Apart from the French and the American Republics, the general system of government in that era was that of the dictatorship of the aristocracy. The European aristocracy were terrified of the Jacobins (French Republicans) and feared their loss of their power, and for the loss of their lives, should Republican revolutions sweep through Europe.

Thus when a landed aristocrat in 1794 speaks of the "evil" within Masonry, he is no doubt speaking about the "evil Republicans" who had, in that era, allegedly partly infiltrated Masonry.

In the 21st century, the Christian conspiracy theorists are reviving this view, since the political ideology of Christianity is that of theocratic (God government) monarchy (i.e., the global dictatorship of a genocidal "king of kings," who causes a global apocalyptic war and exterminates all non believers), and thus their vile religion necessitates an evangelical Anti-Republicanism and the return to the primitive barbarism of theocratic dictatorship.

It would be almost impossible for any foreign power to "invade" America, but the conditions appear to be unfolding for the internal destruction of the American Republic and the vile abomination of Christianity appears to be part of this "Trojan Horse."

With regards to "Evil Republicans" infiltrating Freemasonry; Masonry in the UK is an institution of old monied aristocrats, bankers, mercenaries and Capitalists who seem to be mostly monarchists, and who would be more likely to fight to the death for their tyrant to stop Britain ever ecoming a Republic; in fact officers in the Queen's army, the police, the judiciary, the Queen's pariliament and in numerous other government roles are required to swear oaths of allegiance to our current tyrant; further Masonry "is" anyway a Messianic cult in itself, and thus part of the problem.

With regards to the American Freemasons, I think that it is safe to say that a person who joins a cult whose "overt" puppet cult leader is the Duke of Kent (H.R.H. Queen Elizabeth's cousin), who is 28th in succession to the throne of England (i.e., if the other 27 people are killed, he would be king), has already betrayed the American Republic and can mostly be assumed to be loyal to their overt monarchist cult leader and their covert Messianic King, and to be defenders of the economic and military aristocracy to a certain extent.

Further consider my essay "In Defence of Adam Weishaupt and the Illuminati (www.abovetopsecret.com... )," where I argue that the Masonic infiltration of the radical politics of the 18th century Illuminists has been a total failure, and further consider also the fact that many Freemasons appear to agree with this analysis.

Anyway, since the introduction of the Patriot Act, which is the American equivalent of the Nazi's "Enabling Act" and the Reichstag Fire Decree," which grants a US dictator virtually the same powers as Hilter, all it would take is some national emergency, war, the inevitable retaliation by militant Muslims, or some US military false flag to turn America into a military dictatorship under martial law. I suspect that just as in Nazi Germany there will be US Nationalists who will be willing to fight for such a dictatorship, and that there will be those who will militantly oppose it, but many are likely to succumb to propaganda which entwines patriotism and nationalism with military dictatorship .

If the Christian "conspiracy theory" that Masonry has been infiltrated by radical politics of the Illuminist Republicans were true, it would be a good thing, but unfortunately it does not seem to be the case; and if the Christians are complaining about the possibility of the destruction of the American Republic, I don't understand why they are complaining; surely absolute tyranny is what they want? It just goes to establish that a religionist can be comfortable with holding two contradictory views at the same time, and that confusion is considered a virtue to them.

"Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state............. As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now let us show them we can fight like men also." Thomas Jefferson

Unfortunately the American Republicans (and I do not refer to the US political party by the same name, but to a political ideology) are likely to have a fight on their hands, since the armies of tyranny (i.e., the Christians, Freemasons, the US military, etc) are many, and have long been preparing for the imposition of such tyranny; fortunately there are more guns in the US than there are people.

The allegedly diabolical covert Illuminists who allegedly infiltrated Masonry in the 18th century are long dead, but their memory is not forgotten and they have given birth to the armies of the myriads of opponents of economic tyranny around the world, the socialists, the Anarchists, the Neomarxists and assorted Republicans. It may be convenient for the acolytes of the enemy of humankind (i.e., God) to believe that Masonry is a cult of Republicans, anti-monarchists and socialists, but the evidence does not seem to suggest this at all; on the contrary

Lux
"Advocatus diaboli Horriblus"




edit on 2-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: More diabolical

edit on 3-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: even more (supersize) diabolical




Originally posted by raknjak

I read his works and I will post to you an excerpt that I find most intriguing:

"The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always covered by another name, and another occupation. None is better than the three lower degrees of Free Masonry; the public is accustomed to it, expects little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it. Next to this, the form of a learned or literary society is best suited to our purpose, and had Free Masonry not existed, this cover would have been employed; and it may be much more than a cover, it may be a powerful engine in our hands. By establishing reading societies, and subscription libraries, and taking these under our direction, and supplying them through our labours, we may turn the public mind which way we will." - Adam Weishaupt, founder of the Illuminati in John Robison's Proofs of a Conspiracy, 1793.

Bye bye to your theory. A one-sighted view of a predetermined individual? You know, it would be much easier to be objective when you wouldn't have so many presumptions. A little humility once in a while would bring great new insights so I have found out myself (but Crowly doesn't teach that does he).


I doubt that you have read Weishaupt's works; you have probably read John Robison's polemic of Weishaupt were he offers a few alleged quotations from Weishaupt. John Robison was a monarchist and a Christian (who are, by default, all monarchists anyway) so obviously a person such as Weishaupt who opposed the rule of the European aristocracy would be a terrorist, in the same that a Thomas Jefferson would probably be considered a terrorist by a Christian and a monarchist.

As far as Illuminists infiltrating Masonic Lodges; I can assure you that Illuminism is a mass phenomenon with covert and overt agents who adhere to a particular philosophy; we are both a visible and invisble collegiate, and in the visible world we are the Neomarxists, Anarchists, Socialists, Thelemites and lovers of human freedom everywhere; however Illuminism is not an organisation; it is a philosophy; despite their being various Illuminist NRM's (New Religous Movements).

It is my view that Illuminism has been entirely unsuccessful in infltrating Masonry, and that Masonry is a pro-Monarchist, Messianic cult of aristocrats, mercenaries, economic elites, Capitalists, Neo-McCarthyists and the assorted chaff of the Anglo-American state terrorist, narco-terrorist imperialists; and thus anti-thetical to Illuminism in general.

Further the Masons themselves appear to confirm that they do "not" have an Illuminist agenda, by their statements to this effect, by their behaviour, and for many of them by their vocations. If they did have an Illuminist agenda, they would all be Anarchists and Neomarxists; not monarchists and evangelical, militant imperialistic Capitalists, and there would be no need for them to have their own city (the "City of London" a.k.a. the "Square Mile"), with their own laws, their own government, and with hundreds of Masonic Lodges in that Square Mile alone, linked to private financial institutions, as banking would be totally nationalised and out of their control, which I suspect would be their worst nightmare; however such a "nightmare" is part of the Illuminist transitionary agenda (see Marx & Engels "Communist Party Manifesto").

Lux


edit on 3-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Not blasphemous enough



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 05:59 AM
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Lucifer, you should have smiled. It takes a much better picture.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:16 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 08:19 AM
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Did the chick in the picture sit on a birdsnest?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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This guy is like a broken record. Same old crap, same cut and paste. More BS claims, more BS "Sources". He isn't even worth replying to. I'm not going to encourage him anymore.
edit on 5-3-2011 by LightCraft because: afterthought



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by network dude


Lucifer, you should have smiled. It takes a much better picture.


Well darling, because your Masonic bitches like to be abused, humiliated and degraded by other male slaves of His Satanic Majesty, please don't assume that all other males fit into the gay masochistic Masonic archetype, just because you do.

Lux



edit on 5-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Image added



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by no1smootha
 


DeMoulins Bros side degree paraphernalia

Whats that?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


DeMoulin Bros was a supply for the many different Fraternities that flourished in the 20th century. The Odd Fellows, Elks, Woodsmen, Freemasons and others. The catalog included devices for hazing rituals used in some of the Fraternities, as I said I have never seen them used in the Blue Lodge (first three degrees of Masonry) or in Scottish rite through the 32nd. Lucy is correct, I can't speak for York Rite or Shrine because I am not a member of those appendent bodies but have read the ritual of York Rite which made no mention of hazing, being a solemn ritual.

You can read the historic catalog at Phoenixmasonry's Museum.

www.phoenixmasonry.org...




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